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Mommy, this is a bit poo really!
THe controls took time to get used to as I hated the Poop out of them as well but they felt fluid after an hour or so of playing.
THe controls took time to get used to as I hated the Poop out of them as well but they felt fluid after an hour or so of playing.
Thank you for helping ke figure out why I didn't like killzone. I always thought it felt annoying but I couldn't figure out why.
I also agree that the PS3s stick are hard to use. I always find myself aiming badly when playing shooters on PS3
I also agree that the PS3s stick are hard to use. I always find myself aiming badly when playing shooters on PS3
From someone who plays a lot of FPS games, the FOV is a peculiar thing... bigger is not always better. Having a tight field of view simply suits some games much better and it does make the game feel faster, more reactionary, more intimate. The larger the FOV, the more you are getting towards on OTS (over the shoulder) viewing sensation or even a TPS (Third Person View). Pulling the FOV out and being able to see more lends itself to more strategic gameplay as it often lends itself to sitting at a corner and being able to see "around" the corner. Being able to see enemies from peripheral or side vision allows you to take defensive (or offensive) action, but it also takes away that surprise feeling when somebody shows up directly in front of you and you never saw them coming.
He's just trying to sell his game, fine... talk about the FOV and how it works with his game, but I think he's wrong about Killzone. It has a narrower FOV for a valid reason and it works. The game feels better and plays better for it.
He's just trying to sell his game, fine... talk about the FOV and how it works with his game, but I think he's wrong about Killzone. It has a narrower FOV for a valid reason and it works. The game feels better and plays better for it.
I will agree that the PS3 controller is not suited for FPS games compared to the 360 (level sticks aren't as precise), but Killzone 2 was a fine game anyway.
Also what is Bodycount?
Oh, it's a game by the makers of Black? You mean the worst FPS game I've ever played, including Daikatana, where the supporting casts consists of "guy, guy with a shotgun, guy with a rocketlauncher?"
Why is this guy allowed to talk? That's like MacDonalds calling Red Robin shit.
Also what is Bodycount?
Oh, it's a game by the makers of Black? You mean the worst FPS game I've ever played, including Daikatana, where the supporting casts consists of "guy, guy with a shotgun, guy with a rocketlauncher?"
Why is this guy allowed to talk? That's like MacDonalds calling Red Robin shit.
oh man, a war is about to start. But before it gets too crazy, I have to say that I own all three consoles, and I like both controllers, but my controller of choice is still the dualshock over the 360 controller. I think all it comes down to is preference and what you yourself are comfortable with. I for one am WAYYYY more accurate with a Dual Shock that the 360 controller, but that's probably just cuz I'm more used to it. So yeah, you can't really blame the controller for something you are not really used to. And plus, the 360 controller's DPAD is fucking horrible. So yeah, I guess it evens out or something lol.
I like this guy.
Still can't get over the fact that I recall everyone considering Black being "meh" at best when it was released, though.
Still can't get over the fact that I recall everyone considering Black being "meh" at best when it was released, though.
Almost every new shooter these days, even Left 4 Dead 2, comes with a FOV that works a lot, LOT better with televisions than on computer screens (and it's still absolute shit). I can't even play Borderlands without adjusting the FOV to 110 by editing some of the .inf files, because it gives me a headache otherwise.
Playing these games with giant weapons on screen and narrow FOVs is a pain in the ass, and reason enough for me to keep an eye on Killzone 2.
Ideal FOV for a standard "square" monitor is 90. Ideal for a widescreen is a bit bigger than that. Halo and ODST were alright at their settings. Not great, but alright. Halo 2 Vista required me going in and changing the hex codes to make it playable, though.
I'm really annoyed by this "shrink the screen!" trend. I mean, it makes games WORSE. I enjoy Left 4 Dead more than its sequel because I don't get a headache playing it. Why implement a feature that gives me a headache? I do not understand.
Everyone should just stick with 90 or more. I can't stand Bad Company's Default of 55. That's just crazy.
Playing these games with giant weapons on screen and narrow FOVs is a pain in the ass, and reason enough for me to keep an eye on Killzone 2.
Ideal FOV for a standard "square" monitor is 90. Ideal for a widescreen is a bit bigger than that. Halo and ODST were alright at their settings. Not great, but alright. Halo 2 Vista required me going in and changing the hex codes to make it playable, though.
I'm really annoyed by this "shrink the screen!" trend. I mean, it makes games WORSE. I enjoy Left 4 Dead more than its sequel because I don't get a headache playing it. Why implement a feature that gives me a headache? I do not understand.
Everyone should just stick with 90 or more. I can't stand Bad Company's Default of 55. That's just crazy.
Borderlands has the same issue: too tight a POV. I had to greatly increase the tracking speed of the camera to compensate for it.
@Elsa
i really dont agree with you there, i dont find "surprise" as a valid reason for a smaller FOV, specially during online matches
i really dont agree with you there, i dont find "surprise" as a valid reason for a smaller FOV, specially during online matches
ps3 sticks have been as accurate as can be for as long as I used them, I have no idea what this guy is talking about.
and hearing a creator of black call another fps a bit poo........ yeah irony doesnt begin to describe that situation.
and hearing a creator of black call another fps a bit poo........ yeah irony doesnt begin to describe that situation.
Dualshocks haven't comfortably fitted my hands since I was in school. It was one of the biggest points that made me go to the 360 when I chose my first "next gen" console. There is not a single redeeming quality about PS3 controllers in my opinion.
As for FOV, when playing PC games I quite often change the FOV to fit what I'm doing, in Fallout 3 for example, when Sniping I use a smaller FOV than when I'm using a close-quarters character. The ability to change it is awesome and all games should include it on campaign mode.
As for FOV, when playing PC games I quite often change the FOV to fit what I'm doing, in Fallout 3 for example, when Sniping I use a smaller FOV than when I'm using a close-quarters character. The ability to change it is awesome and all games should include it on campaign mode.
Magnalon, if the guy who made Black can't "talk" then why the fuck can you? Also Black is worse than Daikatana? BULLSHIT. Black was okay. Nothing special.
That said, Killzone 2 has some pretty strange view-related problems and the sticks ARE twiddly. These are reasonable criticisms of the game even if they come from some four year old girl's imaginary giraffe friend.
Will Body Count do better? I have no idea. I'm not a huge fan of Black.
But the guy is generally right. KZ2 had a narrow field of view in mostly corridor sized areas where you got attacked when you passed a corner. It had a weird chest-height camera and the controls DID feel sluggish and a little jumpy. I'm not sure that made it "poo" but that is a bit of a judgement call based on how much the flaws bothered him.
That said, Killzone 2 has some pretty strange view-related problems and the sticks ARE twiddly. These are reasonable criticisms of the game even if they come from some four year old girl's imaginary giraffe friend.
Will Body Count do better? I have no idea. I'm not a huge fan of Black.
But the guy is generally right. KZ2 had a narrow field of view in mostly corridor sized areas where you got attacked when you passed a corner. It had a weird chest-height camera and the controls DID feel sluggish and a little jumpy. I'm not sure that made it "poo" but that is a bit of a judgement call based on how much the flaws bothered him.
Well you can tell he's a creative director and not in any way do anything technical. If he was then he would know it has nothing to do with the stick it's the programming.
And Bodycount is what.. Good? It's ridiculous. Killzone and it's story and gameplay is in my mind one of the best.
@Mulk
Obviously I'm referring to the fact that he's calling a clearly superior product shit, when he made what many consider the worst, and most generic FPS of all time.
It's just out of line. If this came from someone who made a respectable product, I see no problems. And yes, Daikatana was ten times more fun than that pile of crap.
Obviously I'm referring to the fact that he's calling a clearly superior product shit, when he made what many consider the worst, and most generic FPS of all time.
It's just out of line. If this came from someone who made a respectable product, I see no problems. And yes, Daikatana was ten times more fun than that pile of crap.
I agree with elsa. I would understand if his game is out and is better but this game is not even out. I finally got killkone 2 last week and I am like it so far. People always complain about styles or controllers but is all about preferences just because something is popular doesn't me everyone need to like it.
I never have any problems with the FOV if its smaller just look around a bit more. of course this can be done a lot faster with superior PC controls but still.
@pl0x... what I'm saying is that FOV makes for different game styles. KZ with it's narrower FOV is a more reactionary game... you have to more quickly and immediately react because you often don't see someone until they are right there. With other games that have a wider FOV, the game is more anticipatory... you have time to make decisions.
It simply lends itself to different game styles. Personally I enjoy games based more on immediate reactions, but it really depends on the gamer. Again, my only point is that FOV is a key part of the game's design (or should be), because it creates a different feel within the game.
It simply lends itself to different game styles. Personally I enjoy games based more on immediate reactions, but it really depends on the gamer. Again, my only point is that FOV is a key part of the game's design (or should be), because it creates a different feel within the game.
@ Elsa. I totally agree with you. You hit it right on the money. And this guy has the nerve to talk smack about other shooters when black was absolutely terrible. And chances are this game will be another Haze. Yeah I said it
I'm dying for another SDF post. But yes, Black is spot on. Killzone 2 was a spectacle at times, but the shooting on it's own was pretty meh.
"what many consider the worst, and most generic FPS of all time"
@Magnalon
who is this "many" you are talkin about?
black was generic but it was far from the worst FPS ever, the game wasnt even bad to begin with
@Magnalon
who is this "many" you are talkin about?
black was generic but it was far from the worst FPS ever, the game wasnt even bad to begin with
I've never had a huge problem with FOV. The only two games I truly hated was BioShock 2 and Borderlands. That was solved with an .ini hack.
Also, PC has superior controls..... just saying. I can't imagine playing L4D2 on XBox 360. Looking up and down with a controller just doesn't work as well as with a mouse.
Also, PC has superior controls..... just saying. I can't imagine playing L4D2 on XBox 360. Looking up and down with a controller just doesn't work as well as with a mouse.
for a guys who game isn't out yet, he has what to say again about a previous game?
here's whats gonna happen, his game comes out, has no story, okay shooting, crap multiplayer and problems that have to be fixed via patches.
here's whats gonna happen, his game comes out, has no story, okay shooting, crap multiplayer and problems that have to be fixed via patches.
Could not agree more. I felt KZ2 had a horrible control layout as well a very limited field of view. I do prefer my FPS on the 360 because of the controller. The 360's analog sticks have a much better feel and are more precise. A half dozen of my friends who own both systems agree with my opinion. I was very disappointed with KZ2. It was one of the first games I bought when I finally picked up a PS3 several months ago. The visuals were decent but they did not blow me away like I thought they would and the gameplay was below average mainly due to my previous complaints. Black hit the nail on the head IMO.
Frankly, the PS3 sticks are rather "poo" for FPS games. They could certainly be improved by giving them a bit more resistance (as well as switching the left D-pad and analog, and going concave instead of convex).
The problem is that too many fanboys are afraid of change, even if that change is an obvious improvement. Some games have good enough calibration to get around it, but in general, this is yet another factor that makes me keep buying multi-platform shooters for my 360 instead of my PS3.
The problem is that too many fanboys are afraid of change, even if that change is an obvious improvement. Some games have good enough calibration to get around it, but in general, this is yet another factor that makes me keep buying multi-platform shooters for my 360 instead of my PS3.
I hate to tell you this, Stuart Black, but DiRT, The Lord of the Rings Online, and Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising were all "a big poo."
@Black Nexus
I'll second that. As someone else said above he's just trying to promote his game by claiming his looks better than Killzone 2 because it has a larger field of view. In reality there aren't very many games that look as good or better than Killzone 2.
As for the controllers.... talk about people being brainwashed. Loose sticks on the PS controller???? WTF. If anything I've always found them tighter. As for the positioning....do people really believe that the half a centimter difference between the dpad and the stick is that huge. Lay a PS controller over a 360 controller and you'll see they're practically the same. Both controllers are laid out about as perfectly as anyone could make them. The only differences I've ever noticed are that the dpad and buttons on the 360 controller are less responsive than a PS controller.
I'll second that. As someone else said above he's just trying to promote his game by claiming his looks better than Killzone 2 because it has a larger field of view. In reality there aren't very many games that look as good or better than Killzone 2.
As for the controllers.... talk about people being brainwashed. Loose sticks on the PS controller???? WTF. If anything I've always found them tighter. As for the positioning....do people really believe that the half a centimter difference between the dpad and the stick is that huge. Lay a PS controller over a 360 controller and you'll see they're practically the same. Both controllers are laid out about as perfectly as anyone could make them. The only differences I've ever noticed are that the dpad and buttons on the 360 controller are less responsive than a PS controller.
Bioshock didn't need a wide FOV because it took place indoors. There were no wide open areas to make use of it. All you would see in Bioshock is a wall some open space in the middle and more wall cuz ur either in a room or a corridor.
He still makes a good point though. I'd love to see more FPS games make better use of the widescreen.
He still makes a good point though. I'd love to see more FPS games make better use of the widescreen.
I've really paid attention to FOV before so my reaction to this guy's comments were: "...eh." The "a bit poo" part was pretty funny.
I thought KZ2 was a lot of fun but not without its faults. Really short main character, kinda sluggish/heavy controls, and running through enemies when you're trying to melee them were among the few.
I thought KZ2 was a lot of fun but not without its faults. Really short main character, kinda sluggish/heavy controls, and running through enemies when you're trying to melee them were among the few.
Can you get one of those kung-fu mouse controllers for 360 now?
Aiming with a stick is no way to treat shooters like serious business.
I normally prefer third-person shooters (though maybe because I can see what my dude looks like and where he's standing) but I don't have problems with Borderlands' narrow FOV either. It doesn't diminish size with distance as much, so you can spot guys farther away.
We'll see how Bodycount turns out. For all Black's talk about getting the guns to feel right I bet it ends up a trainwreck of floaty movement and aiming and muzzleflashes that totally blind you whenever you're shooting... that way it's hilarious if I'm right and still a pleasant surprise if I'm wrong.
Aiming with a stick is no way to treat shooters like serious business.
I normally prefer third-person shooters (though maybe because I can see what my dude looks like and where he's standing) but I don't have problems with Borderlands' narrow FOV either. It doesn't diminish size with distance as much, so you can spot guys farther away.
We'll see how Bodycount turns out. For all Black's talk about getting the guns to feel right I bet it ends up a trainwreck of floaty movement and aiming and muzzleflashes that totally blind you whenever you're shooting... that way it's hilarious if I'm right and still a pleasant surprise if I'm wrong.
People have their own preferences. I get that. This guy obviously prefers a 360 controller. Me personally, I don't. I think the controller feels like shit in my hands compared to a PS3 controller. But I don't go around telling people that because it's my opinion and not a fact. Also, KZ2 is a fine game but is one that requires a little getting use to compared the more fast paced shooters we see in today's market. Just like my controller preference, some people can get use to that change while others can't.
This is the problem that happens when people (or devs spew stuff out their mouths when they don't know what they're talking about. They feed ignorance and fanboyism and propagate untruths.
I can tell you right now, as a veteran joystick and controller user who has used analog controls for shooters for more than a decade, the PS3 controller has some of the best feeling, most precise and smooth analog sticks I've used on a controller. They have a greater sense of precision and range, are smoother because of less resistance, and have less preceptible deadzone area, than the 360's analog sticks, and that extra range of motion and precision, that smoothness and lower resistance, really makes them feel great for precision aiming and long-range sniping in shooters. In an FPS, making subtle aiming adjustments on the fly is key for hitting long-range targets off in the distance, and the PS3 controller's smoothness, range, and lower resistance helps a lot in this regard.
The infamous Kontrol Freek (FPS Freek) add-on works so well by utilizing the same principles and characteristics that are already somewhat inherent and built-in to the PS3 controller's analog sticks, such as increasing range of motion (PS3's sticks have more range than the 360's), increasing the height (PS3's sticks are taller than those on the 360), and decreasing the resistance required to push it around (PS3's sticks have less resistance than the 360's).
I guess since the PS3 controller and analog sticks are so "terribad" or "awful," at least according to Xbox fanboys who want to propagate certain negative myths about the PS3, the Kontrol Freek's FPS Freek add-on should fail monumentally and be completely worthless and useless and not be popular at all (especially in pro gamer circuits) right? Quick Xbox fanboys, send your emails to Kontrol Freek to explain to them how their product is totally flawed!
I can tell you right now, as a veteran joystick and controller user who has used analog controls for shooters for more than a decade, the PS3 controller has some of the best feeling, most precise and smooth analog sticks I've used on a controller. They have a greater sense of precision and range, are smoother because of less resistance, and have less preceptible deadzone area, than the 360's analog sticks, and that extra range of motion and precision, that smoothness and lower resistance, really makes them feel great for precision aiming and long-range sniping in shooters. In an FPS, making subtle aiming adjustments on the fly is key for hitting long-range targets off in the distance, and the PS3 controller's smoothness, range, and lower resistance helps a lot in this regard.
The infamous Kontrol Freek (FPS Freek) add-on works so well by utilizing the same principles and characteristics that are already somewhat inherent and built-in to the PS3 controller's analog sticks, such as increasing range of motion (PS3's sticks have more range than the 360's), increasing the height (PS3's sticks are taller than those on the 360), and decreasing the resistance required to push it around (PS3's sticks have less resistance than the 360's).
I guess since the PS3 controller and analog sticks are so "terribad" or "awful," at least according to Xbox fanboys who want to propagate certain negative myths about the PS3, the Kontrol Freek's FPS Freek add-on should fail monumentally and be completely worthless and useless and not be popular at all (especially in pro gamer circuits) right? Quick Xbox fanboys, send your emails to Kontrol Freek to explain to them how their product is totally flawed!
I bet this guy just has shit peripheral vision and tries to make up for it by adding more to his games. He is hatin on KZ3 because he feels it is mocking him and his tiny field of vision. :( Boo-frickin-hoo.
He does have a point. It's KZ2 devs fault for making R3 as ADS(Aim Down Sights). R3!? REALLY?! Jesus. But the rest more Sony's fault for making such a shitty, un-FPS-friendly controller. This is why I buy my multiplatform releases(especially FPS') on 360. I learned my lesson, KZ2 was my first PS3 game and will probably be my last PS3FPS. Every time I visit my buddy who has MW2 I shiver at the trigger/stick functionality. Then when I get home and play any FPS on 360? It. Just. Works. Right.
How sad is it when users have to vastly modify the Dualshock controller to just make it COMFORTABLE, much less actually FUNCTIONAL?
LOL SONY (seriously though, these seem pretty cool, cheap way to improve the DualShock. /buys them)
How sad is it when users have to vastly modify the Dualshock controller to just make it COMFORTABLE, much less actually FUNCTIONAL?
LOL SONY (seriously though, these seem pretty cool, cheap way to improve the DualShock. /buys them)
Meh I thought Black was overated was overrated If I had a cable connection at the Time I should've spent my monies on MGS3 instead. Oh well, spilt milk and what not.
As far as the whole controller issue goes I find the Xbox 360 controller to fit my long bony hands better than the PS3/PS2 controller does/did, but I think I prefer the layout of the joysticks on the dualshock in certain circumstances.
As far as the whole controller issue goes I find the Xbox 360 controller to fit my long bony hands better than the PS3/PS2 controller does/did, but I think I prefer the layout of the joysticks on the dualshock in certain circumstances.
Patriot Snake, I love you.
Also, I've always had a difficult time using the DS3 controller. Not only do I find the sticks loose, but their layout hurts my hands after more than an hour or so.
Just my preference, of course, but I think the 360 controller is far superior (minus the d-pad, but I don't play fighting games).
Also, I've always had a difficult time using the DS3 controller. Not only do I find the sticks loose, but their layout hurts my hands after more than an hour or so.
Just my preference, of course, but I think the 360 controller is far superior (minus the d-pad, but I don't play fighting games).
Agreed on the point about the dualshock's analog sticks, it's been a problem since the PS1 era. I'd fork out asking price for a revamped dualshock 3 with precision to match the 360s sticks (and vice versa a d-pad on the 360 controller to match that of the dualshock).
He's right about the right stick. I didn't finish Killzone 2 because of that very reason. It was a beautiful game but the weird right stick control annoyed me enough to prevent me from completing it.
@Magnalon
In which case which of those burger joints represents Killzone? Surely not Red Robin, house of the overrated sawdust sandwich.
In which case which of those burger joints represents Killzone? Surely not Red Robin, house of the overrated sawdust sandwich.
@Statix
The thing is, the PS3 controller really is harder to master. People play one and then the other, they'll usually pick the 360 controller because it feels easier to aim on the fly. However, I do agree with you, because if you can master the PS3 controller, then you'll have a more powerful tool at your disposal. This is really a situation where people feel more comfortable with controls that are easier to master, and a smaller option range. I never argue with people who tell me the 360 controller is superior, I just give them a smile and wish them well.
The thing is, the PS3 controller really is harder to master. People play one and then the other, they'll usually pick the 360 controller because it feels easier to aim on the fly. However, I do agree with you, because if you can master the PS3 controller, then you'll have a more powerful tool at your disposal. This is really a situation where people feel more comfortable with controls that are easier to master, and a smaller option range. I never argue with people who tell me the 360 controller is superior, I just give them a smile and wish them well.
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