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i'll be honest i haven't use live for abot a year now because it costs me too much but if you think about it why is xboxlive binded with costs? read this post and jump in. this was posted by dwells55x on the xbox forum. An open letter to Microsoft: So, really, what *are* we paying for? I won’t pretend that this is a completely original idea and no one else has ever raised the question of why Xbox Live is a pay service. In fact, I used to be one of the people who argued against them and supported Xbox Live. But, with recent Xbox Live troubles and news, it’s becoming significantly more difficult to do this. Having taken the time to really look at the state of Xbox Live is making me have to start agreeing with the people who I used to argue against. Let’s start with the recent Xbox Live downtime. It is, quite frankly, absolutely unacceptable for a pay service. Until a few days ago, my brother had a two week period where he could not recover his GamerTag from Xbox Live. That’s two weeks of no Xbox Live access whatsoever. He tried deleting the profile of his Xbox and recovering it again, but this didn’t work either. Now he couldn’t even access his game saves or earn any achievements. Although I had my account on my Xbox, that’s not to say everything’s been great. Like the rest of you, I’ve been experiencing a lot of trouble with Xbox Live. Inability to join games, sign in to Xbox Live, load the dashboard blades, sometimes problems bad enough to freeze my 360 entirely until I pulled out the Ethernet cable. Yes, we’re getting a free Xbox Live Arcade game as compensation for nearly 3 weeks of Xbox Live downtime. Woohoo. No details have been given, and as a result I suspect that this free game will be a specific title or list of titles which Microsoft will choose. I feel that at the very least we deserve to be either refunded for a month of Xbox Live or given a free month on top of this. Think about it, if your cell phone service had trouble for a month, dropping calls, refusing to dial numbers, etc., you wouldn’t be satisfied with a free cell phone game. The first step would be a refund for that month and then some sort of compensation for the inconvenience on top of that. Connection troubles aside, there’s other reasons why I feel Xbox Live shouldn’t be a pay service. As of March 1, 2008, Xbox Live Diamond will become an additional $6.95 fee. No thanks. Not only was this service close to worthless, but to charge for something that was supposed to be a benefit of paying for the Xbox Live service is absurd. It was pathetic as a freebie and to think anyone is willing to pay for this is ridiculous. Next up, Xbox Live is full of ads. Even when you first boot up your Xbox 360, you’re greeted with ads on the Xbox Live blade. While this may not seem like a huge issue, how would you feel if your internet service provider, who you pay a fee to, placed ads on the desktop of your computer (which you also paid for)? Gold members should at the very least be given an option to disable these ads. Xbox Live also feels the need to wrap content in restrictive DRM schemes that limit users’ access to the items they’ve purchased. Worst of all, this is done without proper warning of just how restrictive it is. Xbox Live Arcade titles and dashboard themes are unusable when not connected to Xbox Live unless you are on the same Xbox they are purchased on. So, as a reward for being a loyal customer and upgrading to the Halo 3 edition of the Xbox 360, all the content I purchased on my previous content is now unusable when I’m not signed into Live on the account I purchased them from. This means that when Xbox Live is having trouble or when I’m on vacation or anywhere else I don’t have steady high speed internet access, I can’t play the games which I have paid for. Despite the fee for Xbox Live, networking is almost entirely peer to peer reliant. There are no dedicated servers for games, something which has been long available to PC games with no online fee. The average residential high speed internet connection often does not have an upload bandwidth capable of properly supporting large amounts of players. This results in lag and allows for exploits relying on network manipulation, for example the standby cheating which plagued Halo 2. One would think that the fee for Xbox Live would entitle users to extra content to justify the fee. However, Microsoft allows companies to charge often high prices for nearly every single piece of downloadable content for games. This setup for the Xbox Live Marketplace encourages developers to either purposefully withhold content or release games lacking content with the intent of later releasing and charging an additional fee for the rest of the content. Xbox Live’s content setup may even discourage free content. Epic Games founder Tim Sweeney is quoted in a 1Up Podcast as saying that “We've been wanting to give them away for a long time, but actually Microsoft has been pushing back on us for that.” The video game magazine Game Informer supported this in a 2007 issue where they also claimed that Microsoft forces companies to charge for content they wish to distribute. I do not doubt this to be the case, as free content for online PC games has long been the standard. Call of Duty 4 currently has a new downloadable map available for PC users which is absent from the 360 version. So, what exactly is Xbox Live offering its paying customers? A unified friends list? The same feature has been available to PC gamers through free applications such as XFire and Steam. Put simply, the features of Xbox Live simply do not justify its price when considering the free services offered by the competitors and the robust structure of online PC gaming. Although I’m sure many are likely to disagree with me and simply respond with “if you don’t like it, don’t pay,” it’s not quite that simple. Without an online service, my games and the console itself lose much of their playability and worth. I also lose contact with my friends who still use Xbox Live. So unless I’m willing to cut off contact with my friends and make my system no longer worth playing, no longer paying for Xbox Live isn’t really an option. I’d like to hear the thoughts of the rest of the community. I feel that now, in light of the recent Xbox Live downtime, is a good time to start changing Xbox Live for the better.
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I laugh at these rants...just think of it this way. If this is how the pay scheme works, imagine how horrible the NON-PAY works!
So there was a bump in the holidays, get over it! M$ is far from perfect.
Great read however.
The rest of your post here is interesting. I'm still not sure I think it's unreasonable to have a payed service like XBL, but I do agree with a number of your points about things MS should be doing for it's paying customers (us) that it isn't. You bring up a lot of good points, and it's definitely a lot to think about.
Also, don't repost shit without linking the source. Maybe I'd like to join in on the original discussion.
There was a nice post on the FP of Digg yesterday where someone went and read the TOS of joining Xbox Live. Guess what? By agreeing to sign up for their service, you agree to dick on terms of letting you get anything out of them.
They don't owe you jack. They tell you in the fine print that if XBL went offline for a whole fucking year they're not responsible.
Don't like it? Don't use it.
This cannot be good for Microsoft, after they just started to recover from the RROD crisis.
Also, really interesting to read.
However, comparing xbox live to pc systems doesnt work, im afraid :
Online Pc gaming is free because it always has been, and youd be stupid or naive to start trying to force it now (or just plain arrogant, like MS).
As for updates and dlc, piracy applies to that too - and i suspect that most legal owners of pc games wouldnt be prepared to pay like you do on xbox live(i wouldnt).
Heck, its the same for drm. They tried it with Bioshock, and boy did it backfire on them.
Dedicated servers work on pc because of limited player numbers, and well established gaming groups and sites. Remember, not every pc can run every game, thus limiting player numbers.
Also, there are probably 100's of popular online pc games (since we have rts and mmo besides fps), so the numbers per game is limited further. Hence, the gaming groups can afford to set up a number of dedicated servers, normally for a few games that the majority of their members play.
This cant really be done on xbox live, because there are just too many people playing a few games like Halo 3 and Cod 4.
Basically, they couldnt provide enough servers, and then theyd have even more angry gamers... Bungie has a great write up about this stuff - Id go get the link, but im lazy - just google "Halo 3 dedicated servers". This also brings up links on how to make your own!
Finally, dont think that pc gaming is perfect. Theres little consistency between games. Steam is fantastic , of course, but is every game on steam? No. Give live the credit it is due, for having everything integrated in one - in fact, steams updates over the last year have essentially been taking good stuff from live(better chat, voice chat, seeing what friends are playing, etc).
Not to mention, matchmaking! Ive played halo 3 a few times online... matchmaking was brilliant! Waiting for ages for a spot to open on the one dedicated server with people in it and decent ping is frustrating to say the least.
Overall, i think you should remember that what you're paying for is reliability, in particular for multiplayer(if you just want a friends list, buy a pc :P), and this is why i agree with you. At the moment, you're not getting what you pay for, and MS needs to do something about it (that free arcade game shit doesnt count).
I don't think that a bump in Holiday usage is a vialble cause for such problems. Is this what we are to look forward to as the install base of the XBOX 360 grows dramatically in the coming years? Right now there's probably about 15 million, and I assume that that number is going to at least double or triple in the next 5 years. I personally have refused to pay for xbox live. Every xbox comes with 3 free one month trial accounts. A year later and I've used only one of them.
Speaking of Xbox live, why haven't they reset the millions of permanently lost gamer tags? To me that's the biggets piss off. Every single gamer tag ever used on xbox or xbox 360 that has been inactive for 6 months is unrecoverable, yet cannot be reused. Its basically led to everyone putting retarded symbols in front of their names.
To my knowledge, isn't the holidays meant to be spent with family and friends...
If you really want a refund, here is the $4.62 that they would owe you for seven days offline. (79.95 / 365 = 0.22 * 21 = $4.62)
I then played some bomberman and things were going well until that next day when I couldn't log on to Live and keep a connection going. I tried for over an hour to play CoD4 online and failed cause I kept getting disconnected. It was like this for at least a week.
This could have been extremely frustrating from a new/uninformed user (not me). I know for a fact that at least one person returned their new 360 because the online "didn't work." I knew what was going on through Dtoid and MajorNelson.com, but these people didn't. On top of RRoD this is just bad PR for MS and 360.
I agree with much you have said. I noticed the ads. I felt slighted by them.
I realize PSN isn't super spectacular yet, but they're working on it. With time it will be a comparable service (this year if things go well), and people will start to question why one is 50$ and the other is 0$.
Saying Boo Hoo and calling people cry babies isn't going to solve anything. He made valid arguments for why and asked for our opinions. This is one of the better cblogs in days.
Keep it up.
I've also wondered why we pay for an 'online' service that offers no real incentives for actually paying compared to the PC market. Steam offers almost everything for free just short of the games. Even with the obvious bandwidth costs for downloading gig sized demos on XBL, Silver users get access to these as well and they don't pay a cent. So all we're really paying for is the ability to play with our friends, and we shouldn't have to pay for that.
I've never heard of Xbox Live Diamond before and looking into it, it sounds like a rather unremarkable and useless service, and once again not worth the money that Microsoft is making us pay to get it.
I hate the DRM scheme, I know too many individuals who have been wronged by it and realize that it's doing nothing to stop piracy and only hurting the consumer.
The service is spotty, I hate a lot of what it does, and yet I still pay for it. I'm a consumer whore, and Microsoft has me by the balls.
First of all, the Diamond card issue is unrelated to Live and irrelevant.
Second, the DRM is imposed by the content providers, not Microsoft. Apple's upcoming movie downloads over iTunes have similar restrictions.
Third, Live never went down. It's just been overloaded with an influx of users from the holidays. I, personally, haven't been affected by the "outages".
Fourth, the ads aren't really even that intrusive and do not adversely effect your use of the service. I find them to be quite informative when new arcade games or other content is released.
Fifth, the cost is justified (but could be a little cheaper). You're getting dedicated, secure, and (mostly) reliable servers to play hundreds of games on. Bandwidth and server maintenance are expensive.
Sixth, Live is the best service out there right now.
Fuck, you could even pay 7 bucks a month if you can't afford to part with 50 at once. And I never even had a problem connecting after Xmas, it's been working fine for me. The only thing I have against it is the fuckin DRM on the games.
Everything else is fine, and no one is perfect. What a douche.