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Braben: 'Rawr rawr pre-owned games rawr rawr rawr'

3:22 PM on 07.30.2008, Jim Sterling 39 comments

Braben: 'Rawr rawr pre-owned games rawr rawr rawr' photo
     United Kingdom

David Braben, founder of Frontier Developments has hit out at the practice of selling used videogames, claiming that it's "not tolerated by other industries" and that something needs to be done to stem the tide of what he suggests are "essentially rentals."

"More than half their floor area is dedicated to pre-owned and that is something as an industry we don't see," Braben said of UK retail chain Gamestation, who have some great pre-owned prices and good part exchange rates, I must confess. "Those same retailers are only carrying new copies of games from the past few months – if it's a game that's been out for two months and you want to buy one from a shop not Amazon and you don't want pre-owned, it's very hard," he explained.

"This is essentially rental, and it's not tolerated by other industries... Why can we not introduce special 'for rental' copies?"

Of course, Braben is right, other industries have zero tolerance on the sale of pre-owned products. Apart from, of course, movies, cars, televisions, clothes, everything you find in charity shops, computers, in fact most home appliances ... actually, everything apart from food, although I'm sure you could buy some pre-chewed sausages in some dark corner of the Internet.

Let's face facts here -- the sale of secondhand goods is not unique to the games industry, and it will continue to be part of it until digital distribution takes over, or we no longer run the risk of shelling out fifty quid on a game that could turn out to be crap. Rawr rawr rawr, indeed.


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king3vbo's Avatar
king3vbo at 07/30/2008 15:26
Everything except food? Pretty much
mistic's Avatar
mistic at 07/30/2008 15:27
Man with a quote like that, you instanly look like the internet-idiot :-)

great writing Jim ;)
sweetchuck's Avatar
sweetchuck at 07/30/2008 15:28
If the movie and music industry can survive VHS and cassettes, used retailers, piracy, and digital distribution, (all at one point thought to be THE END) then I think video games will be just fine.
Alexradl's Avatar
Alexradl at 07/30/2008 15:28
Hey David, I'm going to go buy a used copy of Dog's Life.
falinter's Avatar
falinter at 07/30/2008 15:29
Used games from a used game store is shit and I don't do that.
Only because you give them a big amount of the money you could make if you just cut the middle man out.

I buy used from amazon. Direct from gamers who I would rather give the money to.
ThunderHeartXI's Avatar
ThunderHeartXI at 07/30/2008 15:31
The only time I've felt bad for buying a used game was when I picked up ICO this past Saturday. I would have rather given my money to Team ICO instead of the used shop, but you can't find a new copy of ICO anywhere!

Other than that, I love buying used. Never had a problem with them. Then again, I do pirate hundreds of dollars worth of programs, so my opinion is a bit unvalidated.
greeneggsnsam's Avatar
greeneggsnsam at 07/30/2008 15:32
Why not ban eBay while we're at it?
Barcode's Avatar
Barcode at 07/30/2008 15:42
Looks like they're going to have to make editions of their games like publishers making editions of their books.

I can see it now.

Super Mario Brothers 4th Edition! $60!!!
CALkulon's Avatar
CALkulon at 07/30/2008 15:45
One word:

Twat.
Timmeh's Avatar
Timmeh at 07/30/2008 15:52
Places like Blockbuster don't sell ex-rental movies cheap? There are some stores (like those CEX or Cash Converters places or some games stores) that also sell movies. then there's Ebay. Of course, that there isn't such a huge secondhand market with other forms of entertainment is NOTHING to do with the fact that you can buy new movies for £5-15 and music for even less. Nooooooo of course not.
Conan-san's Avatar
Conan-san at 07/30/2008 15:54
Don't care, part exchanged to get FF VI DS down to £15, I regret nothing.
mabman's Avatar
mabman at 07/30/2008 16:00
waaaaaaaaaaah, waahhhhhhhhh
Sharpless's Avatar
Sharpless at 07/30/2008 16:01
What. An. Idiot. Seriously, is he retarded or something? I'm the goddamn Ba-... er, I mean, used DVDs are easy to buy, as are used CDs. And people should have the right to sell their possessions, if they so desire, including video games.

If they want me to start purchasing games brand-new, then they need to start lowering the prices. Until then, I'm more concerned with my bank account, than meeting their company's needs.
Doomtrain's Avatar
Doomtrain at 07/30/2008 16:02
I may hate GameStop. I may indeed FUCKING hate GameStop, but there is nothing immoral or illegal about what they do. The buying and selling of used goods is a self governing market. If someone thinks a price offered is fair, they will accept it and sell. If someone thinks a price proposed is fair, they will accept it and buy. If they don't, they won't, nothing is being forced on anyone. You don't have to walk into a pawn shop (which is more or less what GameStop is) and buy used anymore than you have to walk into a Best Buy or Target and buy new. It's your choice.

If you have a problem with the buying and selling of used games, then don't buy or sell used games.

Again, I may hate GameStop, but there's nothing wrong with trading used items. If game publishers are mad that they're losing sales to the used market than they out to make some better games people aren't so willing to sell off for 45% of their purchase price.
NihonTiger90's Avatar
NihonTiger90 at 07/30/2008 16:16
If we ban used games, everyone besides Gamestop goes out of business. And I don't want to live in a world like that.
A New Challenger's Avatar
A New Challenger at 07/30/2008 16:20
GameStop for whatever reason has been incredibly successful at convincing people that they should trade in games they've just purchased for games that others have traded in. It happens in other areas, but not to this extent. That quote is stupid and unthinking. What I'm worried about are the ways game companies are going to react to stem this problem (from their perspective) if they feel the need to address it. For example, moving exclusively to digital distribution presents a lot of problems for the consumer that have been brought up before. There are times when I enjoy purchasing and downloading a game, but I would be dismayed if that were my only option.

Then there are even more consumer-unfriendly methods potentially in the works. Remember before the PS3 came out and there were rumors and worries about the PS3 automatically locking games to the console once they were played on it, so that no other PS3 would be able to read the disc? Thankfully I doubt such a blatant tactic would be tolerated by consumers, but the mere whiff of that possibility was enough to make me stop and consider whether I would give up gaming as a regular hobby.
SilverDragon1979's Avatar
SilverDragon1979 at 07/30/2008 16:21
Interesting timing on this article Jim. I actually just wrote a blog post earlier today about why you shouldn't buy or trade used video games. You should check out my arguments.
kalidanthepalidan's Avatar
kalidanthepalidan at 07/30/2008 16:26
Haha, that Braben fellow makes me laugh.

Used things...they is intolerable.
Remo's Avatar
Remo at 07/30/2008 16:33
this fool is quite the fool.
Sachin Agarwal's Avatar
Sachin Agarwal at 07/30/2008 16:56
The right of first sale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine) is a key part of law. But it's not enshrined in the constitution. If they wanted to - the media creators could force through laws that would make it harder to sell the stuff you legally bought. It's important not just to mock these guys, but to actively fight against them.

Now, let's get to the argument. One, there are a lot of people who sell their games to GameStop, on eBay, on Dawdle, or wherever else to *buy new games*. It was quantified as over a billion dollars at the GDC convention. (Like ATM machine, sue me.) Two, there are people who can't afford $60 for a new game, and the sale of used goods lets them enjoy your work, buddy. The car analogy is a great one - no one is going to suggest that banning used car sales is a good idea. Why should it be the same for entertainment? We have the right to pursue happiness, and if playing games makes someone happy, who are you to stop them from doing so in the same manner that someone who needs a car to get to work gets one?

OK, I'll stop my rant now. But I am sick and tired of people putting up roadblocks for people to do the things they've always done just because it suits some narrow special interest.
Cowboy TTop's Avatar
Cowboy TTop at 07/30/2008 17:01
Sorry Braben, I disagree.

I think to begin with, if you can buy and sell cars onto second and third owners, why should this be any different for games? Now, I know Gamestation get a lot of money from preowned, and this is why I never trade in my games. If I did want to sell any, I'd use ebay or amazon, or even an ad in the local newspaper. For such sales, we should be looking to cut out the middle man. Maybe then, Braben would zip it.

We should consider ourselves lucky, to be able to rent games, as well as buy and sell our preowned games. In japan, this kind of activity is more or less illegal (to push new sales more, greedy buggers that they can be). If the west is trying to emulate this draconian model, its just not going to happen.

I admit, when hunting for preowned games, I just use ebay.
Blind assassin's Avatar
Blind assassin at 07/30/2008 17:15
Basically: "We want more money for an industry that sells expensive merchandise to being with." If video games were $25 for a brand new title and easily burned then I'd be fine if they didn't sell used ones but when you shell out as much as $70 for a non-special edition of a game they really don't have any excuse to act like pre-owned sales are destroying them. Especially when gaming has had nothing but growth for years now and every other industry that isn't food based allows for product resale.
wadawoodo's Avatar
wadawoodo at 07/30/2008 17:57
i work at cex and this is massive lols to me!
xe-cute's Avatar
xe-cute at 07/30/2008 18:18
WTF is he on about? Bah, untill he releases a new ELITE all he says is utter crap.


The game industray makes more money than the movie industry.

A game does not cost as much as a movie to make (in most cases) and even if it did... to buy a game new it is like £45 where to see a movie at a cinema or to rent it is like £6 or something (huge price difference).

So therefore... WTF?
Superfluous Moniker's Avatar
Superfluous Moniker at 07/30/2008 18:39
From a sales standpoint, selling used IS basically a rental. And what exactly is wrong with that? Are publishers refusing to sell to Gamefly and Blockbuster? WTF is his problem?

His argument boils down to "I make enough money now, but I could make so much more if we could only take away the rights of consumers!"

If you wanna be greedy, the rich/hardcore will pay more for special editions, which they probably won't sell to Gamestop in two weeks. Try taking advantage of that and leave us poor saps with budgets alone.
aaronf's Avatar
aaronf at 07/30/2008 18:45
This guy needs to team up with Lars Ulrich.
brainderailment's Avatar
brainderailment at 07/30/2008 18:53
pre-chewed sausages? I'm on it!
JustLikeBuck's Avatar
JustLikeBuck at 07/30/2008 19:46
The Pre-Owned game market is proof of at least two things:

1 - In the case of AAA (usually with a year in the) titles going pre-owned in a matter of weeks means they're just not that good to keep. Either not long enough (Halo 3), Not advanced over the previous enough (MadWoodsFL 2007), or just plain bad (Lair).

2 - In the case of older games, it shows people are willing to hunt down and play games that aren't the next big thing. They're the last big thing. Either because they should be cheap, or because they are classics.

Braben can bitch and moan all he wants. But he's part of an industry that's fuelled this market by releasing poor games, and refusing to keep older titles in (even limited) print, or allow other methods of purchase.

As soon as I got my Wii, I went and got about 12 Game Cube games (beyond Twilight Pricess and Wii Sports, Wii talent was pretty weak for a while). Is it wrong I wanted to expand my library; to experience the joys of Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Wind Walker? I Would have bought new, but The Game employee told me they were getting rid of their GC titles.

The GC titles prompted me to follow up my purchase with a PS2 and again, a shed load of pre-owned games; PS3 is out, clear the shelves for Lair!
RJG's Avatar
RJG at 07/30/2008 20:26
I've been meaning to do a piece on this for a while, but I've been busy so...

Basically, Used Games are worse than Piracy. There, I said it. Pirates aren't going to pay for shit. You know this, they know this, so if a pirate downloads something, it's not a lost sale, because they most likely wouldn't have bought it anyway.

Used Game sales on the other hand, take money directly from paying customers, diverting the income from the publisher/developer and straight to the store. EB, Gamestop, these places are not video game stores, that's a front for selling used games where they make their real money, by ripping you off and by ripping off the publishers.

Can you stop it? No. Can you stop piracy? No. Man up and get the fuck over it. Create games people would gladly pay for if it means getting a sequel.
ninjikiran's Avatar
ninjikiran at 07/30/2008 20:31
if people can't sell their games then people will probably buy less new games. I sold Mario Kart Wii for $61, and MGS4 for $40. Afforded me SCIV and a fighting stick I otherwise would of not purchased due to money being low.
c0dek's Avatar
c0dek at 07/30/2008 21:06
this just in...

craigslist is surprised.
Eschatos's Avatar
Eschatos at 07/30/2008 21:23
Yeaaaaaah. That guy is a dumbass.
Jetsetlemming's Avatar
Jetsetlemming at 07/31/2008 04:47
Other industries don't tolerate used sales? Fucking news to me! The few books and movies I don't just rent/get from the library (FREE BOOKS MOTHERFUCKERS) I buy second hand from thrift stores or Goodwill or the library(books) or Gamestop or blockbuster (movies).
Funnily enough, PC Games are the ONLY products (besides food and clothing) I buy new. Huh.
Anus Mcphanus's Avatar
Anus Mcphanus at 07/31/2008 07:19
I don't like buying used games if I can help it because it does hurt the industry somewhat but this guy is clearly just butt hurt
aaronf's Avatar
aaronf at 07/31/2008 14:07
I don't think used games hurts the industry. As the wise Snoop Dogg once said when he was asked about people downloading his music for free on the internet: "Artists should be worried if people aren't downloading your music." Developers should be worried if people aren't playing their games.
xe-cute's Avatar
xe-cute at 07/31/2008 18:04
EBAY 4TW


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