There has been
a lot of talk on Dtoid lately about the future of PC gaming. Despite the discussion usually starting out over which direction PC games are heading it always ends up with people defending or attacking their preferred platform. I'm just going to lay out some of the realities of PC gaming that many console gamers seem to misunderstand.
In every one of these discussions people say that PC gaming is too expensive and that they can't afford to spend $700 every six months on upgrades to play the latest games. Let me tell you what it really costs.
Four years ago I bought an eMachine from a friend for $300. I then spent $89 on an upgraded video card which gave me a 3.2ghz machine, with a decent video card, and 2 gigs or RAM. I played WoW, CS:S, TF2, Eve Online... any number of games on this ancient piece of crap just fine. Until a couple weeks ago when I decided I wanted an Xbox 360.
I was looking at the cost of the Xbox. It was $450 for the machine, another $40 for an extra controller, $40 for the controller charges, Xbox Live subscription... the cost was adding up fast. That coupled with the fact that I simply couldn't locate a 360 got me to looking at PC's. I ended up finding a pre-built machine that suited my needs for around $700. A little bit more of an investment than a 360 would have cost me but I'm also not just getting a gaming machine.
It came with a Radeon HD 2400 xt video card, which is capable of playing everything out there. I have a 2.4ghz quad core processor, 3gb of RAM and a 500GB HD. So far I run Obvlivion, CoD4, Kane and Lynch... all perfectly well. The games that I used to play on my old machine like TF2 are insane now. On full high settings with TF2 I run a steady 60-64 FPS. Not to mention I didn't have to buy a new copy of any of my games, I just re-installed them.
There is no need for me to spend $600 on a new video card every six months. In the future if I decide I want a better video card I can get a 8800GT for $239.00 before mail in rebates. Who knows how cheap it will be at the time I decide to upgrade.
Now if I had taken the time and energy to build a PC myself, I could have made one for the same price that would far out perform the one I bought. I just didn't feel like doing that.
I fully understand that some people don't want to deal with upgrading, dealing with drivers, wondering about if their system will run a certain game or not. I realize the appeal of console gaming. All I'm pointing out is that the cries of how expensive it is to game on a PC are bullshit. Yeah, if your computer hasn't been upgraded in five years you're going to have to spend some money... but I didn't see you all complaining when the gaming console you bought five years ago couldn't play the titles released for this generation.
Remember, just because new technology is released (like that $700 video card everyone keeps talking about) doesn't mean you NEED to buy it. It's a luxury, something that isn't needed.
Just because some company makes a super charger that will work on your 2002 Toyota doesn't mean you need to buy it. That car will still get you around town.
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I think the gaming alliance or whatever should come up with basic specs that pc games can run at medium with and only upgrade them every 4 years. That way the hardcore tech people can still have a reason to buy new tech to run the higher settings but people are guranteed for at least 4 years to have a pc that can run games at medium settings.
Take a look at the post about the percentage of legal copies on COD4 online. Anyway your PC might've cost you 700 dollar now but it isn't going to last you 4 years.
I'd rather have a piece of shit pc that i could just use word and email on and have console than a gaming rig that needs constant upgrading.
But it WILL last me four years. Like I said, I had the same eMachine (which is a shit PC to begin with) for years and it was still letting me play games like TF2. In four years when the next generation of games is out I'll just need to upgrade the video card for $100-$200, then I'll be good to go. "Constant upgrading" isn't accurate and is the type of statement that I was talking about in my post. It's like saying you need to constantly buy a new console because one comes out ever handful of years.
Another thing I think people fail to take into account is that if you are going to include all those extra PC costs, you might as well tack on the cost of an HDTV to the cost of a PS3 or 360, since you need one to get the 'full' experience.
For example, dead rising is neigh unplayable on an SD-TV you can't read any of the tiny fonts.
We should really start up a PC alliance of some sort to combat this PC ignorance. Another thing people don't take into consideration is that I can tweak and overclock my PC. If a 360 game is running like ass can anyone go into their 360s BIOS and overclock their CPU or GPU? No sir they can't.
So as the years go by instead of buying another graphics card I can go ahead and overclock its GPU. And if I want to be safe I can spend $50-$60 and buy a GPU heatsink so that I am sure it won't fry. No RROD for me
"you might as well tack on the cost of an HDTV to the cost of a PS3 or 360, since you need one to get the 'full' experience".
Not necessarily, most new computer monitors can be used with Xbox/Ps3 so that's a wash and I bet most consumers aren't buying HDTVs for xbox, it's already in the house.
So all those people who talk about wanting to sit on their couch instead of a sitting at a computer desk to play games are using 20" PC monitors?
Man that must be a horrible picture from across the room. Sorry, but I don't buy your argument. Technically as long as you have the proper hook-up you could use a PC monitor from the 90's as your 'TV' for a console.
As far as people already having an HDTV, I'll be some do, but others don't as well. If you are going to needlessly include various PC parts into a general price that you don't need or could get cheaper otherwise, I might as well include an HDTV into the cost of an HD console.
Disclaimer: I own an HDTV, Wii, 360, and gaming PC
You played Crysis on this rig yet?
Define "...all perfectly well"? I take it you're playing at max resolution with max details on with every game you're playing? The reason I ask is that your standard of quality may be different from the next guy. Someone that wants to play with max details on for each new game that comes out *might* have to upgrade more often to keep a good framerate.
No one is naive enough to believe you *need* to buy a new super-hyper-ultra-awesome Nvidia 100000GTX card every year, but if you want to maintain playing brand new games at a max detail/bumpmap/smoke/etc levels, you may have to.
Also with the exception of a few games, most games are equally playable in SD and HD. I just got a HDTV and love it, but the game experience hasn't changed at all. It just looks more high-res.
Then again, games are cheaper on the PC and online is usually free. And RTS and MMO games are unplayable on a console, so you need a PC anyway (Starcraft 2 anyone?). I'm a big fan of both formats and their specific types of games: I like to play Burnout on a big tv, while I enjoy an RTS fine on a 19" monitor. I can see how most young people with only a pc for surfing/chatting and a nice tv with a low income would go for a console first though.
Thats fine, just don't say I need to get that $700 Nvidia card to enjoy games on the PC then ;)
I'm just trying to point out that it works both ways. If you say I need a ridiculous graphics card to enjoy games on a PC, well then I think you need an HDTV to enjoy a PS3/360.
I remember a time, and it wasn't that long ago, when people bought games to play them and immerse themselves in a story, somewhat like a movie, but a long movie of cause :D
what happened to those times?
You played Crysis on this rig yet?
Define "...all perfectly well"? I take it you're playing at max resolution with max details on with every game you're playing? The reason I ask is that your standard of quality may be different from the next guy. Someone that wants to play with max details on for each new game that comes out *might* have to upgrade more often to keep a good framerate.
No one is naive enough to believe you *need* to buy a new super-hyper-ultra-awesome Nvidia 100000GTX card every year, but if you want to maintain playing brand new games at a max detail/bumpmap/smoke/etc levels, you may have to.
"I'm just trying to point out that it works both ways. If you say I need a ridiculous graphics card to enjoy games on a PC, well then I think you need an HDTV to enjoy a PS3/360."
I know what you're *trying* to say...but I can use my $180 PC monitor to play 360 games too.
Of course, we could then go into arguing over what constitues a quality sound system for both PC and console...But again, it's a wash because sound systems work on PC and console.
Yes I've run Crysis at 1280x720 (that's the max resolution on my monitor), using the recommended settings for my PC. It looked great. I was getting 45fps during non-action moments, it dropped to around 30fps during action. When I overclocked my card the fps stayed about the same during non-action parts but only dropped to around 38fps during action moments. My card temp never went about 34C, but then I keep my house really cold and it's snowy outside right now.
I don't believe it's an issue of being naive, I think it's ignorance. Usually the people making these outrageous claims about the cost and performance of gaming on a PC are the ones who haven't really tried it or owned an up to date PC in years or ever. As for all the settings on high and at max resolution... in more cases than not the high settings on a new PC game look better than they do on any console. Not only that but come on, like I wasn't waiting for someone to drop the "Crysis bomb" on me? So even if I'm not running it at max resolution, it's one game that I'm not. If you're trying to say that because I can't run Crysis at full bore means that the "PC loses" then I would be free to say that the consoles lose because the FPS's for them aren't optimized for keyboard and mouse setup.
Enough nitpicking.
"If you are going to needlessly include various PC parts into a general price that you don't need or could get cheaper otherwise, I might as well include an HDTV into the cost of an HD console."
I'll let you include that if you want to discuss lifecycles of PC vs. consoles.
I can play a PS2 game from almost 8 years ago on my launch PS2 (that I bought 8 years ago) and a game from this year on the very same same PS2 and it works perfectly.
Can you play a game from 8 years ago on a PC that you bought 10 years ago AND still play a game like Crysis at max details? How many times in the last 8 years have you had to upgrade to keep playing games at your level of acceptability?
I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing...I have a semi-decent PC that can play most older titles, but I got out of PC gaming because I found I *NEED* to play with details and such turned on and up so it got very expensive to keep up with all the new games and their requirements.
True, it's not as approachable. That's not what I was talking about though. I was discussing the cost of PC gaming.
As far as how much work and such are involved in PC gaming versus console gaming, you're right. It is easier to plug a console into your TV and play away. However if I'm spending several hundred dollars on a gaming device (PC or console), if something goes wrong, like suddenly it won't work... I want to be able to crack open a case, see what's wrong, drive to the parts store, spend a few bucks and fix the problem.
Just another advantage that people seem to over look.
"Can you play a game from 8 years ago on a PC that you bought 10 years ago AND still play a game like Crysis at max details?"
No, but then again a PS2 isn't going to play a game like Crysis either, so I don't see your point. I could however play a game from 8 years ago on a ten year old PC... as long as it was IBM Compatible (or is that reference older than ten years, my memory is foggy in my old age).
words of the wise
The PC is a continuously evolving platform, if you consider console gaming as a whole, you could say the latest games stopped being on the PS2 the day the 360 was released.
Games like Audio Surf and Sam & Max will run just fine on older machines, while games like Crysis certainly won't, and you can compare that to how games are still being released for say, the PS2 vs games on the 360/PS3.
The longest Ive had a PC last is 5.5 years, and it could have lasted longer if developers had continued to support older DirectX versions. Hell my 5.5 year old rig would run Oblivion, but because the shader options didn't work well with the older versions of directX the textures were mis-shaded and warped.
Acceptability is ~35 fps settings on low/medium for me. People seem to forget that it really doesn't matter if you can run every game that comes out with 16x AA, 2200 resolution, highest detail settings, and get 60+ fps.
That rig that lasted 5.5 years cost me $1100. You can get a lot more out of a PC than you might think considering how fast the platform moves if you make good parts choices.
If you can find me a machine with specs simlar to yours, for under $600, witout a monitor you win an e-pat on the back. It doesn't have to come together just find me the individual parts and the website they come from.
We haven't even started talking about the performance leaps over consoles that PC's will take once developers really start working with utilizing multi-core processing, which is becoming standard/very inexpensive on new PC's.
People seem to have some phobia that electronic parts will burst into flames if they touch them. I made a list of parts for Hitorogashi a few weeks ago if you want them. Total price was I believe $700, depending on what choices you made part wise.
PM me if you want the list w/links to buy all the parts.
Another word to the wise when it comes to the graphics card market YOU DONT NEED TOP OF THE LINE. Only a moron who wants to extend his epeen goes for the extreme top of the line cards, when most of the time they only have a 10-15% difference to the mid range. So a 8800 GTS, I'm sure you'd rather spend the $250 for that then fork out another $250 for something just a 'little' bit better. Even then you don't NEED to go for that card, there are cards from 3-4 years ago that still run alot of the games today just fine, or you can go with todays equivalent for most of those older cards and they actually run better. And you can get those cards for around $100-150 (8600 GT ddr3 ram), hell and those cards are better than the 7800 I got now.
And never go with a dual core 3.0 system. You can get a 2.6 core 2 duo system for half the price with almost the same performance level. And you can easily get a case w/ a 550 watt power supply for like $60. And a TB hd? I have never come close to needing that much space and have you ever seen how many games I own? lol, just search back a couple of blogs back.
In the end everyone usually tends to think that you need to buy mountains of shit and upgrade constantly. But thats not the case, this is the wonderful thing about PC's YOU CAN RECYCLE ALOT OF SHIT! I'm still using my case, powersupply, hard drives, keyboard, monitor, speakers from over 4 years ago and they are all still going strong and will probably be around for another 2 or 3. You don't need to upgrade everything, play it smart ;).
And really the prices in the end are about the same, if anything the difference between the two is so little that these arguments become retarded. Id say its more down to personal preference more than anything else. PC Gaming is NOT that expensive, if you go through dell and shit like that of course it will be, they always overcharge shit. But to go your own route, which is even better because you have more freedom to own the system you WANT, it cost much less.
Considering I only spent ten minutes looking and only used one site to find parts here is what I came up with. The total cost was $403.94, not including rebates. I found the dvd/cd drive, case, ram, cpu, HD, and video card. I didn't take the time to find an acceptable mother board, but you could find one for $100-200 if you wanted depending on what you want out of it. That would put you at $603.94 and this setup would basically play everything the same way (give or take due to only ten minutes of looking) the same way my rig does.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103226
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125076
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211165
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148262
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147010
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135147
now if you were to upgrade any specific part what would it be.
(hoping he secretly finshes my shopping)
Yeah it's good stuff. My old favorite was Thompson's Computer Warehouse, not so much for the prices but because it was like 10 minutes from where I worked. I could go online, order a part for pick up, grab it on lunch break and have it home. They closed though. =(
My other favorite is www.microcenter.com. They have some REALLY good prices on some things, not so good on some others. The reason this is one of my favorites, again, is because they have a huge store like eight blocks from my house. I love walking through the shelves and just looking at all that sweet potential (the parts, not the 17 year old Puerto Rican girls who work the customer service desk).
I'm starting to think that Tragic Hero's suggestion of a Dtoid PC alliance wouldn't be such a bad idea. Our motto could be "We were fragging people while you were still blowing in cartridges"
Secret clubhouse is the TF2 server :x
Which by the way I haven't seen you on in a while ;)
I love microcenter too. There's one about a mile or two from where I work. As a nerd, it's hard to walk in there without buying something.
i agree that it doesn't cost that much to maintain a perfectly good set up on your computer. I have all 3 consoles and i still wouldn't give up my PC for anything.
If you were really serious about building a PC, I wouldn't use that exact list I made. While the specs on some parts are similar (and sometimes better), you'd want to find parts that are optimal for each other. I just took a look at the parts available and picked an average priced option for what was needed in most cases.
However if you were to use this as a basic template for getting started I wouldn't worry so much about upgrading a specific part for a lump some of money. I'd focus on spreading out the extra cash you felt like spending on better starting parts all around... $50 here, $75 there. It would give you an all around better machine.
If you really wanted to upgrade one thing, I'd say go with a better video card. The one listed works well (and can be overclocked through the driver control panel), but if you REALLY want to push things now and in the future spend a few bucks in that direction.
He eventually sucks it up and heads over to Best Buy to get a new graphics card. He drives home ready to pop it in so we can get to playing, but there's a problem. His computer isn't compatable with the newer graphic's card. Lame.
Long story short, PC gaming sucks for those who want to simply pick up a game and play. We couldn't enjoy Neverwinter Nights 2 together, because my buddy not only needed a new graphics card, but a new computer as well.
Yeaaaah, I've been missing from the Dtoid TF2 server lately. We had a team tournament going on another server and I got really caught up in that, especially after getting the new PC.
I'll be around, don't worry. =)
That's like saying cars suck compared to taking a train because one time you had a friend that ran out of gas and put kerosene in his gas tank instead of unleaded.
If he had taken a few minutes to look at his computer and figure out what it would accept I'm sure he could have bought a video card that not only worked with his computer, but with NWN 2.
Also, if his computer was that out of date you can't blame the computer. That would be like me saying Xbox sucks because one time a bunch of friends and I got together to play Halo 3, but when I put Halo 3 into my first gen Xbox it wouldn't play... what a piece of shit!
Advances in game engine design, just to name one, are primarily made in the pc market where such a limitation is not made. Saying you want something like that is like sticking an artist in a room and telling them to crank out masterpieces using only the tools you provide and not giving them room to experiment.
Almost all next gen advancements on the console side are done through experimentation with pc technology. You try writing a new physics simulation algorithm using only the processing power required to play every other pc game out there. In the mean time, I'm going to say fuck off to whomever slaps me with those sorts of limitations.
Best Buy sucks for PC gaming anyway...Newegg FTW!
Seriously, it all depends on who you buy from and what you buy. Some people think oh I can just upgrade my graphics card but sometimes you can't you have to upgrade the motherboard too. It's a whole process and well if you don't know what you're doing you should probably just stick to dell who can do it for you.
people who complain are just mad they can't run Crysis ;)
I don't mean cost here I mean variety, something which the PC lacks in spades, the 3 dominant genres on the PC are FPS, RTS and MMO's with Maxis keeping the sim market alive.
Occasionally the PC market gets an RPG thrown their way but outside of that its the same thing, Bioshock, Crysis, Unreal Tournament III, Orange Box, all shooters and these where the "big" releases of 07 with the Witcher being a suprise hit and a great RPG, last great RPG before that one? Oblivion. A year between good RPG's on the PC, not even Nintendo's consoles have it that bad.
And no, retro stuff doesn't count, I'm talking about fresh new content, maybe some of you are happy with playing TF2 over and over but I'm not, I like variety, I like playing some DMC, then some turok followed by some Lost Odyssey, if I get bored of that I Puirsuit Force to keep happy, 4 genres across 2 machines with new titles of varying degrees coming out all the time.
The PC market has none of this, cost has nothing to do with it for some, my PC guru friend could make me a PC that run most games at medium settings for about 600 dollars since he gets parts cheaper, if I ever had that kind of money I would drop it on more games or a Wii, simply put, the PC market sucks now and there is nothing interesting on it nor is there anything in the near future. You look consoles and the future is much brighter with a much bigger variety of games.
Do games look much better on an HD? Of course, does it matter? No.
Action Adventure - well there are other adventure games, Assassins Creed got ported, there will undoubtedly be a release of GTA IV. Theres also all of the prince of persia games
A lot of racing games get ported
RPGs (NonMMO)
Not to mention the slew of indy games and other oddities like Gary's Mod. Do a little back research before you claim the PC gets nothing. It may excel at 3, but it is far from having nothing in other genres.
Considering the slew of trash that comes out on consoles, Id rather have 1 excellent game on a PC for every 4 mediocre games on a console.
i agree with most of the comments and of course with youkilledmyguy.
behind the pc gaming bashing there is nothing else than ignorance. Most of you have said it, a console is not a cheap deal either, online on the 360 is ridiculous, not only is expensive, but the servers are not even dedicated!!
Im tired of trying of talking this nonsense with a friend of mine who is a cheap bastard. His pc is more than ten years old. I mean, if you want technology to last you forever you are on the mistaken.
I get your analogy, but you should understand that not everyone is tech savy. My friend and I aren't tech junkies, we don't know jack about specs and all that jazz. All we do know is that we want to play a game, we want to play it then.
Also, his computer is probably a 2003 model? I remember he used it to play both WoW and FFXI and both palyed fine on his machine. Now he has to drop a grand on a new computer and graphics card just to play Neverwinter Nights 2? No thank you.
*ahem* No Variety?
Current PC games I play:
Audiosurf (this is almost impossible on a console if only because a console is so proprietary).
Civ IV (I bet the Civ on the consoles won't be half as playable as the PC version, that or they'll get dumbed down loads)
The Witcher (Great RPG which comes from a non-japanese and non-english speaking country which it shows and is all the better for it)
Sam and Max (Adventure gaming FTW)
TF2 (Best played on a PC)
Portal (See last comment)
That's just what I'm playing now and besides the OB games it's all PC exclusive and also non-FPS/RTS.
What I'm looking forward to:
Starcraft II (No explanation needed)
Spore (Even if there will be console ports, you KNOW the game was designed for the PC)
Mass Effect (A bit late but I'm willing to bet that the 360 performance problems will not affect me)
No variety you say?
Meh