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Building a better RPG: Part I photo

Now's the time in the crazy wedding party in my mind where, after a few frenetic, sweaty rounds of the puff-sleeve Macarena, the DJ gets on the mic and says, "Okay. Let's bring it down now, let's slow it down for a bit."  He means the music's about to get serious, and so am I. So grab your sweetheart, your grandpa, or your sexy underage cousin, and groove to this.

Nobody wants to play 60-hour console RPGs anymore.

So we hear quite often these days, and many of us even say as much ourselves. Yet I don’t think that’s quite correct -- the truth is, nobody wants to play the same console RPG anymore. It’s generally recognized that, while most games continue to grow beyond the boundaries of genre, employing (or, just experimenting with) new technology and the maturation of a sophisticated audience, RPGs are still far from a perfect science. It’s a genre that once inspired legions of gamers to near-thoughtless devotion—and now draws ire from its once solidly-ensconced core fanbase for its perpetual stagnation. Because the RPG experience is comprised of so many correlated elements, it can be hard to identify precisely where these games continue to fall short; this series will attempt to pinpoint the weak spots in the structural integrity of role-playing games. Hit the jump to read the first installment!

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One of the big draws with an RPG is that you step outside yourself, into a new world -- preferably with breathtaking vistas and magical periphery that defies the laws of physics as they stand in our world. Perhaps it’s the fact that RPGs continue to innovate and impress in the environmental department that helps its audience maintain some semblance of loyalty -- if nothing else, it’s always a transporting experience, at least until the luster of novelty wears off and the issues set in.

More important than stepping into a new world, though, is viewing it through new eyes. A world is only as rich as its population; any story is only as good as its characters.

In the earlier days of RPGs, it wasn’t generally common to have literary-level characterization; the technology simply didn’t permit fine strokes of expression in sixteen-bit sprites, and the amount of dialogue required to fill in the conceptual spaces would render gameplay to an afterthought. Back then, it was simply enough to see a character, know his name -- and know it was “you”, and that your two or three companions were his friends. The villain was simply whomever you were at odds with, and while there was generally some expository interaction or brief exchanges to explicate the conflict, it never got elaborate, relegated mostly to the arena of comfortable archetypes.

Perhaps it’s the rosy lens of retro-nostalgia talking, but it almost seemed better in those days; with few details constraining the player’s imagination, “mage” “fighter” and “bard” became our own personal creations. Their nature, their stories, and often even their names were entirely our jurisdiction. Rough-hewn, unsophisticated dungeons were more like skeletons for self-generated visualizations, and less like the featureless winding caves or endless castle chipset they were originally rendered to be.

The world of the modern RPG is drawn with every detail intact, every speck of dust that sparkles in a sunbeam, every thread of mist wound around graceful arches and spires. The characters have every lash, freckle and stray hair painted in stunning clarity. And similarly, their stories are fully drawn, too. With very little for the player to “do” in terms of filling in their own ideas, the standard ratchets up—and here’s one of the key areas RPGs fall short.

Fantasy archetypes are inescapable in RPGs -- the surly one, the nobleman, the lighthearted comic relief, the strong silent type, riddled with angst. But even though technology has fleshed out what was once a basic formula, adding lifelike details and the full cinema experience, it hasn’t advanced the formula in any way. There really is yet to be a modern role-playing game where the character is someone we can empathize with and care for in an enduring way. We’re still being asked to devote hours and hours to people who, despite how intricate they look, are little more than constructs -- making it even more ridiculous when they behave in their trademark histrionic, overemotional fashion. The emotional moment -- prime territory of RPGs -- is little more than a joke now.

The archetypical job or class system structure of the core RPG battle system necessitates that your hero can’t make it to the end of the story alone. One of the things we expect when we play a game like this is that we will, at some point, if not immediately, acquire a comrade, begin developing a party, adding more skills, spells and strengths to our fighting lineup as we go. And we’ve had some interesting ones; for quite some time, the basic universal specialty list’s been abandoned in favor of fighting and leveling systems unique to each character.

So when the monsters come, everyone has a different job to do—but what about the time in between? The essential character flaw of RPGs extends to the party members, too -- how many times, in recent years, have you found yourself asking, “what are all these people doing here?” Without supporting character stories or any kind of plausible bond between them, you’re essentially hauling a ragtag band of muscle-for-hire around the world, ignoring the party members who are useless to your battle style -- only to be stunned when, worlds later, they suddenly emerge again, essential to the storyline. And you’re supposed to care?

The characters may be rendered in three dimensions visually, but when they’re 2-D as people, nobody wants to donate massive chunks of time to their well-being, to the resolution of their goals. Perhaps there are other game elements that keep us involved -- fans enjoy battles, or treasure hunting -- but in those cases, the characters themselves become the object of resentment, an afterthought. The essential connection between the game and the player isn’t made; the experience is lacking.

For more, check out Bennett’s review of FFXII at ActionButton.net. No relation to Colette, unless it's some secret evil uncle we don't know about. While there are a few ActionButton reviews I’m not so sure I agree with, I have to credit its review of FFXII for hitting the nail on the head, in its roundabout way. How could a game so “perfect in every way” leave one with such an empty feeling? That connection with the main character was missing.

Gamers don’t want story. It’s the mantra we’ve gotten used to hearing recently. But I’m inclined to think all this anti-story backlash is rooted in the total absence of realistic, believable player characters and companions in RPGs. True, we play for the action, for the events -- but if that were all we wanted, we’d just play an action game. The fact is, story becomes nothing but an inconvenience when its characters are meaningless to us—and perhaps we hate it all the more for the disappointment.







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41 comments | showing # 1 to 41
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Garbz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:07
Garbz
Another awesome article Leigh!

Personally i couldn't agree more. IMO FFVII was the last Final Fantasy where you could truly care for the characters. Sure FFX had Tidus and whatever but i didn't care for any of the characters in the same way i did for Cloud, Aeris, Tifa etc in FFVII.

If i'm honest, the last decent RPG i played was Golden Sun 1 on the GBA.

It wasn't too long, it looked great for a GBA game, it was fun and i loved the storyline and the characters i was playing as.

Plus it's easier to love four characters than 12 or 13.

Unfortunately the second Golden Sun (while being just as good, if not better) turned everything on its ass and shoved my beloved party of four into obscurity for 3/4 of the game and lumped me with 4 new characters and told me to love them.

And it screwed up the storyline a bit. Not a lot, but enough to annoy me a bit.

I know everyone bitches and whines that FFVII is overhyped and whatever but i consider it to be the last RPG with decent characterisation.

Anywho, great article. Keep them coming! :D
Snaileb 's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:08
Snaileb
Nobody wants to play a 60 hour RPG? WTF?

And isn't it ironic that the article you put that quote in would probably take an hour to read? (I never finished 1st grade)

I really did enjoy it, but I must say not all of your points I can't really agree with.

Meh, to each his own. Or her own. BEWBS!
BFeld13's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:09
BFeld13
I think the best RPG stories are the ones that don't revolve around your character, but the characters around them. If I feel like my character's actions are being controlled too much by the story, it would not be an RPG for me. I think that the way Oblivion gave you a small backstory and then let you encounter much more detailed NPCs was a perfect way to create a world that was completely open-ended.
BlindsideDork's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:13
BlindsideDork
I will play one that long if it is GOOD.

Like I loved Golden Sun 1 & 2 which totals up to at least 80 hours (about 40 a piece) on a GBA! Final Fantasy VII on the other hand...no thank you.
Rockvillian's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:13
Rockvillian
I just want an RPG that doesn't feel like battle chess.

Let me find a sword.

Let me kill with sword any way I want.

Let me upgrade sword at blacksmith.

Grab helmet too.

Oh damn helmet looks ugly, maybe seamstress can add tassles.

THERE we go.
Racoon's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:18
Racoon
Well written, you are right of course about how characters in RPG's are, while existing in shiny, bump-mapped, 3D goodness, are essentially two dimensional characters when it comes to personality, character growth, backstory, etc.

However it's not really suprising when you look at it from a storytelling standpoint. I personally have trouble finding books that have well developed characters that I can ponder, worry and care about from the beginning to the end. Now take that to a game telling standpoint and its infinitely harder to reproduce the same feelings.

When you lack the constraints to guide a character on a very finely set path, by essentially giving him some choice in the story thats being fleshed out all around him, coming up with dramatic moments that are relevant while being at the same time believable is a terribly difficult task.

No player wants to have the control ripped from him for the sake of some dramatic moment or another; where as in a novel it is perfectly acceptable for a main character to come up against his enemy and to fail miserably, be beaten down and disgraced for the sake of a good plot, in a game this situation would be infuriating. The player doesn't want to be forced into losing an encounter, understandably so even.

So perhaps it is the freedom of choice, even in strictly linear RPG's, that makes bringing characters to life so difficult. Just my two cents.
BlindsideDork's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:19
BlindsideDork
I want fun!
Das Inchworm's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:21
Das Inchworm
I WANNA PLAY A 60+ HOUR RPG!!!...den iz gets my muniez wurf.
Mizar's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:21
Mizar
I think this is the reason why I never really liked any of the real RPGs (Phantasy Star Online and Zelda don't count, apparently) that I've played; I don't care about any of the characters. This is save for one, though. Final Fantasy XI, despite being an MMO, has a much more engaging story to me. Your character is completely what you make of him/her. They never speak and don't have any defined backstory other than their race and job. And like BFeld13 mentioned, the greatness of the story comes from all the characters around you. With that game I was giddy with excitement for what the next cut scene held. Where as with a game like FFX, I just wondered if Tidus would go into a coma and the game would let me play as Wakka for the remainder of the game so i had something fun to look at.

The more an RPG allows the us to 'create' our charcters and let us feel connected with them at the same time, the better.
RICHARD BLOCKER's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:37
RICHARD BLOCKER
You wanta Character that you can fall in love with? You want the perfect hero for an RPG? Two words. "Chopper Dave"
relik's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:41
relik
I spent 150 hours on Oblivion (inc Shivering Isles) and it was quite the joyful experience.
Papapishu's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:44
Papapishu
I keep hearing that from a lot of people: that the Characters in the story of FFXII were lacking and that somehow it made people feel "Empty". Even though it's a valid opinion to hold, I think what people feel is missing is the "Role fufillment" of a strong central protagonist that you would get in games like FFVII and Halo. To me though, the characters seem a lot more human and grouded, and you don't get any of that strange, twin peaksish "Zidanne is from an Alternate dimension"/"You're really the dream of a dead city" Japanese horseshit that Square has been shoveling out to the gaming public ever since they decided to build a golden altar to Tetsuya Nomura and his wonderfully quaffed hair.

To me so much of what you are talking about in terms of breaking the mold seems to be EMBODIED by FFXII: It takes away a lot of the tedium of the games that came before it and decides to make a system that allows for casual play. It essentially creates an offline MMO like Oblivion does and fills the world with a series of quests that make the world feel cohesive. It meets the player halfway, doesn't treat them like a child, and realizes that they have a life outside of the game.

Look at how much time people, NORMAL people mind you, dump into games like World of Warcraft and tell me that people don't want a 60 hour RPG anymore.
Philonious's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 12:47
Philonious
I see where you're coming from but two things need to qualify your article. First, you seem to be focussed on Japanese RPGs more than RPGs in general. Second, and more importantly, your criticisms can be levied toward pretty much every game ever conceived. Games with strong narratives are few and far between, and those that are lauded for their narratives are usually just good "for a game" and not good in general. Part of the problem is that the narrative structure of JRPGs is that they have traditionally Japanese narrative structures which don't necessarily work for Western audiences.
galagabug 's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 13:02
galagabug
i think the RPG is destined to go the way of text based/point and click adventure games.

taking away real time battles allowed the rpgs of past generations to display much prettier visuals than its real time counterparts. i think it was the superiority of the visuals in this genre that enabled it to draw such a large following.

its a dated play mechanic, and its not fun. leveling up is not fun. random battles are not cool. the whole genre turned itself into a giant cliche, and it will become a niche genre, like the other oversaturated genres (shmups, fighters).

in time, it may reinvent itself. but honestly, i'm sick and tired of androdgenous heros and friends out to protect their town from a great evil and possibly save the girl.
BigPopaGamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 13:02
BigPopaGamer
I for one grew up on the old SNES RPG's, Chrono Trigger, FFVI, Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy Tactics(the best I have ever played) even Super Mario RPG. The thing about each of those games that while the stories were simple and the characters couldn't express nearly the range of animation that current RPG's can, they connected with the gamer. I tried to like FFVII, I really did, but I was in no way enthralled by it like so many others are.

Playing an RPG brings back memories of playing Chrono Trigger and thinking how awesome some of those dual attacks would look in real life; watching Kefka destroy an entire city just cuz he's crazy; sympathizing with the death of the protagonists' parents in Secret of Mana. And these were 16 bit sprites! Yet my imagination took over where the graphics failed. The holes in the storylines were filled by my 13 year old mind.

Many of the RPG's today take that away from the gamer by those very same graphics that we love in any other game. But in an RPG, half of the world should be the one they create and show you and half should be the one in your mind. Now, when I try out the new RPG's, I feel like I am watching a movie, with a little gaming in between.
Artadius's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 13:03
Artadius
Traditional RPGs ftw. FFXII was abhorrent. I've said it before here...but I'll say it again. I shouldn't have to feel pressured to complete an RPG just because of the time I've already invested in it. If that's the only remaining thing pushing me forward, it's failed in some way. Collette's review was spot on as well. I only ever used a summon once (the time you HAVE to in order to move the plot forward) and probably casted a Black Magic spell of some kind MAYBE enough times to count on two hands. WTF?

I've disliked the core Final Fantasy games more and more every since VI...and XII was probably the last straw for me. XIII looks like utter garbage so far... and even though I know it's too soon to pass judgment, because of my recent experiences with the series... why should I hold ANY hope for it at all?

Like I said, Traditional style RPGs are where I really get my enjoyment. In fact, I'll plug my blog: Blogging Dragon Quest for anyone interested in my current TRPG obsession.

Thanks for the article. It was a great read.
Philonious's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 13:04
Philonious
Cool. But again the Japanese thing applies to characters as well. We love our Kratos', Master Chiefs and Marcus Fenixes. We love our burly man tough guys, whereas as the Japanese like their comming of age girlie men. Han Solo vs. Luke Skywalker. And no one like Luke more than Han. I'd wager most people's favorite FFX character was Auron. Why? Because he is what we expect from our heroes. Part of the problem is that these games fail to provide us with characters we are used to... The problem isn't that the heroes are stereotypical, but that they are stereotypically Japanese.

(And there are more RPGs than MMOs and JRPGS... Just ask Bioware.)
Milhouse's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 13:06
Milhouse
Saying "Nobody wants to play 60-hour RPGs anymore" was quite bold... I have over 180 hours in Oblivion and I am not done yet. And I think I am someone. And that I am not alone. There must be a game for everyone. Some see RPGs as a way to see a magical story. Go check everywhere for people who praise Final Fantasy VII's story as the best thing since sliced bread. Personally, these kinds of stories don't really get me. And I hate the Japanese style of super cute, super perfect characters.

There aren't many companies wanting to take the risk to push the genre elsewhere. There's a market for every RPGamer. Here's a list of some elements that I'd like to see in a RPG:

-Story either centered on the character's evolution (see Planescape Torment) or where the character become the central point of a much greater plot (Shadowrun for Genesis)
-Consequences to your actions (Fallout)
-Special achievements to get or to collect (LOTRO)
-Free-roaming (Oblivion)
Artadius's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 13:06
Artadius
BigPopaGamer: Ever played Xenosaga? A movie with bits of game sprinkled here and there is exactly what that is. That's when I knew things were going downhill.
deadknight's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 13:08
deadknight
I often ask myself why is it that 10 years later, Final Fantasy 6, and other SNES rpgs can still provide compelling playing experiences that are satisfying and FFXII is a technical masterpiece that is utterly soulless. I'm not quite sure it's about story or characters, but it's something much more about the heart of the game, or it's to say that most modern games are utterly heartless. How many multi million dollar Hollywood movies have really made you fall in love with them compared to those low budget indie flicks?

Squaresoft is no longer a small second party developer, they are a huge publisher and they pump out the games for one reason, to make the big bucks. By contrast take Clover, a small studio that developed a few titles, and one of them was the most amazing game I've played in a decade, Okami. Not the most fleshed out story or characters, but an vibrant world that I actually cared about, I wanted to feed all those bunnies and birds and get their praise! The game was alive in a way that any compelling artistic creation should seek to be.

Why are RPGs broken? They focus too much on all the elements, characters, story, graphics, gameplay systems, and totally forget the underlying concept and theme that underlies the game. We get all the pieces stitched together instead of an organic outgrowth. Final Fantasy at about 7 or 8 changed from being that creative organic product and became mere spectacle and entertainment.
Bethla Garrison's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 14:02
Bethla Garrison
Count me out of "nobody."

I would still rather play a good 60+ hour RPG than pretty much anything.
Ratcliff's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 14:07
Ratcliff
I gotta agree with Philonious, I don't think hours matter if an rpg can make it worth my while. And I 100% agree with the contrast between american heroes and Jap Heros, I have always thought that the reason FFVII was so great was it was that it was Japanese art and storytelling with (IMO) the most badass main character in a FF game, I mean Cloud was an ex-super soldier turned rebel as opposed to Titus, who was the whiny star of a sport that resembles water polo
Garbz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 14:14
Garbz
@Ratcliff:

Cloud was never a super soldier. That was point of his character.

He was a failure and adopted Zacks persona upon his death to make himself seem more badass.

Then all that crap happened that made him part of Jenova or whatever.

I dunno, i might be wrong. It's been so long since i've played and understood FFVII.

You might be right come to think of it.
BlindsideDork's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 14:18
BlindsideDork
I think this article has the longest posts by the community ever!
BigPopaGamer's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 14:26
BigPopaGamer
Artadius: No I have never played Xenosaga, but I did play about 10 hours worth of Xenogears and turned it off after I realized how many times I was probably going to have to fight with the robots. That fighting system just pissed me off, not to mention the story made no sense.
Garbz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 14:47
Garbz
@Leigh:

I think a good example of a mega-RPG is Oblivion.

Sure it doesn't include party members but its a damn good RPG.

Or did you mean that you want us to say what we think makes a good mega-RPG? O_o
Garbz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 16:05
Garbz
Hmmz....ok.

Well for me, the most enjoyable RPG's are the ones where you have a small party of no more than 6 people. Maybe 8 maximum.

The reason for this is i like to have sidequests to do for my party members which builds on their characters etc.

That and i find it easier to manage a smaller party as i can keep them all around the same levels and none of them get left behind because i forget about them or because i just don't like them.

Lots of towns is also nice. One of the things i like most about an RPG is when i run across a random town that doesn't have any connection to any quest or plot but still offers me new items or weapons etc.

Worthwile sidequests are always nice too. All too often i'll give up a few hours to do a sidequest only to get a crappy item that i'll just go and flog later on. If i'm going to do a sidequest, it needs to be worthwhile.

I'm still divided on whether or not i want my main character to speak in a game though. I definately think party members and NPC's should be voice acted but i dunno whether i prefer choosing text (like in KOTOR) or whether i like my character talking for himself (Tidus in FFX).

That's all i can think of at the moment. I'm sure others will be able to think up other stuff though.

Oh, and as a final thought, i personally prefer turn based RPG's. I like being able to take my time choosing what me and my party are going to do as opposed to being on a timer to make my move.

But that's just me though.
Kia's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 16:39
Kia
As soon as I read that "No one wants a sixty hour rpg" line I found it very straining to read the rest of this article.

It's as if you had a huge bias towards RPGs as a whole from the word go.

I certainly would much rather play a long rpg, including just about any released today, rather than pick up some $60 disc that I'm done with in 10 hours.

Heck, I've just logged my 200th hour into Pokemon Pearl, so there you go. >>
Garbz's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 16:53
Garbz
200 hours?

Jesus Christ!

I've got like, 50 max.

And i'm not that far off completing the Nation Pokedex.

How have you managed 200?

Also, with the "no one wants to play a 60 hour RPG" i think she meant "no one wants to play a 60 hour rpg with underdeveloped characters".
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 18:11
king3vbo
First off, great article! I really enjoyed it, and I think you have some good points. I just want to throw my quick 2 cents in:

I personally dont want a 60 hour RPG. I want a 160 hour RPG. I absolutely love games where I can play it forever and it takes and near infinite amount of time to beat. Gimme a huge game with tons of story and gameplay and im all for it.

That being said, I have to also add that for me, a big part of that "timesink" would be character development. The developer cant expect me to like the characters just because Im using them. Develop the characters enough that I really begin to care about them. I know its cliched to say this, but FF7 was a great example. I was shocked and stunned when Aeris died, and it was because I truly cared about her and the rest of the party
Pangloss's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 18:50
Pangloss
I think it bears mentioning that one of my favorite sets of characters was that of Baten Kaitos: Origins. You just had the three characters, so each one got developed a lot more than, say, Yuffie or Cait Sith. Sagi amused me in that he was the biggest mama's boy I've ever seen in a video game. In pretty much every other RPG ever, the mom is never seen again after leaving the house.

And I adore the hell out of super-long RPGs. I recall recently I was tearing through Enchanted Arms, and I started to get kinda sad when I noticed that my save file said 86% completion. "It's almost over..."
Aevalad's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 19:11
Aevalad
It isn't whether or not people want 60-hour console RPGs, it is what kind of 60-hour RPG people want and who wants them.

The Japanese can't get enough of the RPGs that are described in the article. They wish to just play though a story and control a character. This is why many JRPGs are linear.

Many Western gamers on the other hand are looking towards other games. They wish to influence a story, and BE the character. Many Western RPGs are more open ended than JRPGs.

10 years ago, JRPGs were pretty much the only choice that Western console gamers really had. Therefore, everyone liked them.. because that was all they had to choose from. But then, with Microsoft's venture into the gaming market with the X-Box, Western developed RPGs started making the jump from PCs to consoles. Console gamers were introduced to the world of Tamriel by way of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, and Bioware started showing off what they could do with KotOR. (Though before this, Bioware was pretty damn good in the PC market with the Baldur's Gate series. I'll take BG2 over FFVII anyday).

But why were people drawn to these types of RPGS? The answer is the characters. Unlike JRPGs, the main character in these games was the player. Sure, in MOST JRPGs you get to name the main character.. but that is all the customization that you are given. This was pretty damn new to the console gamers as this customization level was not too common amongst console games at the time. Console gamers were now given the opportunity to BE the hero instead of play as the hero.

But it didn't stop there, some people didn't want to be the hero.. they wanted to be the villain. These new RPGs didn't stop you from being the most evil motherfucker around. The greatest example of this is in Morrowind, where it was possible (albeit VERY VERY VERY VERY difficult) to kill a god.

The main conflict comes down to Japanese gamer vs Western gamer. The games are made to different tastes. Now that Western RPG makers have started finding their way onto consoles (I would have to give a tip of the hat to Microsoft. Before the X-Box, console gaming was entirely run by the Japanese companies.), the Western gamers can now play games according to their taste rather than putting up with foreign RPGs. Sure, there are some gamers in the West that still love JRPGs. But is the JRPG following as big as it was 10 years ago? No way.



David Houghton 's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 19:17
David Houghton
*applauds*

Seriously, I can empathise only too well. As much as I adore the genre, in recent years I've felt like I can only call myself an RPG fan in principle. While some of the greatest, most enjoyable, and most affecting experiences of my life in gaming have been through RPGs, I've been feeling the pain of diminishing returns for quite a while now.

And I totally agree with your points on increased technology perhaps hindering things. I've been looking for years for a game to make me feel attached and immersed the way that Secret Of Mana and Final Fantasy VI did, but all I've found are glorious looking and sounding experiences that just leave me with a dull feeling when it comes emotional content and connection with the game.

Partly I think this is down to the "seen it all before" element, whereby most RPGs seem to be the same story and and archetypes with different character models and names, but I think the fact that we had to use our imaginations more in the old days helped a hell of a lot. You'd look at a mountain range or a village in the 16-bit era and it would be a signifier of location rather than a definitive illustration. It would fire your imagination off to create the place in your mind far more vividly that a perfect HD rendering of every detail in an area can. Places like that may look beautiful, but you can't make them your own. And making things your own is surely the point of role playing.

And don't even get me started on voice acting. Every character in Final Fantasy VI speaks with a realistic, individual voice which fills them with personality and human subtly, and me with empathy. The reason being that I hear those voices in my head as I read their words. Throw on a dub with actors giving me their interpretation of the dialogue, and the subtlty, realism, and feel that these are my characters is lost.

Maybe I'm just being a miserable old bastard, I don't know, but I'd happily play an RPG for 200 hours if it could give me that feeling back. I just feel like I've been faced with too much artifice and not enough involvement in the genre for a long time.

madmatt's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 21:13
madmatt
I think Chrono Trigger was just about as perfect as I think RPGs will ever get. Like Garbz, I proffer the silent protagonist to make him/her feel like you. It had different scenarios based on your actions, and multiple endings. It had never cared more about the characters in a game than those in CT. Todays RPGs do in fact feel soulless.

Don't even get me started on 3-d Jrpgs like FF8.
Aequitas's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/22/2007 22:26
Aequitas
I long for the days when I would play Xenogears for 8 or 10 hours at a stretch, and every 5 minutes spare I had in between anything else. I used to stay logged into the MUD I chat on for 18 hours at a time.

Now that I'm working full time and attending university 3/4 to full time, it leaves very little time for gaming. Weekends I play Forza 2 or whatever on Xbox Live with friends, and slow times at work I'll play something on DS.

I find myself starting long games, such as FFXII, Dragon Quest 8, and Valkyrie Profile 2, because I love playing them, but somewhere along the way I don't end up finishing them anymore. The DS is a great help in that regard - I wish Etrian Odyssey had a game timer to compare, but I've played that game almost every day since I got it. The difference is being able to take it with me anywhere, pick it up, play short bursts, then close the DS and suspend the game until I'm ready to play more.

I guess I'm making the inevitable transition from hardcore gamer to a more casual variant. Games have to take a backseat to paying bills and ensuring my education investment is not wasted. Every step of the way, though, I keep hoping for a time when I can come home from work and lose myself in games again.
ChrisFurniss's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2007 00:30
ChrisFurniss
@ Aequitas

I am EXACTLY the same way. Even when I do have time and try to sit down for a nice 6 hour stretch of gaming, I get so horribly bored or distracted I can't get into it. What the hell?

I miss wanting to spend the entire weekend scouring every corner of Secret of Mana. Where did that go?
RJG's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2007 08:16
RJG
I don't want to play a sixty hour RPG if most of the time mis spent doing nothing but moving from A to B, grabbing new weapons and levelling up in the process and eventually fighting some sort of agon. It's boring and especially pointless if the "story game" as the RPG often is can be done in less time with greater focus.

Hopefully the next articles will deal with the stupidity of random enemy encounters. There is nothing so stupid to me. Ambushes are fine if they fit the story and locale, but awlking through an empty temple should not result in an ambush by an angry plant and a skeleton every five steps. It's padding, like I mentioned above, and pointless.
ajaxender's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2007 09:59
ajaxender
i agree with some of your article, but i feel like posting about the rest of it (rpgs and the FF games in particular being one of my favourite genres)

i found that FFXII was anything but soulless. You are correct about the lack of connection with a main character ; but thats because there wasnt one. imo, the characters are some of the best and most interesting square has ever come up with - balthier in particular.

I think downplaying the role of the story in the character development. We all know what happens when you take a great character and put it in a mediocre story (halo 2 anyone? how about FFX-2? hmm its sequels to blame it seems :P). I want to see characters go thru a fantastic story to see how they deal with the events, to see how they form bonds as they deal with hardship and loss and all the other stuff you get in typical rpgs, to learn how they think, to really get to know them. Even basic fighting games like tekken have a story, so that the characters are not just pointless 3-d models that beat the shite out of each other. Basically, i find that good characters come out of a good story, just as much as (or even more so than) good stories are about good characters.

And the fact is, to do this, you need to restrict the players freedom. That is why there are sub-quests, why there are battles, why there are generally more characters than you can have in battle at one time, why there are many customization options (even when, sadly they are not shown on the character models - something that needs to change, even with the liner j-rpgs like the FFs), because no-one really wants to 'play' an interactive book.
Compare this to games with near complete freedom of play, like oblivion ; ive had oblivion since it was released, and ive never finished it. Ive got pretty far, but, shallow gameplay aside, the story just doesnt draw me in, because its not really that deep - it cant be, since then it would force the player to follow it, and that restricts freedom. I believe that this is true for all make-your-own-char games, at least to a certain extent. Perhaps its just me, but i find that games like this, where you make all the choices and in particular choose the responses for your char to npcs, just dont allow the same level of character development. I dont so much get attached to the character itself, as the time spent playing it.

Other than that tho, you make good points, particularly regarding pointless party members(which, imo, none of the more recent FF games have done) and the 'job' system, which i have come to hate if its too restrictive - although, making all the characters potentially identical in every way other than appearence is just as bad (which admittedly, many of the recent FF's have done). Youre right too about the cliched characters, but then thats true in almost all media, and its easy enough to ignore, particularly if theres some hidden depth to them. Even a simple back-story, which even random 'secret' characters tend to have, can make the difference.

Anyways, i have one more comment, directed at ratcliff - the way you describe tidus seems to say that water polo is a bit of a 'soft' sport. Have you ever played it? Go on, give it a try, you'll see the error in your words after about 5 min... :P
Good article btw, you made me sign up! now i can post on more articles! weeeeee!!
Colette Bennett's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2007 11:25
Colette Bennett
Anyone who says they don't want a story is lying. Why are you playing a ROLE PLAYING GAME? You can't play one without a story telling you whose role you are actually playing. However, the last few years have brought so many painful attempts at stories that don't stick or hollow characters that I think gamers are hitting that point of frustration where they don't know what to say or do anymore. I want to love an RPG again...but I can admit I don't search through all the new releases like I used to. It feels recycled to me at this point.
Myrmidon16's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/23/2007 17:17
Myrmidon16
i havent done this much readin online since sparknotes.
elvis333's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/11/2007 21:29
elvis333
I think bigpopagamer's post is closest to where I am at. For me, I don't want graphics that are better than first generation 16 bit - i.e golden sun for me is just a little too polished. I want bad graphics, great puzzles, good characters, and a story that keeps moving. Dragon Warrior 2-3, zelda oracle games, lufia the legend returns on the gbc, those have just the right amount of primitiveness in the graphics to make the game mean a lot to me. When I first played NES, my mind dove right into the screen and I lived in that world. I now love to revisit that feeling, but really need low fi graphics similar to what I loved my first go around with video games when I was a kid to really make me love the games. The 8-16 bit rpgs feel like classics, and make me appreciate the art of the rpg. I know graphics have come along way since, but to me all the great movie- like sound and graphics thrown in modern rpgs just seems grotesque and antiseptic to what an rpg should be - it's like listening to classic rock - you wouldn't want modern technology to take away from the original sound of the songs from the 60's and 70's just because they can add a whole heap of effects. I think if developers dumbed down the graphics to the classic era of rpg's, the format would still have a lot of meaning to a lot of people. We need to use our imagination wen looking at blocky primitive graphics to get the real flavor of this genre
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