surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
"It is extremely frustrating knowing that the hardware we've got on the PC is often ten times ten times as powerful as the consoles but it has honestly been a struggle in many cases to get the game running at 60 frames per second on the PC like it does on a 360."
Oh, God. inb4 fanboyz.
Oh, God. inb4 fanboyz.
Who forced him to make a console version? Don't get me wrong, I'm totally interested in picking up a console copy, but it just seems like he shouldn't have bothered if it's such a frustrating struggle.
well, given the fact, that quakecon is a mostly PC gamer show, i'm sure he would've been lynched if he said something bad about PC:)
I respect Carmack for all he's done, and am grateful for his role in making the industry what it is today, but this sounds like a bunch of qq-ing to me.
I've never encountered one, but I would've thought that the console dev kits have 100% debug access...? Otherwise what's the point? I find that one hard to believe, especially given that you can use a keyboard and mouse on a standard-issue PS3, yes?
As for hardware limitations, well huzzah for captain obvious. He knew going into it what the state of the hardware was, so if he's gonna bitch and moan about it, maybe he should've stuck with the PC only. Then again, this game isn't exactly a paradigm-shifting revolution, and if games like Skyrim, Fallout and Deus Ex can all do it, so can he.
I've never encountered one, but I would've thought that the console dev kits have 100% debug access...? Otherwise what's the point? I find that one hard to believe, especially given that you can use a keyboard and mouse on a standard-issue PS3, yes?
As for hardware limitations, well huzzah for captain obvious. He knew going into it what the state of the hardware was, so if he's gonna bitch and moan about it, maybe he should've stuck with the PC only. Then again, this game isn't exactly a paradigm-shifting revolution, and if games like Skyrim, Fallout and Deus Ex can all do it, so can he.
I just want to know which console version is better 360 or PS3. After getting burned by Fallout and other open-world glitches I will wait for reviews.
Makes him sound sorta stupid, but whatever.
I mean, no shit, PCs are always going to be better than consoles, unless they allow you to upgrade consoles.. which no company would ever do, since they want to keep everyone on the same level, and not "everyone" would do it, thus it's not worth it to them.
But yeah, running at 60 FPS and having piss-poor texture resolution is definitely frustrating.
I mean, no shit, PCs are always going to be better than consoles, unless they allow you to upgrade consoles.. which no company would ever do, since they want to keep everyone on the same level, and not "everyone" would do it, thus it's not worth it to them.
But yeah, running at 60 FPS and having piss-poor texture resolution is definitely frustrating.
That headline makes no sense. It suggests that he is frustrated by the fact that consoles are weaker than PC's but what the actual quote says is that he is frustrated by the fact that even though PC's are significantly more powerful you are stuck with a lot of overhead making it harder to optimize for them.
Jim I think you're misinterpreting that quote. He's not frustrated that consoles are weaker than PC, he's frustrated that even though PCs can be 10 times as powerful as consoles, it's harder to get games running at 60 frames per second because of issues with driver overhead.
"the PC is often ten times ten times as powerful as the consoles"
So PCs are 100x more powerful than a console?
So PCs are 100x more powerful than a console?
"the PC is often ten times ten times as powerful as the consoles"
So PCs are 100x more powerful than a console?
So PCs are 100x more powerful than a console?
FIle under no shit. So, don't put your fucking game out on the consoles! Keep it on PC where you like it
oh, wait, your sales will not soar as much and the scallywag pirates'll get ya, right mate? It is the bottom line every time, is it not?
I hate when developers and publishers complain about shit like this. If he hates it so much, he can always launch his own console you know. There's no one stopping him, or Activision, or Ubisoft from getting in the console game instead of impotently bitching about it.
When developers complain about stuff like this, it comes off as self-entitled bitching. Launching a new console in the middle of this economy is not going to be risk free for anyone who does it. That's what I don't get. He's basically saying that he's frustrated that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft haven't rushed into huge financial risks so that he can take advantage of it.
When developers complain about stuff like this, it comes off as self-entitled bitching. Launching a new console in the middle of this economy is not going to be risk free for anyone who does it. That's what I don't get. He's basically saying that he's frustrated that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft haven't rushed into huge financial risks so that he can take advantage of it.
When you can buy a whole PC powerful enough to run RAGE for $200-$300 maybe I'll start giving a shit. I gave up on the PC upgrade parade years ago and don't regret it.
Unless it's super moddable like Elder Scrolls/Fallout, I don't even think twice about buying for console any more. Most of the really interesting PC titles these days is indie stuff that doesn't need uber-hardware anyway.
Unless it's super moddable like Elder Scrolls/Fallout, I don't even think twice about buying for console any more. Most of the really interesting PC titles these days is indie stuff that doesn't need uber-hardware anyway.
When developers complain about this issue, I just roll my eyes. Here's the thing: no one is surprised by the fact that PCs and consoles are two different beasts. PCs can be upgraded when needed to meet game specifications. Consoles cannot. We all know that getting a PC game to work on a console can, in many examples, be a difficult thing.
So, for game developers, they can either deal with it, or don't release the game on a console.
Console-only owners have learned to deal with the disappointment of a game going PC-only. But they also don't have to worry about replacing graphics cards and upgrading memory just to play a game. Gamers have the option of buying a console and play a game without dealing with the issues PCs have, sticking with PCs and get a "superior" version of the game...or just use both and get the best of both worlds.
So, for game developers, they can either deal with it, or don't release the game on a console.
Console-only owners have learned to deal with the disappointment of a game going PC-only. But they also don't have to worry about replacing graphics cards and upgrading memory just to play a game. Gamers have the option of buying a console and play a game without dealing with the issues PCs have, sticking with PCs and get a "superior" version of the game...or just use both and get the best of both worlds.
"He has also complained about a gamer's inability to plug in a keyboard and access a game's debug menu on PS3 and 360"
That's funny, I've used a keyboard on both. It's not the console's weakness why you can't use a keyboard for a debug menu.
That's funny, I've used a keyboard on both. It's not the console's weakness why you can't use a keyboard for a debug menu.
"He has also complained about a gamer's inability to plug in a keyboard and access a game's debug menu on PS3 and 360 -- something PC fans have always enjoyed."
I have a USB keyboard sitting right next to my 360 and PS3 that I plug in to type out messages and the like, so I'm not sure why the same couldn't be done in-game. Also, it's my understanding that the PS3 has full keyboard and mouse support should the developers choose to implement it. Just sayin'.
I have a USB keyboard sitting right next to my 360 and PS3 that I plug in to type out messages and the like, so I'm not sure why the same couldn't be done in-game. Also, it's my understanding that the PS3 has full keyboard and mouse support should the developers choose to implement it. Just sayin'.
You know, on such a convention people ask what the difficulties where and a geek like Carmack answers in his honest form. That's not pretty to hear but why the fuck do you have a problem with that?
@DasPooch:
Stating facts is now QQ'ing? Are you really that butthurt? And don't talk about things you have no fucking clue. It may be no 'paradigm shift' to guys like you who don't know what's been done under the hood. For everyone else it is. You can take your Skyrim, Fallout and Deus Ex. They may be visually more appealing to you but they use the same textures over and over and over. Something that Rage doesn't. If that's no technical achievement then I don't know what is.
And maybe you should start reading the text a little more carefully. Quote: "He has also complained about a gamer's inability to plug in a keyboard and access a game's debug menu on PS3 and 360 -- something PC fans have always enjoyed. "
Gamer's inability. Not developers.
@DasPooch:
Stating facts is now QQ'ing? Are you really that butthurt? And don't talk about things you have no fucking clue. It may be no 'paradigm shift' to guys like you who don't know what's been done under the hood. For everyone else it is. You can take your Skyrim, Fallout and Deus Ex. They may be visually more appealing to you but they use the same textures over and over and over. Something that Rage doesn't. If that's no technical achievement then I don't know what is.
And maybe you should start reading the text a little more carefully. Quote: "He has also complained about a gamer's inability to plug in a keyboard and access a game's debug menu on PS3 and 360 -- something PC fans have always enjoyed. "
Gamer's inability. Not developers.
Wait, can't the PS3 take a keyboard and mouse no problem? From what I heard unreal tournament did that just fine on the PlayStation 3. Still, yeah the systems are starting to show their age.
Yeah consoles nowadays are pretty second rate when it comes to gaming's cutting edge. Bring in the new machines already, it's been too long.
Mine are just gathering dust in the corner, should probably sell them tbh.
PC gaming at the moment is easily the better format.
Mine are just gathering dust in the corner, should probably sell them tbh.
PC gaming at the moment is easily the better format.
The fella makes pc game for fuck's sake. Of course he will piss and moan about "inferior" consoles. I'm surprised he isn't having a tantrum about aiming with the right analog stick instead of a mouse too. Face it most pc users place themselves on the superior pedestal. It's a fact that people who believe they are using the best complain about something that's considered beneath them. Leave him to moan, it's to be expected.
Believe they are using the best? The man's a genius and an industry stalwart. I'm more inclined to atleast aknowledge what he has to say over a butthurt fanboy. :(
Like DasPooch said, you can plug a keyboard and mouse into a PS3. You can plug at least a keyboard into a 360 as well, not to mention each console has a chatpad for its controllers. These would allow for easy debug console access and you could even simulate a mouse with the PS3 chatpad or change one of the 360 analog sticks into a mouse while in debug if need be.
Also, from a graphical standpoint wouldn't it be harder to develop a pc game that runs smooth across all pcs as opposed to a console since not everyone's pc is built alike? What i mean here is wouldn't that make the optimal graphical experience inaccessible to pc gamers who can't afford high end systems while all console gamers will get the maximum experience possible without having to spend any extra money, thus expanding the number of people who will have access to the game and thus the amount of revenue coming in for the developer? I think Carmack is just looking for things to bitch about.
Also, from a graphical standpoint wouldn't it be harder to develop a pc game that runs smooth across all pcs as opposed to a console since not everyone's pc is built alike? What i mean here is wouldn't that make the optimal graphical experience inaccessible to pc gamers who can't afford high end systems while all console gamers will get the maximum experience possible without having to spend any extra money, thus expanding the number of people who will have access to the game and thus the amount of revenue coming in for the developer? I think Carmack is just looking for things to bitch about.
@DOOMstein
You make an interesting point and to be honest you're totally right. Due to this generation being console biased in terms of console development you have a situation where quite old/inexpensive PC's are running this generation of games ok, it's a double edged sword but definitely a positive aspect if you're not a huge PC techie or nerd.
You make an interesting point and to be honest you're totally right. Due to this generation being console biased in terms of console development you have a situation where quite old/inexpensive PC's are running this generation of games ok, it's a double edged sword but definitely a positive aspect if you're not a huge PC techie or nerd.
Carmack has always been one to push the technical aspect of gaming. It's no surprise that he's frustrated with the limits of console hardware. There's a visual standard he wants, and it's difficult to achieve without the extra horsepower of a PC. He can either release a PC only game and cut potential revenue, or deal with consoles.
"but it has honestly been a struggle in many cases to get the game running at 60 frames per second on the PC like it does on a 360," he said during his QuakeCon keynote.
He said that even something as simple as texture updating can be a nightmare, due to the console's relative simplicity in comparison to the PC code."
Uhhh, guys... I hate to be Captain Obvious here, but based on the above, he is actually saying that the 360 is a better platform to develop for than the PC, despite having 10 times the power, and that the 360 version of Rage will have guaranteed 60 FPS unlike the PC.
He said that even something as simple as texture updating can be a nightmare, due to the console's relative simplicity in comparison to the PC code."
Uhhh, guys... I hate to be Captain Obvious here, but based on the above, he is actually saying that the 360 is a better platform to develop for than the PC, despite having 10 times the power, and that the 360 version of Rage will have guaranteed 60 FPS unlike the PC.
I don't know where Jim is getting the idea that Carmack is "sick" of anything. That quote is actually from his QuakeCon keynote where he talks about the advantages and disadvantages when comparing PC and console games development. Even the sourced CVG article portrays it that way, so I don't know what Jim is pulling here.
He should have developed a next gen engine for the PC like he has always done and he left the porting and downscaling and to another developer. Problem solved.
He must be even more frustrated that developing games for PC isn't as profitable as developing them for the 360 and PS3. Even though the current consoles are aging and are seen as "holding back" games, I still hope that they last for another couple of years. I feel like there's a lot left that these systems can provide. A long console generation is a good thing not a bad one. I don't want to have to buy a new PS3 or 360 every 4-5 years.
Stop crying, Carmack.
Either make it PC exclusive and make zero money, or dry your tears and deal with the consoles.
Either make it PC exclusive and make zero money, or dry your tears and deal with the consoles.
@Twosixteen
Last years best selling game is essentially Doom with better graphics. Of course he's relevant.
Last years best selling game is essentially Doom with better graphics. Of course he's relevant.
hey jim, you repeteated "ten times" in the second paragraph, yought you should know.
Anyway, I think he´s just whinning that he has to overwork, but the man´s got a point that it´s a pain in the ass to port a pc game to the 360 and ps3 if the graphics in it are too demanding
Anyway, I think he´s just whinning that he has to overwork, but the man´s got a point that it´s a pain in the ass to port a pc game to the 360 and ps3 if the graphics in it are too demanding
I'm seeing a lot more crying in the comments than I see in Carmacks harmless little off the cuff remark.
Yeah he is a genius, and I do agree with u that his opinion is far more acknowledgeable than a butthurt fanfoys, but face it he is moaning about something that makes him sound like a douche and enforces the "I'm better than you" sterotype that appears so often in pc gaming. The "believes" comment was intentionally ambigious to in order to refer to everybody who has that train of thought, (ie people who have amazing pcs but nowhere near as adavanced as his) your reaction to this kind of pushes u towards that direction too. After his statement as long as he makes good games for my PC I don't give a flying squirrel shit about what he has to say anymore. His comments came across as pompous and elitist, which to me makes an asshole. Not impressed in the slightest.
Yeah he is a genius, and I do agree with u that his opinion is far more acknowledgeable than a butthurt fanfoys, but face it he is moaning about something that makes him sound like a douche and enforces the "I'm better than you" sterotype that appears so often in pc gaming. The "believes" comment was intentionally ambigious to in order to refer to everybody who has that train of thought, (ie people who have amazing pcs but nowhere near as adavanced as his) your reaction to this kind of pushes u towards that direction too. After his statement as long as he makes good games for my PC I don't give a flying squirrel shit about what he has to say anymore. His comments came across as pompous and elitist, which to me makes an asshole. Not impressed in the slightest.
You fucking people sometimes. He probably made an off hand comment at the fucking event. He probably loves the work his guys have done on the consoles. Shit y'all make me embarrassed to be a gamer sometimes...
Extremely misleading headline for the article. In neither of the quotes does carmack vent any frustration about consoles being weaker than pc. He is frustrated because of the fact that even though pc's are ten times as powerful they still require more work to get the game running at 60 fps than consoles.
So, did really no one understood what that quote meant?
He was NOT frustrated because consoles were weak.
He WAS frustrated because PCs are a lot more powerfull, BUT it is sometimes harder to get the games running at 60 fps. (because you are not able to program directly onto the hardware and have to use directx)
wow people.. is it really that hard to understand that sentence?
He was NOT frustrated because consoles were weak.
He WAS frustrated because PCs are a lot more powerfull, BUT it is sometimes harder to get the games running at 60 fps. (because you are not able to program directly onto the hardware and have to use directx)
wow people.. is it really that hard to understand that sentence?
Lol, I'm done pretending to be a twat now, got a few hits though didn't it? This game looks bloody good btw. Play nicely destructoiders, Byeeeee.
"He has also complained about a gamer's inability to plug in a keyboard and access a game's debug menu on PS3 and 360"
That's funny, I've used a keyboard on both. It's not the console's weakness why you can't use a keyboard for a debug menu."
You're reading it wrong. Anybody can plug in a keyboard, text pad or whatever, but you can't plug it in AND access the console.
That's funny, I've used a keyboard on both. It's not the console's weakness why you can't use a keyboard for a debug menu."
You're reading it wrong. Anybody can plug in a keyboard, text pad or whatever, but you can't plug it in AND access the console.
follow
