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It was a neat experiment that ultimately failed but I think with each game they are getting just a wee bit closer to getting it right.
I actually agree with him. Heavy Rain was a big risk that paid off, and I hope its success inspires other developers to create more original, narrative focused games.
Heavy Rain's story/narrative was absolute shit. In my opinion, the original Mass Effect had a much better story and with far fewer plot holes. I will never understand why people claim that this "game" is so amazing or why the narrative is so good.
It terms of narrative, I agree with you Jim.
But in terms of overall tone for a video game, I definitely consider it one of the most mature of its kind.
But in terms of overall tone for a video game, I definitely consider it one of the most mature of its kind.
Jim, Why must all your articles be negative? I really enjoy reading your stuff, but every article has to have some negative comments or scathing remarks. I know you didn't like heavy rain, but I believe that it's existence is needed in this gaming world full of sequels and remakes. And since when does plot holes in a game detract from a score? I remember you guys rated Mdub 2 pretty high and it's plot was freakin Swiss cheese
Jim, I think you're letting your own view as a writer (you are still working on that book, right?) getting in the way here.
I agree that there are plot holes. I agree that the characters aren't the best ever created. But for once, in spite of all the holes and characters that lacked the necessary depth we all wish they could have had, I actually cared about those characters. The story kept me interested. The gameplay felt interesting and, well, was just different.
I honestly believe what Cage has to say here. No, it has not advanced story telling in games. But it has shown that a game that is all about the story, about choices (even if the many were unimportant) still allowed me as a player to craft my own version of the story. And no matter how many times I beat Heavy Rain again, I'll always remember the first playthrough and how the game ended.
It doesn't matter if I save Jayden in the further playthroughs. For me, he'll always still be the one character who died at the end for me.
I agree that there are plot holes. I agree that the characters aren't the best ever created. But for once, in spite of all the holes and characters that lacked the necessary depth we all wish they could have had, I actually cared about those characters. The story kept me interested. The gameplay felt interesting and, well, was just different.
I honestly believe what Cage has to say here. No, it has not advanced story telling in games. But it has shown that a game that is all about the story, about choices (even if the many were unimportant) still allowed me as a player to craft my own version of the story. And no matter how many times I beat Heavy Rain again, I'll always remember the first playthrough and how the game ended.
It doesn't matter if I save Jayden in the further playthroughs. For me, he'll always still be the one character who died at the end for me.
What an arrogant cockbite.
Heavy Rain was terrible, and there've been more mature games in the past. Just because it had dragons or elves or spacemen doesn't mean a story can't be mature and compelling.
Heavy Rain was terrible, and there've been more mature games in the past. Just because it had dragons or elves or spacemen doesn't mean a story can't be mature and compelling.
Pretty bullshit statement. QTEs have been around for ages, and SNES games did a better job invoking emotion, and introducing horribly twisted, tear inducing stories into games. It's all been done before.
I still can't believe that a game that was so reliant on the story that the fucked it up so bad. If you basically have to lie to the audience in order to have a contrived "twist", you have no place writing stories. Such a wasted opportunity.
If you focus directly on what David Cage is bleatin', rather then 'Heavy Rain' as a general 'outside the usual' success, than criticism is valid. In the big picture, it's always good narrative focused, older-audience aimed games find a place in the sun. But what Cage is talking up is the level of writing/innovation of 'Heavy Rain' as being ground-breaking. And it just ain't. The writing/scripting, in particular, was grade-A Fear.net made-for-cable cheese.
It's great that the *type* of game Heavy Rain is get's some market love. But the game itself was one of the biggest disappointments for me of last year.
It's great that the *type* of game Heavy Rain is get's some market love. But the game itself was one of the biggest disappointments for me of last year.
It's funny, someone like Itoi should be saying this, but doesn't. Why? Because he's not a pretentious asshole!
Geez, what's next? Yoshio Sakamoto makes a claim that Other M has allowed Samus Aran to establish herself as a well-nuanced female protagonist that should set the example?
I don't understand how people cared about these characters. They were so forced on the player, and we barely got to know them before we were thrown into this OMG MY SON drama. Why should I care about his son? Answer: I don't.
"Jim, Why must all your articles be negative? I really enjoy reading your stuff, but every article has to have some negative comments or scathing remarks."
Total bullshit, mate.
Total bullshit, mate.
Ugh.
Heavy Rain's story may not have been the best that gaming has to offer, but it's themes and the way it was presented WERE revolutionary.
How many mainstream attempts has their been at telling a sigularly DRAMATIC story in a game? One that isn't beholden to "genre" conceits and summer blockbuster set peices? That isn't set in a fantastical world of myth and monsters (Even Silent Hill 2, as great as it is, is guilty of that) The truth is that the success of games like Heavy Rain and Limbo will show those in power in the industry that games with stories that aim for dramatic weight and earnestness have a place in the video game market. And THAT is why Heavy Rain is so important.
Heavy Rain's story may not have been the best that gaming has to offer, but it's themes and the way it was presented WERE revolutionary.
How many mainstream attempts has their been at telling a sigularly DRAMATIC story in a game? One that isn't beholden to "genre" conceits and summer blockbuster set peices? That isn't set in a fantastical world of myth and monsters (Even Silent Hill 2, as great as it is, is guilty of that) The truth is that the success of games like Heavy Rain and Limbo will show those in power in the industry that games with stories that aim for dramatic weight and earnestness have a place in the video game market. And THAT is why Heavy Rain is so important.
I bought a PS3 because of Heavy Rain and The Last Guardian. I hope the latter will justify my purchase than the former.
One day I'll play all the way through this game and judge for myself. The demo didn't do a whole lot for me though.
If you took the plot from Heavy Rain and made it into a movie, then the movie would be crap. But, Heavy Rain as a video game was a good experience although very brief. I would definitely <b><i>rent</i></b> future Quantic Dream games.
Heavy Rain was kind of engaging and kind of good and that's all. It has a mediocre story with plot elements that made it stupid and the whole "not a game but a movie" thing never really pans out. Plenty of games before it have brought on the maturity but honestly I think that's all bullshit in gaming. All I want to do is kick back drink beer and shoot things, Texas style.
@ Nicodemus
The problem is that it's been done before and done better! Have you played Silent Hill: Shattered Memories or Fragile Dreams? Limbo was all about style over substance.
Heavy Rain proves that if you present a "mature" story with human characters than gamers will think it's important. No, it's not. If the writing is bad then the rest of the game fails. Come on! Be realistic here! Stop being a apologetic.
The problem is that it's been done before and done better! Have you played Silent Hill: Shattered Memories or Fragile Dreams? Limbo was all about style over substance.
Heavy Rain proves that if you present a "mature" story with human characters than gamers will think it's important. No, it's not. If the writing is bad then the rest of the game fails. Come on! Be realistic here! Stop being a apologetic.
Jim, you at least as arrogant as Cage. You're pissing on the same things since release and you only talk from Heavy Rain as it'd be only a movie.
Yeah, character development wasn't good, the plot had holes and the reveal of the killer was bullshit. If you see Heavy Rain as movie it's bad. But it's no movie, I can control the characters and I felt more immersed than in any other game. The graphics, the music and the decisions I can make kept me playing. Everybody I know completed the game and didn't get bored after 2 hours or something. From a game perspective it showed me that a game with such a concept can work even though it's just QTE.
But you also think that Enslaved is a masterpiece in storytelling so I can't take you really seriously. No idea what you really mean with the Silent Hill 2 reference. Mature themes? What? These exist in horror games for ages. Don't know what you mean by that.
Yeah, character development wasn't good, the plot had holes and the reveal of the killer was bullshit. If you see Heavy Rain as movie it's bad. But it's no movie, I can control the characters and I felt more immersed than in any other game. The graphics, the music and the decisions I can make kept me playing. Everybody I know completed the game and didn't get bored after 2 hours or something. From a game perspective it showed me that a game with such a concept can work even though it's just QTE.
But you also think that Enslaved is a masterpiece in storytelling so I can't take you really seriously. No idea what you really mean with the Silent Hill 2 reference. Mature themes? What? These exist in horror games for ages. Don't know what you mean by that.
I liked Heavy Rain well enough, and I'm looking forward to the next game from these guys that refines and tightens up the way the game is presented and played. This type of game will only get better with the utilization of motion controls like Move and Kinect. I'll agree though that this first crack at it wasn't the giant leap forward in gaming the guy thinks it was, but it's far from the disaster a lot of people around here make it out to be.
I am glad I do not agree with the majority here. : D In my eyes Heavy Rain was fantastic and something new, regardless of the voice acting or tiny little plot holes that take away NOTHING of the story.
@SKSith Mdub 2 = modern warfare 2
and you're right on the money, the story is not essentially the entire game :)
and you're right on the money, the story is not essentially the entire game :)
"Jim, Why must all your articles be negative? I really enjoy reading your stuff, but every article has to have some negative comments or scathing remarks."
Jim actually says what he's thinking - good or bad. If he sees a game he likes (Dynasty Warriors 7; Killzone 3), he says he likes it. If he hates it - he says he hates it. It's a breath of fresh air from a ton of other media outlets out there.
Here, let me write a few Kotaku opening sentences for any video game ever for you:
"You thought [x similar game] was awesome?! Wait til you see this one!"
"Despite a few minor flaws [that are never fleshed out in favor of shilling the game for more media coverage and exclusive grabbing], the game was GREAT! Get excited for it and preorder it now while I fly to Los Angeles on the developer's dime!"
In a world of shilled out big budget media outlet brown nosing, Jim is the guy you WANT to read if you really don't want to blow $240 a month on every single game that looks shiny.
Jim actually says what he's thinking - good or bad. If he sees a game he likes (Dynasty Warriors 7; Killzone 3), he says he likes it. If he hates it - he says he hates it. It's a breath of fresh air from a ton of other media outlets out there.
Here, let me write a few Kotaku opening sentences for any video game ever for you:
"You thought [x similar game] was awesome?! Wait til you see this one!"
"Despite a few minor flaws [that are never fleshed out in favor of shilling the game for more media coverage and exclusive grabbing], the game was GREAT! Get excited for it and preorder it now while I fly to Los Angeles on the developer's dime!"
In a world of shilled out big budget media outlet brown nosing, Jim is the guy you WANT to read if you really don't want to blow $240 a month on every single game that looks shiny.
@ SayWord
Dude, the story was stupid.
"tiny little plot holes"
Now you're just lying to yourself here.
Dude, the story was stupid.
"tiny little plot holes"
Now you're just lying to yourself here.
I don't get the Kanye reference. Kanye backs up his arrogance with great music that innovates music as a whole. David Cage is not the Kanye West of anything.
Heavy Rain is exactly what I don't want games to become. Weak, short-lived Hollywood wannabe franchises. I don't mind it as some sort of graphic novel, but it's as much of a game as Wii Fit.
You know what game made games a more meaningful medium? Tetris. All David Cage succeeded in doing was making a videogame that was one giant Internet meme.
The title of this article is "Cage: Heavy Rain made games a more meaningful medium."
But he doesn't say that at any point in the article in question, or in the quote that inspired this post. You've paraphrased, but you've paraphrased the quote in a way that has very little to do with the quote in question.
The quote that inspires this article, from the CVG story: "This game granted credibility and respect for the ideas that we believe in, and I am convinced that Heavy Rain has and will open doors to others to approach interactivity in different and more mature ways."
He's not saying that Heavy Rain has made gaming more meaningful. He doesn't even use the word meaningful in the quote. You elaborated on the quote, but you've seem to have lost the meaning of the original quote; that perhaps the moderate success of Heavy Rain will give developers the push to try and tackle more mature subject matter, in both story content and in gameplay. He doesn't talk at all about "meaning", and being mature vs. being meaningful are two different things.
This article feels like it was generated to make viewers and posters angry, rather than actually judging the words that actually came out of Cage's mouth. This is poor blogging.
But he doesn't say that at any point in the article in question, or in the quote that inspired this post. You've paraphrased, but you've paraphrased the quote in a way that has very little to do with the quote in question.
The quote that inspires this article, from the CVG story: "This game granted credibility and respect for the ideas that we believe in, and I am convinced that Heavy Rain has and will open doors to others to approach interactivity in different and more mature ways."
He's not saying that Heavy Rain has made gaming more meaningful. He doesn't even use the word meaningful in the quote. You elaborated on the quote, but you've seem to have lost the meaning of the original quote; that perhaps the moderate success of Heavy Rain will give developers the push to try and tackle more mature subject matter, in both story content and in gameplay. He doesn't talk at all about "meaning", and being mature vs. being meaningful are two different things.
This article feels like it was generated to make viewers and posters angry, rather than actually judging the words that actually came out of Cage's mouth. This is poor blogging.
"Jim, Why must all your articles be negative? I really enjoy reading your stuff, but every article has to have some negative comments or scathing remarks."
Total bullshit, mate.
Oh...would you look at that; someone who "has no ability to look critically" at what he does...
Total bullshit, mate.
Oh...would you look at that; someone who "has no ability to look critically" at what he does...
"Kanye backs up his arrogance with great music that innovates music as a whole."
I'm actually lol-ing now. Really, I am, but in all seriousness. Do you really believe that?
I'm actually lol-ing now. Really, I am, but in all seriousness. Do you really believe that?
What Drakengard said. Also the whole Shelby's the killer thing DOES make sense in terms of psychology as he doesn't consider himself a murderer.
Aside from that there ARE some gaping jumps of logic in the game, not so much plot holes (although there are a couple of niggly ones - the red herring involving Ethan for example) as bizarre leaps of understanding.
The most annoying part has to be when Madison gasps when told Shelby is the 'killer'. Ok, theoretically she may have heard about him 'investigating' the case since she's a reporter following the story - but this should at least be alluded to.
Regardless, screwy narrative aside, Cage is correct - it HAS brought more mature story driven games into the public eye. Whether Heavy Rain was good at what it did or not is neither here nor there.
That having been said Cage can be a bit of an arrogant twonk, but at least he's trying.
Aside from that there ARE some gaping jumps of logic in the game, not so much plot holes (although there are a couple of niggly ones - the red herring involving Ethan for example) as bizarre leaps of understanding.
The most annoying part has to be when Madison gasps when told Shelby is the 'killer'. Ok, theoretically she may have heard about him 'investigating' the case since she's a reporter following the story - but this should at least be alluded to.
Regardless, screwy narrative aside, Cage is correct - it HAS brought more mature story driven games into the public eye. Whether Heavy Rain was good at what it did or not is neither here nor there.
That having been said Cage can be a bit of an arrogant twonk, but at least he's trying.
"Jim, Why must all your articles be negative? I really enjoy reading your stuff, but every article has to have some negative comments or scathing remarks."
Total bullshit, mate.
Oh...would you look at that; someone who "has no ability to look critically" at what he does...
Total bullshit, mate.
Oh...would you look at that; someone who "has no ability to look critically" at what he does...
Not really. It was Indigo Prophecy with a facelift. Heavy Rain was cool, but it fucked up far too many times to mean so much to an entire industry. The voice acting was fucking atrocious. Indigo Prophecy's voice acting is head & shoulders above Heavy Rain's.
A pretty decent amount of gamers seem to understand how brilliant and ahead of its time Silent Hill 2 was, but it seems to get all but ignored in the press when it comes to sucking off games that are perceived as furthering the medium as an art form. Every single goddamn line in SH2 is a keeper. It came out ten years ago and no game has been able to touch its topics. Incest? Suicide? Repression? Sexual tension? The dark side of love? Remember when Mary helps James open the refrigerator/locker door and makes a comment about how he's supposed to be the big strong man? THAT was mature.
Heavy Rain grabbed my attention and kept a fucking strong hold in it through till the end.
It was a revolutionary game in a se of shooters and sequels.
I loved it and agree with Cage completely.
It sold pretty damn well too.
It was a revolutionary game in a se of shooters and sequels.
I loved it and agree with Cage completely.
It sold pretty damn well too.
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