That said, good counter-point. I just hope my GameFly copy arrives before my daughter so I can actually play the fucking thing and experience the story for myself.
as if i needed another reason to hate you.
How do you know exactly which party member would be the best for the job, going into uncharted territory? It hints that you should take a tech/biotic for certain parts, but I really enjoyed the "edge of your seat" feel when I had to randomly pick someone I felt could do the job, rather than pick from a "50% survival rate; 25% survival rate" list. I felt responsible for whomever I sent on that particular suicide mission within our suicide mission.
I also think you would have gotten more out of particular character deaths if you cared about them. For instance, in my game, Jack refuses to talk to me because I stood up for Miranda: Jack died a terrible death, and I couldn't care less. I thought that was a fairly neat device.
Your a fool. Just like the tv show your from.
Also Anthony, i am moving towards the final encounter on the game as well. However, do you feel as though ME3 will play differently if you dont make the correct choices at the end of this. It appears as though the major point is IF shepard dies. Other than that, just like from ME1, I think the game will give you a new crew or just wash over the lack of the other characters. I mean I saved Wrex, and hes not even playable. Now, if thats something that is available in ME3, than i'm wrong. But really except for 2 moments right now, I've never felt like what I did in the first game had some kind of major impact on the second.
Same with Samara, she's a support class. Adepts are there to crowd control and get heat off your back. She is not a leader, far from it. Hell she can't even control her own child. Samara was not a good choice to take head of the second fire team.
Were you eclipsed by your love for the characters to put them in such situations or it was blatant human error?
I mean , if you wanted to keep everyone alive why in the hell did you sent an assassin instead of a tech savvy party member like the game was hinting you on doing so. Same applies for the leader. (Assuming you did that of course)
So on one hand, I see your point, it could have gone further. But...I also understand that developers are probably afraid of punching the player in the gut too many times, because they do not believe the player is made of anything serious, and will go play Explosions and Miniskirts Run Around 5 instead of their serious game.
I don't know how this reflects on me as a commander. I picked the people I trusted the most to get the job done based on their talents, personality and history with me. Apparently the game thinks I make shitty choices and has some better option in mind. I don't buy it. The first death seems totally random and unrelated to the task I gave her (which she carried out problem free), and the second death also felt weird (maybe a little less) since I have no idea who would be better to lead a combat diversion. It felt like no matter what I did, I was bound to lose at least some people.
I'm actually fine with this. The whole game is about building up to this suicide mission, a confrontation no-one expects you to survive let alone emerge victorious. Maybe thats the point, that no matter how prepared you are and what kind of choices you make (even right ones) there is no way to avoid death and loss in war.
This message only works if the player is willing to exercise some self control however. If you are the type who will reload and choose different squadies until you find the "right" one for each situation who will survive, or if you go back and choose some sacraficial lambs you didn't much care for to take the bullet ("I know I bickered with Jack the whole time she was on my ship, lied to her, bullied her into compliance, and did everything I could to encourage her violent tendacies, but yeah she can totally lead the fire team!") it becomes inauthentic and the message losses all its power. I went in thinking "whatever happens, happens" and even with that attitude I couldn't resist replaying it at least once to see if I could save my buddy. I don't know if there is a solution to the players meta-gamer leanings Bioware could have come up with, but it would have been worth looking into.
You got them killed because you ill-prepared your team.
Don't blame game mechanics for that.
I sent Grunt back with the cremates I rescued, and I chose Zaeed to run my second team both times. When it came to the Force Bubble, I chose Samara(sp?); coulda swore -she- was dead, but she survived.
In the end I had three caskets. Zaeed, and Legion. Ones I could be comfortable with. However, when they were showing the sweeping view of the destruction I had caused before the explosion, there was Mordin's body. I was crushed. I to this day do not know what I did to cause that. I took him on missions, he was loyal, and had great gear. I never wanted this. The other two were -acceptable- losses.
Also, with the having to get paragon points to regain the loyalty of the crew, I was actually quite worried that I worried be able to do it in the last mission I had left to do before going through the relay, so to an extent it was well done, but it could have been better.
When the collectors take your crew, I had no idea what was happening because I just went to a planet to buy some stuff and all of a sudden everything went to hell before I knew it, which kind of portrays how it would really have felt like.
They tried a lot of things, and I feel that they only worked if you were in the right mind-set, but otherwise it would have fallen a little flat.
I used Legion (like you said I was fearful for some characters dying so I used him instead of Tali)
Miranda (She hints at being squad leader, after you reject her biotic and tech attempts) also it's kinda obvious since she's a Cerberus leader.
2nd squad leader: Miranda
Biotics: Samara (I have no idea how your Samara died)
And well, the escort was Jacob (I believe anyone loyal works there.
I'd like to know what team you picked Mr.Burch.
Somewhere in there, there shoudl be some sort of feedback to demystify your team choices, I figure. To hear you and Aaron talk about it on Podtoid.
Also, half the dudes in Seven Samurai died for no damn reason. Knowing I'm honestly able to save everybody kind of takes away from the impact a random-ass death can/should have... which I think you're saying, actually...
A better implementation would be if your tactics during the final battle affected the survival of the crew. I mean, there could have been multiple ways to beat the boss, with the player's own choice in gameplay (taking the easier route versus the challenging one) affecting if anyone dies. Combine that with the loyalty system, (e.g., Thane suggests an easier strategy, but since you didn't complete his loyalty mission, the Collectors mentally distract him while he implements it, resulting in his death) and it would be harder for the player to predict which actions would give them the "ideal" ending.
Either way though, I personally love ME2 with all of my heart and I simply cannot wait for the third game.
No, my problem is that they kept saying during the lead up to the release, "Shepard could die permanently".
Imagine you beat the last level and watch the final cutscene in which your character died. Imagine the shock you would have felt and imagine your response to hearing your friend, who also beat the game, talking about how their character lived through the ending. Then imagine realizing that BioWare designed the game to monitor your actions and determine if Shepard would live through your game.
It's just that BioWare lost an amazing opportunity to completely shock the player because while watching an NPC you really liked die, it doesn't compare to watching your own character die for good and wondering how this would work with Mass Effect 3.
The greatest strength of Mass Effect 2 over Mass Effect was that it's choices weren't as obvious as the first one. It's much less of a, "this crew member or this crew member get to live," kind of game. The relationships are meaningful AND their development is directly linked to your crew's survival. In that way, the simple decisions become tough decisions, but perhaps that's only in looking back at them.
I spent a lot of time doing everything I could to ensure my crews survival, and every damn step of that final level I felt fucking on EDGE. At one point it looked like someone was shot and I almost turned the 360 off. I cared about my crew and the game rewarded me for my effort. It didn't punish me to make some trite statement about sacrifice. It made me feel important.
You know I kid.
You really should post some freaking spoiler warnings for this, though, especially that first sentence. I thought this was just going to be a counter-review, not ruining many key points of the Mass Effect 2 plot. Come on, Anthony, don't ruin the game for us who have to go to work and school instead of playing the game all day.
I feel (as some others do) that you made incorrect decisions about the special teams, but more playthroughs are required to know for sure whether that even matters. It might not. The only character I lost was Legion, who I sent into the vent system without my loyalty. I just really didn't want to lose Tali and she was my only other 'correct' option for the job. Didn't want to lose Legion either, but hey that's the choice. Garrus was the only one that made sense to me for the fire team. He's lead, and lost a squad; Garrus is completely qualified, and based on the regret from losing the old squad he would make sure to keep this one intact. Again, I don't really know if those are the life or death choices, having only finished once. Even if they were correct, they were not moral choices but mechanical ones.
Unfortunately, this was the best chance for Bioware to make death matter. You'll be dealing with the loss for the entire next game, coloring the entire mood of the experience. People that die in ME3 will only be a footnote in an epilogue, which I expect will have much less resonance.
Aside from that you make an interesting point. Though I haven't played the game, so, I dunno, you could be dead right or talking out of your ass for all I know.
At least put some big spoiler warnings. Even if you know "theoretically, my team can die," that doesn't mean you wouldn't be mad to hear that two characters died for lame reasons (or what you perceive to be lame reasons).
I agree completely with your point that the character relationships you've built ultimately take a back seat to grinding that you've done and a few good guesses. I found it disappointing after all the promotional material emphasizing loyalty as the key ingredient in survival.
I guess for me the word "loyalty" was the misleading part. I expected loyal characters might do something heroic in the events of the ending that determine whether the team lives or dies, or disloyal character might just say "eph this" and leave themselves or others to die. That's what I was hoping for. Instead, loyalty just determines whether or not someone gets randomly shot. To me, that isn't really what loyalty is about.
I'd also thought (hoped) that conversations that you'd had throughout the game would have some bearing on the choices the characters make at the end. Some of the squad mates (Mordin for example) have tough ethical choices to confront, and you (seemingly) can steer their thinking. But it turns out in the end none of that matters either. It would have been nice to see a paragon-influenced jack save Miranda from a collector or something like that.
I enjoyed the game, but I didn't feel that the suicide mission and all the pre-release loyalty hype delivered. The ending felt rushed, and like a bit of a cop out.
I played the ending one and a half times in the first weekend. I'm accepting the deaths of my first playthrough, but I wanted to try again just to see if anything changed.
First playthrough:
-Vent: Thane. The way the whole vent situation is discussed, it sounded (to me) far less like "pick someone who is really great at tech" and more like "someone will be sneaking through vents and opening a door at the very end of that sneaking bit," implying that vent survival was more important than their ability to fuse wires together.
-First fireteam: Samara. I was torn between choosing her or Garrus, but as Garrus had already lost a team I didn't feel that reflected too well on his survival skills (Miranda didn't seem like a great option because since Jack wasn't in my squad, it meant the two of them would be fighting the entire time; Jacob was an extension of the Cerberus shit that angered Jack, so I didn't want to risk him either). The pre-choice dialogue specifically asks you to choose someone with EXPERIENCE, Samara's summary profile thing in the choice menu speaks highly of her EXPERIENCE, and after you choose her, Miranda congratulates you for choosing someone with so much EXPERIENCE. And she lives.
-Second fireteam: Samara. Since she did perfectly well in the first fireteam, I saw absolutely no reason not to use her the second time; there was no effective difference between the actual missions of the first and second diversionary fireteams, so it was a surprise to have the previously-capable Samara suddenly complain that her team was taking heavy fire, eventually culminating in her getting shot through a closing door.
-Biotic escort: Jack. She was loyal, and by far the most powerful biotic around (just in terms of what the story says).
-Escorting survivors: Jacob. I was beginning to get worried the game was just going to kill whomever I picked for any given job, and I didn't really care about Jacob (though I did respect his battle experience and trusted him to, at the very least, get Kelly and Chakwas back to the Normandy).
Second playthrough:
-First fireteam: Samara. She worked out fine the first time -- saw no reason not to choose her again.
-Vent: Tali. Since every walkthrough and forum post I saw mentioned it was more important to sent a techie than anything else, I chose Tali.
Tali died in the exact same way Thane did: closing a door, putting her head out too far.
Many of you are arguing that by killing Thane and Samara, the game is telling me that I don't know my crew very well. If that's so, then one would assume that on a second playthrough, Tali shouldn't die under the exact same circumstances.
If the game is trying to say that I shouldn't have picked Samara for the first fireteam or something, it should have connected that specific choice to the vent soldier's death in some way. If it's saying I shouldn't have picked her for the second fireteam, then the circumstances surrounding that second fireteam mission should have seemed drastically different from the first; she did perfectly well on the first mission, so why wouldn't I choose her for the second?
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If you have the wrong person in the wrong slot, That Wrong Person can get the Right Person in the Right Slot elsewhere killed. May not make perfect sense, but that's how Bioware have programmed the game.
Samara is a loner, She's not a leader. That has a butterfly effect. I've read that if the leader of the second team is wrong, (ie Samara) the Door person gets it, (ie Tali)
You said you didn't have faith in Garrus? Garrus was stabbed in the back, his poor leadership didn't lose the team. Samara explicitly says that she's been alone for 400 years. She's not a good team leader.
Thane should be able to do the Vent Crawling, but he's a no-hoper when it comes to Tech stuff.
Mordin seems to be susceptible to dying irregardless, even if you follow someone else's successful route to the letter.
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Spoilers
Thanks.
i didnt lose anyone else though cus i guess i evaluated there strength/weaknesses well
fuck tali
Put a leader in the slot you have Samara in, i.e. Garrus, and the cinematic changes. Garrus' team will make it in clean, and Tali will get the second team in clean as well.
I had the same problem, I used Tali in the vent and Zaeed as team leader. Tali died. Then I switched to Legion, thinking he's good at tech as well, but still used Zaeed. Legion gets it in the face. I was pissed at this point, because I wanted to get the team through safe, so I switched to Garrus as team leader, and put Tali back on tech, everyone made it. Having the right person in one spot and the wrong person in another will get the right person killed. Just like real life, right? All choices have to line up in war, or good people get good and dead.

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