I still don't understand the difference between the used game market and the used dvd market.

Also, lol @ the header.

I'm sure it does hurt their bottom line. But the game industry isn't special. Other markets have to deal with used products to varying degrees, and so do you guys. It might suck from the devs and publishers POV, but that's reality.

Well as recent news would prove, I think I plan to buy Mortal Kombat used because they are willing to give retail exclusive costume and fatalities to different stores and if they didnt release them as a day 1 dlc package that would mean you would have to buy the game 3 separate times to obtain the extras that are on disc to begin with. The more DLC they promise while developing the game, the more I promise to buy used which goes for any game.I know it isnt always the devs choice but the publishers love to milk everything so much. Also word words words words

I don't hear the DVD market complaining about used DVD sales.

@timtheterrible

The DVD market has a much larger consumer base and has our equivalent of "casual gamers." Most customers don't read dvd reviews, they just buy what looks good. They also don't go looking for good deals, they just buy whatever they see at walmart. Therefore even bad dvds have a chance to make money. There's also the fact that movies can usually make up for their development cost in theaters and the dvds are only pure profit. The gaming market is smaller and much snobbier about spending their money.

Really? Well. The industry's high prices are causing my wallet pain, so I guess that makes us even.

Nice try turning this into socialism @mattrodroid but being able to resell and buy used is a fundamental element of capitalism. This is about Ownership rights very much so, and the person who originally bought the game gets to decide where it goes.

@mattrodroid
lol. well, that was random.

Yup. If I don't own the games I buy then guess what? I'm not gonna bbuy very many games. If publishers want to create an environment where people who would normally buy a lot fo games find other stuff to do then GREAT! Let's do this. It will be educational for at least ONE of us. And BTW all this WA WA WA we are going to die stuff...who cares? I don't really care if gaming dies because the industry is founded on a stupid set of assumptions about its specialness. Game publihsers don't care if I die. This is a business not a family. We are not really obligated to care about one another.

Thier problem is that they think that without pre-owned, everyone will buy thier games new. But they need to realise that people will just stop buying as many games if that happens

@llort het:

That's not true at all. Don't forget that people like us, that are so invested in gaming that we're willing to sign up and post on a blog, are the vocal minority. The majority of the people who by games don't research jack. They buy what their friends buy, and go by word of mouth. Walmart also sells more video games than any other retail chain in the country.

Oi, I take offense to that picture. The violin is a beautiful instrument, as I have played it all my life.

I really don't have any pity for them, they really should drop the issue...
As i stated on my blog we should ignore gamestop as well...

If videogaming wasn't such a damn expensive hobby, people would be willing to take a chance on a game that's not a big name. As it stands, there's no point in paying $60 for something you *might* like.

@SephirothX
That's basically becuase they said if they wanna buy used fuck em. The dvd Isle at my best buy (and most best buys) is a shell of its former self, they all signed deals with netflix and the like and are collecting royalties from them.

Thing is video games don't really have an alternative, except you know cutting content and charging for it as DLC ( hooray 14$ map packs that used to be free) and basically cutting corners and turning a great game into a good one.

Its a vicious circle, And while I would like a cheaper alternative the fact is every time somebody buys the game used and a third party gets the cash without the publisher seeing a cut well............ Let's just say. I hope. No one was to offended by EA online pass, I think were gonna be seeing a lot more of it in the future.

I hope soon we find some way to meet down the middle were everyones happy, because I'm not liking the way this road is going.

Then just sell launch titles for $50 on xbox live or psn at midnight day of release. Id buy more games if they did that

Maybe Codemasters can do a Deadly Premonition and start releasing all of their new games at a £20 price point. I don't see why games should cost 4x the price of DVD's in the first place. The movie industry may make cash on theatrical releases where gaming has no equivalent, but the costs cant be that big a difference.

I think the main difference (maybe just for me) between games and dvd's being sold used is that the dvd's usually are released after a movie has been in the theater and makes money there. Granted, not all dvd releases get released in theaters and some are not released on a wide scale.

"waah waah. we want our industry to be different than EVERY other industry out there." because we all know how the downfall of the american car was caused by the used car industry. And how the downfall of the music industry was caused by used CD sales. And the downfall of... wait...

Stop putting out shit games for $60, Codemasters.

So when is that disaster Bodycount being released, Codies?

Guys?

Make games worth buying new for $59.99, or lower your prices. Some games are worth that. Some are worth $39.99. Some are only worth $29.99 or even $19.99. Price your games according to that.

Kisses,
-meteorscrap

I'll just keep on searching for the best deal on the games I buy.

stupid idiot gamers will start labeling any game that is not released at 60 dollars as a "budget game" and not worth playing.

@amtalx

Yeah I guess that I'm underestimating word of mouth, but with gamers, word of mouth pretty much doesn't go beyond Halo, call of duty, Madden, *insert spike VGA awards here.* I don't think word of mouth could ever sell Majin and the forsaken kingdom, which probably could have been more profitable as a dreamworks movie or something.

My father owns/runs his own business. In this business, it is common to buy used machinery since a new custom CNC mill or high-end shape moulder can cost in excess of 80 thousand dollars. Never once have I heard one of these companies bitch or moan about one guy buying their machine new, and then passing it on to the other guy for half price... so that they can then reinvest that money IN NEW FUCKING MACHINERY, aka buying back INTO the system and creating further investment in the original manufacturer. Bunch of fucking clowns in the videogame industry. Example, he just purchased a 35k CNC mill for 10k from the original owner... who just bought a 75k CNC mill from the original company. Or better yet- make a game that is good enough that I don't plan on ever selling the fucking thing. I don't plan on selling No More Heroes 1 or 2. I don't plan on selling Battlefield Bad Company 2. I don't plan on selling Dead Space. Games that I continue to come back to, regardless of Multiplayer content, because they kick ass and stand out as good products will not enter the used market. Besides- and I hate to be a troll- but its mostly the "poor" gamer who buys used. If you want something the moment it comes out, you go and buy the fucking thing and pony up the cash. That's life. End rant

@ mattrobroid

Wow screw you troll. Some of us taking in a government check got hurt in the Iraqi war. I'd like to see you try to get a job after getting hit with a car bomb. Yeah I'm against wellfair mommas and people draining unemployment when they could at least work a horrible job somewhere. Lets not generalize those government check statements shall we.

@meteorscrap
That's exactly what publishers should do. Too bad they're too obsessed with milking gamers dry to change their pricing scheme.

If the publishers want to make money off used games they should open their own retail outlets. Are you telling me Activision couldn't afford to buy Gamestop?

You know, from now on, whenever a developer or publisher bitches about the used game market, I'm going to make it a point to buy their games used, assuming they have games worth buying. I've noticed that it's usually the developers of mediocre games that like to bitch and moan about this. Why don't they try making better games instead of blaming capitalism for their woes? What the fuck does Codemasters even make?

[checks]

Wow, really?! Those fuckers should be glad people even BOTHER buying their games.

what a goddam crybaby. boo fucking hoo, cry me a river all the way to the bank you greedy asshole.

i suppose that very same greedy asshat will buy his child a used car when they turn 16.

ya know what? fuck em, i hope they go bankrupt.

this industry has no special laws or regulations banning used game sales, the used car market can sell used cars and the big car companies don't moan and bitch about lost profits, i wonder why?

Activision looks to be hurting something fierce with this 'pre-owned' market.

Build a great game and they will come. I don't care for codemasters current lineup. Seems like rehashed shit....oh wait, wasn't codemasters originally making games for that company that went around nintendo's lock-out chip...producing unlicensed nintendo games? Fucking hypocrites.

When was the last time codemasters did anything relevant ?
Seriously you don't get to complain if you don't even rank in with the vertebrates in the food chain.

If Codemasters was a singular entity and struck up a conversation with me. My first instinct is to ask them who they are and why the hell they are talking to me.

It does sadden me to say that because I'm looking forward to Jumpgate .... but then again I recall hearing something about them starting a lawsuit against the publisher? So if they drop that its back to relevance.

lol and by publisher I mean developer but yeah the rest stands.

@qraze
That's probably because our car markets went out of business, hell the only reason there still around is because our government bailed them out.

That was a really bad example for the used argument.

Good thing you can't buy books, cars, electronics, or anything on E-Bay, otherwise those industries would collapse and cause economic strife as opposed to continued investment in the market.

@ Black Nexus

The used car business never went broke. I think cars/games is a fine example of how new and used (cough cough pre-owned) products can co-exist.

fucking exactly. and the pic couldn't have been better

I mostly buy used simply because I can't afford the full price, maybe if they lowered their damn prices! There is no way I could pay $60 a pop if I ever wanted to play more than one game

@Starrynight yup. I bought Fable 3 for my brother at full retail because that was the first game he'd wanted in a long while. Apart from that, I haven't paid full retail for a video game in a very long time. I rarely spend more than $40 on a new game because that's the price point that makes sense for me. I picked up PS3 NBA Jam at about $30 because that was the best deal I could find when it came out. My game collection in the past year has gotten nicely sized because I discovered by paying less than retail and waiting for games to drop in price I could get good games much more cheaply and actually fit them into my budget.

I understand wanting to make a buck. I understand that there are significant development costs in a number of games, but I also know that as a 20-something working full time and trying to go to school that I don't have a lot of spare money to put into new games. I can get 3 games from the last year for less than one of those games brand new and it's stupid to expect me as a reasonably savvy consumer not to. Are there games I'll pay full price for? Yes, Uncharted 3, Half-Life 3, (maybe) Resistance 3 are all good examples of that. And I'll also pay for a good collector's edition, Killzone 3 (wow there are a lot of #3's coming out soon...), Bioshock 2, Little Big Planet 2 that I'm also willing to put forth some extra cash because they're awesome, but I may still wait for them to drop in price because I have to pay rent, and bills, and tuition , and books, and food, and gas, and maintenance, and sometimes even take my girlfriend out so she stays happy and will play Little Big Planet with me.

TL:DR = I buy used because it makes sense. I will continue to do so because I can't afford to pay retail at current MSRP. If you're game is legitimately worth $60 then I might pay that, but frankly most of the stuff out is worth maybe $40. Price it right and I'll buy, til then say goodbye to the inside of my wallet.

Imagine this: People buying your game pre-owned, buying the sequel new. You've just earned a customer! I lent my uncharted 1 to a friend, even worse than buying second hand, as no new credit was made towards another game. He bought UC2 for himself even though he knew I lend him games when I finish. He is currently psyched for UC3! I assure you, he wouldn't even have bought Uncharted if I didn't give him the game.

"At the same time, they'll be hacking and slashing prices because of the price war"

I love that part of his reasoning that used game sales are bad is that they'll lead to lower prices for the consumer.

Somehow, I get the impression that the industry will survive in the face of used game sales, seeing as it has been doing so since the beginning.

The whole "new vs. used" argument is very closely mirroring the "boxed vs. digital downloads" tussle.

Only a few weeks ago some UK retailers (and probably American too) were saying how displeased they were over the prominence of digital downloads becoming more prevalent, and threatening a tizzy fit over any game which bundled Steamworks into it since this competed against them directly:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/41746/Retail-threatens-Steam-ban

At the time I even wrote about it here:

http://thegaffadin.blogspot.com/2010/11/foggy-future.html

You've also got the publishers railing against used game sales in much the same way.

This is nothing other than protectionism. The companies have their established cash cows and want nothing other than to be left alone to milk them in isolation, with no regulation, no competition and no scrutiny of their affairs.

I'm afraid the real world doesn't work that way. We don't live in a vacuum and there will always be progress. The consumer's take on new games costing $60? The used market.

A developer's take on frustration with traditional publishers and the dominance of the boxed market? Steam, and others like it.

You either change to move with the times or you fail. Next year or in 20 years makes no difference, it will happen. Ask Apple how they have come to dominate the tech sector (hint: it wasn't by standing still).

No, it's not causing the industry pain. These people act like it's the end of gaming, but if used games hurt the industry that much, we wouldn't have any more companies making games at all.

Maybe if game publishers and developers would have better support for the games they make instead of just trying to push a sequil down our throats every year they might see a better turn over on their profits

I just use Gamefly, fuck em all.

@Black Nexus
Used car/salvage business is necessary for the parts/body repair business. If by bailing out the used car business you meant the 'cash for clunkers' program...then that is probably not a very good example. Cash for clunkers really hurt the used car business as a lot of very drivable cars got destroyed to boost new car sales. Its like buying into trickle down economics and removing the bottom two tiers.

Much can be said for the gaming industry; by segmenting the market into a premium sales environment and excluding pricing appropriate for users who depend on trading/used games...you're not allowing a demographic to experience your work, therefore negating an entire segment from future sales of a franchise or developer that they could have enjoyed past the release date and a discounted price. How many of us have utilized used games via gamestop or rented games from gamefly or blockbuster to sample before buying only to fall in love with the franchise/developer and become a loyal follower.

I personally buy NCAA Football every year (at midnight upon release now) due to a used game purchase back in 1998 or 99. These guys need to get their head out of their ass and allow the market to flow.

Dear Codemasters:

STFU.

I work in agame store and bought bfbc2 and nfs hot persuit pre owned. Neither ea code had been activated.
I buy games I'm really after day 1. But now that after a week there's games getting traded in I just wait for that.

stop making shitty games and expecting $60 for it. /end discussion