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living the dream since March 16, 2006 |
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I don't think "fun" is in the definition of game. Games are about competition and strategy. Fun is a by-product. The Prisoner's Dilemma is a "game". But sitting in the clink trying to decide whether or not to rat out your comrade isn't "fun".
I guess it depends on what a person's definition of art actually means. For me it is something that is creative and the labor of love from the developer. Anything from the gameplay to the visual direction. Other people prefer more the meaning behind the game and the emotions it evokes. Not all games have to be fun but if a developer wants to become rich someday it better be!! :P
Really you could take a black and white picture of a dog turd and people will be going off about how it represents how people have to watch out during life and look ahead or else they'll find themselves in bad situations. Anything can be art!!
I don't think you can confine the definition of fun for everyone into a single category. Every person has a different interpretation of fun and what they enjoy doing. For you, seeing quality art in the game is fun. For others, however, they may find solving puzzles, quality gameplay, challenge, or the competition and strategy in battling a difficult opponent. Everyone views it differently.
You like art in games. That's fine.
I, however, much more enjoy competition and challenge in games. It's not that I don't enjoy beautiful games, it's just not what defines fun for me.
SOTC, taken as an overall experience, was higher art (for me) than say, Breath of Fire III. Yet I loved the art style of BOF3 way more than the serene/melancholy of SOTC.
"Now I understand that many people don’t like to think when playing games and that’s fine"
Good God, I suppose its true that some people don't think when they game. Am I in the minority for thinking while I game? I suppose it would explain the success of certain titles/platforms...
I think you missed the point of what I am saying.
I am not talking about any given item such as graphics, story, ideas, or gameplay, but rather talking about all of them.
And no, The Real Prisoner's Dilemma study they did in 1950 is not a game and I would say that anyone that thinks so is twisted. But the Game of Prisoner's Dilemma could be thought to be fun and intriguing. And in both cases the definition would apply and someone was having fun from intrigue. Or the game would not be played at all in the 1st place.
And as for game: we are going to be using the noun;
a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators.
It's entirely dependent on how the individual chooses to define "fun", meaning there can be no definitive answer here. For some people intellectual stimulation in and of itself is fun, for others not.
If someone says that they thought a game was artistic and/or interesting but they didn't find it particularly fun to play, can you really tell them in good conscience that they're wrong?
Well yes I could for artistic and/or interesting. If you could say a game is artistic that means it has held your interest to even declare it is artistic
And when we check our list of synonyms:
absorbing, entertaining. Interesting, pleasing, gratifying mean satisfying to the mind.
That is what comes of for interesting.
Or by definition
engaging or exciting and holding the attention or curiosity
arousing a feeling of interest
@GamingGoddess:
Exactly how does a game simultaneously be interesting yet not fun?
Something can easily be interesting and not fun at the same time. Things such as:
- chemistry
- death
- bungee jumping
- illnesses
- calculus
- politics
- baseball
- Heroes
- art galleries
- manufacturing jobs (ugh)
See!! All these things can be "interesting" but "fun" is not a word I would use to describe them. For me at least :P
You can't have something interesting and then not entertaining. And if something is entertaining it is fun.
If any of those things interest you then it is fun to think about them.
To be honest with you nightv, I agree with 100% of what you just said.
Jolly good show, mate.
Dude I guess I just feel differently on the topic. I can read an article in the newspaper on a grisly murder of a family that could hold my interest. I could even possibly follow how the story progresses. But just because I want the son of a bitch who did it caught and justice paid out doesn't mean I think anything about the situation is "fun".
Even with the things I listed, I can have an interest out of respect for these things. I find them fascinating in how they integrate with our lives but that's where it stops. As I said, I find chemistry interesting but if I found it fun I wouldn't have failed it. Same as calculus.
I may not agree with your opinion, and it may not be directly out video games, but damn did you start a good discussion :)
Aaa I see.
You classify fascinating/curiosity and interesting together as one in the same.
I do not and I think we just found out that in this world there are two types of people in this world.
People who hold fascinating/curiosity and interesting as the same.
And people that don't.
Now that is interesting and opens up this topic to "do people think that games that try to be art are fascinating."
Were is Rev when you need self proclaimed number one authority on the matter.