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He has a fair point i think.
Of the top of my head i cant think of more than 5 competative japanese multiplayer games... Which is totaly ok becuse we have plenty of that already, but it would be intresting in seeing a fresh take of it (which is something sadly developers world wide are bad at)
Of the top of my head i cant think of more than 5 competative japanese multiplayer games... Which is totaly ok becuse we have plenty of that already, but it would be intresting in seeing a fresh take of it (which is something sadly developers world wide are bad at)
I never played Vanquish outside of the demo but I can agree that multiplayer Vanquish would have been fuckin insane!
Totally agree with you Chris. If you want to play multiplayer there are hundreds of games you can choose from. There is no need to push a multiplayer for every game.
He loves japanese games and even says alot of those titles are better than what the west can do its just they dont have multiplayer
i disagree
you dont need multiplayer
i disagree
you dont need multiplayer
I think Vanquish would have been amazing with MP. I was pretty pissed it was so damn short, cause its so damn fun.
I don't know about Shadows of the Damned, but Vanquish would have benefited a great deal from at the very least some co-op.
What a nonsense article. I love to bash Cliffy-B as much as anyone else, lord knows, he makes more than his fair share of silly statements but this article along with the headline, especially the headline, is trying to make something out of nothing.
I mean I'd love to play some co-op Skyrim. Wait. What?!
You hear that Destructoid!?! I WANT EVERY AMERICAN RPG GAME TO SHOEHORN MULTIPLAYER!!1111!!!
I mean I'd love to play some co-op Skyrim. Wait. What?!
You hear that Destructoid!?! I WANT EVERY AMERICAN RPG GAME TO SHOEHORN MULTIPLAYER!!1111!!!
Binary Domain was a great Japanese third person shooter, it had shoehorned multiplayer and I never touched it, after shooting out the back of a speeding truck while being chased by a three story tall transforming robot monstertruck bike going back to shooting other people is just boring.
Vanquish’s main mechanic was slowing down time, that wouldn’t work in multiplayer, it would just be a mess. I’m not sure Cliffy is a developer anymore, if you play Shadows of the Damned and think “Hurr, this needs multiplayer” then you’re a shitty executive.
Vanquish’s main mechanic was slowing down time, that wouldn’t work in multiplayer, it would just be a mess. I’m not sure Cliffy is a developer anymore, if you play Shadows of the Damned and think “Hurr, this needs multiplayer” then you’re a shitty executive.
It can be done right sometimes, but it usually isn't. Besides, when publishers decide to tack on a multiplayer mode, it's usually so they can justify putting an online pass into the game, which makes the notion even more reprehensible. This is why I most likely won't get the new God of War game that's been announced.
@Handy
"Vanquish’s main mechanic was slowing down time, that wouldn’t work in multiplayer"
Max Payne 3 says hi!
"Vanquish’s main mechanic was slowing down time, that wouldn’t work in multiplayer"
Max Payne 3 says hi!
First thing: I thought kids stopped doing the lighter and aerosol when peoples hands started catching alight.
I totally agree especially with Vanquish, but I don't think its just Japanese devs, games like Bulletstorm that Cliffy was closely linked with could have done with VS multiplayer. It wouldn't be balanced but it'd be hilarious and keep people playing it.
I totally agree especially with Vanquish, but I don't think its just Japanese devs, games like Bulletstorm that Cliffy was closely linked with could have done with VS multiplayer. It wouldn't be balanced but it'd be hilarious and keep people playing it.
Really that's what you took from his comments? Not the part where he praised dark souls innovative multiplayer, or where he didn't say more games would be better off but said that designers needed to stop ignoring multiplayer and then mentioned vanquish and shadows of the damned as two games he enjoyed that critical more than commercial successes that could of gained a wider audience with multiplayer. Or maybe the part where he described vanquish as 'an amazing product' not as a travesty. Did you actually read the interview with him or just Chinese whisper this 'article' from another sites article about the interview?
Yo, fucking this is wack as all shit baby dollar, up the sand what the FUCK shit me this article is compuhletely dif-ere-nt!
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/05/12/how-would-gears-of-wars-bleszinski-design-resident-evil-and-fatal-frame/
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/05/12/how-would-gears-of-wars-bleszinski-design-resident-evil-and-fatal-frame/
hell yeah Vanquish, Binary Domain are one of the best TPS this generation.
although Vanquish Multiplayer would be sweet, i don't think it's necessary at all.
as for Binary Domain Multiplayer. there were somethings that needed fixing like the slow 180 degree turn, when healing yourself after being down it takes about 3-5 seconds to get up which the enemy can fucking kill you instantly(why not make it 1 second just for multiplayer, but not single player)
weapons should not be based on currency(it would be good if it has a separate mode, but not a main one)
power weapons like the rocket launcher, and other proper grenade weapons should be procurement on site.
Binary Domain has a potential to have a tight and awesome MP. though i enjoyed the single player more to be honest.
can't wait to play Shadows of the Damned in the summer(i know im late)
although Vanquish Multiplayer would be sweet, i don't think it's necessary at all.
as for Binary Domain Multiplayer. there were somethings that needed fixing like the slow 180 degree turn, when healing yourself after being down it takes about 3-5 seconds to get up which the enemy can fucking kill you instantly(why not make it 1 second just for multiplayer, but not single player)
weapons should not be based on currency(it would be good if it has a separate mode, but not a main one)
power weapons like the rocket launcher, and other proper grenade weapons should be procurement on site.
Binary Domain has a potential to have a tight and awesome MP. though i enjoyed the single player more to be honest.
can't wait to play Shadows of the Damned in the summer(i know im late)
Cliffy needs to fix his shitty netcode in the Gears series before telling anyone they need to add multiplayer.
@Fear No Darkness
Bioshock 2's multiplayer was awesome at first (I liked the way they tied it to singleplayer), but the allure quickly wore off, and for me, became bland very fast.
Dead Space 2...I just couldn't even enjoy from the get-go.
Bioshock 2's multiplayer was awesome at first (I liked the way they tied it to singleplayer), but the allure quickly wore off, and for me, became bland very fast.
Dead Space 2...I just couldn't even enjoy from the get-go.
I think Vanquish MP would have been fantastic.
But yeah, like cynicalmonkey said, Cliffy B. said some really complimentary stuff in the full interview. Let's not use this as an opportunity to pile on the guy.
But yeah, like cynicalmonkey said, Cliffy B. said some really complimentary stuff in the full interview. Let's not use this as an opportunity to pile on the guy.
After reading the actual link, I have no problems with what he said. And I am primarily a fan of single player games. Citing Demon/Dark Souls as an example for the kind of things he thinks you can do with multiplayer doesn't sound like to me he's saying you should shoehorn it in every game, sounds like to me he's saying it could have worked for these games if they tried it in more innovative ways.
To clarify, he says, "I'm not saying tack multiplayer onto every game". At the same time however, it seems to me that when he says "not for every game" he basically means "every shooter".
This, this right here, is the kind of thing I remember just when I think it might be worth taking this website at all seriously. Way to ram a load of horseshit into his guys mouth and then criticise him for it.
And oh look, people are joining the chorus of giving the guy crap for things he didn't say.
I agree with him, given how crazy Vanquish was to play, some MP action in there would've hit the spot, especially since the game was tiny as fuck.
This, this right here, is the kind of thing I remember just when I think it might be worth taking this website at all seriously. Way to ram a load of horseshit into his guys mouth and then criticise him for it.
And oh look, people are joining the chorus of giving the guy crap for things he didn't say.
I agree with him, given how crazy Vanquish was to play, some MP action in there would've hit the spot, especially since the game was tiny as fuck.
Re; Vanquish being better:
"I've often said on record that if Gears is the kind of Wild, Wild West coal train chugging along, that Vanquish is the Japanese bullet train, with style and everything."
Cliff agrees with you!
This article is stupidly negative about a pretty positive look at Japanese games by a fairly big name in the Western side of the industry. He isn't "calling them out", you brush off his note that multiplayer doesn't fit every game, and you portray his comments as negative and attacking the Japanese side of the industry when they aren't.
Gaming journalism, eh?
"I've often said on record that if Gears is the kind of Wild, Wild West coal train chugging along, that Vanquish is the Japanese bullet train, with style and everything."
Cliff agrees with you!
This article is stupidly negative about a pretty positive look at Japanese games by a fairly big name in the Western side of the industry. He isn't "calling them out", you brush off his note that multiplayer doesn't fit every game, and you portray his comments as negative and attacking the Japanese side of the industry when they aren't.
Gaming journalism, eh?
Sadly, from all the review I've read of Dragon's Dogma...he may have a point. Almost every review is like "minus points for no co-op"
I love a good SP, so this line of thinking sucks but he's honestly not too far off with how a lot of the western world seems to judge these games.
I love a good SP, so this line of thinking sucks but he's honestly not too far off with how a lot of the western world seems to judge these games.
I think CliffyB is a giant douchebag and I completely agree with him. I've never even heard of Vanquish or Shadows of the Damned aside from vague posts on Dtoid. Maybe if they had multiplayer, more players and potential customers like me would have actually paid attention.
"On the flip-side, one could cite existing shooters that have abysmal tacked-on multiplayer like Bioshock 2 and Dead Space 2 as reasons against the prospect."
Oh Chris. I like you, so I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that. Dead Space 2 and Bioshock 2 had AMAZING multiplayer. In fact, I played nothing but multiplayer of Bioshock 2 because 30 minutes into the singleplayer and I was bored to tears(I enjoyed the first). And even though Dead Space 2's multiplayer was a watered-down Left 4 Dead, it was still fun.
Hell, I'm only about 40% into Mass Effect 3 because I'd rather play multiplayer than "finish the fight" and I absolutely loved the first game(and moderately enjoyed the second).
BUT I GUESS SINCE YOU HATED THEM, AND UR DTOID STAFF, U SPEEK 4 ERRONE. TROLOLOL--Sorry, I kinda blacked out there for a second.
"On the flip-side, one could cite existing shooters that have abysmal tacked-on multiplayer like Bioshock 2 and Dead Space 2 as reasons against the prospect."
Oh Chris. I like you, so I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that. Dead Space 2 and Bioshock 2 had AMAZING multiplayer. In fact, I played nothing but multiplayer of Bioshock 2 because 30 minutes into the singleplayer and I was bored to tears(I enjoyed the first). And even though Dead Space 2's multiplayer was a watered-down Left 4 Dead, it was still fun.
Hell, I'm only about 40% into Mass Effect 3 because I'd rather play multiplayer than "finish the fight" and I absolutely loved the first game(and moderately enjoyed the second).
BUT I GUESS SINCE YOU HATED THEM, AND UR DTOID STAFF, U SPEEK 4 ERRONE. TROLOLOL--Sorry, I kinda blacked out there for a second.
I prefer single player games, so I'm definitely bias here. As long as the single player story doesn't suffer for the obligatory multiplayer mode, shoehorned multiplayer doesn't bother me. It just seems to me that something is likely to suffer since at the very least financial resources have to be diverted to develop the multiplayer mode.
I wouldn't mind more co-op modes, though, since that can be kind of fun when done right, but a well done single player game is what I prefer.
I wouldn't mind more co-op modes, though, since that can be kind of fun when done right, but a well done single player game is what I prefer.
For a guy who has worked in the industry as long as he has, you'd think he'd realize t hat if they put multiplayer into the game the single player would suffer. They only have so much budget to go around, and when a game is relatively "niche" in its market (E.G. not a dudebro game like CB has become known for.) getting the sort of funding that would allow for a good multiplayer AND allow the vision of the creator's original idea to show through in single player is going to be much more difficult.
I'd much rather have an extremely polished singleplayer game with unique ideas than a half polished single and multiplayer game that rehashes ideas (E.G. Gears 2 and 3)
I'd much rather have an extremely polished singleplayer game with unique ideas than a half polished single and multiplayer game that rehashes ideas (E.G. Gears 2 and 3)
Also, Bioshock 2s multiplayer kicked ass. Not perfect, but no other MP experience has given me the same rushes I've had there.
No amount of cover based military bollocks is going to replicate the sneaky joy of winning a map with a class dedicated to hacking the shit out of everything and controlling half a damn map with a pistol, a wrench and an air dash.
Or using telekenesis blow up their big daddy with his own grenades and literally flying around him 15 feet in the air, taking him down with the shotgun, solo.
Or becoming the big daddy and leading your team from being 10 down to winning the game in the last minute.
Or catching crossbow bolts mid air and then throwing them back, straight in their heads.
I don't give a fuck what you say, if you find that sort of shit bland, then you're doing it wrong.
No amount of cover based military bollocks is going to replicate the sneaky joy of winning a map with a class dedicated to hacking the shit out of everything and controlling half a damn map with a pistol, a wrench and an air dash.
Or using telekenesis blow up their big daddy with his own grenades and literally flying around him 15 feet in the air, taking him down with the shotgun, solo.
Or becoming the big daddy and leading your team from being 10 down to winning the game in the last minute.
Or catching crossbow bolts mid air and then throwing them back, straight in their heads.
I don't give a fuck what you say, if you find that sort of shit bland, then you're doing it wrong.
Multiplayer for Vanquish would have been cool. But, you see, most games have this thing called a "budget"...
CliffyB apparently played a different version of Vanquish than the version everybody else got. Because the general consensus I found among fans of Vanquish was that PVP multiplayer would have been a terrible experience and would have been a disorganized clusterfuck of rock-star-power sliding, not to mention there would be no good way to get the bullet-time mechanic to work.
The only multiplayer that would work in Vanquish would have been co-op.
The only multiplayer that would work in Vanquish would have been co-op.
I was ready to come in here and call Cliffy B a giant douchebag, but I can't entirely disagree with him. I don't really even like multiplayer, but I can't deny that it helps a lot of games. A good MP component to a game gives it legs and can increase sales. I haven't played Vanquish so I can't comment on that, but I think MP might have hurt Shadows of the Damned. At the same time good multiplayer is severely lacking in Japanese games and it might be time for Japanese developers to start taking a serious look making that more of a priority.
@Ramm
I noted that I liked Mass Effect 3's multiplayer. Also, I think a lot of people didn't like Bioshock 2 or Dead Space 2's MP: I had lots of issues finding games very close to release, and from what I could see, only a niche few enjoyed them (what multiplayer don't you like? :D).
Mass Effect 3's MP is still flourishing weeks down the line, as they are constantly [i]supporting it[/url]: something that was barely done for Bioshock 2, and nearly non-existent for Dead Space 2. Peddling 1 or 2 DLC packs months down the line is not the same as immediate weekend updates/contests and constantly evolving parameters (like Left 4 Dead 2's mutations). It shows Bioware/EA are at least committed to the idea of MP. That however, is a rare sight.
For most developers, that doesn't seem to be the case. While I did enjoy what Cliffy said about unique modes (like Demon's Souls), for the most part, I don't like his way of thinking. While in no way do I think he was bashing Eastern games like Phil Fish recently did, I think he is part of the increasingly vocal group of people who "expect" multiplayer to be in every game these days. I don't agree with that sentiment.
It also doesn't help that Gears has had notoriously bad netcode throughout the years (I wasn't able to truly use matchmaking for months in Gears 2).
I noted that I liked Mass Effect 3's multiplayer. Also, I think a lot of people didn't like Bioshock 2 or Dead Space 2's MP: I had lots of issues finding games very close to release, and from what I could see, only a niche few enjoyed them (what multiplayer don't you like? :D).
Mass Effect 3's MP is still flourishing weeks down the line, as they are constantly [i]supporting it[/url]: something that was barely done for Bioshock 2, and nearly non-existent for Dead Space 2. Peddling 1 or 2 DLC packs months down the line is not the same as immediate weekend updates/contests and constantly evolving parameters (like Left 4 Dead 2's mutations). It shows Bioware/EA are at least committed to the idea of MP. That however, is a rare sight.
For most developers, that doesn't seem to be the case. While I did enjoy what Cliffy said about unique modes (like Demon's Souls), for the most part, I don't like his way of thinking. While in no way do I think he was bashing Eastern games like Phil Fish recently did, I think he is part of the increasingly vocal group of people who "expect" multiplayer to be in every game these days. I don't agree with that sentiment.
It also doesn't help that Gears has had notoriously bad netcode throughout the years (I wasn't able to truly use matchmaking for months in Gears 2).
it would give it a lot more value that for sure I beat Vanquish in like 4 hours and traded it in but if it had mp it could be a totaly different story. Some mp games can be played for years if u got a good clan
Well, he's entitled to an opinion. I think it's an opinion that will lead to syphining resources away from finely crafted single player experiences and create mediocre multiplayer experiences no one will be playing in a month after release, and thus be a complete waste instead of imporving the single player but he's entitled to his opinion.
I say we all come to the agreement that anything that comes out of Cliffy's mouth is utter bullshit? I mean who actually likes the guy anyways?
I would honestly call Rammstein out on Bioshock 2 and DS2 MPs being good, but I think he's trolling so why bother.
I would honestly call Rammstein out on Bioshock 2 and DS2 MPs being good, but I think he's trolling so why bother.
Chris, come on ... the way you framed what he said here is beyond ridiculous.
"Cliffy B has now set his sights on a new target: the Japanese game industry"
I'm a huge, huge fan of Japanese gaming. Blezinski was going on and on for the entire interview about how much he loves Japanese games. If he was bashing it, I would be the first person to throw his ass under the bus and start criticizing, but in reality, he was actually extremely positive.
The original interview was at Gamasutra, and I suggest everyone read it. I actually enjoyed it a fair bit more than I expected I would.
http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/170144/what_if_cliff_ran_the_world.php
"Cliffy B has now set his sights on a new target: the Japanese game industry"
I'm a huge, huge fan of Japanese gaming. Blezinski was going on and on for the entire interview about how much he loves Japanese games. If he was bashing it, I would be the first person to throw his ass under the bus and start criticizing, but in reality, he was actually extremely positive.
The original interview was at Gamasutra, and I suggest everyone read it. I actually enjoyed it a fair bit more than I expected I would.
http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/170144/what_if_cliff_ran_the_world.php
@ NotoriousBIG420
Hmm, I wasn’t aware of that, looks like it could be incredibly frustrating though! But when I say it would be a mess I mean because everything you do in Vanquish is so fast it would be too chaotic, everyone would be rocket sliding and flipping all over the place and you couldn’t hit anything.
Hmm, I wasn’t aware of that, looks like it could be incredibly frustrating though! But when I say it would be a mess I mean because everything you do in Vanquish is so fast it would be too chaotic, everyone would be rocket sliding and flipping all over the place and you couldn’t hit anything.
Multiplayer is a finite feature. If a game isn't a AAA blockbuster, the chances of people still playing it after 2 weeks is fairly slim. Developers spend thousands on developing multiplayer, resources that can be used to make the single player more refined and original. People buying the game after all is said and done is just left with a half-baked single player with no-one to play with online.
It would get even worse if EVERY shooter put multiplayer in, cause then the online shooter audience is segmented even MORE. More players playing DIFFERENT games.
It would get even worse if EVERY shooter put multiplayer in, cause then the online shooter audience is segmented even MORE. More players playing DIFFERENT games.
SO peeps r sayin Cliff is wrong cause hes sayin GAMES need more value for the buck these days. Whats wrong with having more fun with game when u got mp modes included instead of trading it in after u beat the 4 hour campaign PEACE
I read the entire interview on Gamasutra and Cliff didn't come across as condescending or snide.He was basically doing what all people on blogs, forums, around their friends do, dream up and talk about their ideas for franchises. There was nothing malicious. Even if it was misguided to an extent. Games like Vanquish would not have lit Xbox Live or PSN on fire with a multi-player mode, maybe for a month and that is being generous. Infact the average mouth breathing teenage sycophant that plays Call of Duty player probably would not even give Vanquish the time of day, since the game can be extremely challenging and the key mechanics are deeper and require a level of skill, patience than most third person shooters exponentially on the market. That is not the Call of Duty audience. So while I understand what he means by giving titles "longevity" its delusion to this can be applied to all titles. Time spent on a game should not have a baring on quality. I keep saying this, time spent is nothing but time spent. Its the core experience that is important. Be it at six hours, one-hundred or three. Although he said Silent Hill stopped at Silent Hill 3, and everyone knows the only good Silent Hills are 2 and 4 :(.
Chris Carter... trying to be the next Jim Sterling.
I wish there were "editorial" tags for shit like this so I could keep following this site, but avoid this opinionated horseshit.
I wish there were "editorial" tags for shit like this so I could keep following this site, but avoid this opinionated horseshit.
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