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About Me
There was a HOLE here.
It's gone now.

犬も歩けば棒に当たる







Random gaming facts about Shinryu108:

Learned to play Street Fighter II on a PC keyboard.

Can recite the walkthrough to classic LucasArts adventures such as The Secret of Monkey Island and Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis by heart.

Lost a PS2 due to laser issues. As a result, he is obsessively wary of optical media, which is a mild problem in this day and age. Passing of beloved console also made him pathologically mistrustful of allegedly poor hardware.

Spent way too many hours in Vagrant Story, partly due to mourning aforementioned PS2. During those hours, he forged ten perfect damascus weapons (one for each category), a full set of ultimate damascus Dread Armour, and an ultimate damascus Dread Shield. Experience taught him to never whine about drop rates in other games.

Most wanted games as a kid (and therefore, all-time) were Monkey Island 2 and Super Street Fighter II Turbo. Eventually obtained both, still plays them to this day.

Never owned a SNES, or any other 16-bit console for that matter.

Enjoys cold beer with his games.

Is eagerly waiting for a Legacy of Kain sequel.

Occasionally misses the days when a game could be played with two buttons, no tutorials, no manual and most of all, no loading times.

Used to think MMORPGs would be the Holy Grail of games, until he played one.

Managed to land that damn plane in Top Gun. Once.

Thinks Ocarina of Time and Metroid Prime are great games that get way too much praise.

Dislikes racing games, possibly because he sucks at them.

Used to beat Bionic Commando weekly as a kid.

Is a compulsive completist.

Will take good writing over good graphics any time.

Favourite games, in no particular order:
• Metal Gear Solid
• FFV-VI-VII-X-XII
• Street Fighter anything
• Resident Evil 2-4
• Legacy of Kain series
• Anything by LucasArts from last century
• Vagrant Story
• Persona 3
• Portal
• Zelda series
• Devil May Cry 3
• God of War I-II
• Silent Hill 1-2
• ISS/PES series
• Shadow of the Colossus
• Super Metroid
• Bionic Commando
• GTA series
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Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/shi
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MMO, I renounce you
shinryu | 9:34 AM on 02.04.2009 14 comments


I've always been an RPG person. I haven't even played that many, compared to the hardcore enthusiast, but I've always been easy prey for what I like to call the "RPG factor" or "incremental gameplay". Get a sword, kill monsters, get money, gain a few levels, get a better sword, reach a tougher dungeon, kill tougher monsters…you know the drill. Describing it to a non-enthusiast, let alone to a non-gamer, makes it sound exceptionally tedious and nerdy. But those of us who know...just do. People like shiny things; some people don't mind if said shiny thing is bitmap or polygonal.


MOAR!!!1

Like I said, I have to admit to not having played tons of RPGs despite appreciating the genre. Nevertheless, I've had my Diablo, Warcraft and Baldur's Gate sleepless streaks. I've played text-based D&D, as well as old-school PC gems like Excelsior and Castle of the Winds (GITF - you'll thank me later). I wasted way more time on the Ehrgeiz RPG than on the actual fighting game (and I am also a beat 'em-up freak). Besides that, I have an unhealthy tendency towards brand loyalty - I finished Devil May Cry 2, for crying out loud.

The RPG factor kept me coming back for more. It's no wonder that more and more games (Resident Evil and Arkham Asylum just to mention a couple) are attempting to incorporate RPG elements. The RPG factor appeals to the innermost depths of the human mind, reducing every aspect of the world to deterministic figures; the player is at once denizen and god of the fictional world.

Is this why RPGs are so successful? Some argue that most of these games - especially those from Japan - simply use the RPG factor to sweeten an otherwise dull experience. Others claim that JRPGs are really subpar products that rely on collateral appeal - plot, characters, fanservice, whatever - to sell. In any case, the RPG factor has made the fortune of many a game publisher.

The next logical step is the MMO. Multiply the quests, monsters and equipment by over 9000, add in the online aspect: what could go wrong?

I drooled over the possibilities for a while. Then I tried out World of Warcraft and was genuinely unimpressed. I jumped over to Final Fantasy XI (brand loyalty, there it is) and felt it was exactly the same game with a different façade. Although I knew consciously that if didn't have those two magic words in the title (damn you, Squeenix) I wouldn't even have considered it, I made a serious effort to like the game. And I came up short.


Several cakes could be baked in the time it takes you to reach those people in the background

The game world doesn't feel expanded, but diluted. It seems every effort up to slightly slowing down the character's running animation has been made to ensure you spend as much time as possible on the game. And for a game you pay based on a measure of your playing time, that makes a world of sense. Most of the time, in fact, I was running from A to B. Most of the remaining time I was lazily pounding a twelve-inch hare, waiting for it to collapse under my apparently piddly blows and yield that measly XP reward. And to be precise, most of the time I was engaging an enemy both of us were just standing there waiting for our respective turns to end.

When I realized that most of the quests were apparently about killing n specimens of monster A, or gathering y pieces of item B, the obvious question dawned on me:

Why am I doing this?

It's a somewhat rhetorical question when videogames are the issue, I know. But bear with me. There was no plot, no characters to speak of, no storyline to keep me coming back. The grind was stretched out to unreal proportions; even just doing the research necessary to move things along more quickly takes so much time that I simply can't see people with serious commitments - even little more than a full-time job - actually enjoying this genre. I was stuck in an endless loop, spending hours killing the same monsters just to get a better weapon and move on to the next area - where I could find the same monsters as before with a different name and start over.

As a gamer, I've endured some pretty dull shit. I made an Ultimate Damascus Dread Shield in Vagrant Story, and anyone who knows the game knows what I'm talking about. Some of the chores the developers throw in their games are downright ridiculous. But when I started thinking "Man, I'd rather be playing this or that" I realized this was going too far.


brb guys, my beard is becoming aware of its own existence

People I played with, including high-level peeps who were just out there to help the noobs out, kept saying the same thing: it's dull at the beginning, but it gets better. But should I really put up with this? Should I waste my time by the shitload grinding it out just hoping for the game to "get better"? Shouldn't the journey be as entertaining as the ultimate goal? And after all, what am I playing for? Bragging rights for my Lv.75 Monk? So that one day I'll be able to tell my kids that I completed every single Final Fantasy game?

The truth is, I'm not bashing the game or the genre. Well, OK, I have issues with the idea of a game being explicitly based on wasting my time, which is the most valuable commodity I have. In fact, I wish I had the time to play it through. You know, if I could have unlimited IRL lives, I would definitely devote one or two to a couple MMORPG's. The appeal of the RPG factor in them is tenuous, at least to me, and it's unnerving when you remember how much you could get done in one sitting of, say, Diablo.

When we started out, gaming wasn't about achievements. It was about fun. Hell, you didn't even expect to finish a NES game when you bought it. You gladly replayed the same 2-3 opening levels each time you stuck the cartridge in, occasionally shitting bricks whenever you managed to get a little further. Because the simplicity of the gameplay was enough to keep you entertained. Diablo or the Ehrgeiz minigame didn't even need a plot to be fun - load the game and hack away, pure unadulterated RPG goodness.


South Park nailed it

I don't wanna piss off fans of the genre, in fact I'd appreciate it if you shared your views on this. But when you really look at it from an outsider's perspective - imagine the NORP reading that story about those guys spending 18 hours battling some boss - it really looks stupid. For crying out loud, FFXI doesn't even feel like FF - it's closer to WoW remix. And yet, people love this stuff, just ask Blizzard. The bottom line is that the software houses are out to get our cash, as they should, and I can't blame them for it. But until they keep dishing out the same old recycled crap instead of actually attempting to focus on actually original game design, I know I ain't gonna chip in.

So you see, Junior, that's why XI is the only Final Fantasy I never completed.



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13 comments | showing # 1 to 13
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ShawnKelfonne's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 10:58
ShawnKelfonne
I think the real draw of MMOs for me isn't the constant leveling up, but the fun of doing it with other people. I hate stupid "Kill X of Y" quests with a passion, but damn if I didn't have fun last night teaming up with two guildmates and running through a dungeon together just for the fun of it.

It really helps to have fun and nice people around you to make the leveling a bit less tedious.
Naim Master's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 11:06
Naim Master
You think WoW's bad? Half of my class is addicted to Ragnarok Online , a game where you spend 3 weeks to get one level !
shinryu's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 11:24
shinryu
shawn - absolutely true. but should the online component be an excuse for developers to get lazy?
Cough's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 11:33
Cough
You could say the same for every hobbie. What draws people to MMOs is the people aspect. Joining groups, raiding dungeons, fighting clans.

I really hate MMOs tough. Can't stand people in those things. The leveling for nothing and lack of story are downsides too. And paying monthly? PFFF. That's what you're selling, EVE/WOW/FFXI? I'm done discussing this.
The Big Bad Wolf's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 11:46
The Big Bad Wolf
MMOs have been rubbish for the past ten years (in my opinion). Due to the unecessary attention towards babies who cannot withstand the simple concepts of Risk vs Reward and PKing.
Nixium's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 11:59
Nixium
I have to agree with you. MMORPG's have yet to do anything that is really interesting at the lower levels.

I have played age of conon, wow and warhammer online and none of the beginning levels are all that fun.

DEVELOPERS we need fun from the get go!
ShawnKelfonne's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 12:13
ShawnKelfonne
@The Big Bad Wolf: Are you honestly suggesting that the Everquest system of penalizing the player even further when things go wrong is better than slightly inconveniencing them? People are already paying to play the game, don't punish them further.

@shinryu: The thing is, developers aren't lazy for the most part. Sure, there are shining examples like Age of Conan, where the game falls apart past Lv 20, but in general an MMO world has a wealth of backstory, and the quests tend to fit in within the context of the world. However, most players tend to completely blow by the quest text, so the "storyline" is completely lost to them. This is obviously ignoring the fact that a single player can't really make permanent changes to the world around them since everyone has to see the same world, but there is a reason for killing 10 rats and whatnot.

The fundamental problem is that it's very difficult to strike a balance between involving the player in the world, and the classic MMO. Guild Wars did it by making everything but the hub towns and outposts instanced. In effect, you could meet up with people in cities, but the storyline was about you and your party. It works to a degree, but then since it was only your party most of the time, you lost the first M off of MMO for the most part.

It's really something that developers need to figure out an answer for, and anyone that comes up with the answer would peobably have the best chance of dethroning WoW.
akathatoneguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 12:44
akathatoneguy
Great article, and hopefully it gets promoted to the front page. You echoed my feelings about MMOs, although I don't have a real love of RPGs to even fall back on.
sickNasty's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 13:14
sickNasty
Everything you have said is exactly why I have no desire to play any MMO's.

I don't want the game I play to feel like work or a chore.

That's why they call them games, they are supposed to be fun and interesting.
ArrestedDeveloper's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 13:25
ArrestedDeveloper
Demonic Raisins I rebuke thee.
The Big Bad Wolf's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/04/2009 15:01
The Big Bad Wolf
@ShawnKelfonne

I've never played EQ sir.

What's wrong with Risk vs Reward and player looting? Again, I had more fun playing games like that over games like WoW that coat me in sugar and reasure me that everything's going to be alright. Long as I repair my gear I have nothing to lose... Ridiculous.

I want to roam outside cities to murder players and take their shoes. In a skillful way, not a mana-dumping "give me 1 honor point" way. That is even more ridiculous.
shinryu's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/05/2009 03:02
shinryu
@shawnkelfonne: it's not just about the story. In fact, many MMOs go to great lengths to define their fictional universes. Sure, it would help if there was a narrative style to speak of instead of blocks of text and mannequin characters, and you make a very good point in this regard.

But see, an interesting plot is what keeps me coming back to offline FF despite the occasionally dull gameplay. But a truly tight RPG doesn't even need a good backstory. I'd be happy with a timesink MMO if it cut down the bs, if it took me no more than ten seconds to get from A to B, or if it introduced an original new take on leveling (off the top of my head, would a no-experience, item-based, Zelda-style MMO work out?).

Darkfall looks interesting, although I feel it's gonna turn out to be much less groundbreaking than most are hoping.
Kyvon_08's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/05/2009 08:44
Kyvon_08
I definately understand what you mean. I was dragged into FFXI for the name as well. Being my first MMORPG, i didn't know what i was getting into and i was instantly hooked. I was so drawn into the fact that i was playing with others who share the same passion for the series as i did, and totally looked past the dull gameplay.

It wasn't until last year where i realized that all i was doing was waiting for a certain monster to spawn in a 12 hour timeframe and hope for a rare item that has a 10% drop rate.

WTF is the point? To prove to myself that i spent half my day sitting in front of my computer WAITING?

I realized that it wasn't worth it and canceled my account.

Now i just stick to single player RPGs, Persona being my new addiction :)
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