I've been meaning to start one of these for a while, so with 20 free minutes at work and an outrageous and inconsistent post to respond to, I thought now would be the time. Jim Sterling's
Hating on Casual Gamers Post seems to be born more out of blind anger and frustration that of rational thought. While repeating his wise observation that the difference between casual and hardcore gaming is non-existent, he proceeds to attack one of the halves in the very divide that he has claimed doesn't exist.
It isn't productive to attack so-called "casual games" anymore than it is for the unnamed targets of the post to attack "hardcore games." I agree with the idea that there are only good games and bad games, but it could be more aptly phrased as enjoyable games and not enjoyable games. Ultimately, how enjoyable a game is is what makes it good or bad. Enjoyable games can be so because they look realistic or because the controls are innovative or intuitive, because they are dark and serious or because they are funny. Ultimately, it depends on the gamer and there is room for everyone, which is proved by the expanding game market. Sterling opens up by trying to argue that Metal Gear Solid 4 is experiencing some unfair treatment - it's number 4! The series is one of the longest and most respected in video game history. You know its great, why does it matter if everyone agrees with you? Obviously the industry does as they continue to pump out sequels. What the false divide between casual and hardcore games does is make everyone bitch a lot more (which Sterling claims I like?) because they, like Sterling, claim that the other side is stifling their opinion. It changes the discussion from "Which of these games is better?" to Which of these people is better?"
While it might be entertaining for some to get into never ending dick measuring contests about whose game has the most hardcore premise or best graphics or made the most money, it's not useful or even particularly interesting anymore. The internet is a great platform for ideas and conversations, so these topics are unavoidable, but do we really need it to be shoved down our throats by Destructoid's editorial staff? Why not leave this shit for the message boards? The smart people are the ones who are staying out of the fray and using their time to play all the great stuff thats out there, be it Wii Sports or Metal Gear Solid.
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dude, jim sterling's everything is out of blind anger and NEVER rational thought.. the guy couldn't even figure out how to drive in GTAIV so he bashed it (meanwhile the rest of the planet had no qualms with the driving physics) and and the same time he hypes games like "petz III : dogz in jailz" off the charts, like smaller shittier games that nobody cares about are cool just because of that, not because of the game itself. he knocks all Triple A high profile games and sucks the cocks of all the unknown/uncared for rubbish. the guy is the definition of "HATER". but his posts are amusing i must admit.
Hey fuckface, why you made this blog instead of replying on his article then? Chicken?
The industry follows the tide, if "casual games" are what sell more, then the games we're used to will start to disappear.
You can say goodbye to expensive to produce yet amazing games like MGS4 and hello to cheap Quit Smoking DS shit.
First off, Welcome to Destructoid.
Second - "Ultimately, it depends on the gamer and there is room for everyone, which is proved by the expanding game market."
Absolutely, but I think what Jim is trying to express is that game developers are spending much more time and money developing games that appeal to one crowd: The casual. Which, he feels is unfair. But, I do agree with you though, games should be classified in enjoyable and not so enjoyable. Enjoyable games can be really deep and cinematic, or casual and really fun, and one is no better than the other.Personally, I think it's a good time to be a gamer, period.
Also, THEBZA, Do you even read thoroughly the post Jim makes? Because obviously, you stop when something upsets you and tend to make up the rest to try and make him look bad...
Which, in the end, makes you look like a dumbass.
I'm definitely suffering from some Sterling fatigue. I'll read a fanboy rant, but it should be funny or redeeming in some way. This latest one just seems to be muddying the waters- not giving us a way to understand what's happening in the industry, just assuring people that it's okay to be angry about it.
Maybe people get something out of reading him blow off steam (and I'm sure Jim would cite his pageviews to prove that they do), but I just find it exhausting.
My reply was directed to THEBZA btw.
While repeating his wise observation that the difference between casual and hardcore gaming is non-existent, he proceeds to attack one of the halves in the very divide that he has claimed doesn't exist.
Tell that to my mom who plays Solitaire on Windows and is interested in playing the Wii, but makes fun of every game I play.
Or tell that to my buddies girlfriend who won't play anything other than Guitar Hero.
Or tell that to my PC gaming buddy who refuses to play anything but the most hardcore PC games.
It pisses me off when people DON'T see that there really is a split between casual and hardcore games. The problem is that they aren't well defined. Therefore, writers in the industry are screwed because the entire debate has become such a gray area that no one could win the debate.
To just ignore the obvious difference between certain types of games is just ignorant. I'm glad Sterling is able to see these differences.
I expect this blog to have a meltdown factor of over 50000000000000000000000000000000 due to the intensity of the forthcoming comments
also in other news,
Guys, seriously, play nice, don't let this decsend into a bith-fest.
Correction *bitch*, etc. etc.
"make everyone bitch a lot more (which Sterling claims I like?)"
This blog proves my claim right. :-D
@BREKSHER & KAMAKAZETUTOR
i wasn't even referring to Sterling's latest post, which i agree with... i'm talking about him in general. i found it amazing he was sticking up for MGS4 in this new post, usually if a game is hyped triple-A he automatically hates it (see GTAIV)... and he likes the "arty" games, by that I mean crap that nobody likes, i forgot that some people actuallly buy Dogz PetZ or whatever. i like art too, but he's like the guy in school that only listens to bands that nobody has ever heard of, and if you listen to anything mainstream enough to make it to the radio you suck. that was my point..
I should point out that if my writing is enough to inspire a CBlog (which could have just been a reply to my article rather than your own reply-getter), I must be doing something right.
Also, THEBZA:
Are you serious? Please show me how I hate GTA IV, a game which I called an "unparralleled experience" and rated an 8.0, a score I reserve for great games. Also, I don't know if you're confusing me with Reverend Anthony, but he's the guy who writes about arthouse and indie games, not me.
Please pay attention to my work before you criticize it.
Still waiting on that top-hat/monocle picture Jim.
Oh shit son, THEBZA is called out!
Also, Jim:
I'm not sure how someone making a very awkward reference in one of their sentences can make your claim right. But, if you were meaning to stir up some intelligent discussion, the you did do it right.
@ BUCKF1TCHES: But think of it this way--without "casual" games such as Guitar Hero and the sort they play, they'd make fun of all video games.
I think it's a telling of the age (or in some cases, mindset) of people who hate that games are becoming mainstream through "casual" means. You should be happy video games have come this far--once upon a time, if it was revealed you played video games, you were cast into the same stigma of people who played D&D. Here's a hint: You would not be in the cool crowd.
Honestly, only the Internet generation would complain about their hobby growing. Yes, idiots such as Ubisoft and other companies are wanting to make games such as Beyond Good & Evil 2 "casual-friendly", but for god's sake blame the publishers, not the "casuals". Above all, just take a deep breath; go outside and relax; get laid; do something and calm the hell down. The MGS4s and Bioshocks will not disappear, people.
Oh thunderball, your so trendy and clever for hating a popular writer. So much so I think people should pay more attention to your obviously high quality completely rational blog.
*looks left*
*looks right*
I think he (thunderball) makes a lot of good points.
*runs away*
@ Novakaine
I completely agree with almost everything you said. Blame the publishers, not the crowd they are pandering to.
I'm waiting for E3 to see how hot the new games are.. And, if more disappointment (like a new treadmill or crap) is chalked up in the nintendo column, then many of us predicting more lame/fail games would be right, and more win for the others basically.
I take what sterling says with a grain of salt, and so should everyone else
hes a diehard dynasty warriors fan.
he likes every dynasty warriors game there is, hes no different than a madden fan or a fifa fan.
each game is the same shit and they don't want to admit it.
@ CJPKiLLER
..but he DOES admit it
constantly
I must go read this article.
Dynasty Warriors. Everyone's favorite strawman.
The divide is real, and it's very simple: casual games can be fun, but the vast majority of them are cheap cash-ins on the Wii/DS's type of casual games (often gimmicky minigame compilations), but without any thought put into them. These are flooding the market and are easily able to be classified apart from hardcore games. The problem with this is the fact that, when something like Wii Sports or a licensed casual cash-in make more money than a hardcore, well-made game, publishers have a hard time justifying the high cost and low return of a big budget game that isn't a AAA blockbuster. That is why there is so much concern over the recent prominence of casual games.
To quote Necros:
The divide is real, and it's very simple: casual games can be fun, but the vast majority of them are cheap cash-ins on the Wii/DS's type of casual games (often gimmicky minigame compilations), but without any thought put into them.
What you described isn't a "casual" game, it's a bad game. Lair was a *bad* game, but it was on the PS3, by an established developer. Puzzle Quest is a *good* game, even though it's only Bejeweled. There's not even a casual market -- there's just a market for people who prefer a certain time of game -- puzzles, card games, simple mechanics, etc. If they play them for 5 hours a day and fucking own at them, why aren't they hardcore?
If a person only plays games for half an hour on Saturdays to kill some time, does that make him casual? What if he does that with Team Fortress, just cause he thinks its kind of fun and the matches are quick and the art is nice. It's not the type of game, it's how you play it.
One positive thing I can say about what Jimmy's article stirred up: I've got a good idea of who I can add to my (non-existent) friend list now. =)
@The BZA
You sir, are a fucking moron. He rated it an 8 for fucks sake, that doesn't qualify as hate. He just said that the driving was bad because it was his OPINION.
@Thunderball
Good job good sir. This was actually well written compared to most people who write about something Sterling brought up.
@MUSHMAN
hey believe it or not that pic of marc brown from abc news in LA, rapist search... i took that pic (that's my tv in the picture) and my wife posted it on her blog and hosted it on her photobucket, which then spread across the internet.. i still get a kick at whenever i see someone post it, kinda blows my mind.
@ABORTO
thanks for calling me names big guy, you're obviously tougher than I so i'll back out of this one, thanks.
thebza;
WAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAH JIM HAS AN OPINION, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH