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I think the fact that Double Fine has actually made games to completion before is enough incentive for some people. It's not as if they can't do it.
Also, are you saying Tim Schafer/Double Fine shouldn't be allowed to use Kickstarter?
Also, are you saying Tim Schafer/Double Fine shouldn't be allowed to use Kickstarter?
Your bolded "points" do a fantastic job of discrediting everything else you wrote. Maybe if you, say, made those points without sounding like an elitist douche, people would take you more seriously.
Plus, you're seriously asking for a proof of concept from a studio with a number of critically acclaimed games?
But I think you're missing the point of why this is a good thing, Sheppy. You think Double Fine is pushing other people out of the way, but chances are their success is going to get this place more attention and end up benefiting other groups on Kickstarter.
Additionally, the big win here is that this was all done without a big publisher footing the bill. Imagine a future where developers didn't exactly need a publisher to make their games. The video game industry is really the last industry where you need to go through a big publisher to get your game to happen.
In the last few years, that's started to change.
Plus, you're seriously asking for a proof of concept from a studio with a number of critically acclaimed games?
But I think you're missing the point of why this is a good thing, Sheppy. You think Double Fine is pushing other people out of the way, but chances are their success is going to get this place more attention and end up benefiting other groups on Kickstarter.
Additionally, the big win here is that this was all done without a big publisher footing the bill. Imagine a future where developers didn't exactly need a publisher to make their games. The video game industry is really the last industry where you need to go through a big publisher to get your game to happen.
In the last few years, that's started to change.
@The Silent Protagonist
Nah, their success here is going to draw other middling studios into Kickstarter. Which is great for Kickstarter as a business, getting their cut of $1.5 is awesome. But of course as the bigger people come in, they'll crowd out the little guys and the intention of the service.
@Smurfee McGee
There is this real impression that Double Fine is a small studio. 50 employees under one roof and we call that small. Is Tim Schaffer not allowed to use Kickstarter? I would argue, sure, he could. As someone who claims to support smaller developers, it is 100% a dick move in every sense of the word. But read the part where I mention "not ready for Kickstarter." What Tim Schaffer has presented, as a business plan for people to invest in, is a handful of dreams and a complete misdirection. A large portion of the commenters think they are funding Psychonauts 2. And who's fault is that? Almost every other kickstarter project has SOMETHING. This? This has nothing but a point and click game with a 6-8 week development budget.
Should Tim Schaffer/Double Fine not be on Kickstarter? That's a subject for debate but considering every other project on the website that I see actually IS a fucking project, that's a significant downgrade. This is a guy who, as I said, totally activisioned a bunch of other indie developers. They brought his name, a fanbase, crowded everyone else out of the headlines, and has DICK that he's selling you. What is the game, what is the distribution plan, what are the deadlines being imposed, where does the money go to aside from a nebelous "us" and why does he need the money other than not wanting to deal with other people?
Nah, their success here is going to draw other middling studios into Kickstarter. Which is great for Kickstarter as a business, getting their cut of $1.5 is awesome. But of course as the bigger people come in, they'll crowd out the little guys and the intention of the service.
@Smurfee McGee
There is this real impression that Double Fine is a small studio. 50 employees under one roof and we call that small. Is Tim Schaffer not allowed to use Kickstarter? I would argue, sure, he could. As someone who claims to support smaller developers, it is 100% a dick move in every sense of the word. But read the part where I mention "not ready for Kickstarter." What Tim Schaffer has presented, as a business plan for people to invest in, is a handful of dreams and a complete misdirection. A large portion of the commenters think they are funding Psychonauts 2. And who's fault is that? Almost every other kickstarter project has SOMETHING. This? This has nothing but a point and click game with a 6-8 week development budget.
Should Tim Schaffer/Double Fine not be on Kickstarter? That's a subject for debate but considering every other project on the website that I see actually IS a fucking project, that's a significant downgrade. This is a guy who, as I said, totally activisioned a bunch of other indie developers. They brought his name, a fanbase, crowded everyone else out of the headlines, and has DICK that he's selling you. What is the game, what is the distribution plan, what are the deadlines being imposed, where does the money go to aside from a nebelous "us" and why does he need the money other than not wanting to deal with other people?
I sincerely hope that the result of this escapade is to promote Kickstarter as a place for underdog devs (as opposed to well-established, experienced and connected devs). Wouldn't be surprised if what you say does come true, sadly.
if anyone is getting pushed out of the way it is the publishers who never gave their money to adventure games and instead put money into low risk games that only copied farmville, angry birds, or call of duty.
@crackedbat
This project, no. I'm currently funding 5 other projects though.
@Stephen Beirne
That's one of my issues. Double Fine is a well-established, experienced, and connected developer.
@Fame Designer
So these publishers that never give money to adventure games... you mean Nintendo, THQ, NIS, Atlus, Capcom, Sony, and Tell-Tale? Those are the publishers you claim never throw any money at the genre, right? And you DO realize Angry Birds was just a 2D ripoff of Boom Blox and Farmville was LITERALLY a stolen game. Adventure games have acually been in their strongest position ever, especially as the genre died down over here, it's come back in full force due to the cheap development price. Meanwhile, the genre never died and currently exists as "visual novels" and are finally seeing more and more releases in the US including the recent release of the much appreciated and favored Corpse Party on PSP.
This project, no. I'm currently funding 5 other projects though.
@Stephen Beirne
That's one of my issues. Double Fine is a well-established, experienced, and connected developer.
@Fame Designer
So these publishers that never give money to adventure games... you mean Nintendo, THQ, NIS, Atlus, Capcom, Sony, and Tell-Tale? Those are the publishers you claim never throw any money at the genre, right? And you DO realize Angry Birds was just a 2D ripoff of Boom Blox and Farmville was LITERALLY a stolen game. Adventure games have acually been in their strongest position ever, especially as the genre died down over here, it's come back in full force due to the cheap development price. Meanwhile, the genre never died and currently exists as "visual novels" and are finally seeing more and more releases in the US including the recent release of the much appreciated and favored Corpse Party on PSP.
... what Stephen said, hopefully it attracts attention to Kickstarter, however I too suspect it may have negative repurcussions.
I also agree that apparently people entirely bought into the name and not the project, which seems to be the antithesis of what the program is about. It definitely seems that if Double Fine had to finance themselves this way, they might at least have showed more professionalism in presenting a more well thought out proposal.
I also agree that apparently people entirely bought into the name and not the project, which seems to be the antithesis of what the program is about. It definitely seems that if Double Fine had to finance themselves this way, they might at least have showed more professionalism in presenting a more well thought out proposal.
Okay let's narrow it down then. You named off some examples of companies that may have published an adventure game. And let's just say that you're right. You still should understand that publishers didn't fund Double Fine even though there was clearly 1.5 million dollars worth of interest. And Nintendo didn't fund an adventure game like they funded Mario or Zelda. Also, Chris Avellone has been inspired to talk about Planescape 2 because of this event, how can that be a bad thing? These developers are saving money by cutting out the middle man, and the amount of money that they are getting means that the people have decided they want to see something awesome from them. How can it be wrong that the people donating have decided this? I don't think Double Fine has pushed anyone out of the way. This was just a project that we could all get behind. Honestly, other projects couldn't easily compare. Most of the Kickstarter projects that see a lot of money also have a good reputation already. The people at Double Fine and their reputation made this work. They played by the rules just like everyone else. This does not mean other projects are going unnoticed.
About those games I mentioned. You're speaking to me like I don't know about these games. The fact that any of these games were 'stolen' as you say (what you mean is copied, I think), means nothing concerning my argument - because I was only talking about the decisions of publishers and how they pay attention to success and money. They don't care that these games are stolen. My point was that it is hard to have an industry that innovates with those kinds of publishers steering the wheel. If you are saying that any of these games aren't seen as success stories or money makers, then you're just plain wrong.
Lastly, I don't know how you can say adventure games are in a good position these days. Are you really trying to tell me that they are anywhere near as invested in as the RPG's and the FPS's of today? Surely you can't be serious.
About those games I mentioned. You're speaking to me like I don't know about these games. The fact that any of these games were 'stolen' as you say (what you mean is copied, I think), means nothing concerning my argument - because I was only talking about the decisions of publishers and how they pay attention to success and money. They don't care that these games are stolen. My point was that it is hard to have an industry that innovates with those kinds of publishers steering the wheel. If you are saying that any of these games aren't seen as success stories or money makers, then you're just plain wrong.
Lastly, I don't know how you can say adventure games are in a good position these days. Are you really trying to tell me that they are anywhere near as invested in as the RPG's and the FPS's of today? Surely you can't be serious.
@FameDesigner
Allow me to explain something. When a game company wants to get funding, they write up a design document, get some ideas, and basically make a pitch. This work is often done as the preliminary design teams efforts would otherwise go wasted as a previous game enters the design phase. In other words, the cycle is typically "we have an idea, can we have some money to fund it." Double Fine, in the past, had to say, "We have this idea, can we have some money to do this?" This time, however, no effort was put into the pitch, the design, or even a decent business plan presented as a reward. TYPICALLY on kickstarter, when funding reaches certain overfunds, companies in turn just give more stuff out to the people. As an example, look at Farmageddon kickstarter I linked. It's a prime example of what SHOULD be done. The game, presented, the plan, placed forward, and when reaching the overfunding, more shit is being added to the game in real tangible steps. What Double Fine has done is this...
"We're Double Fine, bitches. Give us money. Hooray Independance."
The game was NOT presented, which is a disservice to us because, if they truly wanted a game funded under other circumstances, they NEED to have even the base concept ready to go. What respect they would have paid investors and publishers, you're not worthy of. They are trading 100% on their name.
As for whether or not they would get funding is a bit presumptions, isn't it? After all, failed Kinect experiments for Once Upon A Monster got bought up, bundled up, and funded by Microsoft, as did Once Upon A Monster right along with Trenched. THQ footed the bill behind Costume Quest and Stacking. Stacking, an adventure game based around nesting dolls got funded, let that sink in. Then, of course, let's not forget the bulk of Double Fine's woes came from Brutal Legend. A game which they went dramatically over budget on and half, well, a shit game. And it was a very shit game, more importantly, it wasn't even the shit game Tim Schaffer was out hyping. You see, he was purposely misleading people as to just what the game was, much to the point of even putting review embargos up and going "Totally Dyack" in response to negative reviews. Why is this part of Double Fine's history forgotten about?
Now as to the funding inequalities, have you heard about Professor Layton? Of course Ace Attorney was such an underground hit, I'm not surprised you never heard of it. And Heavy Rain certainly didn't have a massive budget behind it's production in the slightest. Tell-Tale of course spent NO money resurrecting Same & Max, Back to the Future, or Tales of Monkey Island. Sega invested absolutely no money in the Shenmue franchise at all... this is naturally why that endeavor didn't kill the Dreamcast, because Shenmue was tragically underfunded.
Also, farmville wasn't "copied," it was stolen. As mentioned in the past, Zynga has a whole lot of employees for the sole purpose of replicating and rapidly deployee carbon copies of hit facebook games. Found within their budget is even the the settlement payouts to the companies they stole the design from. Of course when Zynga stole code from then partner SocialApps LCC's MyFarm and used it to release Farmville, stolen actually is an appropriate use of the term.
Also, adventure gaming can get publishers which even Double Fine has shown in the past. Current adventure games are finding funding outside of the main sources. Not to mention a lot of people are creating and profiting off of adventure games released on the iOS platform. The notion that PC gaming, Steam, and even iOS hasn't had a resurgence and much better support for the genre that hasn't seen this kind of love since after 7th Guest is frankly insulting to adventure game fans. Are they getting the budget of Skyrim? No. Are they even remotely approaching the sales of Skyrim? No. Then it's a beyond fucking retarded comparison to make. Are you KIDDING me with this stuff?
Allow me to explain something. When a game company wants to get funding, they write up a design document, get some ideas, and basically make a pitch. This work is often done as the preliminary design teams efforts would otherwise go wasted as a previous game enters the design phase. In other words, the cycle is typically "we have an idea, can we have some money to fund it." Double Fine, in the past, had to say, "We have this idea, can we have some money to do this?" This time, however, no effort was put into the pitch, the design, or even a decent business plan presented as a reward. TYPICALLY on kickstarter, when funding reaches certain overfunds, companies in turn just give more stuff out to the people. As an example, look at Farmageddon kickstarter I linked. It's a prime example of what SHOULD be done. The game, presented, the plan, placed forward, and when reaching the overfunding, more shit is being added to the game in real tangible steps. What Double Fine has done is this...
"We're Double Fine, bitches. Give us money. Hooray Independance."
The game was NOT presented, which is a disservice to us because, if they truly wanted a game funded under other circumstances, they NEED to have even the base concept ready to go. What respect they would have paid investors and publishers, you're not worthy of. They are trading 100% on their name.
As for whether or not they would get funding is a bit presumptions, isn't it? After all, failed Kinect experiments for Once Upon A Monster got bought up, bundled up, and funded by Microsoft, as did Once Upon A Monster right along with Trenched. THQ footed the bill behind Costume Quest and Stacking. Stacking, an adventure game based around nesting dolls got funded, let that sink in. Then, of course, let's not forget the bulk of Double Fine's woes came from Brutal Legend. A game which they went dramatically over budget on and half, well, a shit game. And it was a very shit game, more importantly, it wasn't even the shit game Tim Schaffer was out hyping. You see, he was purposely misleading people as to just what the game was, much to the point of even putting review embargos up and going "Totally Dyack" in response to negative reviews. Why is this part of Double Fine's history forgotten about?
Now as to the funding inequalities, have you heard about Professor Layton? Of course Ace Attorney was such an underground hit, I'm not surprised you never heard of it. And Heavy Rain certainly didn't have a massive budget behind it's production in the slightest. Tell-Tale of course spent NO money resurrecting Same & Max, Back to the Future, or Tales of Monkey Island. Sega invested absolutely no money in the Shenmue franchise at all... this is naturally why that endeavor didn't kill the Dreamcast, because Shenmue was tragically underfunded.
Also, farmville wasn't "copied," it was stolen. As mentioned in the past, Zynga has a whole lot of employees for the sole purpose of replicating and rapidly deployee carbon copies of hit facebook games. Found within their budget is even the the settlement payouts to the companies they stole the design from. Of course when Zynga stole code from then partner SocialApps LCC's MyFarm and used it to release Farmville, stolen actually is an appropriate use of the term.
Also, adventure gaming can get publishers which even Double Fine has shown in the past. Current adventure games are finding funding outside of the main sources. Not to mention a lot of people are creating and profiting off of adventure games released on the iOS platform. The notion that PC gaming, Steam, and even iOS hasn't had a resurgence and much better support for the genre that hasn't seen this kind of love since after 7th Guest is frankly insulting to adventure game fans. Are they getting the budget of Skyrim? No. Are they even remotely approaching the sales of Skyrim? No. Then it's a beyond fucking retarded comparison to make. Are you KIDDING me with this stuff?
I've liked every Double Fine game I've played. I donated because I trust that they'll make a good game. Is it possible that it might suck? Sure. Worst case scenario, I'm out $15 and that's it. End of story.
I think you're looking into this too much. How other people spend their money really shouldn't be any of your concern.
I think you're looking into this too much. How other people spend their money really shouldn't be any of your concern.
@sheppy: I appreciate your concern to a certain extent. But, I disagree with you. I'm much like burningsoup, in that, I think the core issue is: other people should spend their money how they want to, and it shouldn't be any of your concern. The proof is in the pudding. People gave money to Double Fine, and didn't give as much to the people you linked to. This is just my opinion. I think where the money goes, in this case, speaks for itself. No rules have been broken and there isn't some great tragedy here.
Also, you said, "farmville wasn't "copied", it was stolen". Then you said, "sole purpose of replicating" - which is a lot like saying they copied it. I'm just saying.
I tried explaining my point, but you're being kind of a dick about it. So I'm going to agree to disagree.
Also, you said, "farmville wasn't "copied", it was stolen". Then you said, "sole purpose of replicating" - which is a lot like saying they copied it. I'm just saying.
I tried explaining my point, but you're being kind of a dick about it. So I'm going to agree to disagree.
@Fame Designer,
I'm trying, I'm really trying here. But you drop a bomb like "Adventure Games aren't healthy unless they have a budget like Call of Duty" and I'm supposed to let that hang? Especially when Heavy Rain did have a massive budget and Double Fine's Stacking had a better budget than most JRPGs being dropped on the handheld platform nowadays.
In regards to farmville vs MyFarm, here...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-07-19-socialapps-farmville-stole-myfarm-code
Read... right there, "Stole Source Code." Zynga's business model, according to people who actually left the company due to skin crawling, stated these issues and many more.
And yes, I agree that Double Fine didn't really break any rules here, but I do feel what they did was sleazy, dishonest, and in an industry full of shady companies, it's setting a dangerous precedent. Imagine if Nintendo came forward and said, "We're building a game for 3DS. Give us $30 now and in a year, you can have it." People would be righteously upset. That's because Nintendo is a big guy, they can fund themselves. Now take this same scenario, apply it to a 50 person studio (which is considered medium sized by all industry standards), apply it to a 50 person studio that currently has contracts to complete two other unannounced titles with major studios, and they basically did the same thing. "We're making a game, give us $15 and when we're done, you can have it." If they approached a publisher with this pitch, they would get laughed out of the building. This is why EVERYONE else on Kickstarter presents the project as an actual project.
Now onto this...
"Also, Chris Avellone has been inspired to talk about Planescape 2 because of this event, how can that be a bad thing?"
Actually, I'd be completely cool with this. Know why? This sentence alone is more than what Double Fine did. It's a pitch, pure and simple. The double fine investors didn't even get that.
@burningsoup and Fame Designer,
This part distresses me...
"How other people spend their money really shouldn't be any of your concern."
This is one of the laziest rebuttals ever. So if someone doesn't like a business practice, the standards it sets, or how it may potentially negatively impact indie gaming and financial avenues needed for the "little guy," shut the fuck up, keep your head down, because where other people spend their money isn't any of your business. I'll remember this next time someone compains about an online pass or SOPA. I'm not allowed to be outraged or voice my opinion on people who are supporting companies doing stuff that I feel is shady... alright... that's where we're at now.
I'm trying, I'm really trying here. But you drop a bomb like "Adventure Games aren't healthy unless they have a budget like Call of Duty" and I'm supposed to let that hang? Especially when Heavy Rain did have a massive budget and Double Fine's Stacking had a better budget than most JRPGs being dropped on the handheld platform nowadays.
In regards to farmville vs MyFarm, here...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-07-19-socialapps-farmville-stole-myfarm-code
Read... right there, "Stole Source Code." Zynga's business model, according to people who actually left the company due to skin crawling, stated these issues and many more.
And yes, I agree that Double Fine didn't really break any rules here, but I do feel what they did was sleazy, dishonest, and in an industry full of shady companies, it's setting a dangerous precedent. Imagine if Nintendo came forward and said, "We're building a game for 3DS. Give us $30 now and in a year, you can have it." People would be righteously upset. That's because Nintendo is a big guy, they can fund themselves. Now take this same scenario, apply it to a 50 person studio (which is considered medium sized by all industry standards), apply it to a 50 person studio that currently has contracts to complete two other unannounced titles with major studios, and they basically did the same thing. "We're making a game, give us $15 and when we're done, you can have it." If they approached a publisher with this pitch, they would get laughed out of the building. This is why EVERYONE else on Kickstarter presents the project as an actual project.
Now onto this...
"Also, Chris Avellone has been inspired to talk about Planescape 2 because of this event, how can that be a bad thing?"
Actually, I'd be completely cool with this. Know why? This sentence alone is more than what Double Fine did. It's a pitch, pure and simple. The double fine investors didn't even get that.
@burningsoup and Fame Designer,
This part distresses me...
"How other people spend their money really shouldn't be any of your concern."
This is one of the laziest rebuttals ever. So if someone doesn't like a business practice, the standards it sets, or how it may potentially negatively impact indie gaming and financial avenues needed for the "little guy," shut the fuck up, keep your head down, because where other people spend their money isn't any of your business. I'll remember this next time someone compains about an online pass or SOPA. I'm not allowed to be outraged or voice my opinion on people who are supporting companies doing stuff that I feel is shady... alright... that's where we're at now.
@sheppy
First of all, if you're trying to make a valid point, don't insult the people who are making counterarguments to yours. You're presenting your argument as if you are more knowledgeable about everything and thus your case MUST be correct. Also, make comparisons where comparisons make sense. Like comparing Double Fine to online passes and SOPA. The difference is SOPA never passed, thanks to protests by the people and businesses like Wikipedia, and we generally know about online passes before a game's release so we can make an informed decisions not to buy them. In this case, the game is already funded. It's too late for you to make a difference. Also, try to eliminate the wall of text in your responses.
I'm not even going to bother responding to any of your points, because your counterargument to mine really only amounted to "I'm butthurt."
First of all, if you're trying to make a valid point, don't insult the people who are making counterarguments to yours. You're presenting your argument as if you are more knowledgeable about everything and thus your case MUST be correct. Also, make comparisons where comparisons make sense. Like comparing Double Fine to online passes and SOPA. The difference is SOPA never passed, thanks to protests by the people and businesses like Wikipedia, and we generally know about online passes before a game's release so we can make an informed decisions not to buy them. In this case, the game is already funded. It's too late for you to make a difference. Also, try to eliminate the wall of text in your responses.
I'm not even going to bother responding to any of your points, because your counterargument to mine really only amounted to "I'm butthurt."
@sheppy
I think you're making an awfully lot of good points. It's a pity that Double Fine fanboyism seems to be a bit of a thing surrounding the Kickstarter project, many people just don't want to hear it.
I think you're making an awfully lot of good points. It's a pity that Double Fine fanboyism seems to be a bit of a thing surrounding the Kickstarter project, many people just don't want to hear it.
@burningsoup
As requested, I'll avoid wall o'text rebuttals. I will not, however, pull punches. You see, your counterargument wasn't a counterargument. Your response was that, because it's other peoples money, I have no right to protest or offer opinion on the matter. I wonder what your concept of a debate is.
Second, SOPA had passed and needed support to pass further. The protest was about a bill that was essentially "snuck" through the system.
Third, you CAN pull your funding from Kickstarter projects. It is 100% possible. For example, one woman had a board game that looked interesting and people were requesting the rules be posted because, well, everyone else does this. Her response was that she wasn't obligated to post the rules and people were only entitled to see them when the game is in their hands. Thus, a bunch of people pulled support. You ALWAYS have the ability to change your pledge in Kickstarter before the due date and as such, I'm not "too late." And you wonder why I'm acting as if you're uninformed...
^The above was an obvious jab at your previous comment and amuses me personally.
As requested, I'll avoid wall o'text rebuttals. I will not, however, pull punches. You see, your counterargument wasn't a counterargument. Your response was that, because it's other peoples money, I have no right to protest or offer opinion on the matter. I wonder what your concept of a debate is.
Second, SOPA had passed and needed support to pass further. The protest was about a bill that was essentially "snuck" through the system.
Third, you CAN pull your funding from Kickstarter projects. It is 100% possible. For example, one woman had a board game that looked interesting and people were requesting the rules be posted because, well, everyone else does this. Her response was that she wasn't obligated to post the rules and people were only entitled to see them when the game is in their hands. Thus, a bunch of people pulled support. You ALWAYS have the ability to change your pledge in Kickstarter before the due date and as such, I'm not "too late." And you wonder why I'm acting as if you're uninformed...
^The above was an obvious jab at your previous comment and amuses me personally.
Fair points. For Tim's sake, I sure hope the game gets eventually done, it will be good AND commercially successful. Personally I havent donated anything, because anything can happen; they might run out of money, get bought by another company, Tim might leave the company or the game might just suck...its a total mystery crate, especially when all they've said was "We're making a classic adventure game". I actually didnt realize the lack of solid concept, proof or plan until you pointed it out. Guess I was too busy reading "TIM SCHAFFER WANTS TO MAKE ANOTEHR ADVENTURE GAME!! THIS IS SO NO-MAINSTREAM!!!".
There's a lot of trust going on, worth a million bucks.
There's a lot of trust going on, worth a million bucks.
@sheppy
Hm. Well I like my concept of a debate rather than "I'm going to act as if I'm talking to a retard."
1) At what point did "How other people spend their money shouldn't be your concern" become "You don't have a right to protest"? Notice the word "shouldn't". I simply think you're getting too worked up about this. And sure, I'm getting worked up too. But perhaps that might not have happened if *somebody* wasn't an insufferable douche.
2) By "pass" I meant "made into law."
3) I wasn't aware that you could pull funding from Kickstarter. Thank you for informing me of that. However, with your attitude, I doubt you'll convince anyone who's already donated to drop support.
Now this is going to be my last comment, because I would rather not sit here while you attempt to insult my intelligence over a video game. Because, you know, these things matter. Please learn how to talk to people like a decent human being.
Hm. Well I like my concept of a debate rather than "I'm going to act as if I'm talking to a retard."
1) At what point did "How other people spend their money shouldn't be your concern" become "You don't have a right to protest"? Notice the word "shouldn't". I simply think you're getting too worked up about this. And sure, I'm getting worked up too. But perhaps that might not have happened if *somebody* wasn't an insufferable douche.
2) By "pass" I meant "made into law."
3) I wasn't aware that you could pull funding from Kickstarter. Thank you for informing me of that. However, with your attitude, I doubt you'll convince anyone who's already donated to drop support.
Now this is going to be my last comment, because I would rather not sit here while you attempt to insult my intelligence over a video game. Because, you know, these things matter. Please learn how to talk to people like a decent human being.
Sorry sheppy, it still seems like you're worried about nothing. I have nothing but high hopes for Double Fine (though I haven't donated a cent to their kickstarter event) - and we can disagree on it. You're saying that Double Fine wasn't ready for a kickstarter event, that the company has been run poorly, and that they've crowded out the little guys. I disagree with all of these points.
Clearly they were ready for kickstarter. This kickstarter event actually prooves that you don't even need a project. Only the promise of something. And I feel they wouldn't have gotten any money to do it if they hadn't proved themselves in the industry already with their previous games. The people at the company made their names in the industry by making adventure games, and were clearly not being funded by publishers to do what they do best. People trust these guys. Just because you don't, doesn't mean that the kickstarter event was 'wrong'.
This kickstarter event proved what some of us knew all along. That we the people wanted an adventure game out of Double Fine, not another Sesame Street game. I'm not sure what I feel about Brutal Legend. But I know these guys have done great things, and have NOT been able to do an honest to goodness adventure game in years - even though that it what they are good at. But even more to the point: Your criticism of their games are well... just your opinion man. Again, look at the SUCCESS of the kickstarter event. You are clearly not looking at why it has succeeded, and only looking at the negatives.
The idea that they've crowded out the little guys is totally false. You have no solid evidence to prove that. And even if it were true, it would probably be okay because it is in the spirit of competition. Here's how I reacted: I funded a kickstarter event for my friends project rather than fund Double Fine's. I know I do want to see an adventure game from Double Fine, but I'd rather give my money to the under-underdogs. People will still fund smaller projects when they skim through kickstarter. The bigger teams are just getting kickstarter more eyeballs. You can't equate the money of Double Fine's kickstarter to 'potential' money of other kickstarters, because it wasn't about how much money people had to spend on kickstarter - it was about the specific individual interest in each project.
Lastly, I'm with burning soup. Please learn how to better talk to people like a decent human being. You won't convince anyone of anything with your condescending tone. I admire your passion though.
Clearly they were ready for kickstarter. This kickstarter event actually prooves that you don't even need a project. Only the promise of something. And I feel they wouldn't have gotten any money to do it if they hadn't proved themselves in the industry already with their previous games. The people at the company made their names in the industry by making adventure games, and were clearly not being funded by publishers to do what they do best. People trust these guys. Just because you don't, doesn't mean that the kickstarter event was 'wrong'.
This kickstarter event proved what some of us knew all along. That we the people wanted an adventure game out of Double Fine, not another Sesame Street game. I'm not sure what I feel about Brutal Legend. But I know these guys have done great things, and have NOT been able to do an honest to goodness adventure game in years - even though that it what they are good at. But even more to the point: Your criticism of their games are well... just your opinion man. Again, look at the SUCCESS of the kickstarter event. You are clearly not looking at why it has succeeded, and only looking at the negatives.
The idea that they've crowded out the little guys is totally false. You have no solid evidence to prove that. And even if it were true, it would probably be okay because it is in the spirit of competition. Here's how I reacted: I funded a kickstarter event for my friends project rather than fund Double Fine's. I know I do want to see an adventure game from Double Fine, but I'd rather give my money to the under-underdogs. People will still fund smaller projects when they skim through kickstarter. The bigger teams are just getting kickstarter more eyeballs. You can't equate the money of Double Fine's kickstarter to 'potential' money of other kickstarters, because it wasn't about how much money people had to spend on kickstarter - it was about the specific individual interest in each project.
Lastly, I'm with burning soup. Please learn how to better talk to people like a decent human being. You won't convince anyone of anything with your condescending tone. I admire your passion though.
