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@flintmech
Yes, I can tell that you're sick of the topic. Feel free to not comment if you don't want to.
Yes, I can tell that you're sick of the topic. Feel free to not comment if you don't want to.
2 completely different experiences Pedro but whatever, people should simply shut up and never demand better of things they pay for.
@Kyousuke
If the game were broken, that'd be a completely different story. Demanding money and change because "Waaaaaah, I didn't like it!" is something completely different.
If the game were broken, that'd be a completely different story. Demanding money and change because "Waaaaaah, I didn't like it!" is something completely different.
"Then again, I guess it's a lot easier to just sit on your thrones and complain, isn't it?"
Then again, I guess it's a lot easier to just sit on your throne and dismiss the complaints of tens of thousands of people as a joke, isn't it?
The words 'retake' and 'demand' are simply poor choices, but in the end of the day that's just discussing semantics.
Seriously, I don't flat out hate the endings, but I think people very much have a right to complain about what they don't like. Though the words 'Retake' and 'Demand' are simply poorly chosen. Just the simple fact that the sheer scale of complaints is unprecedented in the world of videogames gives it validity. I think it's not very wise of developers to ignore this event, and even less so of videogame-journalist to condemn it outright.
Lastly, your comparison to movies is moot. Games aren't movies, games are games. They're interactive, which makes it much more personal than any movie possibly could. And a gamer you invest much more time in most games than in almost any movie, especially when it comes to Role Playing Games.
Oh yeah, movies have test-screenings, which often results in certain changes based on audience-reception. And don't forget about Directors Cut's, which sometimes include an alternative version with a different ending.
It has happened before with movies, with certain books (Sherlock Holmes), why can't it happen to games? Why can't there be an alternative ending DLC if the response asking for it is so overwhelming?
Then again, I guess it's a lot easier to just sit on your throne and dismiss the complaints of tens of thousands of people as a joke, isn't it?
The words 'retake' and 'demand' are simply poor choices, but in the end of the day that's just discussing semantics.
Seriously, I don't flat out hate the endings, but I think people very much have a right to complain about what they don't like. Though the words 'Retake' and 'Demand' are simply poorly chosen. Just the simple fact that the sheer scale of complaints is unprecedented in the world of videogames gives it validity. I think it's not very wise of developers to ignore this event, and even less so of videogame-journalist to condemn it outright.
Lastly, your comparison to movies is moot. Games aren't movies, games are games. They're interactive, which makes it much more personal than any movie possibly could. And a gamer you invest much more time in most games than in almost any movie, especially when it comes to Role Playing Games.
Oh yeah, movies have test-screenings, which often results in certain changes based on audience-reception. And don't forget about Directors Cut's, which sometimes include an alternative version with a different ending.
It has happened before with movies, with certain books (Sherlock Holmes), why can't it happen to games? Why can't there be an alternative ending DLC if the response asking for it is so overwhelming?
And just to make it clear to you: No, I'm not harassing Bioware for it and my world wouldn't stop turning if they didn't address it.
@Forsakeneyes
I have absolutely no issues with people complaining about the ending. They can complain until they're blue in the face -- Hell, I do it with a ton of games, myself. But I don't go on a crusade and try to make the company remake the entire game because I didn't like it.
I never dismissed the complaints as pointless, nor did I say no one had a right to do so. What I said was no one has a right to act like they were on the development team creating the game itself, and they aren't in any position to try to make Bioware change anything. If they didn't like the ending, then they didn't like the ending, and they're free to discuss it. That's the extent.
I'm completely fine with an alternate ending, if Bioware so chooses to create it. You're correct, it happens with movies all the time. But dismissing an entire series just because the ending was less than agreeable is asinine, and that's exactly what's been happening.
I have absolutely no issues with people complaining about the ending. They can complain until they're blue in the face -- Hell, I do it with a ton of games, myself. But I don't go on a crusade and try to make the company remake the entire game because I didn't like it.
I never dismissed the complaints as pointless, nor did I say no one had a right to do so. What I said was no one has a right to act like they were on the development team creating the game itself, and they aren't in any position to try to make Bioware change anything. If they didn't like the ending, then they didn't like the ending, and they're free to discuss it. That's the extent.
I'm completely fine with an alternate ending, if Bioware so chooses to create it. You're correct, it happens with movies all the time. But dismissing an entire series just because the ending was less than agreeable is asinine, and that's exactly what's been happening.
"People actually go out of their way to DEMAND that Lucas rewrite his stories to how THEY say the movies should be."
What the fuck, is this Opposite Day?
What the fuck, is this Opposite Day?
@Sir Legendhead
Huh? I was making a comparison between the current state of Mass Effect fans and way over-the-top Star Wars fans.
Huh? I was making a comparison between the current state of Mass Effect fans and way over-the-top Star Wars fans.
@pedrovay2003: If you're completely fine with Bioware creating an alternative ending then why are you dismissing the RetakeME3 movement? I'm not saying people should be demanding it, lest they burn Bioware to the ground. But if people want to make themselves heard, you know, to send Bioware the signal that there is a strong demand, initiatives like this are pretty much perfect for it. The aim of RetakeME3 is to send Bioware a message while remaining as civil as possible.
It's a whole lot better than the blind hatred and vitriol a lot of fans are spewing just about everywhere. Those I loath as well. Calling out for the deaths of certain members of the development team? That is where you lose my support. Luckily, they do not represent the fanbase as a whole. Retards are everywhere, don't let them skew your views.
I also agree about a the charity thing. Wonderful that they're raising tens of thousands of dollars for sick children? Absolutely! Wonderful that they're doing it with a clear agenda in mind? Nope, though they wouldn't be the first to use charity to get their points across. Again it's the lesser of two evils, people donating to charity to get themselves heard instead of blatantly ripping on everything Bioware / Mass Effect related.
"But dismissing an entire series just because the ending was less than agreeable is asinine, and that's exactly what's been happening."
Agreed, but the ME3 ending made me lose the desire to replay the previous Mass Effect games to see how the choices would play out differently. A lot of people seem to be feeling that way, and I guess that's why you see messages like "HURR THEY RUINED MASS EFFECT". Personally I'm thankful for the two wonderful games and the 95% of ME3 that wasn't borked.
It's a whole lot better than the blind hatred and vitriol a lot of fans are spewing just about everywhere. Those I loath as well. Calling out for the deaths of certain members of the development team? That is where you lose my support. Luckily, they do not represent the fanbase as a whole. Retards are everywhere, don't let them skew your views.
I also agree about a the charity thing. Wonderful that they're raising tens of thousands of dollars for sick children? Absolutely! Wonderful that they're doing it with a clear agenda in mind? Nope, though they wouldn't be the first to use charity to get their points across. Again it's the lesser of two evils, people donating to charity to get themselves heard instead of blatantly ripping on everything Bioware / Mass Effect related.
"But dismissing an entire series just because the ending was less than agreeable is asinine, and that's exactly what's been happening."
Agreed, but the ME3 ending made me lose the desire to replay the previous Mass Effect games to see how the choices would play out differently. A lot of people seem to be feeling that way, and I guess that's why you see messages like "HURR THEY RUINED MASS EFFECT". Personally I'm thankful for the two wonderful games and the 95% of ME3 that wasn't borked.
@Forsakeneyes
I guess I just don't like the attitude that's been taken, I guess. It seems like they're more whiny than civil, but I guess that's only what I've read myself. I do think that a lot of it just has to do with the fact that I think there's much more pressure on Bioware than there should be from "fans" that are going batshit crazy.
Yeah, I also heard about the death threats. That seems to happen with a bunch of things, from games to movies to anime. It never ends, and it slightly makes me give up on humanity a little bit.
Also, I wanted to personally thank you for a pretty awesome conversation on here -- I appreciate the fact that you haven't outright assaulted me because we have differing opinions on a few things here.
I guess I just don't like the attitude that's been taken, I guess. It seems like they're more whiny than civil, but I guess that's only what I've read myself. I do think that a lot of it just has to do with the fact that I think there's much more pressure on Bioware than there should be from "fans" that are going batshit crazy.
Yeah, I also heard about the death threats. That seems to happen with a bunch of things, from games to movies to anime. It never ends, and it slightly makes me give up on humanity a little bit.
Also, I wanted to personally thank you for a pretty awesome conversation on here -- I appreciate the fact that you haven't outright assaulted me because we have differing opinions on a few things here.
I've never heard a Star Wars fan say that the films should be rewritten. It's the opposite, actually, the uproar is usually over Lucas changing things which should have been left alone.
@Pedrovay2003:
The problem isn't with people complaining, it's how they choose to voice their complaints. Sadly, a lot of people take the easy, primitively satisfying route of just letting all of their emotions out. I think it sucks, but it also shows just how much people care about this stuff, I guess.
Bioware is taking an unprecedented amount of flak for this, and lot's of it is rage. I don't like that, I really don't. I feel kind of sorry for the community team who has to deal with this giant mess. I mean, getting angry about something sometimes feels great, but often closes more doors than it opens, you know? That's why I applaud the efforts to keep the lines of communication between Bioware and fans open and civilized. But we're literally swimming in a sea of dumbasses, unfortunately.
The quite frankly very juvenile coverage from Destructoid as well as others is just another shot in the foot. It really doesn't help anyone, apart from making people laugh who thought this all was way too silly to begin with, it only stirs up even more rage.
All in all, I honestly can understand very well why you're getting the impressions that you have. With so much hatred flying around it's really easy to get blinded by it and sometimes the videogame community 'out there' pretty much does suck balls. Some responses really make me ashamed of my fellow gamers and I always hated things like the console-wars and whatnot. I just wanted to respond to show you that we're definitely not all the same and that rage really isn't the way to move forward with this.
Honestly, from the tone of your blogpost I was expecting much worse than what you replied with. So yes, thank you in return for staying friendly.
The problem isn't with people complaining, it's how they choose to voice their complaints. Sadly, a lot of people take the easy, primitively satisfying route of just letting all of their emotions out. I think it sucks, but it also shows just how much people care about this stuff, I guess.
Bioware is taking an unprecedented amount of flak for this, and lot's of it is rage. I don't like that, I really don't. I feel kind of sorry for the community team who has to deal with this giant mess. I mean, getting angry about something sometimes feels great, but often closes more doors than it opens, you know? That's why I applaud the efforts to keep the lines of communication between Bioware and fans open and civilized. But we're literally swimming in a sea of dumbasses, unfortunately.
The quite frankly very juvenile coverage from Destructoid as well as others is just another shot in the foot. It really doesn't help anyone, apart from making people laugh who thought this all was way too silly to begin with, it only stirs up even more rage.
All in all, I honestly can understand very well why you're getting the impressions that you have. With so much hatred flying around it's really easy to get blinded by it and sometimes the videogame community 'out there' pretty much does suck balls. Some responses really make me ashamed of my fellow gamers and I always hated things like the console-wars and whatnot. I just wanted to respond to show you that we're definitely not all the same and that rage really isn't the way to move forward with this.
Honestly, from the tone of your blogpost I was expecting much worse than what you replied with. So yes, thank you in return for staying friendly.
@Sir Legendhead
That's what I was talking about, the uproar when Lucas changes shit. My point was that they're his movies -- If we don't like them, we don't have to watch them. We have the old versions. Just because we don't like them doesn't mean he has to go back in and change everything. He can do what he wants with them, even if it pisses veteran fans off.
@Forsekeneyes
I think you hit the nail on the head. The ONLY type of coverage to be found is the rage aspect of the situation, and like you said, it's absolutely staggering how much there is. I just can't understand SO MUCH HATRED over a video game, and one that was, for the most part, excellent, as you pointed out. But whatever, I suppose -- I'm not going to let it take away my own enjoyment of the game. And you're right, I realize not everyone is a crazy extremist -- That's like the way people are herded into proverbial groups when crap happens around the world in real life, too.
That's what I was talking about, the uproar when Lucas changes shit. My point was that they're his movies -- If we don't like them, we don't have to watch them. We have the old versions. Just because we don't like them doesn't mean he has to go back in and change everything. He can do what he wants with them, even if it pisses veteran fans off.
@Forsekeneyes
I think you hit the nail on the head. The ONLY type of coverage to be found is the rage aspect of the situation, and like you said, it's absolutely staggering how much there is. I just can't understand SO MUCH HATRED over a video game, and one that was, for the most part, excellent, as you pointed out. But whatever, I suppose -- I'm not going to let it take away my own enjoyment of the game. And you're right, I realize not everyone is a crazy extremist -- That's like the way people are herded into proverbial groups when crap happens around the world in real life, too.
I'm sorry that you feel this way, but I have to disagree. This is NOTHING like the fans that "demand" that Lucas change Star Wars. Though, now that I think about it, there are some similarities. George suddenly decided, despite numerous books and other "canon" media stating otherwise, that Lightsabers only come in red, green, blue and purple. Why would he suddenly decide to change established canon like that? Some fans were upset, but at this point most just laugh off some of his statements and have their own opinions.
Whoever wrote the endings to Mass Effect 3 seems to have done something similar. There are plot holes and questions that, if given a moment to consider, are massive in scope. Characters that act way out of character, and only in the last moments of the game.
But the real issue here is the difference between Mass Effect and a movie. In a Movie, or even the majority of other games, you watch the action play out in scripted events. Sometimes you have control of those events or how they unfold, but ultimately, you are watching someone else's story. In Mass Effect, that is not true. Shepard is an extension of the player in a defined world. All of Shepard's decisions are the player's decisions. This is not Bioware's story, it is the player's story, set in the confines of Bioware's game. To end that story with little to no closure is terrible.
If you really played the games throughout the series, and yet felt no particular attachment to the character you created, that's fine. I, and many like me, did. All we are asking for is for Bioware to work with us to finish the stories we started together.
Whoever wrote the endings to Mass Effect 3 seems to have done something similar. There are plot holes and questions that, if given a moment to consider, are massive in scope. Characters that act way out of character, and only in the last moments of the game.
But the real issue here is the difference between Mass Effect and a movie. In a Movie, or even the majority of other games, you watch the action play out in scripted events. Sometimes you have control of those events or how they unfold, but ultimately, you are watching someone else's story. In Mass Effect, that is not true. Shepard is an extension of the player in a defined world. All of Shepard's decisions are the player's decisions. This is not Bioware's story, it is the player's story, set in the confines of Bioware's game. To end that story with little to no closure is terrible.
If you really played the games throughout the series, and yet felt no particular attachment to the character you created, that's fine. I, and many like me, did. All we are asking for is for Bioware to work with us to finish the stories we started together.
@Gregory Lyon
While I agree that I felt an attachment to my Shepard, and I agree that the decisions I made mattered, those decisions ONLY mattered throughout the journey itself, and never had any real bearing on the overall story itself. The stories and endings throughout every single game in the series always ended the same way, no matter what your decisions were. There was always a set ending that EVERY player achieved, no matter what interactive decisions were made.
The story of Mass Effect 3 may not have been happy, but that by no means makes it bad. And the way in which the ending was achieved was no different that the first two games, and no one exploded over those. There was always a definite story for all players to see, and no way of manipulating the outcome. The decision making engine was all about the journey, not the ending, and that never changed throughout the series.
While I agree that I felt an attachment to my Shepard, and I agree that the decisions I made mattered, those decisions ONLY mattered throughout the journey itself, and never had any real bearing on the overall story itself. The stories and endings throughout every single game in the series always ended the same way, no matter what your decisions were. There was always a set ending that EVERY player achieved, no matter what interactive decisions were made.
The story of Mass Effect 3 may not have been happy, but that by no means makes it bad. And the way in which the ending was achieved was no different that the first two games, and no one exploded over those. There was always a definite story for all players to see, and no way of manipulating the outcome. The decision making engine was all about the journey, not the ending, and that never changed throughout the series.
