6:30 PM on 03.29.2011 | manasteel88

[For his Monthly Musing, manasteel88 talks about the optional enemies and challenges that show up in games. Sometimes, these challenges are even more difficult than the final bosses. This month is almost over, so be on the look out for next month's musing topic on April 1st! -- JRo]
Say what you will about RPGs, they have the potential to create some well thought out enemies. Small grunts follow some invisible hierarchy that separates you from the big baddies of a dungeon. Even those bosses eventually push you forward to your real destination. The final confrontation, whether it comes from the world destroyer, the demon or even a god, will challenge the time and energy put in to your game.
I'm not talking about those guys.
No, I'm talking about the thing running around the vast world, that just happens to give you a world of trouble when you face it. Defeating this won't save a princess, nor will it change anything substantial in your game. It is just something that must be stopped. It has become a goal that must be overcome.
The big baddies won't destroy the world without me there anyway.
When I was running through Nier recently, I decided to stumble off the beaten path to a region just south of the village. This area was full of newer animals for me to kill for their meat. With this new game in sight, I attacked. As soon as my second strike was about to hit the animal, a beam hits both of us. It struck with such force that my opponent had exploded.
As I looked to my right, here stood a giant lumbering wordbeast.
It was on.
For 25 minutes I danced around this guy, blocking and rolling as he shot laser after laser at me. I was able to stay just outside his range for the most part and fire off my lance as he trudged toward me. Realistically, all this time spent focusing on a giant could probably have been spent efficiently leveling up my character to even out the playing field.
I however will not be beaten in a battle that can be won.
So I sat and I slowly whittled him down to nothing. Then with only a small fraction of his life bar still left on him, I carelessly got hit by a big one.
I died and a controller was thrown.
I had spent more time whittling this colossus down, than any other enemy I had faced in the game at that point. All because I couldn't do things the simpler way.
This same situation happened in Mass Effect for me, except for a completely different reason. The way that the achievement system works is that achievements for kills are placed behind limitations of the user's class. In the same way a Soldier can't use a Biotics abilities, a Biotic doesn't have access to the full range of weaponry that a soldier has. This limitation makes it difficult to master all abilities in one playthrough. That is unless you go out of your way to get the achievements.
I went out of my way.
In my first playthrough, I decided to try and take on a Geth Colossus with a sniper rifle to see how long I could survive. Thanks to cover mechanics, it was actually a bit easier than I thought. The trouble was getting the reload and aim down. With no experience in the weaponry, it shakes and wobbles like crazy making for a highly inefficient gun. Geth should also be proud of how sturdy their tanks are. A Colossus's shields are thick and regenerate pretty quickly. As somebody that didn't have mastery over his sniper rifle, it was a long chore to whittle down this opponent.
As I sat there, spent from an intense war, I heard a little achievement unlocked sound go off in my head. Of course I didn't see one on the TV, but I know what I did. I was Commander Shepard, Colossus Killer. I was satisfied. All of that work and time just to add one more sniper kill on to my belt, and I'm not even sure it counted towards the achievement.
Alternatively, I tried to apply this idea with the sand worms and an assault rifle. Forgetting that they only appear in terrain with no cover, I died in 5 minutes. Apparently, the Mako has a habit of rolling that I didn't count on. It really was quite an interference to my using it as cover.
I would unfortunately have to wait for Mass Effect 2 to quell that worm killing itch.
The two examples above are creatures that I overcame with hard work and determination. I patted myself on the back and went forward. Everything else felt hollow in comparison, but it felt good to face a threat that actually moved around threatening me.
It brought me back to my true nemesis. Emerald Weapon.
Final Fantasy VII came out when I was in junior high. Sitting in my PS2 is a memory card with my original file. I've had other saves, but that one means the most to me. Throughout the years I would dive back in to that world and grind for no other reason than to destroy the green giant. I know there are simple ways to burn through him with mimic and reprisal materia, but I've always felt compelled to beat him in my own way. The way of the straight grind.
It really relies on a simple limitation system. I want a level 90 team to steam roll over this guy and I will grind it out until I can. Sadly, I still haven't reached that point. With 100+ hours invested in straight power grinding, I still can't do it. It is as if I want to believe that my idea of simply putting the time in to buff my party out will work on him. I know I can do better and I've got plenty of ideas on how to do it, but they aren't the ones I originally dreamed of when I was first burning through this.
I want to hit him so hard with my simple materia strategy, that it makes the years spent building my company up worth it.
I had really only started thinking about these guys recently. They are a world of trouble, and they have little to do with the end result. I kept going back and challenging enemies, that weren't overly challenging. Instead of taking the easier ways out, I wanted to recreate David and Goliath.
These were little goals that I made up to create an enemy far stronger than it truly is. The weight of their strength is truly based on me. I could always attack the beast in Nier when I gained more experience. Likewise, I could blow a Geth Colossus away in a fraction of the time with my Mako. However, it wouldn't feel nearly as satisfactory.
To take on a hoard of Krogan means nothing once you've stood toe to toe with a tank. Fighting the entirety of the Northern Crater is a breeze compared to one simple battle with an Emerald Weapon. Thus, in simply restricting myself I've enhanced the difficulties that I experienced.
It isn't always the game that pits me up against an impossible foe. Sometimes, I'm the one to do it.
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Valkyrie Profile had the Seraphic Gate bonus area after you beat the game. Random encounters in that area were more difficult than anything in the game, never mind the insane bosses in there. But on the plus side you got to see more of Lezard Valeth!
Yes. That's a good defense, right?
I've been on the fence about DA:O because I'd have to get the PS3/360 ultimate edition of a game that was made for the PC. Pair this with the fact that I'm not even sure if its going to be in my style. I need to get it eventually. As for VC, that game slows me down with its chapter style storytelling. It is a FANTASTIC game with some well thought out battles, but I tackle it so slowly compared to the isometric ones.
I really like the idea of the optional powerhouse. It's as if the developers want you to know that they balanced their product by showing you what they could really put in the game as a challenge.
There are 3 styles of these guys that I tried to get across in this post. The random little guy that sucks to fight against (Nier), the big bad ass that you know will mess you up (Emerald Weapon), and that thing you go way out of your way to make harder on yourself (Geth Tank). I think all of us have our own stories of triumph and adversity against these guys.
@Occams
Somebody should make a list as I'm tapped on this well right now. The only other thing I could think of was Tonberry King, but that was mostly just the fact that I had to kill 20 Tonberry's to reach him. So that really relies on dungeon diving dissatisfaction.
I'm really curious how you took down Ruby Weapon. I know there are 3 or 4 common tricks, but most people have a system that carried them through the battle. Course you were also happy drunk so that should be quite a tale.
Also, my PS1 memory card is a LE Lara Croft one so I laughed a little too hard with the concept of teabagging a memory card.
Yeah. My favorite boss was Goro. Reminded me of my dad.
Goro from Mortal Kombat? I loved Goro. He looked so cool with the way they designed the game so that they used real life people. Then came this 4 armed monstrosity that looked so damn cool!
@King Sigy
That's kinda why I threw in Mass Effect, as there isn't a whole lot of grinding you can do to make you take on a tank. I also don't think this is necessarily tied to RPGs, but the way they are structured makes one on one battles a lot easier to notice than say an FPS.
@Elsa
I love this medium for the fact that at any given point in a game, you can limit yourself however you imagine to raise the challenge levels. Man this is a fun hobby to have.
Thanks. It took me forever to think up a title and how to relate the post to it. Originally it started as "That F@#$ing Guy" and it slowly progressed into this. Still not truly happy, but I'm not going to sit on a post for a few days to think up a title.
@Celica
I can't either. I'm defaulting back to the Omega Weapons of the world and being underpowered and facing the tournament in Dragon Quest 4. That last one isn't really a good one, it mostly stems from the fact that I'm playing Dragon Quest 4 right now.
@Kaggen
Thanks. It really is a sadomasochistic dichotomy we gamers put ourselves through. We go out of our way to frustrate ourselves only to truly love what we have accomplished, even if it in itself is a shallow accomplishment.
Love the header image too. Dragon Quest 8 is such a time-sink. I've put 120+ hours into that bloody game and I'm still finding more things to do.
Good line. It's probably a conspiracy to get us to buy more controllers.
What I really, really like in gaming is when I take down an opponent, even they're a common type or a regular boss, well before I'm supposed beat them. That's one of the best feelings I've found in this glorious hobby. I KNOW that a few more levels will make it routine, but that's kind of what drives me.
It's also why I love open world titles. Beating the first boss in Borderlands before I'm given the mission to kill him, for example, or taking on Super Mutants or Death Claws in Fallout3/FalloutNV while underleveled; even if I die over and over, I often still keep trying, even though the rewards are nothing special.
Dragon Age: Origins also had the dragon at the top of the mountain. When he ate my face in our first encounter, I knew I had to beat him before I leveled past him, or the thrill would be gone.
There really is nothing like beating an opponent you aren't yet supposed to beat.
I often find myself doing that thing that roleplayers do - picking abilities and skill trees based on how I feel that character should act and the decisions they would make, rather than what is actually the optimal way to juke the system. It makes things harder, but that's just how I roll.
Omega Mark XII is another good example. And pretty much any secret boss (or even regular enemies in item worlds and whatnot) from just about any Nippon Ichi tactical RPG game. :)
I live for those extra credit boss battles too.
The giant worm and giant moth in Lost Planet stand out for me, they were hard as hell to beat and completely optional as well, but of you did decide to hunt them down you scored a sweet 50GS for each one.
while its not quite confirmation until I play the game, this does look like character art from the new MK
@Tomothy @32BitSin
I kept thinking about Sephiroth in the scheme of VII that I forgot about his inclusion in Kingdom Hearts.
@Pokota
That would explain why the controllers cost as much as a game nowadays.
@Zarwid
I'm going to have to find a copy of BK:O. I only own the original and it is one of the better games on the GameCube.
@Byronic
I need a PSP. It sounds like Peace Walker really did some pretty damn cool things for "just a handheld game."
@Beat Devil
Agreed!
@Salamgogo
Most people really only brought the differences between the eastern and western versions to light. Which usually means that there is hardly any real difference. Pick whichever controller feels better for action games and use that one. I've got it for the 360 and I have no issues with it.
@FullDamage
I just started playing Jade Empire and I'm doing exactly that with Lu. Changing his stats and his abilities to match his design to a T instead of putting it towards his strengths.
@Butternine
I really do need to go deeper in to FFXII. I just couldn't get past Vaan, but now that I've realized he is actually just a blank drone for you to watch everyone elses lives unfold, I think I can play further in to the story.
@Puppy Licks
I remember dying over and over in Lost Planet trying to get those. In fact, I don't think I've gotten past the stage with the Giant Worms because I refuse to beat it without defeating them.
I really want to start playing LP again. I think I'll go do that.
@BestyHammar
I think we can all agree that Warmech takes the cake. Not even Superman could defeat that bastard.
http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/1/18458-189249-supermanRPGjpg-noscale.jpg
Iron Giant in FF2
Pink Puffs and the Mystical Weapon guardians in FF4
Omega and Shinryu in FF5
Quite a few enemies in FF6
Metal Slime family in DW/DQ series
I thought of Gaxkang from DA:O as well - no room for manoeuvring or mistakes in that tiny little shack. All the revenants have potential to be hellishly difficult in fact, depending on when you face them - there's one in a random encounter in Denerim that can't be returned to at a later level, so has to be beaten there and then. I always seem to bump into him a couple of levels too low...
Oh, damn, does that bring back memories. Nuke and it's all over.
One of the more recent ones I enjoyed felling was Yiazmat in FFXII. That was a long battle well worth it, gotta say, I loved getting Mont-Blanc's approval :D
I know he's a main boss, but in terms of making yourself suffer and not backing down I was only a lvl 26 Mage when I beat the Harvester on Hard and that was a bitch. At one point I almost gave up and asked a buddy how he did it and he said he was lvl 35 when he rolled over him so I became even MORE determined to do it at my level.
Some of the "Monster Hunting" in Final Fantasy 12 was ridiculous. The White Flan, the white Chocobo and the Dragon with the Halo in the desert were all awful.
I beat Ruby weapon that way, and when I finally beat him, my game stayed in the fight, wouldnt give me the xp, the items, I had to run from the fight to get it to end. That made me happy on the win, but sad on the fight not ending.
Hardest optional boss I know of is Shin Megami Tensei Digital Devil Saga. You play through part 1 a second time using a new game plus, and when you get towards the end, you are able to take on the main guy from Nocturne. You go into the fight with any negate skills equipped, he kills you in one hit. You have to be able to be hit by status ailments. You have to learn how his two partners work spells cast, and so on. You have to survive a fight ending move by having people fall asleep and having a special skill equipped that makes you immune to damage while asleep.
There are tons and tons of strats on beating this guy, and none of them are sure fire wins. You will die many many times. You will think you have him, then you will make a simple mistake, that you think you are going to survive, until your best healer gets muted. Good times.
I am also a fan of Gilgamesh in final fantasy 12. I have always been a gilgamesh fan since his earliest appearances in the ff's.
I love optional bosses. That and optional dungeons are my favorite bonuses in rpg's.
Emerald Weapon reminds me of my brother desperately (and repetitively) fighting that thing in 30 minutes and how everybody I knew who owned the game were trading theories and battle plans. Of course, this was before the internet, so all we had to go on was vague ideas. I don't think anybody truly knew you had to get a certain item to breathe underwater or figure out exact sequence of attacks.
I've always liked a boss that got people talking outside school, but nowadays, you just go to GameFAQs or whatever and that kind of communal talk has turned into forum board gossip.
Tell you what's a great game for optional bosses though - Wild ARMs 3. Half of the games battles were made up of secret that had to be fought to level up sufficiently. Every area you explored had to be re-explored to find a new boss that had taken up home after your original onslaught. These things didn't mess around either. They were more fun, frustrating and interesting than any of the storyline bosses. There was even a dungeon dedictaed to these things!
I fucking love that game.
Persona 2
@stevil
I was just screwing around reexploring everywhere when I came across underwater. If I ever beat him with it, im going to restart the battle without it
@fenrir
I will say that some games have gotten easier, but people that go out of there way to complain need to sit back and figure out what they want out of the game. Then they need to change the way they play. Find the new Mario to be too easy? Play without powerups. Thee are things players do to make games easier like the konami code. There should be a counter concept to that as well.
As for players imposing their own challenges on themselves, I am not a huge fan of that. I like to explore, I like to lv up, I like to gear myself up. When I am done doing the normal stuff in a game like that, I want something to challenge my new found power. Keeping old gear on just to make later area's harder isn't the way I want to make a game harder. If more games would add optional area's, optional, super hard bosses, and then advertise that stuff, I would likely buy the game just on that hype alone.
I remember Xenogears giving me some really challenging battles where I was on the brink of losing for long periods of the battle and sitting on the edge of my couch trying to pull out the victory. Demon's Souls is good at pulling this off throughout the game as well, there are lots of fights where you are at a disadvantage and have to figure out a way to outsmart or wear down the enemy.
Nice write up btw.