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So you say you don't think casual gamers are dumb then go around and call them shallow.
I'm sick to death of these arguements. If these so called casuals enjoy a simple game, and don't want to bother with a bunch if ridiculous, poorly acted/written games today, so be it.
I don't view games as art, because I don't care how they are viewed. That argument just shows a bunch of gamers trying to justify all the time they've wasted on games
I'm sick to death of these arguements. If these so called casuals enjoy a simple game, and don't want to bother with a bunch if ridiculous, poorly acted/written games today, so be it.
I don't view games as art, because I don't care how they are viewed. That argument just shows a bunch of gamers trying to justify all the time they've wasted on games
Casual gamers exsist but I don't think there is such a thing as a casual game.
I bought a wii at the weekend and I've been playing wii resort with my girlfriend and I tell you its competitive in our house!
I wouldn't want to second guess mr.sterling but I think the article was partly tongue in cheek and a little jab at the attitudes of "core gamers". The elitism of these people is shocking and worth taking the piss out of.
I bought a wii at the weekend and I've been playing wii resort with my girlfriend and I tell you its competitive in our house!
I wouldn't want to second guess mr.sterling but I think the article was partly tongue in cheek and a little jab at the attitudes of "core gamers". The elitism of these people is shocking and worth taking the piss out of.
lol, so Jim's argument is that I'd be smarter to buy a Yaris than the Ford GT I want because 1) both cars get you from A to B in pretty much the same way ... unless you're intending on travelling at impound-worthy speeds and 2) the Yaris is cheaper. That's fine advice for anyone who doesn't give a shit about the car they drive, but that's not me. I want the supercar because it's a better car technically and makes an awesome statement.
I'm that way about games too. I want more from them than keeping my fingers busy. Twiddling my thumbs is about as engaging as Farmville or any free casual game that's just a high-def copy of some game I played to death back when computer games barely had graphics. The games that excite me are the ones that advance the state of the art or present me with some awesome new experience.
Yeah, if you step back gaming is just a selfish way to kill some time like any other sort of entertainment. It's nothing I'll put on my resume, but I can at least waste that time playing a game that impresses me technically or engages me on some personal level, rather than being the bare minimum effort required to keep my clicking-finger busy. If Jim seriously can't tell the difference between the two (he probably can, and is just trollin') he's got nothing to offer gamers as a journalist.
I'm that way about games too. I want more from them than keeping my fingers busy. Twiddling my thumbs is about as engaging as Farmville or any free casual game that's just a high-def copy of some game I played to death back when computer games barely had graphics. The games that excite me are the ones that advance the state of the art or present me with some awesome new experience.
Yeah, if you step back gaming is just a selfish way to kill some time like any other sort of entertainment. It's nothing I'll put on my resume, but I can at least waste that time playing a game that impresses me technically or engages me on some personal level, rather than being the bare minimum effort required to keep my clicking-finger busy. If Jim seriously can't tell the difference between the two (he probably can, and is just trollin') he's got nothing to offer gamers as a journalist.
I think Jim is over-exaggerating to exemplify how stupid the argument is in general. Not to detract from a farmviller or a pwner. He is playing devil's advocate to give a voice to the casuals who have been really smeared by the established gaming community. Casuals really don't come back guns blazing because they really don't give a shit. My dad plays farmville for example and it can get kinda old with the constant barrage of requests he and his buddies flood my facebook account with, same as my friends who play Mafia Wars or any of the other "insert name here -villes" but do I consider him a "gamer"? No, and I don't think he would either.
Then again, what about social games like the Sims, or resource games like Viva Pinata or Harvest Moon or even bullshit shovelware games? These all follow the tenants of casual games but we pay 60 a pop for any of them new. We besmirch those who play them as casuals but if money is the sole issue, would that make them transcend into the ranks of committed or hardcore gaming since they are willing to shell out for them? Would we consider people who line up every year for Madden and play nothing but that franchise to be hardcore or even gamers?
I think the definition of casual is greatly changing. Before pogo and popcap, what was considered casual? Someone who played tetris or dr mario from time to time? Is hardcore exclusive to someone who logs tons of hours on WOW or only buys M rated games? What are the perameters to call oneself hard or soft core?
On the flip side, I don't think casuals are all that smarter for playing free-ware. They are still pumping millions into add-ons to these gaming apps and they are paying for internet to get these games. Nothing is free. Also people who play app-only gaming are sometimes the ones who are first in line to get those new I-Phones to have something to play their apps on.
@Pvppy - "...are the ones that advance the state of the art...or some awesome new experience"
Do you count retro games in that bunch since they aren't really state of the art or new? What's your view on something like "Cave Story" since it was originally freeware and used retro stylization? What about a 5.00 steam game? Or do you mean they can count because they were new at one point? Or are you just referring to clickware? Again, if money is an issue I think someone who pays 120.00 for a used copy of Earthbound would definitly make them pretty "hardcore" even though it isn't state of the art and they most likely played it before if they are will to spend that kind of dough on a 17 year old game.
Then again, what about social games like the Sims, or resource games like Viva Pinata or Harvest Moon or even bullshit shovelware games? These all follow the tenants of casual games but we pay 60 a pop for any of them new. We besmirch those who play them as casuals but if money is the sole issue, would that make them transcend into the ranks of committed or hardcore gaming since they are willing to shell out for them? Would we consider people who line up every year for Madden and play nothing but that franchise to be hardcore or even gamers?
I think the definition of casual is greatly changing. Before pogo and popcap, what was considered casual? Someone who played tetris or dr mario from time to time? Is hardcore exclusive to someone who logs tons of hours on WOW or only buys M rated games? What are the perameters to call oneself hard or soft core?
On the flip side, I don't think casuals are all that smarter for playing free-ware. They are still pumping millions into add-ons to these gaming apps and they are paying for internet to get these games. Nothing is free. Also people who play app-only gaming are sometimes the ones who are first in line to get those new I-Phones to have something to play their apps on.
@Pvppy - "...are the ones that advance the state of the art...or some awesome new experience"
Do you count retro games in that bunch since they aren't really state of the art or new? What's your view on something like "Cave Story" since it was originally freeware and used retro stylization? What about a 5.00 steam game? Or do you mean they can count because they were new at one point? Or are you just referring to clickware? Again, if money is an issue I think someone who pays 120.00 for a used copy of Earthbound would definitly make them pretty "hardcore" even though it isn't state of the art and they most likely played it before if they are will to spend that kind of dough on a 17 year old game.
"The second half of Sterling’s argument is that casual games, like Farmville, are no more pointless than hardcore games."
Erm, if this isn't a typo can you explain what you mean by it?
Also, very big mistake stating that games are art and using this as a premise of your argument.
Erm, if this isn't a typo can you explain what you mean by it?
Also, very big mistake stating that games are art and using this as a premise of your argument.
@Bluth - I always thought "casual" and "hardcore" were in terms of the player, not the game. Casual gaming maybe started with Tetris. Even my friends' moms would play, that shit was more popular than disco.
On the other hand there is nothing even slightly casual about setting the Tetris world record because OMFG SKILLS, SON. It's easy to imagine how a world-record player in Tetris could just as easily be demolishing "hardcore" games like Street Fighter or Wipeout.
That said, some games can be categorically casual. You can't apply any kind of gaming skill in Farmville, for example.
About my own post, I'm just saying that people who game as a hobby and give a damn about what they're playing are jaded. Our standards go up as we get more playable, better-featured software and more immersive stories / environments... developers need to work hard to make every new releases relevant and worth our money.
Old games can still present the player with something new. Anyone who picks up Ico for the first time today is going to have an awesome new experience. There are other games that deliver features that the rest of mainstream game development ignores or never catches up with... online couch co-op, for example. Halo had it first that I can think of, and every online game immediately afterwards would have been better for implementing it as well, but it's remained a very elusive thing.
On the other hand there is nothing even slightly casual about setting the Tetris world record because OMFG SKILLS, SON. It's easy to imagine how a world-record player in Tetris could just as easily be demolishing "hardcore" games like Street Fighter or Wipeout.
That said, some games can be categorically casual. You can't apply any kind of gaming skill in Farmville, for example.
About my own post, I'm just saying that people who game as a hobby and give a damn about what they're playing are jaded. Our standards go up as we get more playable, better-featured software and more immersive stories / environments... developers need to work hard to make every new releases relevant and worth our money.
Old games can still present the player with something new. Anyone who picks up Ico for the first time today is going to have an awesome new experience. There are other games that deliver features that the rest of mainstream game development ignores or never catches up with... online couch co-op, for example. Halo had it first that I can think of, and every online game immediately afterwards would have been better for implementing it as well, but it's remained a very elusive thing.
I want to explain what I take the terms "casual" and "hardcore" to mean. "Hardcore" is easier to explain. If you buy video games somewhat regularly and follow the news related to them, you are definitely hardcore. Anyone who reads Destructoid is hardcore. "Casual" gamers are the ones who only buy one or two video games per year, which would be big-name, accessible games. The people you know who only buy each yearly Call of Duty, or Madden, are casual. Casual gamers even occasionally buy games that we would consider to be hardcore, such as a GTA or a triple-A Nintendo game. Basically, the distinction between the two comes down to how much they play video games, and what they want out of their video games.
@Toadofsky
I said that I don't think casual gamers are dumb, and I never mentioned whether or not they are shallow. I did say that they don't necessarily play the best games, and that they aren't interested in video games they way that you and I are.
@Byronic Man
"The second half of Sterling’s argument is that casual games, like Farmville, are no more pointless than hardcore games."
This is in reference to something Jim said in his video, actually. He said, "Some of you will argue, 'well, it's just a more pointless game.' And again I ask why? Can you give me a solid reason why leveling up your farm is any less relevant than leveling up some character in Final Fantasy?" So he's saying that Farmville is no more pointless than Final Fantasy, right?
@Toadofsky
I said that I don't think casual gamers are dumb, and I never mentioned whether or not they are shallow. I did say that they don't necessarily play the best games, and that they aren't interested in video games they way that you and I are.
@Byronic Man
"The second half of Sterling’s argument is that casual games, like Farmville, are no more pointless than hardcore games."
This is in reference to something Jim said in his video, actually. He said, "Some of you will argue, 'well, it's just a more pointless game.' And again I ask why? Can you give me a solid reason why leveling up your farm is any less relevant than leveling up some character in Final Fantasy?" So he's saying that Farmville is no more pointless than Final Fantasy, right?
The only point I would like to add. I have talked with many people who play causal games only. And the problem seems to be;
1.) They don't have the time or the money to play anything more then this
2.) They are completely afraid of anything more then this.
That last one is the truest point of all. They really believe that they are going to do it wrong some how? You get better at gaming by doing it, we all know this. But instead, I see fear in people's eyes -- like I just hand them a shot gun. "What am I supposed to do with this thing?"
This is a problem, which goes beyond "us vs. them". This seems to goes almost to the core of somebody's inner psyche. What can be done about a person or group of people, who are afraid and unwilling to try anything new?
1.) They don't have the time or the money to play anything more then this
2.) They are completely afraid of anything more then this.
That last one is the truest point of all. They really believe that they are going to do it wrong some how? You get better at gaming by doing it, we all know this. But instead, I see fear in people's eyes -- like I just hand them a shot gun. "What am I supposed to do with this thing?"
This is a problem, which goes beyond "us vs. them". This seems to goes almost to the core of somebody's inner psyche. What can be done about a person or group of people, who are afraid and unwilling to try anything new?

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