Braid creator Jonathan Blow has voiced a word of respect for Sony, claiming that the PlayStation Network is much less conservative than Xbox Live when it comes to indie games, allowing riskier prospects to flourish.
"Microsoft has provided the lower barrier to entry with Xbox Live Indie Games, but most of them are not very good -- I don't think that's a controversial statement," says Blow, controversially. "So if you're thinking about the impact of indie games on the whole forum of games then probably Sony has done more because of the way they curate the games they put on there - they're actually looking for games that are artful or experimental.
"I mean, they published Linger In Shadows; Microsoft would never have done that -- that's not even really a game. XBLA is more conservative than PSN but it still has a larger audience so it's much more commercially feasible, as long as you can get your game noticed - which is getting harder over time, but is still possible.
"Some of the stuff Microsoft signs and publishes on XBLA is pretty bad; some of it is very good. Super Meat Boy is obviously a really good game. I wish they had promoted that more heavily, but Live Arcade is part of a bureaucratic machine, which is part of a bigger bureaucratic machine and so on - what more can they do?"
Microsoft occasionally surprises with a really interesting game, such as Limbo and Super Meat Boy, but I feel it's true that Sony likes to take more chances -- both online and at retail. Its library may not be as robust or even commercially successful as the Xbox 360's, but the PS3's list of games are certainly more eclectic. Still, Sony has no excuse for passing up Meat Boy.
Braid creator: Sony takes more risks than MS with indie games [CVG]
Contest:
11:00 AM on 12.22.2010 | 
Unpopular opinions aside Blow does make the also interesting point that Linger In Shadows isn't "really a game." I mean PSN can have all the indie stuff it wants, an good on them and those who enjoy it definitely, I am not trying to rag on PSN. But XBLA still has a damn good catalog of traditional games by indie devs. No they're not artsy or experimental but for my money I'm fine with that. I have my PC for that. I personally feel like experimental and artsy translates better on PC whereas more traditional stuff translates better on console.
No, I don't think it's that controversial of a statement. He isn't saying either one is better. He's saying they're different. Which is good. Hopefully it's an incentive for some to buy both, minimalising the chances of brand loyality, and hopefully putting mankind one step closer to world peace.
i love how sony has always had those strange japanese games that were so out there.
To be fair the Indie section of Live is purely for games without publishers. I think in this case Blow is talking about indie games with publishers which sit alongside all the other downloadable titles on Live. The actual Indie is for games that are basically the equivalent of your average iPhone or DSiWare game (most of the time) and were probably made in someone's basement in a few weeks. Games like Braid, Super Meat Boy, Limbo, 'Splosion Man, ilomilo, and the like all sit alongside all the other downloadable titles and usually get the same ad space on Live too. What they don't get however is that same press attention or non-Live advertising. A game like ilomilo may sit next to, I dunno, the new Pac-Man in New Releases, and you may see an ad that says "Hey look, ilomilo is out! Hooray!" but do you know what ilomilo is? In that respect Sony probably has the upper hand because they have their blog and stuff like that. Microsoft has Major Nelson who does spend more time pushing the bigger games and the social events around Live than he does promoting weird little indie games from fuckin' Sweden like ilomilo.
By they way, everyone, ilomilo rules.
It's hard for me to bash MS for a service that allows the Xbox Live community code and release games.
I kind of think of the indie games on Xbox Live in the same way I think of the C-blogs here on Destructoid.
They may not all be great, but they're all Destructoid. That's what community is, and that's what Xbox Live and it's indie games are about.
Games by the gaming community.
What's wrong with that?
So many more "out there" games on the PS3 than on the 360. Since I'm not much of an FPS fan, the 360 doesn't have as much to offer me.
I think blow has a point. Sony expects too much out of the indie developers. They want the games to be as big of a seller as, say, a retail game. Most people still don't have their consoles connected to the internet, though. Maybe sony is trying to protect indie devs from the sting of poor sales.
That's what I think.
Overall the quality on XBL is much higher than PSN, but there are some off the wall experiences that XBL just doesn't offer.
The flipside, of course, is that developers like Silver Dollar Games release a billion little gems like 'Try not to fart' and 'How to talk to girls.'
how do you have ilomilo!? I can't wait for that.
I love ilomilo.
Microsoft pushed the Indie Channel's Kodu Game Lab pretty hard -- going so far as to feature it during their E3 presentation in 2008 -- and that's not a "game" either. Also,
"I wish they had promoted [Super Meat Boy] more heavily."
I'm not sure they COULD have promoted it more heavily. They offered a $5 off sale when it first released, and it was all over the dashboard for weeks (and still is).
I guess I just don't really see what he's talking about. For every Flower, MS has a Limbo. For every Pixeljunk game, MS has a Twisted Pixel. And so on. I really don't think one platform is more or less conducive to indie/small devs than the other.
Besides, XBL gave us DishwasherSamurai. Can't wait for the sequel.
Shadow of the Colossus was a greatest hits title.
Journey. Its made by Jenova Chen and the gang at the studios who made flower and flow.
"Could there possibly be a missing 'Microsoft offered us a whole lot of money if we skipped a PSN release' step?"
Don't you think MS would have also required that the game not be released on Wiiware and Steam? (If MS did have an exclusive, the game would have appeared on GFWL, if anything.)
I don't know. I suppose it all depended on the negotiations. Team Meat might have been totally unwilling to exclude a PC release, perhaps, and Microsoft might see PSN as a more direct competitor than WiiWare. Those are just guesses, of course, but that whole explanation just sounded off. You don't just go from "didn't seem interested" to "excluded until the end of time". It's not like Sony has a bad track record with indie games. My guess is that Sony wasn't interested because they weren't going to match Microsoft's offer, and the alternative was a delayed release. Who knows, really, what goes on with negotiations like that.
For a while they were giving out demo codes. I don't know if the link is still live or not.
"MS only has FPS games, amirit--"
NO.
He has a point I think but its kind of muddied by his viewpoint
The "Greatest Hits" moniker is a loose one. Every wonder why games with slow sales like Mirror's Edge get Greatest Hits editions while games like MW2 don't have one a full year later? Answer: Greatest Hits is a marketing gimmick to move slow selling games that should still have appeal. Games that sell well don't get a Greatest Hits edition because they don't need it.
Umwut?
i remember that interview and couldn't help but thinking "is it on sony to suck your balls and tell you they want your game?" NO. its not on sony to say "come on over here", its on the developer to say "lets get it on as many platforms as we can".
and sony showing no interest is based on an assumption. don't ever assume a godam thing except that the sun will rise in the morning and set in the evening.
both platforms have their great points and weak points, neither is the holy grail and that goes for the wii as well. you want our game to be exclusive to one platform, thats a decision the developer alone makes. no one forces these guys to keep it on one platform unless they get funding from that platform, sign a timed exclisive contract or just don't it to be there.
i remember that interview and couldn't help but thinking "is it on sony to suck your balls and tell you they want your game?" NO. its not on sony to say "come on over here", its on the developer to say "lets get it on as many platforms as we can".
and sony showing no interest is based on an assumption. don't ever assume a godam thing except that the sun will rise in the morning and set in the evening.
both platforms have their great points and weak points, neither is the holy grail and that goes for the wii as well. you want our game to be exclusive to one platform, thats a decision the developer alone makes. no one forces these guys to keep it on one platform unless they get funding from that platform, sign a timed exclisive contract or just don't it to be there.
That made me laugh for some reason - bravo.
But that's how business works,. If you don't express interest in something the creator will take it to someone who does.
It's like if you are selling a house. A family comes to check it out and doesn't show very much interest in the house. What would you do? Would you aggressively pursue them, calling them over and over saying "Why don't you buy my house? Please buy it!" No. You wouldn't do that. You'd wait for someone else to come along and take an interest, then you'd sell it to them.
It's sony's fault for dropping the ball on meat boy. You can't blame the developer for not wasting their time trying to get the game on the system when sony apparently was just like "meh"
In fact, i'd say that this has happened before, people have brought games to sony, sony doesn't like it, then microsoft snatches it up(because they see it's good? Maybe they just want anything sony doesn't want, business strategy or something) so they can have something that the other guy doesn't.
What could be a bigger risk than XBLIG? It's community driven, for fucks sakes. There's a shitload of quirky indie titles on that service. Sure, there's also plenty of commercial games on XBLA, but to say that commercial success = less risks taken is stupid.
And Indie games are selling quite respectably, with some breaking 100,000 sales. That's fucking amazing for titles the people put together with spare time and a bit of coin.
these platform holders know they can't have every little indie game thats being made just for them, and maybe they choose to pick the battles they want. xbl gets trials hd, psn gets joe danger. xbl gets limbo, psn gets journey. its a healthy competition, every little indie game should not be on every platform known to man, what would be the fun in that?
just like how some fast food have only coke products and some have only pepsi products, its a healthy competition that will make some go "they don't have that here so i'll go there to get it".
To take the C-blogs analogy a step further, MS even has a way to frontpage the "blogs" that are true standouts by giving them the full blown Xbox Live Arcade treatment.
...and with several gaming outlets having both Limbo and Super Meat Boy nominated for game of the year (including Destructoid), I'd say it's a great time to be an indie developer.
Just look at the iTunes App Store!!!
They didn't, I said "like" Bit.trip. Pixeljunk is very similar to Bit.trip.
"Microsoft might see PSN as a more direct competitor than WiiWare."
That's all well and good, but when Super Meat Boy was originally announced Wiiware was orginally going to be the first console version before XBLA got it, so I doubt that's the case. More likely what you said later about how they didn't offer enough money for the gae, and Microsoft outbid them.