(I am only writting on the Shin Megami Tensei titles i have played before, if there are some that are not so hateable please let me know.)
Yeah. that scene look a little familiar to you? If you've ever played any Shin Megami Tensei title. Then yes, this is this should look slightly familiar. For one reason or another the developers behind some of the most dark and sinister titles, thought to make the main character the most important party member in any fight. For those who havent played a SMT title before reading this, if the main character is taken out in battle you instantly recieve a game over.
-No party members can revive you
-No Scape Dolls (for those who have played Phantasy Star Online)
-No mercy. period.
Now yes i understand, the main character is central to the story. But honestly, a developer who understands the easy frustrations of the audience he/she plans to appropriate this to would NEVER have such a devious mechanic.
For instance, before writing this blog i was enjoying myself playing SMT: Nocturne (The video above) battling all kinds of vile creatures. When suddenly i had a random battle between myself (and my party of 3 other formidable demons) against one enemy. My odds are good for victory yes? You better believe it. Now i am a suave cocky mofo who enjoys toying with my enemies much as a cat does with a mouse (can i get an amen?) so instead of just using magic attacks and ending it quickly, i decide to use physical attacks. The attacks dont kill the enemy, as i expected, and it prepares for its own slue of attacks. It recieves two moves, two critical hits, and focused BOTH of those attacks at my main character KILLING HIM INSTANTLY. When i came to (I blacked out from rage overdose) i saw that game over scene. Why singular enemy, why? I had three other fine demons for you to ravage, but you decide to go for my shirtless tatted self.. and ruin my unsaved game up to that point..
...The worst part is... this has happened to me one too many times with all the MegaTen titles i own....
Prior to 2008 i had not much interest in RPGs, then i played FF7 for the first time and my pallet along with my pants were soaked, i had to play more. I quickly snatched up all the different RPGs i could but became especially attached to the MegaTen series due in fact to their unorthodox storylines, suggestive themes, and the Pokemon-esque style of game play. Catch a wild demon, able to use wild demon. I loved it and still do. But Final Fantasy allowed me to revive Cloud if he perished in battle! FF10 even allowed that dork titus to die all the fucking time and i loved it! Then Auron could be more awesome than he already was without this annoying Meg Ryan lookalike stinkin' up the party lineup!
Which brings us to another issue: The lack of switch out on the main character. Persona, nope your character is the leader because youve got a fat head full of personas. SMT: Nocturne, nuh uh even though you have up to 15 demons with you at a time, you cant just call the shots from behind the party lines. pssh no way... Devil summoner, aw kmon its called DEVIL SUMMONER. You should be able to throw out one of those little oni-vials and just let the violence take hold without your puny human character having to get involved. Other party-based ArPeeGees allow for switch out, why do you have to be so different MegaTen? This brings me to three different possible conclusions as to why i continue to come back and play these abusive titles:
- i love to be abused?.... I am a Sonic the FAILhog fan after all..
- I'm not hardcore enough to tell MegaTen that i dont wanna see it anymore?
- Or dispite the pain and anger, MegaTen and I can fight about our differences and have some angry makeup sex?
if you picked the third option, you are correct! Despite our differences such as MegaTen's inability to be kind to me and my main character we always come together and remeber why we're perfect together...
- Its an RPG series that takes on the controversial issues, is chock-full of demons and creatures of mythos, and always keeps me interested. Also Mara (CAUTION: POSSIBLY NSFW)
Well, I dunno about Nocturne, but I've happened upon something that saves you with 1HP once per battle when you take fatal damage in P3FES. And there are the items to save you from Hama/Mudo too...
As for the main character dying = game over, I think it's because (in the case of the Persona games), being able to store so many in your head is fine and all when you're alive and not sucking the floor for your last breath. When you take severe damage, all of the Personas in your head go wild, and you pretty much have a nuclear explosion in your mind. They can revive you physically, but you'd be a vegetable.
Someone wrote about this subject for a monthly musings. I think it was called "The Fear: Instant death spells in Shin Megami Tensei". This really frustrates me. I like how in Persona 4, if you play on beginner, you start out with 10 "Moon Tsukubus" that revive the main character, they took out a lot of stress out of that game.
I haven't played Nocturne (yet), but I hear that it is one of the harder SMT games. I would have no problem if Atlus fixed this issue. Atlus's games are already long enough as is, I don't need to be put into annoying fights with one shot kills.
Great blog, I love Atlus!
And yes, Mara really is the greatest Persona of all time :)
well that is a possibly logical explanation for why, but i ment more along the lines of having a party member use a revival bead on you when you faint out rather than just getting a game over. and also im still early into P3FES so i havent gotten that blessed item yet. Whats it called?
@ GARISON
oh really? i havent checked the c-blogs in a long time. Just came back from a long absence. Persona 4 is the one that im not currently playing, due to the high amounts of yellow (I cant look at the screen for too long lol). And yes Nocturne is a bitch, i love it though and its definetly worth a play through if you are an Atlus fan.
I absolutely LOVE Persona 4's art style. I think they executed the look of the game perfectly. From the bright Oranges and Yellows, to the alternative music constantly playing, in my eyes, they couldn't have done anything wrong with the art for that game.
(Also, I listen to the soundrack on my iPod constantly :)
P4 somewhat helps reduce immediate MC death by having you other party members take the blow for you once your social link gets to a certain level. Not always dependable but I've been in situations where I was thankful for it.
Like Redzie said, Persona 4's party members are amazing and will take hits for your main character if he's low, they also toned down the use of instant death spells (or at least when I played it).
But yes, Nocturne can be a bitch, I just started replaying the game because I never finished it. Don't you love it when you get into a random battle with a horde of enemies who get their turn first, then they use an attack all elemental spell that just one of your party members is weak against, then they just keep casting it till everyone's dead? Most deaths you can prevent, but sometimes they just come out of nowhere.
I -think- in the Digital Devil Saga games, your main character can die just like any other party member, haven't played it though, so I could be wrong. I ordered the first one, so hopefully I'll get it before I finish Nocturne.
It's a really crappy way to lose time in your life. All that progress... At least have the party left get controlled by AI and revive you if it gets a chance.
I like to think that the main character's immunity to revival is an extension of his powers that separate him from his party. That way it still feels unfair but at least there's a good reason.
God i really wish i could play P4 guys.. but due to the color scheme (i shit you not) i can barely watch someone else play it. It seems like it solves my problem, but stacks another problem on: The physical ability to play the game.
sekrit: my eyes are hyper sensitive to light, all throughout high school i wore aviators practically 12 hours a day. Inside the school and outside, i was one cool mofo.
Save more and stop taking chances. It's your fault you died on that one, dude.
There's always a reason why you can't be revived in Megaten games, the most common being that your allies are demons and are only under your control because you can crush their heads in with your hands. Once you're dead, they have no reason to stay and fight.
In Persona 3 and 4, it ties back to your status as the Wild Card and Fool, and especially the contract you signed in the beginning. Basically, Excel's got it right.
Persona 1, 2, and Digital Devil Saga allow your whole party to die because none of the above held true. In both games your allies are people who care about you, and the main character wasn't special and uber-powerful.
In short: suck it up and stop taking chances. The whole poit of these games is to play in a manner that prevents you from dying, not to sit there taunting death.
Heh, indeed, that's part of what separates SMT from a lot of other RPGs - you can't "tool around" much without getting your backside handed to you. It is kind of interesting how RPGs get a lot of flack for being too easy to play "on autopilot," but tougher entries like these are also criticized for being frustrating (which, granted, they sometimes are...darn those critical hits!) - guess you can never please everyone.
Dude. calm down i was just venting. i know how to play an RPG especially one that doesnt allow constant saving. And i do save often i was just underlining the frustrations i face, Ill read your blog on it when ive got a chance. thanks.
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about me
WHO AM I?:
Just your average long winded, princess saving, boss beating, enemy defeating, demon summoning, item finding, pokemon catching, world ending, life ruining, puzzle solving, star creating, lazy assassin savior attorney to the gods.
Wii FC Jpn: 6170.4894.3407.0968
PSN: trueb7ue
Brawl Code: 0774.3677.6818 (Its on my jpnwii so lemme know when you wanna play in advance kkbb?)
Favorite Games:
-Killer7
-No More Heroes
-Phantasy Star Online I, II, & III
-Any Pokemon title
-Katamari Damacy
-Electroplankton
-FF7
-Way of the Samurai
-Mr. Mosquito
-Any Tekken
-Any fighting game really lol.
-Any Ace Attorney title
-Animal Crossing
-Cubivore
-Any sonic title (i love the abuse/hate)
Currently playing:
Wii:
- The Munchables!
- Tatsunoko vs Capcom
- Punch Out!
VC/WiiWare:
- BIT.TRIP.BEAT
- Earthworm Jim
- Takeshi's Challenge
Nintendo DS:
- SMT: Devil Survivor
- Final Fantasy IV
- Taiko No Tatsujin 7 island adventure
GBC:
- Pokemon Crystal
PS3:
- Blazblue
- Fallout 3
- Street Fighter IV
PS2:
- Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha XIV vs King Abaddon
- Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
PSP:
- Monster Hunter Freedom UNITE
Xbox 360:
- Mass Effect
- Guilty Gear XX#Reload
- Beautiful Katamari
- Virtual Fighter 5
my DO WANT list:
-TEKKEN 6
-New Super Mario Bros Wii
-Left 4 Dead 2
-Perfect Prosecutor or as it is now referred to as Ace Investigator
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Well, I dunno about Nocturne, but I've happened upon something that saves you with 1HP once per battle when you take fatal damage in P3FES. And there are the items to save you from Hama/Mudo too...
As for the main character dying = game over, I think it's because (in the case of the Persona games), being able to store so many in your head is fine and all when you're alive and not sucking the floor for your last breath. When you take severe damage, all of the Personas in your head go wild, and you pretty much have a nuclear explosion in your mind. They can revive you physically, but you'd be a vegetable.
Blessed with Suck, huh?
Someone wrote about this subject for a monthly musings. I think it was called "The Fear: Instant death spells in Shin Megami Tensei". This really frustrates me. I like how in Persona 4, if you play on beginner, you start out with 10 "Moon Tsukubus" that revive the main character, they took out a lot of stress out of that game.
I haven't played Nocturne (yet), but I hear that it is one of the harder SMT games. I would have no problem if Atlus fixed this issue. Atlus's games are already long enough as is, I don't need to be put into annoying fights with one shot kills.
Great blog, I love Atlus!
And yes, Mara really is the greatest Persona of all time :)
@ DOOMSDAY FORTE
well that is a possibly logical explanation for why, but i ment more along the lines of having a party member use a revival bead on you when you faint out rather than just getting a game over. and also im still early into P3FES so i havent gotten that blessed item yet. Whats it called?
@ GARISON
oh really? i havent checked the c-blogs in a long time. Just came back from a long absence. Persona 4 is the one that im not currently playing, due to the high amounts of yellow (I cant look at the screen for too long lol). And yes Nocturne is a bitch, i love it though and its definetly worth a play through if you are an Atlus fan.
I absolutely LOVE Persona 4's art style. I think they executed the look of the game perfectly. From the bright Oranges and Yellows, to the alternative music constantly playing, in my eyes, they couldn't have done anything wrong with the art for that game.
(Also, I listen to the soundrack on my iPod constantly :)
P4 somewhat helps reduce immediate MC death by having you other party members take the blow for you once your social link gets to a certain level. Not always dependable but I've been in situations where I was thankful for it.
Like Redzie said, Persona 4's party members are amazing and will take hits for your main character if he's low, they also toned down the use of instant death spells (or at least when I played it).
But yes, Nocturne can be a bitch, I just started replaying the game because I never finished it. Don't you love it when you get into a random battle with a horde of enemies who get their turn first, then they use an attack all elemental spell that just one of your party members is weak against, then they just keep casting it till everyone's dead? Most deaths you can prevent, but sometimes they just come out of nowhere.
I -think- in the Digital Devil Saga games, your main character can die just like any other party member, haven't played it though, so I could be wrong. I ordered the first one, so hopefully I'll get it before I finish Nocturne.
It's a really crappy way to lose time in your life. All that progress... At least have the party left get controlled by AI and revive you if it gets a chance.
But then again, you wouldn't die at all.
I like to think that the main character's immunity to revival is an extension of his powers that separate him from his party. That way it still feels unfair but at least there's a good reason.
God i really wish i could play P4 guys.. but due to the color scheme (i shit you not) i can barely watch someone else play it. It seems like it solves my problem, but stacks another problem on: The physical ability to play the game.
sekrit: my eyes are hyper sensitive to light, all throughout high school i wore aviators practically 12 hours a day. Inside the school and outside, i was one cool mofo.
Save more and stop taking chances. It's your fault you died on that one, dude.
There's always a reason why you can't be revived in Megaten games, the most common being that your allies are demons and are only under your control because you can crush their heads in with your hands. Once you're dead, they have no reason to stay and fight.
In Persona 3 and 4, it ties back to your status as the Wild Card and Fool, and especially the contract you signed in the beginning. Basically, Excel's got it right.
Persona 1, 2, and Digital Devil Saga allow your whole party to die because none of the above held true. In both games your allies are people who care about you, and the main character wasn't special and uber-powerful.
In short: suck it up and stop taking chances. The whole poit of these games is to play in a manner that prevents you from dying, not to sit there taunting death.
Oh, and I'm the on who wrote the blog Garrison was talking about.
http://www.destructoid.com/the-fear-death-spells-in-shin-megami-tensei-105915.phtml
Heh, indeed, that's part of what separates SMT from a lot of other RPGs - you can't "tool around" much without getting your backside handed to you. It is kind of interesting how RPGs get a lot of flack for being too easy to play "on autopilot," but tougher entries like these are also criticized for being frustrating (which, granted, they sometimes are...darn those critical hits!) - guess you can never please everyone.
Great blog.
I didn't see you mentioning the plume of dusk that is an optional revive item in P3. Idk. Maybe it's only available on Easy mode.
You've got excellent taste in games. Can I add you to my friend list here on D-Toid?
@ Gen Eric Gui
Dude. calm down i was just venting. i know how to play an RPG especially one that doesnt allow constant saving. And i do save often i was just underlining the frustrations i face, Ill read your blog on it when ive got a chance. thanks.
@ Dark Mark
You sir are friended.