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Bang on as always Jim.
This seems to be the way DRM is headed now, what with them giving up on piracy and all. I personally think it's disgraceful,, and would love to find out how much "benefit" the designers recieve from publishers to implement DRM in their games.
This seems to be the way DRM is headed now, what with them giving up on piracy and all. I personally think it's disgraceful,, and would love to find out how much "benefit" the designers recieve from publishers to implement DRM in their games.
I agree with him to a point. A) Why should I have to pay the same price for a used game and B) retailers should distinguish new copies from used ones.
I don't think i've been to a single retailer yet that has merged new and used copies of games, they always say pre-owned, and i was under the impression you had to make it known by law?
I think GA makes a good point, as a consumer, you don't want to be buying something that is used when it puports to be new. Quite aside from the ethics, it's a contravention of the Trade Description Act (in the UK at any rate).
It's happened to me on occasins where I've bought ACE Combat 6 for forty quid and the box is sans seal and that wonderful adhesive smell you ony get with new games . . .
Anyway I digress.
It's happened to me on occasins where I've bought ACE Combat 6 for forty quid and the box is sans seal and that wonderful adhesive smell you ony get with new games . . .
Anyway I digress.
You haven't been to my local Gamestop then. They try to pull shit like this on me all the time. A new copy is one that you didn't open open, take home and play.
fuck you jim, i'll trade food if i want to.
i have cheese and ham sandwiches, and an apple. trade anyone for a box of nerds?
i have cheese and ham sandwiches, and an apple. trade anyone for a box of nerds?
Im not sure about all the other retails, but gamestop dose make it clear which games are used and which ones are new. Honestly people need to stfu about used games, they are not going away because your crying fowl like an emo.
Braben needs to STFUAJPG. If your games are good enough people will buy them new. Nuff said.
You don't see the film industry, book industry or the music industry etc etc moaning about this, it pathetic. "*bwah* but we want moar profits, these freeloaders *sniff* are playing our game and paying someone who's not us for it *sob* ".
You don't see the film industry, book industry or the music industry etc etc moaning about this, it pathetic. "*bwah* but we want moar profits, these freeloaders *sniff* are playing our game and paying someone who's not us for it *sob* ".
I usually disagree with his bitching about used games, but this is serious business. Why should we buy something that is used 'as new'?
Furthermore, the retailer doesn't have to declare the VAT that applies to all new purchases so it is defrauding you (because you're paying at the higher price) and the government, (becasue they're not receiving their 17.5% bounty on sales of all new products).
Legally, this isn't even grey, it's just illegal. As consumers of games, we should be bothered about being defrauded.
Furthermore, the retailer doesn't have to declare the VAT that applies to all new purchases so it is defrauding you (because you're paying at the higher price) and the government, (becasue they're not receiving their 17.5% bounty on sales of all new products).
Legally, this isn't even grey, it's just illegal. As consumers of games, we should be bothered about being defrauded.
I'm a huge fan of Goozex, but I'm also a huge fan of Steam. I just shipped off my copy of Fable II in order to get a copy of Dead Space. While waiting on that I downloaded Fallout 3 via Steam. Unfortunately, when I'm done with it I can't trade it for something else.
What I've always thought Steam needed was an option to allow you to gift games you own only one copy of. You would then lose that game from your profile. That way you could trade/sell games you never intend to play again.
What I've always thought Steam needed was an option to allow you to gift games you own only one copy of. You would then lose that game from your profile. That way you could trade/sell games you never intend to play again.
Frankly, I call bullshit on Braben's claim that used games are being sold AS new ones. In my experience, if I am buying a new game, the clerk might say "Oh we have a secondhand version of that if you want," and Hell, I'll usually take it, because I'm a penny pincher and will appreciate a few extra quid off.
I would indeed be shocked that if a store was selling new games as brand new ones, but given Braben's track record, I'd say that was more him over-reacting.
I would indeed be shocked that if a store was selling new games as brand new ones, but given Braben's track record, I'd say that was more him over-reacting.
Wow, I dont think Sterling could have missed the point anymore if he tried.
Does he really not believe that this is disgraceful?
I know for a fact that they do practice this pretty much as policy. There should certainly be a waiting period of a month or so (maybe longer) after a game comes out where you cant buy it used. At least from a retailer.
And using the argument that just because you make a lot of money, you shouldnt fight back against those that are screwing you out of more of it is really the most childish thing I read in the article.
Does he really not believe that this is disgraceful?
I know for a fact that they do practice this pretty much as policy. There should certainly be a waiting period of a month or so (maybe longer) after a game comes out where you cant buy it used. At least from a retailer.
And using the argument that just because you make a lot of money, you shouldnt fight back against those that are screwing you out of more of it is really the most childish thing I read in the article.
@Radie:
Like Jim already said, this happens with almost everything. Why should the video game industry be an exception?
Like Jim already said, this happens with almost everything. Why should the video game industry be an exception?
Because gaming stores dont offer fair trade or value.
How many times have you seen a preused copy of a game for either the same price or just a few bucks cheaper? Meanwhile they give you less then half of its value when you sell it back to them.
Imagine that working like that in any other industry. They wouldnt get away with it. The only reason they have up to this point, is because as Jim pointed out, game makers do make a lot of money. Still not a reason to not go after this problem though.
How many times have you seen a preused copy of a game for either the same price or just a few bucks cheaper? Meanwhile they give you less then half of its value when you sell it back to them.
Imagine that working like that in any other industry. They wouldnt get away with it. The only reason they have up to this point, is because as Jim pointed out, game makers do make a lot of money. Still not a reason to not go after this problem though.
@Jim
I thought the same. Sounded like a convenient story chucked in there just to emphasise his statement, and as already mentioned its illegal to do that in the UK anyway.
And to be honest if they did that to be i'd kick off about it.
I thought the same. Sounded like a convenient story chucked in there just to emphasise his statement, and as already mentioned its illegal to do that in the UK anyway.
And to be honest if they did that to be i'd kick off about it.
Illegal to do that in Britain? Really? Well I suppose it might be here in the states too, (not sure) but that isnt stopping them. Not at all.
Do I need to move to England to find an honest game store? I do like bangers and mash. But I have a fear of pigeons, will that be a problem or is that only in Trafalgar Square
Do I need to move to England to find an honest game store? I do like bangers and mash. But I have a fear of pigeons, will that be a problem or is that only in Trafalgar Square
When I bought my first DS I got it along with Meteos, Mario Kart, and Castlevania Dawn of Sorrows, from a Gamestop. Gamestop has this bullshit behavior of opening games and removing the disc or card so they can use the case for display. Anyway, I don't even think I brought cases to the counter, just asked for the games I wanted. When I got home, I noticed that Castlevania was not shink-wrapped, and a "new" price sticker was slapped directly on the case (I hate that shit). I put the game in my DS, and to my surprise there was already a savegame on the cart many hours into the game.
On further inspection, this "new" price tag was applied OVER TOP of another "Used" price tag, covering it up.
I was charged the price of a new game. This shit most DEFINITELY happens, and I would say it's encouraged by practices like Gamestop's opening of games.
My view now is that if it's not still shrink-wrapped, it's not a new copy. It's been opened. It should be marked as used, or damaged, and sold as such.
On further inspection, this "new" price tag was applied OVER TOP of another "Used" price tag, covering it up.
I was charged the price of a new game. This shit most DEFINITELY happens, and I would say it's encouraged by practices like Gamestop's opening of games.
My view now is that if it's not still shrink-wrapped, it's not a new copy. It's been opened. It should be marked as used, or damaged, and sold as such.
@Radie
Pretty sure, Trade Description Act (as mentioned by Axle).
Seems you must, we welcome you with a warm, buck-theethed smile!
Pretty sure, Trade Description Act (as mentioned by Axle).
Seems you must, we welcome you with a warm, buck-theethed smile!
@Radie:
Well it's not illegal to rip people off in America. It's sleezy and I hate it but I don't think it should be banned.
Well it's not illegal to rip people off in America. It's sleezy and I hate it but I don't think it should be banned.
@Radie:
Well it's not illegal to rip people off in America. It's sleezy and I hate it but I don't think it should be banned.
Well it's not illegal to rip people off in America. It's sleezy and I hate it but I don't think it should be banned.
jp007...
It almost makes me sick that we get screwed so hard and the Brits dont, so that they actually consider complaining about this VERY REAL problem a problem in itself. Fricking Brits and their "we follow the laws" propaganda. lol.
Ragewaar...
I am so taking you up on this. I hope your couch is big enough.. I am 6'4"
One other thing to consider...
If you couldnt just sell back a game you didnt like after a day or two, then maybe, just maybe people would do som research (gasp!) before they buy and wouldnt be inflating the numbers of mediocre games. Really, there are tons of benefits to placing a temporary embargo on selling recent games as used.
Besides I for one, prefer to support the people who put their efforts into making the game, not to those who try to just profit off of that work.
It almost makes me sick that we get screwed so hard and the Brits dont, so that they actually consider complaining about this VERY REAL problem a problem in itself. Fricking Brits and their "we follow the laws" propaganda. lol.
Ragewaar...
I am so taking you up on this. I hope your couch is big enough.. I am 6'4"
One other thing to consider...
If you couldnt just sell back a game you didnt like after a day or two, then maybe, just maybe people would do som research (gasp!) before they buy and wouldnt be inflating the numbers of mediocre games. Really, there are tons of benefits to placing a temporary embargo on selling recent games as used.
Besides I for one, prefer to support the people who put their efforts into making the game, not to those who try to just profit off of that work.
ragewaar...
I was going to joke about that, but decided not to. You were being so kind afterall.
The fact that games are starting to put in those one time downloads and stuff like that is clearly an indication that this is a big problem.
I was going to joke about that, but decided not to. You were being so kind afterall.
The fact that games are starting to put in those one time downloads and stuff like that is clearly an indication that this is a big problem.
I want publishers to get intelligent about dealing with new and preowned sales. Include decent multiplayer or user generated content to extend its life. Alternatively, I would have no quarrel with them, for example, including in game advertising in some form, with a redeemable ticket in the new retail copy to deactivate it.
Of course preowned sales are going to exist, but traditionally, a product will stay in your hands until such time as it has lost all market value. A car, for instance, you are not going to trade in one week after purchase, nor are you going to do that with clothes or music or electronics. Games on the other hand get traded in the day after release.
In all fairness, preowned games sales are different from other second hand industries. But I still would rather see clever, appealing methods of selling new copies of the game than malicious DRM methods.
Of course preowned sales are going to exist, but traditionally, a product will stay in your hands until such time as it has lost all market value. A car, for instance, you are not going to trade in one week after purchase, nor are you going to do that with clothes or music or electronics. Games on the other hand get traded in the day after release.
In all fairness, preowned games sales are different from other second hand industries. But I still would rather see clever, appealing methods of selling new copies of the game than malicious DRM methods.
Oh, fuck off. You're seriously going to complain because people want to pay less for their video games?
The thing is, publishers are raking it in hand over fist. Developers, not quite so much.
Don't get me wrong, when I buy a game it becomes my property and I'll trade it if I damn well feel like it, but I get where this guy is coming from.
Don't get me wrong, when I buy a game it becomes my property and I'll trade it if I damn well feel like it, but I get where this guy is coming from.
I have to say I disagree with this article. Now while yes, there is nothing wrong with selling used products, there is a limit, and when a retailer derives it's whole business in undercutting both customers and game companies (Gamestop is the main culprit of course) it is not a good thing at all. Just because you can be cheap, doesn't mean it's the best thing for all those involved.
And yes Jim, just to let you know, some stores do sell used games as new and don't say anything to the customer about it. And while it's easy to say "it's their own fault for being duped" it really is an issue of ethics, both personal and business ethics.
I think the opposite has happened to me before, I have bought second hand games and they looked like new
From what I'm hearing, it's a totally different issue than the one Jim is even talking about. It seems to me they are passing off used content as new content. Which is illegal in the United States. So as something that is already illegal in many places I suggest making it illegal in the UK as well. You can not claim an old car from 1999 as a car from 2008. Simple as that.
If a game store is selling a game as new when it's actually used, that's defrauding.
If they're just not stocking new games, that just makes them assholes.
If they're just not stocking new games, that just makes them assholes.
"I've tried to buy a copy of a relatively recent game, and I've taken an empty box off the shelf and they've given me a pre-owned copy."
He has a point with that. Shops actively trying to take money that would be going to the publishers is kinda shitty. Still, second hand is a good thing.
He has a point with that. Shops actively trying to take money that would be going to the publishers is kinda shitty. Still, second hand is a good thing.
Though it is crappy for a retailer that gets a request for a new game to privide a used I don't think it is totally bad unless they dont inform the customer it is used. Don't get me wrong I buy tons of new games and generally prefer to give them the extra sell but that is not the point.
Many products are resold everything from cars to houses even vintange clothes and art work. I am sure manufactures of every product in the world would prefer if people only bought the new ones so they got all the money. But lets look at cars for a second one of the biggest things people look on those is resale value so a cars rate of purchase is directly affected by its resale value for many people. For me a I a collecter of games but I don't think I would buy as many games if there was not monitary value to the game. So at the end of the day this is basic supply and demand. Make a good game that has good appeal and prefable has replay value cause if the game holds people the only tradins are going to be people who just didnt care for the game and that is always gonna happen I am sure there are some souless people that dont like LBP.
Many products are resold everything from cars to houses even vintange clothes and art work. I am sure manufactures of every product in the world would prefer if people only bought the new ones so they got all the money. But lets look at cars for a second one of the biggest things people look on those is resale value so a cars rate of purchase is directly affected by its resale value for many people. For me a I a collecter of games but I don't think I would buy as many games if there was not monitary value to the game. So at the end of the day this is basic supply and demand. Make a good game that has good appeal and prefable has replay value cause if the game holds people the only tradins are going to be people who just didnt care for the game and that is always gonna happen I am sure there are some souless people that dont like LBP.
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