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Brink dev believes separate multiplayer is ludicrous photo

Here is Splash Damage's Edward Stern's quote from Gamasutra on multiplayer gaming (read first, we'll discuss after):

It's just inane. You get games shipping with separate executables, a completely different experience, sometimes a different control scheme. Why would you ever do that? It's crazy now. There's no reason to do that.

It seems ludicrous that we've got this notion of completely separate online, offline, single-player, multiplayer. That's in the past. There's no reason to put up with that anymore.

There are really, really good games -- we play them a lot -- where you do just move through on a rail, and that's really satisfying, but the same guy comes out the same doorway every single time. There's not much reason to replay that except to make it harder or do a time trial and stuff.

As a gamer who doesn't do multiplayer that often (I'm not alone) or enjoy it that much I have to say that I don't agree with Stern at all. While having different controls for your multiplayer is pretty dumb, dividing multiplayer and single player up into different parts is anything but ludicrous. Multiplayer doesn't have to be a second class citizen or anything, but I want my single player and I don't want my friends coming in on it for the most part. While what Brink is attempting to do sounds very cool, it isn't for every game and criticizing the fact that other games have clearly defined single player and multiplayer parts simply does not make sense. I'm not "putting up with that," I like that. 

What do you think? Are we headed for games that mold everything together or is separate better.








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Matthew Razak is Destructoid's Associate editor and co-founder of film site Flixist. He began as community member "cowzilla" and was since sequestered to write brainy features material. He lives in Los Angeles with his beautiful wife. Likes Games! Movies! Hats! Meet the rest of the team



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33 comments | showing # 1 to 33
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Grobstein's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:15
Grobstein
Separate's always better when there's feelings involved.
Yehat's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:19
Yehat
I also must disagree Mr Edward Stern despite enjoying Spash Damage's games. The fact of the matter is it's not whether or not you prefer one or the other. It's whether either 'mode' actually 'meshes' well with each other.

I "get" what he means, games like Guild Wars, Phantasy Star Online or Diablo but there's often a good reason for divorcing the single player from the multiplayer since often you loose a good bit of the narrative from the single player. That's not suggesting co-op is out of the question, at times anyway, but there's a huge difference between say playing Baldur's Gate 2 with friends and playing it with yourself.
taumpytears's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:19
taumpytears
I'm glad that bioshock 2 will have multiplayer, maybe it will even have cut scenes and a main character more like Master Chief, then it would me a 1337 game made of win.
gsGaret's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:21
gsGaret
For the most part games with both single and multi-player, are really only focused on one or the other, with the other more or less just tacked on.(not always the case I know)I can see where this has potential being able to have you friends or any random stranger join you on your quest, but I feel you should always have the option to play solo.

I prefer to play solo, but I would like to see how Stern's Idea pan out.
Drewcifer000's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:28
Drewcifer000
I was raised on watching friends beat single player games and them watching me play my single player games. What I really want is a game to have that single player experience but be able to add a close friend for co-op too.
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:29
Volomon
It depends what he's talking about I don't think I know fully what context this quote is from. If it's anything like Demon's Souls, then I'm all for it. That game is unique you don't have to engage in MP if you don't want to other than to keep out evil players. It's ultimately up to you. Those evil souls by the way have half life, so you should be able to beat them. Plus they add a unique aspect an enemy with a human brain. Something different unique something to put you on edge. Yet are in now way more dangerous than anything else in the game, in fact the opposite.

You don't have to invite players, in fact you can "Summon" help. It's basically giving typical NPC roles a human brain. It's up to you how far you want it to go. If all you want to do is read little tips by other players then so be it.

I understand what he is saying but at the same time it's not in the vein of a typical SP/MP game. It's something more unique. It would ultimately depend on how well it was implemented.
AfroWalrus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:32
AfroWalrus
It looks like his complaint is that the same events happen every time you play a single player game, which is true to a point. But you can't tell a good story if things change unpredictably. Consistency is a good thing. When I eat pizza, I don't want the toppings to suddenly turn into ice cream or cardboard. I play single player games because I like the consistency of the story and events.
Kakihara_The_Killer's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:36
Kakihara_The_Killer
I love cut-scenes and getting emotionally involved in my games (when story is a focus) but every time I've tried doing co-op online it just feels like multiplayer with bots, you loose so much of the immersion, "hey guys stop chatting so I can hear the cinema...". Like Matthew I really don't want people ruining my gaming experience. For me playing a big epic game I've been looking forward to for a year and just spent $60 on is the same as watching a big epic film I've been looking forward to for the first time, I look forward to experiencing it with friends later, but that first time it's all me and you better not talk lol!
Electrium's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 22:53
Electrium
I think Halo 3 got it right on this aspect. If you want to play alone, you can play campaign alone, on various difficulties, with various skulls turned on/off. But if you don't want to play alone, you can do campaign with 3 friends, 3 strangers, or do matchmaking with friends or just fight random people. There is no strings pulling you in any direction, you have complete freedom. But integrating ALL of those aspects? I would never want that. If I want to play by myself or with a couple friends, I should have that capability.
GameraTheGreat's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 23:26
GameraTheGreat
Opting for one format in lieu of another as an industry-wide standard is NOT the way to go. For some games it works well (Gears of War 1 & 2, Left4Dead, Saints Row2), for others it needs work (Fable II, Resident Evil 5?-opinion here-no attacks needed), while with a select few it’s atrocious and forced (Bionic Commando, The Incredible Hulk –what the fuck was that!?!?, Dark Sector).
The Single-player theme has existed for quite a long time and many of us are avid gamers as a result of great single-player experiences. Now that we have consoles that can connect us to one another, a new format has emerged. I am quite excited by the prospect of experiencing “certain types” of games with others online, but that’s not for everyone nor is it ideal for every game. Some titles benefit from the traditional one-player approach and that should be respected, but online multi-player is here to stay and I for one am glad for that fact.
If it fits the theme and story of the game, why not open up the experience to multiple players? Games like Lost Planet II are going do well as a result of buddying-up not to mention counless sports and fighting titles. I don’t think it should be forced or slapped on, but when multiplayer is done correctly, it can be a collective gestalt. Some games that feature one central protagonist should probably remain single-player events (Darksiders, GoWIII, and certain RPGs) and I don’t think fans of this particular game style should fear that single-player games will become a thing of the past….they will endure as long as you purchase them. There really is enough room for everyone to be satisfied…...we just have to make certain that developers understand there are multiple interests and gaming styles…after all it wasn’t that long ago that the death of 2D was announced and now its back because of gamers speaking with their wallets.
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 23:45
Chris Carter
I disagree, Razak.

"Separate" multiplayer is another word for lazy, tacked on side missions, like Uncharted 2's coop or Resistance 2's coop. It would take effort to program in a fully accessible coop mode like Gears or Halo, so it's rarely done.
tigerfangred91's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/02/2009 23:46
tigerfangred91
The only multiplayer I do is COD4 and I like how they're seperate. I agree that it's cool what they're trying to do but that isn't how every game should be in my opinion.
CelicaCrazed's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 00:00
CelicaCrazed
Magnalon, how can you call the best part of Resistance 2 lazy and tacked on!! I actually really liked how Insomniac did it, using the coop mode to provide a more human perspective of how the ongoing battle over Earth was shifting and how the world leader were reacting. It also made the game feel less like another "one man army" type of game. The campaign was all about finishing Hale's story with 3 of the 4 characters dying. While I do hope that the campaign for Resistance 3 is coop (they were working in teams of 4 as it was), the 8 player mode needs to stay....and make Superhuman the default difficulty :P
DeusPayne's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 00:28
DeusPayne
You know what I like, not having a bloated executable just so I have the choice in game between multi and single-player. Optimizing the launched game for whatever you are doing with it is a quality thing, not a laziness thing.
JynxShot's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 00:50
JynxShot
I only enjoy co-op multiplayer in shooters, or when it's seamlessly folded into the single-player a la Borderlands. VS. mode blows for me.

This doesn't apply to, say, fighting or strategy games though.
Holiday's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 00:52
Holiday
I know with Bioshock 2 they managed to integrate a multiplayer without it being "tacked on", that they gave it it's own storyline inside the main one. But with a game like Uncharted 2, why they decided to add a multiplayer that has nothing to do with the main storyline or characters, that's just there for people to run around and shoot each other ad nauseum like a million other shooter multiplayer games is beyond me. For that matter you could say the same about just about all multiplayer aspects to shooter games. 10 minutes into any Deathmatch feels like every other Deathmatch ever created.
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 00:54
Chris Carter
@Celica
I'm biased because my wife and I love story based coop games.

I feel like Resistance 2's missions were "gaidens" rather than a look at the big picture. The single player campaign was much more epic, and I would have loved to enjoy it with companions.

I should clarify: the "gaidens" weren't necessarily bad, I was just disappointed there wasn't any coop campaign to be found.
Volomon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 01:01
Volomon
@MotoRobo I think his point is a more dynamic fluid real life experience. Where the actions of multiple people determine the story, difficulty, and overall experience.

People have only dabbled in this area. Mostly a MMO experience so far has been the only thing to come close. A few games have tried. Realistically it's hard to control these kinds of interactions, the technology doesn't yet exist to move this from a MMO sphere to the more console oriented solo sphere.

I personally have a few ideas, but I'm not a game developer. Frankly with the tech we have, what he says could be done. It's just the application and technique used.
CelicaCrazed's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 01:04
CelicaCrazed
@ Magnalon

Alright, gotcha ;)!! That I fully understand. I think they could do some really amazing if they focus on the coop for the campaign in the next game.
munkee's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 02:44
munkee
the guys a tit and perhaps doesn't believe in value for money
Jabberwalk's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 04:28
Jabberwalk
Multiplayer is great. My favorite games include Team Fortress 2 and L4D, a pure "not even a bots training mode" multiplayer game and one that is almost useless on single player. However, my favorite games also include Fallout 3 and TES:Oblivion, narrative driven single player only experiences. There is room enough in the hearts (and wallets) of gamers for both. I really doubt ever single game in the future will include or need dynamic multiplayer drop-in/out support (although, a version of Allen Wake where a buddy can suddenly drop in as another depressed, alcoholic, and possibly haunted author working through deep personal trauma could be interesting).

More interesting to me is all this talk of merging online communities. Bringing 360, PS3, and PC users all together in one online game? Sounds too good to be true, and full of logistic problems.
Sean Daisy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 04:57
Sean Daisy
BREAKING NEWS - Brink developer believes integrated player gaming is the future.

COMING SOON - The Pope's take on Catholicism, what bears think about the woods.
Chronic Logic's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 05:44
Chronic Logic
Look at the new Command and Conquer game. Yea. Being forced to play ONLY multiplayer sucks.
Onlineatron's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 07:09
Onlineatron
I'll ALWAYS prefer a great Single Player experience over Multiplayer any day. If I have to be in multiplayer to fully enjoy the game (ala L4D) I tend to not enjoy it.

That said, are those in-game graphics for Brink? If they are...wow.

(prob from the PC build though =( )
whatisdelicious's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 09:36
whatisdelicious
I love when developers make all these big claims and criticize how other games have been made for years... and then their game comes out and it sucks.

Same with the Blur dev team. Coming out and making grandiose claims and talking about how awesome their game will be, and then the FIRST time the press gets to get their hands on it, they're all like "...meh."

Hey Edward Stern, how about you and the other Splash Damage crew shut the fuck up and spending your time working on making Brink good, yeah?
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 10:19
Elsa
It really depends on the game. As others have said, sometimes the single player story is a set up for how multiplayer plays out. For other games like Sacred 2 or Borderlands, story isn't usually as important... it can't be for those games because it would be rare to find several people all at the same point in the story.
Geoffrey42's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 12:32
Geoffrey42
I think I agree with his point, broadly. It is inane to build two completely different games, one for multiplayer, and one for singleplayer, then try to sandwich them together into a single, cohesive experience. This is most obvious in games where one or the other mode has been painfully tacked on, just to make a bullet point. If your game works in multiple modes (single, co-op multi, competitive multi, massive multi), then include those modes, but integrate them into a cohesive whole. If it doesn't work in certain modes, leave those modes out altogether, don't duct tape them on.

I don't see where in that quote he said that singleplayer games are a waste of time, or that they shouldn't be made anymore.
themizarkshow's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/03/2009 17:29
themizarkshow
I don't really game online, unless its with/against friends or doing a coop campaign with them, so I think that keeping them separate is for the best. It allows people to play how they want and when they want, not just when their friends or clan are online... or when the servers are working... etc.

Keeping them separate also adds to the feeling that you're getting your moneys worth. You play through a solid campaign, and when you find a robust coop/multiplayer component you can really feel like you made the right choice in purchasing the title and that may be the difference from playing it over and over again... and hell, it might be the difference in suggesting it to friends and fellow gamers too.

Lumping the two together would not just feel lazy on the devs part, but it would keep me from buying most of those titles.
the Golden Avatar's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/05/2009 17:06
the Golden Avatar
Ludicrous.
pinstonlee's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/08/2009 16:36
pinstonlee
yeh im disagreeing mostly. i agree on changing controls for different modes in teh game is stupid (dont know which games do that anyways) but i kinda want my single player done by me. i wouldnt mind the option of a co-op mode that is basically the single player but with friends or something like that, but i dont feel its necesarry to just mash everything up
ethgensute67's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/14/2011 17:49
ethgensute67
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