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For real MCChampaignMillionaire... whats (sic) wrong with you? This has everything to do with the Holocaust!
It's such a close minded thing to being up the holocaust as a reason for the censorship in Germany.
It pisses in the face of the intelligent german destructoid users who have posted thoughtful pieces about the topic.
Do we blame Americas fear of sexual content on national guilt caused by pillaging the land from the natives?
Of course not. Germany censors graphical violence in games, that's their deal. It's not like they are depriving their youth of oxygen and there's ways around the whole thing anyway.
I love destructoid but the ignorance on display in that one line sours shit for me.
It pisses in the face of the intelligent german destructoid users who have posted thoughtful pieces about the topic.
Do we blame Americas fear of sexual content on national guilt caused by pillaging the land from the natives?
Of course not. Germany censors graphical violence in games, that's their deal. It's not like they are depriving their youth of oxygen and there's ways around the whole thing anyway.
I love destructoid but the ignorance on display in that one line sours shit for me.
Bulletstorm Germany Edition
"Hurt bad people with skill"
Perform such crazy moves as "Gang Disruption" "Cant quite swallow" "Airplane Love" "Open the Back Door"
"Hurt bad people with skill"
Perform such crazy moves as "Gang Disruption" "Cant quite swallow" "Airplane Love" "Open the Back Door"
Germany is trying to overcome it's Nazi history by acting like Nazi's.
This is either incredibly stupid, or the best idea ever.
This is either incredibly stupid, or the best idea ever.
@MCChampaigmillionaire - not directly, but it does have to do with the german government's rampant censorship which has been around since the holocaust and for at least part, because of the holocaust
@Bakewell - is the holocaust a direct cause of censorship? no way in hell could someone rightly make that claim. Has the holocaust greatly impacted the way the German government operates? you bet your ass it has
Most Germans I know import the PC version of a violent games due to the whole region free thing but after a lot of stumbling Epic & PCF had with that version, promoting it and this predictable news I would not expect much sales in the region.
@whitezombie
Agreed but when I read jims comment....
"Censoring videogames will not erase the Holocaust from history."
.....I see ignorance and a lack of respect for a nation that, rightly or wrongly, is trying to protect it's children form what it perceives a bad.
Agreed but when I read jims comment....
"Censoring videogames will not erase the Holocaust from history."
.....I see ignorance and a lack of respect for a nation that, rightly or wrongly, is trying to protect it's children form what it perceives a bad.
I feel bad for Germans. It will be a long, long time until the country can move beyond the atrocities of Hitler.
Hey Destructoid, maybe you can keep this article on hand and just add every new game title released in Germany to it when its announced. Do we really need a new article every time a game is censored for German (or Australian, for that matter) audiences?
Maybe just keep running tab and call it a day.
Maybe just keep running tab and call it a day.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not very fond of the cuts, either. If the over the top violence really is a major selling point for Bulletstorm, they should have handled it like Sega with MadWorld and just don't release it over here. Those who are interested in the game will import it either way.
Or maybe that's the plan... Having a strictly limited run of the German version so that they can promote this game over here and nudge customers towards the uncut versions...
*nitpick mode on*
However, please blame the right people. The USK (Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle) merely rates games going by a catalogue of various criteria. They don't actively censor it. And they only rate the version publishers actually send in. Of course, you may call it "passive censoring" since the cuts are made in order to get the game an age rating over here in Germany and therefore be able to promote it.
Also, the USK can not ban the game. That's the job of the BPjM (Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien). And even then they only do it when someone sends in a proper application and explanation for why this game is banworthy. Until that happens, they won't ban it. Though given the fact that EA apparantly wants to distribute the uncut version here as well - at least as long as they can - it should sadly be only a matter of time...
*nitpick mode off*
Or maybe that's the plan... Having a strictly limited run of the German version so that they can promote this game over here and nudge customers towards the uncut versions...
*nitpick mode on*
However, please blame the right people. The USK (Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle) merely rates games going by a catalogue of various criteria. They don't actively censor it. And they only rate the version publishers actually send in. Of course, you may call it "passive censoring" since the cuts are made in order to get the game an age rating over here in Germany and therefore be able to promote it.
Also, the USK can not ban the game. That's the job of the BPjM (Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien). And even then they only do it when someone sends in a proper application and explanation for why this game is banworthy. Until that happens, they won't ban it. Though given the fact that EA apparantly wants to distribute the uncut version here as well - at least as long as they can - it should sadly be only a matter of time...
*nitpick mode off*
@Bakewell
Children? I think you're forgetting this game isn't meant for children. That's why we have ratings, to protect children from accessing the game. Parents can step up and stop children from buying and playing the game, through parental controls or good-ol-fashioned parenting. Censoring the game just makes the country look ignorant and close minded and eager to strip down anything they don't agree with as a country. They censor shit just because they think it's bad, and that's censoring freedom of expression, which is pretty much what the holocaust involved, which is exactly why this comparison is made.
Children? I think you're forgetting this game isn't meant for children. That's why we have ratings, to protect children from accessing the game. Parents can step up and stop children from buying and playing the game, through parental controls or good-ol-fashioned parenting. Censoring the game just makes the country look ignorant and close minded and eager to strip down anything they don't agree with as a country. They censor shit just because they think it's bad, and that's censoring freedom of expression, which is pretty much what the holocaust involved, which is exactly why this comparison is made.
Are the skill shots still called "Gang Bang" and "Topless"? Or whatever those names are translated in german? Then its not Fox News approved.
Because we now know blood and dismemeberment are not the problem, but the "references to sexual content" that are destroying our society and causing thousands of rapes everyday...
Because we now know blood and dismemeberment are not the problem, but the "references to sexual content" that are destroying our society and causing thousands of rapes everyday...
@renegade panda
Your rant would make perfect sense if you assume the censors aren't aware of the fact that people buy violent games for their children.
Also. The hollocaust wasnt about removing freedom of speach it was about removing a certain section of mankind not because of what they had to say but because they were viewed as inferior.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for parents taking control of their children but we all know that parents will buy their kids any game they ask for.
Your rant would make perfect sense if you assume the censors aren't aware of the fact that people buy violent games for their children.
Also. The hollocaust wasnt about removing freedom of speach it was about removing a certain section of mankind not because of what they had to say but because they were viewed as inferior.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for parents taking control of their children but we all know that parents will buy their kids any game they ask for.
@Bakewell
And they were viewed as inferior because in part of their religion, which is an expression, which they censored. Everything they viewed as inferior was in some way an act of expression aside from the physical feature issue. The short version is they did in fact censor multiple forms of expression from a variety of groups.
And on the topic of people buying violent games for children, explain to me why the government should be involved in that matter? That should be a matter of parenting, and if the parents want to buy a game like that for their child, it should be their right to do so. Unless Germany has some radical study showing direct links to young kids committing violent acts and video games, they should stay out of it.
Is Germany made up of irresponsible nitwits who need the government to tell them what to do? For fucks sake, even the US isn't that bad. Personal responsibility should come before all this, but you seen to think otherwise.
And they were viewed as inferior because in part of their religion, which is an expression, which they censored. Everything they viewed as inferior was in some way an act of expression aside from the physical feature issue. The short version is they did in fact censor multiple forms of expression from a variety of groups.
And on the topic of people buying violent games for children, explain to me why the government should be involved in that matter? That should be a matter of parenting, and if the parents want to buy a game like that for their child, it should be their right to do so. Unless Germany has some radical study showing direct links to young kids committing violent acts and video games, they should stay out of it.
Is Germany made up of irresponsible nitwits who need the government to tell them what to do? For fucks sake, even the US isn't that bad. Personal responsibility should come before all this, but you seen to think otherwise.
Yeah I will stop.
Actually thinking about something and trying to have a balanced opinion won't work here.
What works is going "yeah jim you're soo right" or "freedom of speach rah rah rah"
I genuinely thought I was having some form of discussion on the Internet for a second. Silly me.
Actually thinking about something and trying to have a balanced opinion won't work here.
What works is going "yeah jim you're soo right" or "freedom of speach rah rah rah"
I genuinely thought I was having some form of discussion on the Internet for a second. Silly me.
bakewell, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech, or jim sterling. It has to do with your overall lack of knowledge on the subject at hand. Argue all you want, I'm just suggesting you stop because you're starting to look pretty ridiculous in the claims you're making.
@renegade
I don't know where you got the idea I think people shouldn't be responsible for themselves.
Parents buy games for their children that they shouldn't be playing. Admitting that fact is not the same as saying the governemt must control the populace.
I'm a parent myself. I take full responsibility for my actions and those if my child
I don't agree with governments decision making, I was merely speculating that that may be the cause of the censorship as apposed to trying to remove the holocaust from history (as jim suggested)
I have tried to be reasonable and explain this to avoid misinterpretation but there has obviously been a misunderstanding and a little presumption on your behalf. I sincerely hope that I have made myself a little clearer.
I don't know where you got the idea I think people shouldn't be responsible for themselves.
Parents buy games for their children that they shouldn't be playing. Admitting that fact is not the same as saying the governemt must control the populace.
I'm a parent myself. I take full responsibility for my actions and those if my child
I don't agree with governments decision making, I was merely speculating that that may be the cause of the censorship as apposed to trying to remove the holocaust from history (as jim suggested)
I have tried to be reasonable and explain this to avoid misinterpretation but there has obviously been a misunderstanding and a little presumption on your behalf. I sincerely hope that I have made myself a little clearer.
@Bakewell I just don't see how you can defend censorship here. Just because kids 'might' buy a game made for adults doesn't mean the government has a right to step in and censor the expression of People Can Fly. I don't think there is a 'balanced' view here, unless you can prove that Bulletstorm will harm kids in any way. Censorship just generally sucks for everyone involved.
For all of you really interested in how games are rated and censored in Germany and what censorship means for industry and gamers in general. I wrote a blog post about that from an insiders point of view.
Perhaps Jim should also slightly acquaint himself with the topics he comments on before posting ignorant garbage like this on every occasion.
Perhaps Jim should also slightly acquaint himself with the topics he comments on before posting ignorant garbage like this on every occasion.
@Bakewell Ahh nevermind I see you were specifically speaking in regard to the Holocaust as being the prime reason for censorship.
@Bakewell
I'm sorry but I still don't see your stance, you're essentially saying that parents should take responsibility while abandoning it in favor of the government. If a parent buys their 5 year old game and is responsible enough to teach them right and wrong, real and fantasy, the kid will most likely grow up to be a normal, functioning member of society. I agree that is happens, but now you're trying to defend censorship of this game by saying the government shouldn't control content (which is exactly what it is doing).
So which is it? Censor the game so kids don't play it (controlling the population, to an extent) or let parents decide (parental responsibility)? It can't really be both here.
I'm sorry but I still don't see your stance, you're essentially saying that parents should take responsibility while abandoning it in favor of the government. If a parent buys their 5 year old game and is responsible enough to teach them right and wrong, real and fantasy, the kid will most likely grow up to be a normal, functioning member of society. I agree that is happens, but now you're trying to defend censorship of this game by saying the government shouldn't control content (which is exactly what it is doing).
So which is it? Censor the game so kids don't play it (controlling the population, to an extent) or let parents decide (parental responsibility)? It can't really be both here.
@crunchy
I abhor government led censorship. My posts have been purely speculative with regards to the reason behind said censorship because I refuse to believe the guys in charge of said censorship think they can change the past by removing gore from a computer game.
That is my view on this article.
Perhaps it's the way I write that has led some to believe I support censorship but I can categorically say I do not support censorship.
I abhor government led censorship. My posts have been purely speculative with regards to the reason behind said censorship because I refuse to believe the guys in charge of said censorship think they can change the past by removing gore from a computer game.
That is my view on this article.
Perhaps it's the way I write that has led some to believe I support censorship but I can categorically say I do not support censorship.
@Bakewell
Don't try to reason. They're not really interested in understanding why this doesn't exactly qualify as censorship or why EA's handling of this matter is unbelievably immature (especially if you look at what they claimed towards FOX, namely that they respect e.g. the ESRB). They just want to shout "FREEDOM !" . It's not like there's any similar form of self-censorship in America when it comes e.g. to nudity. Oh wait...
Again while there is censorship in Germany, this isn't. It's like saying The Witcher was originally censored in the US because they removed the nudity pictures (and later put it back in).
As for EA: Distributing the unrated version in Germany sounds incredibly stupid to me and could be a PR desaster (though they really don't seem to give a shit about that) and maybe even have legal consequences. It's just not very "mature" behaviour.
Don't try to reason. They're not really interested in understanding why this doesn't exactly qualify as censorship or why EA's handling of this matter is unbelievably immature (especially if you look at what they claimed towards FOX, namely that they respect e.g. the ESRB). They just want to shout "FREEDOM !" . It's not like there's any similar form of self-censorship in America when it comes e.g. to nudity. Oh wait...
Again while there is censorship in Germany, this isn't. It's like saying The Witcher was originally censored in the US because they removed the nudity pictures (and later put it back in).
As for EA: Distributing the unrated version in Germany sounds incredibly stupid to me and could be a PR desaster (though they really don't seem to give a shit about that) and maybe even have legal consequences. It's just not very "mature" behaviour.
Yeah, that Germany's cutting very hard is well-known, especially for me, who is from Germany. But mentioning the holocaust for the 68th time is a bit unnecessary. Though I agree with you, that this cutting is unnecessary as well.
@Salvathras I'm curious...how exactly does this not qualify as censorship? I mean they are 'censoring' things that were originally part of the artists intent. I won't try to pretend I know why they are doing it as I don't live in Germany, but isn't it still censorship regardless of the reasons?
@Crunchy Shagohad
First, let me say that our system sucks. Horribly.
Second, unless the BPjM is involved - considering this game already got the highest rating the USK can give a game - I'm not gonna consider self-censorship censorship, especially since EA is apparently trying to trick the system by distributing an unrated version.
First, let me say that our system sucks. Horribly.
Second, unless the BPjM is involved - considering this game already got the highest rating the USK can give a game - I'm not gonna consider self-censorship censorship, especially since EA is apparently trying to trick the system by distributing an unrated version.
Alas, why is it that the same country that gave us Nazis gives us censorship? Being educative assholes isn't going to work as an apology for being the home of sadistic assholes. In the end, you will always have assholes in the closet!
lol, germans use to be nazis and now they cant handle violent interactive videos. what a fall from grace.
Woah, are you a little crazy? Sick of reading a thousand times that we're all Nazis. Germany made an incredible fault. But to remember you: Adolf Hitler is dead. Dictatorship in Germany is...almost dead. Don't think, this will be of any interest to someone so see ya all in 2050, calling me a Nazi... If glorious Nazi Germany hasn't conquered the world at that point.
Yes, people can just import the game from another EU country under EU regulations the German government could not prevent that, although it can surely try and hide its head under the sand like it's been doing about PEGI standards for a while. To me, the entire Index/18+ regulation in Germany is utterly abominable, on the general principle, that the German state is telling people who have legally come of age what they should or should not watch or play, in spite of it occurring in situations that have absolutely no impact on any other person's rights, safety or moral standing. This also ensures (as I'm quite sure most Americans will be aware of, having had protectionism and alcohol bans) that those who really have psychiatric problems will be even more enticed to get the forbidden stuff, and be even more affected by it due to guilt-satisfaction psychological mechanisms.
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