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Bully debate: Teachers are ignorant edition photo

The debate over Bully: Scholarship Edition continues to rage as concerned teachers, still yet to actually play the game, continue to talk about it based merely off the title, while stating that we in the media and the games industry don't "get it" -- a most ironic statement coming from people who believe Bully is entirely about bullying people.

Mary-Lou Donnelly, head of the Nova Scotia Teachers Union wrote a little editorial in which she claimed that Bully "contributes nothing positive to youth culture," and "contradicts everything that educators are trying to accomplish." She also reminded us that bullying is never fun ... although maybe she needs to aim that at the dirty little unwashed cretinous children who seem to think otherwise (and don't need a game to encourage their nasty behavior).

Game developer Clint Hocking, however, approached the argument from a different and very admirable perspective, when he wrote:

"Since I haven’t even played Bully - and probably neither [have the teachers who are protesting it], I wonder if we even can contribute anything? Ought we enter into debate about public access to media that we have not even engaged ourselves? That seems unethical to me…

Instead, I am going to invite [the teachers] to examine it with me, and to enter into a critical discussion of its merits and the difficulties it may or may not pose to students and to teachers… I extend an open invitation to play Bully with me, and once we have all finished we can collectively engage in an informed dialogue about the merits or failings of the game."

Executive director of the International Game Developers Association, Jason Della Rocca also subscribes to Hocking's idea, claiming that "The teachers are missing a prime opportunity to make progress… I’d argue that teachers could have leveraged Bully to both better understand the social politics of high school (by embodying a troubled teen) and open a much needed dialog with students about bullying."

You'd think that teachers, of all people, would take the time to educate themselves before mouthing off. While I don't intend to own any kids, I'm not sure I'd want a hypothetical child of mine taught by these "educated" men and women.








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23 comments | showing # 1 to 23
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dtomek's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 08:48
dtomek
Why was this not an issue when the game came out on PS2?
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 08:49
Tubatic
Yes, play the damn game. I'm really interested in hearing what gaming opponents think after actually playing a game through to completion.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 08:51
Tubatic
Which reminds me: the final boss fight in that game was pretty epic.
Maurice Tan's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 08:55
Maurice Tan
Oh canadians, moose along now please.
Anus Mcphanus's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 08:58
Anus Mcphanus
@dtomek:
It was and in the UK Rockstar actually had to change the name of the game to Canis Canem Edit (the latin moto of Bullworth academy) for it to be released.

Finally the voice of reason speaks! It's good to see that there are some open minded intelligent individuals out there. I'm skeptical though that this will change the attitude opponents of Bully will have towards the game. Something tells me they will be biased against it not matter what.
glipe's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 09:10
glipe
Physician heal thyself, etc, etc.

Idiots are idiots no matter the profession or level. See GWB for details.
MaxVest's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 09:27
MaxVest
I think it's a tendency of human nature to prefer complaining about something over seeking answers. It seems more active, and other people can do it with you.
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 09:30
Holyetheline
@MaxVest

That's a great point. It also proves that people are generally lazy.
MaxVest's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 09:37
MaxVest
Either that, or they don't want curiosity doing to them what it did to that cat.
Kaspar's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 09:38
Kaspar
Common sense to the victory!
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 09:41
Holyetheline
My friends cat jumped in his drying machine when he was doing laundry. He didn't notice and went about turning the machine on just like any other laundry day. His cat died in there that day. So sad.
Velt's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 09:52
Velt
Teachers actually learning something... that would be news to me.
MaxVest's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 10:01
MaxVest
@Holyetheline: So it is true, what they say...
kohelhunter's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 10:08
kohelhunter
I love shit like this...we bitch and moan and complain about something we don't understand.. The game has been out for awile it didn't change the face of schools. everything remained normal. Its bullshit press like this that just adds to the rockstar fire and makes them laugh and make more money.CONGRGATS BITCHY TEACHERS YOU ARE MAKING ROCKSTAR MORE MONEY!
Rifter01's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 10:16
Rifter01
I haven't yet played Bully either.. However, from what I heard the game is about getting back at the bullies.. I dunno, but since being bullied myself in grade school, I'd consider a game that gets back at bullies somewhat therapeutic.

But seriously, if U asked me, (and I know U didn't) I think uninformed, ignorant teachers who don't know anything about their students lives, nor the goings on in their classroom half of the time and criticize games they've never played are the 'enabler' to bullying and bullies to begin with. A 'laissez faire' authority figure like a teacher, or any authority in denial about the real problems may just help to create the sort of environment that bullies thrive in. :oP
Gonzo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 10:43
Gonzo
Of course teachers, parents, and politicians are going to blame video games (and especially games by R* as they are most compelling) for all the juvenile delinquents (which seem to be shrinking in number along with gang violence incidents and drug abuse.
If they didn't blame games (like Bully, d&d, and back in the day they probably blamed chess), music (rap, metal, and back in the day-Jazz), or even books (everything from Harry Potter, Catcher in the Rye, and back in the day the crime comics) they would have to place the blame exactly where it belongs with themselves: the parents, teachers, and politicians.

As you can see we've been hearing this argument for ages and now it's really too transparent of a cop out to work any more.
dtomek's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 11:50
dtomek
@McPhanus - Thanks. I guess I (thankfully) missed it the first time around.

@Gonzo - I think the big difference now is that the end user gets a voice in the debate thanks to the internets. Back when D&D was turning perfectly functioning young minds into devil worshiping killers we had no voice...well especially considering I was just a pup. I remember when one of my childhood friends was barred from being my friend for my audacity in introducing some Magic the Gathering to him. Craziness.
afalker's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 11:53
afalker
Wow. This is almost an unheard of amount of common sense and willingness to do something positive and not just bitch about stuff. Kudos all around!
HarassmentPanda's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 12:01
HarassmentPanda
I wonder if even letting teachers play Bully will be enough. I, admittedly, have not played the game, but if any positive message is buried within the game's narrative that may not be enough. We unfortunately have had to deal with a culture that needs to be bashed over the head with a heavy-handed message to "get it" for many years. All subtlety and artistic merit is usually lost or overlooked--hell, The Catcher in the Rye was banned from schools for how long? And how about Huck Finn?
Kyousuke Nanbu's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 12:47
Kyousuke Nanbu
I'm at chapter 5 in the game, currently at 71%.

The game is not about bullying at all, its about going against them, Jimmy even talks to the administration and they chalk it up to school spirit. So Jimmy takes does what he must to survive, he bullies the bullies and gets back at them.

Hell in Bully there are consequences, more than I can say for real life at times.
mistic's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 13:44
mistic
hail Clint Hocking!
kawitchate's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/13/2008 15:48
kawitchate
"While I don't intend to own any kids..."
speak for yourself sir! child slavery FTW!
FormerAcorn's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/20/2009 13:56
FormerAcorn
@kawitchate: He did speak for himself, hence "I".

Anywho, silly controversy.
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