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I find this almost as amusing as when they tried to partake of a modern version of Hitler's favourite passtime, a Game burning.
Germany is funny.
Germany is funny.
German son of a bitch! Oh, sorry, I was just saying a dialog from COD 3. What? Games that influence individuals? Not a chance 8D!...
I HATE GERMANS O.O
(JK...)
I HATE GERMANS O.O
(JK...)
Wow, that's incredible - I can't believe they'd cut Sympathy for the Devil due to a WW2 reference.
I mean, the song mentions so many different things and events in history, it seems completely ridiculous to jump on it for that one line.
Also, obligatory "Don't mention the War!" reference.
I mean, the song mentions so many different things and events in history, it seems completely ridiculous to jump on it for that one line.
Also, obligatory "Don't mention the War!" reference.
Oh we can't let our children listen to the rolling stones, guess we should send to a history class instead.
Sorry Jim, but this is one time where I have to say you're completely wrong. I've been to Germany and even visited a concentration camp, and if there's one thing they don't do, it's run away from the history of World War II. They're very upfront about it. The country that can't even admit to doing a single thing in the war is Japan. I'll agree that Germany's censorship of video games is stupid and pointless, but don't go making baseless assumptions about the entire country.
Well we're pretty much used to that crap by now... I don't see how bulletstorm is going to be released over here.
Long live amazon.co.uk I guess.
Long live amazon.co.uk I guess.
I'm German and I really like Destructoid, but when I read this, I had to register to say my part. I've been trying to find the right words to say what I think and I guess this makes it clear:
Shut the fuck up.
(or "Halts Maul", as we say in Germany)
What you wrote is not only critically wrong, but also stupid and highly insulting. Yes, I also have a problem with the way games are rated here. And I agree that cutting "Sympathy for the devil" seems like a bad joke. But sitting there and saying that Germany "ought to grow up" and that we "refuse to ever dare recognize that Nazis existed" is so fucked up, I cannot even begin to say how wrong you are.
It is highly obvious that you never spent one minute to understand the reasons why the German rating board has these rules in place. And you clearly don't understand why Activison chose to make these adjustments. The game wouldn't have been banned, the sales would only be restricted to adults. And to sell more copies, Activision took some content out, to allow the game to be sold to people over 16. Nobody forced them to do this.
Shut the fuck up.
(or "Halts Maul", as we say in Germany)
What you wrote is not only critically wrong, but also stupid and highly insulting. Yes, I also have a problem with the way games are rated here. And I agree that cutting "Sympathy for the devil" seems like a bad joke. But sitting there and saying that Germany "ought to grow up" and that we "refuse to ever dare recognize that Nazis existed" is so fucked up, I cannot even begin to say how wrong you are.
It is highly obvious that you never spent one minute to understand the reasons why the German rating board has these rules in place. And you clearly don't understand why Activison chose to make these adjustments. The game wouldn't have been banned, the sales would only be restricted to adults. And to sell more copies, Activision took some content out, to allow the game to be sold to people over 16. Nobody forced them to do this.
Believe me, we hate our censorship here. What hey, what are imports for? And besides: Not the Germans have to grow up, our pathetic politicians need to. We just want to play the games the way the developer meant it to be.
me as a fellow german can only fully acknowledge the things andreas schneider said.
jim please dont talk about things you have absolutly no knowledge about.
besides, the cuts were made by activision not by any german institution. so the only people who are to blame fort his are the people from activision.
jim please dont talk about things you have absolutly no knowledge about.
besides, the cuts were made by activision not by any german institution. so the only people who are to blame fort his are the people from activision.
Wait, Synpathy for the Devil is in this game?
I won't lie, I'd rent the shit out of it just for that.
What are we talking about again? This is about how Sympathy for the Devil is in the game right?
Also, Hats Maul is now my new band's name.
I won't lie, I'd rent the shit out of it just for that.
What are we talking about again? This is about how Sympathy for the Devil is in the game right?
Also, Hats Maul is now my new band's name.
Andreas makes a very good point.
Activision didn't NEED to make a number of these changes, they did so to lower their age rating and to maximise sales. It really doesn't surprise me, i can feel the cash in my pocket being drawn towards Kotick and his money grabbing machine from here!
I just wish, developers, publishers and rating agencies etc would all just accept that some games are for adults and as such can contain adult themes.
It's almost like a punishment to recieve an M or 18 rating these days. That's for games but also films in quite a big way.
Even games like Manhunt have an audience in adults. just because some parents are so irresponsible that they will buy 18 rated games for their kids to keep them quiet, doesn't mean the adult gamer population should go without adult themed games.
All games are for kids, so an 18 rated game is pointless.
/sarcasm
Activision didn't NEED to make a number of these changes, they did so to lower their age rating and to maximise sales. It really doesn't surprise me, i can feel the cash in my pocket being drawn towards Kotick and his money grabbing machine from here!
I just wish, developers, publishers and rating agencies etc would all just accept that some games are for adults and as such can contain adult themes.
It's almost like a punishment to recieve an M or 18 rating these days. That's for games but also films in quite a big way.
Even games like Manhunt have an audience in adults. just because some parents are so irresponsible that they will buy 18 rated games for their kids to keep them quiet, doesn't mean the adult gamer population should go without adult themed games.
All games are for kids, so an 18 rated game is pointless.
/sarcasm
@Andreas Schneider
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Why DOES the German rating board have rules in place that would bump this game to an Adult title if Sympathy for the Devil was included?
Funny story about Sympathy for the Devil, though. My very religious sister was over with her kids for christmas and I let them play Audio Surf. Unfortunately, it turns out that Sympathy for the Devil was mislabled on my PC. Everyone was very quiet for a long time.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Why DOES the German rating board have rules in place that would bump this game to an Adult title if Sympathy for the Devil was included?
Funny story about Sympathy for the Devil, though. My very religious sister was over with her kids for christmas and I let them play Audio Surf. Unfortunately, it turns out that Sympathy for the Devil was mislabled on my PC. Everyone was very quiet for a long time.
If the game was anything like the picture in the header with cat-guns and smiley faced maniacs I'd make it a day one purchase.
@Jim: Thank you for your updated comments.
I understand that the way Germany acts as a "nanny state" bewilders many from the US, where freedom of speech, as a constitutional right, is held in the highest regard. But basically, you guys act the same. Just exchange "violence and nazi symbols" with "sex".
Here in Germany, we try to "protect" our youth from overly violent videogames and other media. Is it always the right thing to do? Is it even done well? No. We have much to learn and we are overeager, I give you that. But basically, as an adult, you have no restrictions getting the games you want. It's not as easy to buy Dead Rising 2 like buying Super Mario Galaxy 2, but we manage.
On the other hand, sex and nudity is a very natural thing here. And while in the US, national emergency is declared when a nipple slips out of a blouse on national television, here in Germany, for example, you even have margarine ads in commercial breaks in normal, free to watch television featuring nude people.
And I'd argue every time that watching people having sex is far more natural than people with chainsaw bayonets.
But of course, the videogame market is highly US-driven. So we rarely have erotic stuff in games. But the examples we have, like Mass Effect or Dragon Age etc., caused some huge discussions in the US, while causing only a shoulder shrug here in Germany. This is often ignored while talking about German "censorship".
tl;dr: Come visit Germany, drink a good beer, have a great time. I like it here. Even if buying Dead Rising 2 means going to a specialized game store, instead of buying it at mass electronics store.
I understand that the way Germany acts as a "nanny state" bewilders many from the US, where freedom of speech, as a constitutional right, is held in the highest regard. But basically, you guys act the same. Just exchange "violence and nazi symbols" with "sex".
Here in Germany, we try to "protect" our youth from overly violent videogames and other media. Is it always the right thing to do? Is it even done well? No. We have much to learn and we are overeager, I give you that. But basically, as an adult, you have no restrictions getting the games you want. It's not as easy to buy Dead Rising 2 like buying Super Mario Galaxy 2, but we manage.
On the other hand, sex and nudity is a very natural thing here. And while in the US, national emergency is declared when a nipple slips out of a blouse on national television, here in Germany, for example, you even have margarine ads in commercial breaks in normal, free to watch television featuring nude people.
And I'd argue every time that watching people having sex is far more natural than people with chainsaw bayonets.
But of course, the videogame market is highly US-driven. So we rarely have erotic stuff in games. But the examples we have, like Mass Effect or Dragon Age etc., caused some huge discussions in the US, while causing only a shoulder shrug here in Germany. This is often ignored while talking about German "censorship".
tl;dr: Come visit Germany, drink a good beer, have a great time. I like it here. Even if buying Dead Rising 2 means going to a specialized game store, instead of buying it at mass electronics store.
@pokota:
"@Andreas Schneider
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Why DOES the German rating board have rules in place that would bump this game to an Adult title if Sympathy for the Devil was included? "
Really, I have no idea. But I guess it was a combination of several factors. I didn't play the game, obviously, but I'll try to give you an example. The german rating systems really doesn't like games glorifying war or violence. Violence as a means to a noble end, while telling a meaningful story isn't suited for kids, but otherwise ok. But imagine, for example, a rail shooter sequence in a game, something like from Apocalypse Now: You sit in a Huey, firing your chaingun, dropping napalm bombs and watching people die gory deaths, all while Ride of the Valkyries is playing. This would never get a release for a teenage audience. And in the changelog it would say "Remove Ride of the Valkyries".
Again, I don't know if this is how it is here, but this is a scenario which could explain it, you understand?
"@Andreas Schneider
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Why DOES the German rating board have rules in place that would bump this game to an Adult title if Sympathy for the Devil was included? "
Really, I have no idea. But I guess it was a combination of several factors. I didn't play the game, obviously, but I'll try to give you an example. The german rating systems really doesn't like games glorifying war or violence. Violence as a means to a noble end, while telling a meaningful story isn't suited for kids, but otherwise ok. But imagine, for example, a rail shooter sequence in a game, something like from Apocalypse Now: You sit in a Huey, firing your chaingun, dropping napalm bombs and watching people die gory deaths, all while Ride of the Valkyries is playing. This would never get a release for a teenage audience. And in the changelog it would say "Remove Ride of the Valkyries".
Again, I don't know if this is how it is here, but this is a scenario which could explain it, you understand?
Any time a state tells adults what they can play and do and think they have turned them into a child.
THEY CUT OUT SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL?! Really, Germany? Do you really think that anyone isn't going to remember what happened? I mean hell, it's not like anyone blames the current regime, it was like 70 years ago! Cutting out the Stones, that's just messed up.
Garanteed to cause DLC problems for all involved.... And those that caused the problems have no horse in the race, so it's all good (for them).
From Sympathy for the Devil....
"I rode a tank, held a Generals rank
when the Blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."
So can the song be played on the radio in Germany? Seriously want to know.
"I rode a tank, held a Generals rank
when the Blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."
So can the song be played on the radio in Germany? Seriously want to know.
Also wondering how Germany handles "The Producers" and it's all time classic bit, "Springtime for Hitler"?
"..,so I highly recommend importing or piracy for those gamers who don't like to pay inflated European prices.."
Hey, I'm going to do that for some TF2 items. Pirate Portal 2 and spend the money I save on TF2 items :)
Thanks to e1m1 http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467572
Hey, I'm going to do that for some TF2 items. Pirate Portal 2 and spend the money I save on TF2 items :)
Thanks to e1m1 http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467572
Sympathy for the devil can be played on the radio with no restrictions.
The Producers, the original and the remake, are sold freely (age rating 12+ for the original, 6+ for the remake) and the remake also carries the subline "Frühling für Hitler" (Springtime for Hitler). And it is sold in an Arthaus collection, which distributes culturally valuable movies.
If you guys have any more question about Germany, just ask.
The Producers, the original and the remake, are sold freely (age rating 12+ for the original, 6+ for the remake) and the remake also carries the subline "Frühling für Hitler" (Springtime for Hitler). And it is sold in an Arthaus collection, which distributes culturally valuable movies.
If you guys have any more question about Germany, just ask.
Br0th3rGr1mm
Movies are no problemo they are officially rated as art so you could basicly watch swastikas all day long in german tv. But with games/comics its very different they are rated as...toys...and in Germany no game/plaything is allowed to contain nazi stuff.
Movies are no problemo they are officially rated as art so you could basicly watch swastikas all day long in german tv. But with games/comics its very different they are rated as...toys...and in Germany no game/plaything is allowed to contain nazi stuff.
The rules are maybe silly, but little that we can do against it... as much as we already did. Thanks to amok jerks and so-called "moaral knights" of the politic, we are where we are here in Germany. You think we are happy with this? Fuck, I wish I could buy Dead Rising 1 and 2 here, but since everyone is afraid about the wellness of our teens, we don't get this games but only as import from Austria.
I, for myself, am not a big fan of WW-FPS, but I can understand at least a bit why they censor swastikas and SS symbols. This is something we have to deal with. But to ban Gore and Blood just for the sake of the children... question is how they got their hands on those games, which leaves to their parents!
I, for myself, am not a big fan of WW-FPS, but I can understand at least a bit why they censor swastikas and SS symbols. This is something we have to deal with. But to ban Gore and Blood just for the sake of the children... question is how they got their hands on those games, which leaves to their parents!
@Andreas: You've been very reasonable and sensible about explaining a lot of the little things at work that aren't apparent on the surface.
I would agree that at least part of the mainstream US culture is pretty violence obsessed. It really kicked into gear after September 11, when the entire nation was ready to go on a manhunt.
It feels like there's been blood in the water ever since.
I would agree that at least part of the mainstream US culture is pretty violence obsessed. It really kicked into gear after September 11, when the entire nation was ready to go on a manhunt.
It feels like there's been blood in the water ever since.
oooooo...very nice games
Jocuri cu Hannah Montana
Jocuri cu Hannah Montana
It still seems weird that they'd take violence out to maxamise profits. I'm pretty sure kids don't care that they're buying a game with a older age rating - I would of thought they were ALREADY maxamazing profits.
And I have to say, although Andrea has made a lot of good points, it does still seem rather silly to remove nazi symbolism. I very much doubt MWBO will glorify Nazis... and it's not as if Nazis are intrinsically adult - they've been in a lot of children's (12+, I think) movies.
And I have to say, although Andrea has made a lot of good points, it does still seem rather silly to remove nazi symbolism. I very much doubt MWBO will glorify Nazis... and it's not as if Nazis are intrinsically adult - they've been in a lot of children's (12+, I think) movies.
Would be awesome if they replaced The Stones for The Beatles. Or the Monkees for ultra irony.
@Andreas
As a Dutchman I like to make fun of you guys. And I often do. But you're one of the good guys. I guess somebody finally had to clear things up. Good job! Why don't you stay on Dtoid now that you're here? You sound like a cool dude. We love cool dudes.
p.s. My grandpa would like his bicycle back please. Thanks.
@Andreas
As a Dutchman I like to make fun of you guys. And I often do. But you're one of the good guys. I guess somebody finally had to clear things up. Good job! Why don't you stay on Dtoid now that you're here? You sound like a cool dude. We love cool dudes.
p.s. My grandpa would like his bicycle back please. Thanks.
There's something about Germany. Their infatuation with book-burning wasn't just in WW2 for example.
If I ever get into the entertainment business, I will do everything in my power to ensure that any country that would censor my works never gets them. I don't want their self-regulating money.
"The censorship of violence and sex is intrinsically immature and childish, moreso than the content itself."
Uhh...we don't know that. I would really like to see arguments for this conclusion.
Uhh...we don't know that. I would really like to see arguments for this conclusion.
@Keegah: Yeah, wasn't there the same problem in the USA some weeks ago? Guess some people just can't learn from history *sighs*
@Andreas Schneider
Perhaps you're right, and there is more to the omission of 'Sympathy for the Devil' than is readily apparent. I guess we'll have to wait for more details to surface, or an official explanation.
As far as the way nudity and violence are handled here in the US, I completely agree that it's crazy and perplexing. It turns out that religious nut-jobs enjoy playing in politics, as well.
Perhaps you're right, and there is more to the omission of 'Sympathy for the Devil' than is readily apparent. I guess we'll have to wait for more details to surface, or an official explanation.
As far as the way nudity and violence are handled here in the US, I completely agree that it's crazy and perplexing. It turns out that religious nut-jobs enjoy playing in politics, as well.
Yeah, this is ALL and offshoot of the "games are toys for kids" mentality which needs to be crushed globally.
Also, apparently you can't buy Mein Kampf in Germany. Or at least in German perhaps, i have a buddy over there who would like a copy for study, but is apparently having trouble getting hold of it.
Also, apparently you can't buy Mein Kampf in Germany. Or at least in German perhaps, i have a buddy over there who would like a copy for study, but is apparently having trouble getting hold of it.
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