The title of this blog post is a question a buddy of mine just brought up at a forum I go to. I think this is a great question, so I wanted to pass on this conversation and see what you all have to say about this issue as well. His question and my response are as follows...
Question: Original Post
When did playing video games require prerequisites?
I don't mean that in a bad way or anything, but I was milling about over at PSU a while and *everyone* there seems to be a knowledge base of which publisher made what, which developer is working on what, what genre is more popular here or there, etc.
Man, when I got into gaming, it was just all about playing, but today, it almost seems that playing video games comes with an asterisk - "before you can discuss, you must know (place qualifier here).
Do they mandate video game "faq" courses in HS or something?
Answer: My Response
When game companies started making nothing but sequels.
The reason you can't discuss one game without talking about another is because every game is a sequel these days. Sequels create fanboys and it's the fanboys who like to act superior to the new fans of "Game3" just because they played "Game1" and "Game2" also.
You don't see this kind of crap in discussions of original IP's. If you do it's just because some fanboys might try to act superior for having played another game made by the same developer, but that doesn't happen often.
Go to a place like the Atlus forums and take a look at how new fans are treated over there by the long time members. If they make a thread about an older game, the response they get is "welcome to five years ago". This is not a good way to bring new members and fans into the fold and it could turn them off of that forum or other games by the same company. It's not right and there is no excuse for it.
Fanboys are rabid though, they get off on knowing more than you. Who do you blame though? Do you blame the game companies for creating the fanboys, or, do you blame the fanboys for the lack of innovation shown by game companies creating what they know is safe and will sell, thus creating even more fanboys?
It's a pickle I tell you and its bitter taste is growing old.
So... What do you guys think? Have any other takes on the question posed?
I spend little time on forums, I have games to play. The cause of and solution to this problem is this: on the internet, it is really really easy to completely shut out people you don't agree with. So, the solution is to shun these groups of unfriendly people, and find friendly people.
I'm still trying to figure out when I started giving a damn about the industry as much as I cared about actually playing games. Must have been some time after 1996 when I started subscribing to Nintendo Power. I started to learn the names of developers and their histories. I don't think I really gave a damn until 2001 or thereabouts, though, when I had regular Internet access.
So, 2001.
I think the N64/PSX game library disparity also spurred me on to find out wtf was going on.
If you are talking about people being douchebags to others who don't know as much as them about a certain subject, welcome to the life.
There will always be people who "know better" than everybody else, you just learn to ignore those kind of peoples bullshit and continue enjoying what you enjoy, the way you enjoy it, just as you would if they were not there.
Who cares what anybody else thinks, especially if they think their way is the right way, that's their opinion and they can spit it anywhere they want to, just like you can. You just have to accept the fact that your opinion is not lore, that others can have their own opinions and that a difference between either does not mean you have to battle for which one is "right"; they are opinions, that is all.
It stems from our nature to hate casual/noob gamers.
It will all equal out eventually. You don't see to much of it with movie buffs or tv show buffs. One day everything will be blah and no one will give a shit as much as they do now.
To clarify, when we are all 80 years old and still able to carry on a conversation about the industry the youngins will stop putting so much stock into knowing so much because literally everyone and their grandparents will know it.
@falinter:
Actually, in my experience, movie/television buffs can be as elitist as hardcore gamers. I find it difficult to discuss older shows and movies with my contemporaries unless they happen to be in the mood for a retro night or whatever the term is for entertainment.
I play a lot of niche games that reward players with prior knowledge of the mechanics of their predecessors, but I don't think it's as relevant as you say it is. I think the only message of the forums that disparage members with little knowledge of these games is "lurk more". It's not too much to ask for, in my opinion, as a little research can bring you a long way when discussing a game. I actually have never played a lot of the games I discuss; I just read a lot about them on Wikipedia and HG101.
Interesting topic. I find it applies to anything, as THE-EXCEL mentions, not just games. People have this natural tendency to feel superior when they feel they know more about something than you. Almost like they have something to prove to others by berating them in their lack of knowledge. I think it has something to do with personal insecurities and having developed a superiority complex. Its both silly and unnecessary. Avoid them, thats really the only thing you can do.
For instance, I have a friend who played Final Fantasy 7 and 8 for the first time a year ago. He loved them both. I have played the first through X but instead of talking down to him when he raved and ranted about FF7 being awesome and he couldn't believe any of the FF games could get better, I instead smiled at his enthusiasm for the game and offered, "thats cool but if you think 7 was character driven, you should play 6. I think you'd love it as its arguably the best of the series."
I could have easily been a complete jerk off and said, "your an idiot for having that opinion. I know more than you because I played through more FF games than you, so automatically that makes me cooler and your opinion means nothing. You probably couldn't handle 6 anyways since it old, and I have better taste then you."
Which person would you rather be around? Supportive and informative? Or condescending and negative? But then again, the internet also multiples the human tendency to be a douche by a factor of 10. Something to do with that anonymity thing.
I understand what you peps are saying, and i agree with a couple of you...i think it is more of a stereotype instead of a pre req, i mean in the days of sega, everyone was playing the same games, mainly because there were so few good ones, but now every system has so many different games that each{systems and games} come with stereo types.
EX1> you play warcraft= you are a nerd
EX2>you play sports games= you are a jock or ghetto
EX3>you like nintendo=you are a little kid
those are just a couple of broad examples, and kind on the same wavelength as dementor, people have these crazy personas that come with a come, like a guy who is amazing at COD4 and plays it all the time, will more than likely think they are better in some strange sense than a HALO3 player...mainly because most gamers are immature people, or just plain ignorant, and get very very caught up in these video games, but we have to remember that, they are just games...
or not......The Olympics are games too......just some smoked out thoughts for the convo
While I don't think you can generalize EVERYTHING exactly like that (obviously), I think you have a great point and you're, for the most part, right. I think a lot of it has to do with the internet and people searching for an identity as well.
Many people see gaming as their identity and therefor an exclusive club where they know everything about everything and everyone else is excluded. It's done sometimes to make up for a world where they are outcast and rejected, sometimes to make up for personal insecurities and control issues, and sometimes just by accident.
I think it's something that we all need to watch and it's one reason why I generally choose to ignore the console wars play games because they're a fun, childhood pastime.
Forgive me for nitpicking, but the original question seems to actually be two: at the beginning, the question is what's up with prerequisites for "playing" games, while later on it becomes prereqs for "discussing" games. For the former, your assertion that loads o' sequels are the culprit holds water, though I'd argue that relatively few sequels can't be enjoyed unless you've already played the earlier entries.
When it comes to the "forums n' fanboyism" part of the equation, however, you're going to find some of that no matter where you go - even if you're discussing the only game that some obscure developer ever made, somebody somewhere will know the favorite mixed drink of each of the programmers and lord it over you. Discuss a more popular game or series, and the likelihood of meeting someone like that goes up.
Such behavior has always been around, and always will be - as video games have become a more "accepted" part of popular culture, it's simply become more noticeable. I would argue that there was never really a threshold to cross in this regard - at some point it just became noticeable enough for you to catch wind of. Either way, this being what it is, it's easy enough to avoid if you really want to.
@Bulletmagnet: I totally agree. Just to clarify, further discussion of this topic at the forum I mentioned led to all of us wishing for the good old days again. Before every game had a sequel. Back when you picked a cool game to play based on the crappy box art and didn't have the internet helping you to decide if it's a game you wanted to buy or play. Back in the good old days when discussions about games were nothing more than friends helping each other and talking about how cool something was. That said, we've come a long ways as a culture and I'm not sure it's been for the better sometimes.
p.s. www.digikoto.com/forums is the forum I mention. It is a good forum with nice people, so check it out if you'd like. We accept all new members so long as they aren't bots or prove themselves to be jerks. I'm one of the moderators of this place and many of us have been in this tiny community for years, since the beginning. Heck, if you join you'll even get a welcome message on the forums to make you feel at home.
I certainly wouldn't mind returning to the "good old days" of gaming in SOME respects, though I might draw the line at having to make selections based on box art, heh heh. Indeed, not all "advancements" in gaming as a whole have been completely positive, but others have - at least I think so. But you'd need to put up a whole different article on that, heh heh.
And thanks for the invite, but I just joined here and am already spending way too much time trying to keep up. :)
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I spend little time on forums, I have games to play. The cause of and solution to this problem is this: on the internet, it is really really easy to completely shut out people you don't agree with. So, the solution is to shun these groups of unfriendly people, and find friendly people.
I'm still trying to figure out when I started giving a damn about the industry as much as I cared about actually playing games. Must have been some time after 1996 when I started subscribing to Nintendo Power. I started to learn the names of developers and their histories. I don't think I really gave a damn until 2001 or thereabouts, though, when I had regular Internet access.
So, 2001.
I think the N64/PSX game library disparity also spurred me on to find out wtf was going on.
I don't get the question. What prerequisites?
If you are talking about people being douchebags to others who don't know as much as them about a certain subject, welcome to the life.
There will always be people who "know better" than everybody else, you just learn to ignore those kind of peoples bullshit and continue enjoying what you enjoy, the way you enjoy it, just as you would if they were not there.
Who cares what anybody else thinks, especially if they think their way is the right way, that's their opinion and they can spit it anywhere they want to, just like you can. You just have to accept the fact that your opinion is not lore, that others can have their own opinions and that a difference between either does not mean you have to battle for which one is "right"; they are opinions, that is all.
It stems from our nature to hate casual/noob gamers.
It will all equal out eventually. You don't see to much of it with movie buffs or tv show buffs. One day everything will be blah and no one will give a shit as much as they do now.
To clarify, when we are all 80 years old and still able to carry on a conversation about the industry the youngins will stop putting so much stock into knowing so much because literally everyone and their grandparents will know it.
Thats when people will stop giving a shit.
@falinter:
Actually, in my experience, movie/television buffs can be as elitist as hardcore gamers. I find it difficult to discuss older shows and movies with my contemporaries unless they happen to be in the mood for a retro night or whatever the term is for entertainment.
I play a lot of niche games that reward players with prior knowledge of the mechanics of their predecessors, but I don't think it's as relevant as you say it is. I think the only message of the forums that disparage members with little knowledge of these games is "lurk more". It's not too much to ask for, in my opinion, as a little research can bring you a long way when discussing a game. I actually have never played a lot of the games I discuss; I just read a lot about them on Wikipedia and HG101.
Interesting topic. I find it applies to anything, as THE-EXCEL mentions, not just games. People have this natural tendency to feel superior when they feel they know more about something than you. Almost like they have something to prove to others by berating them in their lack of knowledge. I think it has something to do with personal insecurities and having developed a superiority complex. Its both silly and unnecessary. Avoid them, thats really the only thing you can do.
For instance, I have a friend who played Final Fantasy 7 and 8 for the first time a year ago. He loved them both. I have played the first through X but instead of talking down to him when he raved and ranted about FF7 being awesome and he couldn't believe any of the FF games could get better, I instead smiled at his enthusiasm for the game and offered, "thats cool but if you think 7 was character driven, you should play 6. I think you'd love it as its arguably the best of the series."
I could have easily been a complete jerk off and said, "your an idiot for having that opinion. I know more than you because I played through more FF games than you, so automatically that makes me cooler and your opinion means nothing. You probably couldn't handle 6 anyways since it old, and I have better taste then you."
Which person would you rather be around? Supportive and informative? Or condescending and negative? But then again, the internet also multiples the human tendency to be a douche by a factor of 10. Something to do with that anonymity thing.
I understand what you peps are saying, and i agree with a couple of you...i think it is more of a stereotype instead of a pre req, i mean in the days of sega, everyone was playing the same games, mainly because there were so few good ones, but now every system has so many different games that each{systems and games} come with stereo types.
EX1> you play warcraft= you are a nerd
EX2>you play sports games= you are a jock or ghetto
EX3>you like nintendo=you are a little kid
those are just a couple of broad examples, and kind on the same wavelength as dementor, people have these crazy personas that come with a come, like a guy who is amazing at COD4 and plays it all the time, will more than likely think they are better in some strange sense than a HALO3 player...mainly because most gamers are immature people, or just plain ignorant, and get very very caught up in these video games, but we have to remember that, they are just games...
or not......The Olympics are games too......just some smoked out thoughts for the convo
While I don't think you can generalize EVERYTHING exactly like that (obviously), I think you have a great point and you're, for the most part, right. I think a lot of it has to do with the internet and people searching for an identity as well.
Many people see gaming as their identity and therefor an exclusive club where they know everything about everything and everyone else is excluded. It's done sometimes to make up for a world where they are outcast and rejected, sometimes to make up for personal insecurities and control issues, and sometimes just by accident.
I think it's something that we all need to watch and it's one reason why I generally choose to ignore the console wars play games because they're a fun, childhood pastime.
Forgive me for nitpicking, but the original question seems to actually be two: at the beginning, the question is what's up with prerequisites for "playing" games, while later on it becomes prereqs for "discussing" games. For the former, your assertion that loads o' sequels are the culprit holds water, though I'd argue that relatively few sequels can't be enjoyed unless you've already played the earlier entries.
When it comes to the "forums n' fanboyism" part of the equation, however, you're going to find some of that no matter where you go - even if you're discussing the only game that some obscure developer ever made, somebody somewhere will know the favorite mixed drink of each of the programmers and lord it over you. Discuss a more popular game or series, and the likelihood of meeting someone like that goes up.
Such behavior has always been around, and always will be - as video games have become a more "accepted" part of popular culture, it's simply become more noticeable. I would argue that there was never really a threshold to cross in this regard - at some point it just became noticeable enough for you to catch wind of. Either way, this being what it is, it's easy enough to avoid if you really want to.
@Bulletmagnet: I totally agree. Just to clarify, further discussion of this topic at the forum I mentioned led to all of us wishing for the good old days again. Before every game had a sequel. Back when you picked a cool game to play based on the crappy box art and didn't have the internet helping you to decide if it's a game you wanted to buy or play. Back in the good old days when discussions about games were nothing more than friends helping each other and talking about how cool something was. That said, we've come a long ways as a culture and I'm not sure it's been for the better sometimes.
p.s. www.digikoto.com/forums is the forum I mention. It is a good forum with nice people, so check it out if you'd like. We accept all new members so long as they aren't bots or prove themselves to be jerks. I'm one of the moderators of this place and many of us have been in this tiny community for years, since the beginning. Heck, if you join you'll even get a welcome message on the forums to make you feel at home.
I certainly wouldn't mind returning to the "good old days" of gaming in SOME respects, though I might draw the line at having to make selections based on box art, heh heh. Indeed, not all "advancements" in gaming as a whole have been completely positive, but others have - at least I think so. But you'd need to put up a whole different article on that, heh heh.
And thanks for the invite, but I just joined here and am already spending way too much time trying to keep up. :)