Comment with Facebook

Comment with Dtoid

Comment with Facebook

Comment with Dtoid

games anime | toys
This is a Destructoid readers's blog. For staff blogs click here. Confused? read this Create you own Dtoid blog, it's free! | Returning members: Login now

[ thebza's blog ]

DTOID review scores, can they be fixed?
thebza \| 12:45 PM on 10.26.2008	79 comments

okay, i'm not going to lie.. i've been having issues with dtoid's latest reviews on big games :

Fable II - got a 7.5 here, metacritic (meaning the rest of the world) has it at 89, a difference of 14%. Also officially giving it the lowest score out of every website on the internet on metacritic :(

Silent Hill Homecoming - got a 9 here (what), metacritic 72%, a difference of 18%.

Armored Core For Answer - got a 3 here, metacritic 65%, a difference of 35%.

Too Human - got a 2 here, metacritic has it a 65%, a difference of 45% (WHAT).

i think you see where this is going.

these discrepancies are ridiculous.. in my opinion dtoid reviews are VERY well written, some of the best out there, but the scores suck flat out. i almost *never* agree with the number scores.

and please, all of you "scores shouldn't matter" people.. don't post a reply here saying that shit, it's old... and if scores shouldn't matter, dtoid shouldn't score. period.

BUT i have an idea that might help fix this issue, check this idea (came to me in a dream) :

what if dtoid continues to review games, sans the number score (since most the reviewers say they hate the number score anyways)... then below that in the comment section there could be a voting 1-10 thing where the DTOID COMMUNITY can rate the game and leave a "i agree with the review here because xxx.. i disagree with it because... gave it an #".

SO we the DTOID COMMUNITY, actually hand out the number score! i think this idea is great, think about it... would braid be a 10 if it were up to us and not just the 5-6 reviewers? or silent hill a 9? highly doubt it. and instead of leaving it up to 5 people to decide a score for all, it'll be all of US that decide the score.

i think this idea is great, especially since DTOID always pushes itself as "the largest independent game community on the internet"... if it's really an independent game community, then give us some of the power to score games ourselves and take the pressure off DTOID reviewers who hate number scores and just let them do what they're good at, writing the actual review piece.

Let me know what you think!

related blogs:
	Destructoid review: Audiball 1 comments	Review: The Blackwell Legacy 4 comments	5 Fictional Video Game Locations I would love to visit 11 comments	Cblog Recaps: "10 Things You Don't Know About Me" Edition 18 comments

Is this post awesome? Vote it up!

Click connect and comment instantly!

New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

78 comments | showing # 1 to 50

prev	next 50 comments

Half left says:
(# 0) on 10/26/2008 13:04

Nice idea, but I don't think it would work. Allowing the community to vote would cause the fanboys to pull the averages up and down.

Seth338 says:
(# 1) on 10/26/2008 13:08

If you dont like destructoid's reviews go elsewhere, they openly rate games by different criteria than other websites and tell people repeatedly to ignore the score and read the review itself in order to decide for themselves.

If a game is flawed it will not get an 8, and many review sites refuse to give lower than a 7 as a policy in order not to scare advertisers.

Destructoid uses the entire 10 point scale so a lot of their scores are lower than other websites who use the 7-10 scale.

Read the review, not the number.

Wexx says:
(# 2) on 10/26/2008 13:10

The Metacritic score is an average of a lot of different places, so why should the dtoid score be compared to that? the reviewers are different people, and if you don't like how they saw the game (which in my opinion, is usually really accurate), then go to another site for your reviews.

The voting thing [i]could[/a] work, but... majority rule isn't really my bag, as a group could get together and vote one way on a game to bring the average down.

Seth338 says:
(# 3) on 10/26/2008 13:10

Oh and as for comparing it to the metacritic average a difference of 20% or so isn't strange.

An average is all the scores put together and divided by themselves, not the most common score. Most people will be above or below that average, about 50% for each actualy.

The concept seemed to confuse you so i thought i would explain it, also - santa, not real.

king3vbo says:
(# 4) on 10/26/2008 13:12

So basically you're against Dtoid's number scores not being the same as everyone else? The best part about Dtoid is that they don't go with the status quo.

ScottyG says:
(# 5) on 10/26/2008 13:12

Iirc the only reason dtoid reviews have number scores attached to them is so they will get listed on Metacritic. They used to have just a "buy/rent/forget it" range of scoring, which I thought worked quite well. But like those stupid Digg links some people feel the need to put into their articles, the number scores seem here to stay.

Community-voted scoring doesn't sounds like too bad of an idea, but I don't think just having those scores would allow them to be listed on Metacritic. And since that's the root of the issue...

Seth338 says:
(# 6) on 10/26/2008 13:14

And last comment i swear, if you want user voted reviews. Go to IGN :D

frozenbabylon says:
(# 7) on 10/26/2008 13:17

@Seth338:

Or Gamespot.

RonBurgandy2010 says:
(# 8) on 10/26/2008 13:28

Destrutoid: Because We're Different

awkwardmongoose says:
(# 9) on 10/26/2008 13:47

It also depends on who is reviewing it. People are way too sensitive about game scores. 7.5 is a GOOD score, 9 MAY be high for the new Silent Hill, but the whole point of a review is to read the content, and see if it's for you. Get over it. DToid is probably the most honest game site you'll ever find.

vexed alex says:
(# 10) on 10/26/2008 13:49

Being different for the sake of being different sucks, but that's not really the case for this website.

Read the review, and I will comment on the fact that scores shouldn't matter. Scores are posted on Destructoid so that they get counted on Metacritic. It allows Destructoid to get some exposure.

The only people who trully care about scores are those that are trying to reinforce their opinions in pointless fanboy forum posts.

Requeim says:
(# 11) on 10/26/2008 13:50

Look at what has happened to the user score on metacritic for little big planet for an example

would take no time for 10 too human fans to register 10 different usernames and vote a perfect 10 with every single one

do not want

tbh destructoid are the only reviews on the internet that i trust, even if i don't agree with all their scores

Coonskin05 says:
(# 12) on 10/26/2008 13:51

Yeah dude, you should be asking yourself "Everyone else's review scores, can they be fixed?"

Also, as a member of the community, I can safely say a community review score would be a fucking terrible idea. First off it wouldn't let us be in metacritic anymore, and secondly, DToid staff gets to review the games because it's their website, when you have your own huge successful videogame blog you can give whatever the fuck review scores you want.

thebza says:
(# 13) on 10/26/2008 14:07

wow so basically a bunch of "don't you dare say my beloved dtoid is flawed, our reviewers are perfect" comments, "if you don't like the reviews don't read them and go to another website" comments (which if you read my post i said that i really like dtoid's reviews and think they're the best out there)...

@KING3VBO - so best thing about dtoid is that they don't go with the status quo? so basically that's like disagreeing with someone just because if you agree you're going to be mainstream. that's exactly like being different for the sake of being different, and that's just fucking gay.

@COONSKIN05 - "Everyone else's review scores, can they be fixed?" That's like a crazy person who thinks that they're the only sane one and it's the entire world that's nuts, not them. Crazy talk, just crazy.

@SETH338 - you're not funny or clever, quit trying so hard.

@the people who actually addressed the community scores topic - i see the point about fanboys pushing a score up or down, but i thought we had a little more faith in our beloved dtoid community? why not make it so new people who've just signed up can't vote, only people who participate, post comments and blogs, etc. can vote?

MrSadistic says:
(# 14) on 10/26/2008 14:16

I never trust reviews, anywhere. Period.

braulio09 says:
(# 15) on 10/26/2008 14:17

so you can't read the italicized sentence after the number?

also, they score because they want the traffic from metacritic. also, community scores has got to be the least thought-out idea ever.

sorry, man, but this shit has been explained over and over again and the review manifesto is linked to in every review (or at least it's supposed to)

Holyetheline says:
(# 16) on 10/26/2008 14:20

You dream about Dtoid... nice.

thebza says:
(# 17) on 10/26/2008 14:26

@BRAULIO09 - thanks for re-re-reiterating what other people have just commented on before you. also thanks for not reading the comments and/or the post.

AngelsDontBurn says:
(# 18) on 10/26/2008 14:36

LOL

LambChops says:
(# 19) on 10/26/2008 14:42

I hate you.

Geoff says:
(# 20) on 10/26/2008 14:57

It's not like Destructoid has a big pull with the rest of the reviews, who gives a damn? GTA4 got an 80 out of 100 while it was at like a 98, and it didn't even pull it down one number, so obviously Destructoid is taken lightly by the MetaCritic scale.

Necros says:
(# 21) on 10/26/2008 14:59

My god, first you come into IRC and troll the review scores, and now you're clogging up the cblogs about it. Want to know why Dtoid's scores sometimes (but not always!) don't line up with Metacritic? Because they obviously have a different fucking opinion! Wow, what a novel concept! Some place thinks a game is good, while another thinks it's just average! It doesn't mean they're wrong, they just disagree, and there's nothing wrong with that! If I went along with Metacritic, I'd think that Prey and Chromehounds were good games for the 360 when, in my opinion, they are both horribly mediocre at what they do.

And as for a community review score? No offense to the Dtoid community, who I love and would easily sex up for $5 in the backroom of a bar, but if I want to see their opinions, I'll read them in the comments and cblogs. There are plenty of ways to get your opinion out, but Dtoid doesn't have to copy IGN with their fanboy-infused community scores. We know where every editor is coming from when he/she reviews a game - not so with an unknown community member.

If you've got such a fucking issue with a difference of opinion in something as insignificant as the review score, then seriously, go back to IGN.

thebza says:
(# 22) on 10/26/2008 15:03

@necros - WAAH

BS3 Owner says:
(# 23) on 10/26/2008 15:04

@ THEBZA

Let me point you in the right direction...

What King3vbo & KingNecros said is rule.

Coonskin05 says:
(# 24) on 10/26/2008 15:06

To scientifically answer your question thebza, I present you with this.

As you can see, according to metacritic, a game has to be average (50 is, believe it or not, the average of 0-100), or 24 points above average, to be considered average. Any other kind of media, average actually means average, 40%-60%. So why do games have a skewed histogram (supposing the histogram was there)? Because for some reason, most game reviewing companies, whether they are publications or blogs or whatever, have decided not to use the full 1-10 scale. Is that Destructoid's fault? No. Does that mean Destructoid should follow the status quo just so they're not different? No. Destructoid is trying to follow how the other forms of media are graded, which is how it should be, and grade on a 1-10 scale.

/science

Mxyzptlk says:
(# 25) on 10/26/2008 15:06

I think the idea of the community setting the review score doesn't make much sense. Why would the review score be determined by people who didn't write the review? Reviews are ultimately opinions. A game I give a 9 you might think is a 5, and vice versa. If you read the text of the review and match it up with the review guide, the numbers make sense. It's about individual reviewers giving their critiques of games, not about staying in line with the general consensus.

The whole point of the numbers is to get featured on sites like Metacritic. Pretty much none of the reviewers like the idea, but it's a necessary evil. More traffic equals more ad revenue equals more money to continue improving the site and offering awesome prizes to give back to the community.

If members of the community disagree with a particular review, they already have an outlet: The Cblogs.

Coonskin05 says:
(# 26) on 10/26/2008 15:09

My image got cut off, to see the full thing, right click on it, click copy image location, and ctrl+v that in your browser.

vexed alex says:
(# 27) on 10/26/2008 15:15

I fucking hate people who argue scores. It's the most pointless, elitist bullshit you can do.

"No! Your opinion is wrong! Your score is the lowest! You must be biased!"

Do us all a favor and leave, kid.

Tubatic says:
(# 28) on 10/26/2008 15:16

FUCK CUNTING SHIT.

Seriously. Shut up.

You're bawling because a website's reviews don't meet a fucking average of review scores.

A FUCKING AVERAGE IS MADE OF TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ALL SCORES.

So what if destructoid ends up setting a low score. Maybe the damn game deserved it, and no one else has the balls to say it. Maybe it has resonable flaws that no one else is bothering to acknowledge.

You realize that what you're kind of hoping for is to have some way to register a score that is closer to a FUCKING AVERAGE OF SCORES.

Serious, what's the fucking POINT!

I'm generally whatever about score bitching for FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

STFUAJPG. For your enjoyment's sake.

arg.

Alexradl says:
(# 29) on 10/26/2008 15:30

This makes absolutely no sense. Opinions are opinions.

aborto thefetus says:
(# 30) on 10/26/2008 15:44

Jesus christ not this argument again. Exactly how many game websites/ magazines have you read? A lot of the time reviewers from different sites and magazines give similar reviews but there is always a select few that write a review that is completely different review then the others. Have you ever read EGM? Two of the reviewers gave a B (8/10) to Alone in the dark, a game other magazines gave a 6/10 or lower. Have you ever read Play? I remember them giving the Sonic the Hedgehog game on the 360 a 9/10. Have you ever read Edge? I've seen a ton of their reviews that are different then the typical review for a particular game. Destructoid isn't the only one who does this, every site/magazine does this from time to time.

What you are saying is basically everybody should have the same opinion on something, which is the most brain dead retarded thing I have ever heard.

RAB says:
(# 31) on 10/26/2008 15:46

Mxyzptlk wins.

thebza says:
(# 32) on 10/26/2008 15:55

oh well whatever, i can't believe how personally some of you take this issue, it's like i just raped your mom in front of you or something :P it's cool guys, no problem, you sheeple go ahead and take the DTOID reviews as the end all be all, i'll continue to call them as i see them (and a lot have been really shitty lately, that was my point all along).

thebza says:
(# 33) on 10/26/2008 15:56

@MXYZPTLK - well said, and point taken.. i have to agree with you there. :)

frozenbabylon says:
(# 34) on 10/26/2008 15:58

Wait wait wait. So you can sit here and cry and bitch about the review scores, But when Necros calls you out on being a whiny cunt and expressing his opinion of this whole... ordeal, You give him a `waah`?

You're an idiot who obviously believes in double standards.

Waah indeed.

aborto thefetus says:
(# 35) on 10/26/2008 16:08

BZA, did you seriously not expect this to happen? Did you seriously write this blog and expect people not to get pissed off? You question a websites credibility on their site and not expect people to get pissed off? Go over to IGN, Gamespot, etc. and then say in their forums that their reviews are wrong and you will get the same thing.

Necros says:
(# 36) on 10/26/2008 16:16

@ Frozenbabylon

It's just further proof that he has no respect for a differing opinions.

Anus Mcphanus says:
(# 37) on 10/26/2008 16:39

A review is supposed to be a buying guide so that you can decide for yourself if the game in question sounds like something you would like to buy/play.
That means that different reviews will pick up and have issues with different things in the game depending on their readership. Dtoid might point out something that they believe their readers will love or hate which will in turn raise or lower their score but other review sites might not care about that feature because their readers don't care.

If anything it's good that Dtoid or any other site sometimes goes against the grade like this because people will read the reviews to see why they gave the game a higher/lower score and hence they may get a greater sense of what the game is actually like. After all if you're researching something like a product you are thinking about buying then you should look at more than one source.

Also, the community ratings system for reviews may sound good in theory we all know that in reality that fanboys will ruin it by voting unfairly just to raise or lower the average score in favor of their console/game.

Aertyr says:
(# 38) on 10/26/2008 17:29

thebza, you may think your some kind of quasi philosopher for writing this and making everyone get into a tizzy but the whole point of a review is to do just that, not to give it an arbitrary number. Your whole argument of why it needs to be fixed is because of the difference between popular mainline reviews and ours. The fact you called out King3vbo for "disagreeing only because you want to disagree" is the exact same thing as you wanting us to "agree because everyone else agrees". Same shit. So please if you want to call something broken because everyone and their mother doesn't love it then go whine somewhere else.

BlindsideDork says:
(# 39) on 10/26/2008 17:36

Don't read it for the scores...and sorry Dtoid has a mind of their own and don't give the same rating as everyone else.

Also, Too Human did suck.

RAB says:
(# 40) on 10/26/2008 17:41

Everyone needs to chill out with the personal insults. Can't there just be a civilized debate?

Honestly.

idiots

<3

Tubatic says:
(# 41) on 10/26/2008 17:45

::Comes back after dinner::

That said, a separate community rating entry into metacritic would be cool.

Though from the sounds of it, bza would have a problem with everyone aggregating a lower rating . . . Damn sheep, amirite? :/

Jonathan Holmes says:
(# 42) on 10/26/2008 18:00

I hear what you are saying, Bza. Trust me, its weird being an editor here and giving a game a number score that you know is likely to be misinterpreted by people who don't use the full ten point rating scale.

That doesn't mean it's wrong.

For whatever reason, just about every other site I know treats videogame review scores like a grade on a test, where everything below a 60 (or a 6.0) is failing. That's just not how we operate here. A 5 or a 6 on a Dtoid is more like a C grade, and a 7.5 (like Fable 2 got) is much more like a B+.

The fact that other reviewers don't see it that way is a shame, but that doesn't mean that they are doing it right and we're doing it wrong.

If everything 6.0 and under is all considered an F, what's the point of having a ten point scale?

Qraze says:
(# 43) on 10/26/2008 18:01

so if d-toid mirrored every other site it would be good? what's the point of a d-toid review if it'll be the same as ign? and if we the community voted on a review then people would vote without even playing the game, just to be fanboy or not. i like a different opinion and ign gets paid for good reviews. should we sell out for money or not? even metacritic's scores are usually always flawed and will give a game a good score only to change it a week later after real fucking people play it. and most don't point out flaws until after real people play it. quit your bitching or better, just go elsewhere.

falinter says:
(# 44) on 10/26/2008 18:02

I find this hilarious.

Also, infuriating.

RAB says:
(# 45) on 10/26/2008 18:18

WAIT

SANTA ISN'T REAL?

OH SHIIIIIIIIIII

Mushman says:
(# 46) on 10/26/2008 18:21

This has not gone well.

Niero says:
(# 47) on 10/26/2008 18:25

I think everyone's intentions here are in the right place. What I'd like to add is that we have a formal internal review process and before any score goes out the door our reviews editor gives it his stamp of approval and in some cases the editor in chief if the reviewers absolutely hated the game. We read metacritic (don't even get me started on scores posted there by sites that specialize in one console). We're not trying to be the odd guys out with lower than average scores -- those numbers represent what we feel are fair and true. We also tend to isolate review scores to their genre: a survival horror game's score vs. what we gave a puzzle game or a JRPG are going to vary.

That said, we do have a reviews tag in the cblogs and encourage community members to post their own, especially if they don't agree with our editorial team. It makes for good conversation.

IGN/Gamespot are database sites so its a little more centralized to get everyone's opinion about a game. We may add some features like that in the future, but at the moment we're just focusing on being the best blog we can be. We're always evolving the site in new ways: if this is something you guys would like us to prioritize please let me know.

MEE says:
(# 48) on 10/26/2008 18:36

HOW CAN YOU BE SO GOD DAMN STUPID!?!

''i see the point about fanboys pushing a score up or down, but i thought we had a little more faith in our beloved dtoid community?''

THEN WHY IN THE FUCKSHITASTICULE ARE YOU QUESTIONING IT?

you sound exactly like thebez!

/rant

i found you absolutly stupid, illogical, disrespectfull of the member (by that i mean Necros), and absolutly hilarious.

also horse cock pump.

Tubatic says:
(# 49) on 10/26/2008 18:43

@Necros

heh "member"

prev	next 50 comments

Click connect and comment instantly!

get involved

register or login
post a blog
post a forum
enter a contest
contribute a news tip
suggest a feature
be a guest editor

support

new member's guide
login assistance
tech support
report abuse
email our editors
read our dev blog
nuclear crisis?

keep in touch

RSS feed
Twitter
Facebook
Myspace
Flickr
Game nights
Meetup+play online

seriously

about Destructoid
advertising
terms of use
privacy policy
jobs at MM
buy our crap

our network

Tomopop
Japanator
Despingation?

Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
living the dream since March 16, 2006

New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!