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E3 2010 Recap
Changes: Fatherhood
Technical Difficulties: What A Difference Time Makes
A True Opponent Stands Before Me
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10 Games Captain America Would Play
Looking Out for the Little Guy

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The Dichotomy of a Dark Knight
Not Understanding Your Audience
A True Classic: Superman Returns



Articles I wrote that I liked:
That One Mook: Gafgarion
My first playthrough of Resident Evil 2
Love/Hate: Operation Darkness
EVO 2010
Recettear Preview
Teh Bias: Nippon Ichi Software, Dood!
More Than Just Noise: Haunted by Final Fantasy
2010: Year in review and some other musings
Obligatory Destructoid Community Rocks Post
Groundhog Day: Stuck in a Book
A story from the Wasteland
PowerUp 2011
E3 2011: MS, Sony, Ninty, and AWARDS
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Labor Day: Player 2
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2011: Year in Review and Top 10 XBL Indies



Comics in Games: Games in Comics
Comics in Games: The Original Batman
Comics in Games: Fantastic Four
Comics in Games: Fantastic Four Deleted Scenes
Comics in Games: Superman
Comics in Games: The Best of Marvel 1994

Comics in Crossover Games
- Spider-man and Captain America in Dr. Doom's Revenge!
- Spider-man the Video Game
- Spider-man and the X-men in Arcade's Revenge
- Marvel Super Heroes: War of the Gems
- Iron Man and X-O Manowar in Heavy Metal
- Marvel Brothel
- Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe
- Batman: The Brave and the Bold

Indie Reviews:
Give me an indie game, and I will review it in absolute fairness.

Review: Sequence
Review: Figment
Review: PerlMania


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EVO 2010 or How Competitive Gaming Started Making Sense
manasteel88 | 9:40 AM on 07.14.2010 19 comments




EVO 2010 just wrapped up this past weekend and I for one am amazed at the hours I spent watching the tournaments. I dunno, this felt like an E3 for me. Something I can blog vent about to just clear the mind of all the information that went into it. For years I questioned the Koreans and their love of Starcraft, but now I think I'm starting to get it. I'm not saying I would ever watch a Starcraft tournament, since I get bored sometimes while playing an RTS. Fighting games however are a different beast. Two talented competitors fighting against each other, mono e mono, just seems more interesting to watch.

Right now we are in a fighting resurgence. The rise of online gaming has given this once forgotten genre a reboot as people of all nations can fight each other head to head without the use of an arcade. Pair that with MMA rising to become a household term, and we are seeing a lot of attention being payed to man against man combat. I bring up MMA because its a combat sport that has many diverse fighting styles inside of it similar to Tekken and Street Fighter. Plus I'm a fan of MMA and gaming so I'm gonna bring it in here as a slightly recurring analogy.

This years EVO contained 6 tournaments. Melty Blood, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Tekken 6, Super Street Fighter 4, Tatsunoko vs Capcom and Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix were the games on focus. I never really noticed before EVO, but all 5 games play extremely different. Melty Blood is largely combo heavy with lots of parries. Marvel vs Capcom 2 being 3 member team based is more erratic, but the highest level play breaks the team structure down to a basic attacker/tank/support structure. Tekken 6 is largely about ensuring combos with the most effective users being able to read and counter with a long stream of combo. Super Street Fighter 4 is strategy structured with parries, counters and special moves used to chip away at the opponents life. Tatsunoko from what I saw tended to focus more on a strong main with a strong assist as many of the main stage characters had a hard time coming back once the main went down. Street Fighter 2 HD Remix is played like a fencing match with lots of baiting and blocking to land big strikes.

I've been out of the fighting game for a long time with the only one still somewhat active to me being Virtua Fighter 5, which sadly no one plays. This tournament however gripped me better than than even the World Cup this weekend. Largely I think this is because of the commentary that was presented. I'm going to bring up MMA again as I think one of the best features in the UFC is the quality of talent paired with great commentary from, of all people, Joe Rogan.

It was really the drop in commentary talent during the Tekken 6 pool play that showcased how good all of the Street Fighter commentary really was. Almost all of EVO has commentary from active participants in the tournaments. During the Tekken tournament they brought a commentator on that started trash talking a fighters character choice. In a tournament where players try their best with the fighters they are most comfortable with, this guy just went on and on about how crappy a character it was. Not with any real detail about why it was so crappy, just to troll. Thankfully the Tekken finals replaced those commentators with some pretty good ones so I guess that helped.

Compared to the hype I felt after watching the Super Street Fighter IV pools, this turned me completely off of the Tekken one. This was also followed by a fairly confusing Melty Blood final that made what was on screen more complicated than what was going on in the commentary. That drop in talent all changed when Marvel vs Capcom 2 showed up on stage. The commentary had a lot of insight into the competitors regional history and the strengths of the fighters. This continued all the way up to the Marvel vs Capcom 3 event when they decided to bring Adam Sessler in to commentate.



I respect the man as a gamer, I just don't think Adam Sessler is a guy who presents himself as the type of player I am. His commentary on Marvel vs Capcom 3 was actually decent. Mostly because he's had hands on time with it at E3, but mainly because its something that many were seeing for the very first time with competitors at such a high level. My problem was when he stayed on for the Finals of the Super Street Fighter 4 tournament. He definitely didn't seem like he's played a good deal of Super Street Fighter 4 and compared to the commentators from before he had no real knowledge of the match situation. He continuously would say a fighter was up two points to one when a fighter swept the first match and lost the first round of the second match. This is most likely because he was working, or maybe not even there, for the rest of the tournament. For the finals I'd have liked somebody who at least knew the basics of the rules and the system to be sitting next to Seth Killian.

When I brought up the UFC earlier I brought it in for its role in commentary. The UFC has two announcers much like Seth and Adam for its fights. A man by the name of Mike Goldberg plays the every man to Joe Rogan's expert commentary. The difference is that Mike's putting on an act and knows the sport fairly well. Adam Sessler doesn't. And after an entire weekend of varying talent in commentating, this was probably the most frustrating to listen to.

Man, oh man, what a breath of fresh air Seth Killian is to game commentating. I knew vaguely that he did some tournament stuff and also worked as the Capcom Community Manager, but his commentary was leagues above anything I had heard that weekend. He criticized poorly timed jumps, dropped combos and strategies with expert analysis and critiques. He was floating around the show all throughout the tournament and when somebody had to take a break Seth would jump in at random intervals and just brighten up the excellent fights that were on display. He wasn't the only one that did a good job. As I said above the Tekken 6 finals commentary was good. The Marvel vs Capcom 2 commentary was better, but those guys have a decade more in experience with the game. The revolving talent in the Super Street Fighter 4 and HD Remix was really equally impressive as well.



On to the fights. First off I really like the way the tournament is set up. The end results of each fight separate competitors into winner brackets and loser brackets. Winner moves on and the loser has to battle other losers to get a chance to advance. The big catch is that the Grand Final forces the loser bracket to double the wins of the winner's bracket champion. It's a system that punishes and rewards those that fall into the loser bracket. It really enforces the underdog mentality of the challengers instead of just making it single elimination.

Many of the older or smaller games didn't get streaming until they reached the Final 8. I didn't tune in until a little ways in to the pool play of Super Street Fighter 4 so I missed the Tatsunoko vs Capcom pool play, however I have to say coming away from all the fights that Tatsunoko was the least appealing to me as a gamer. Melty Blood was niche and I knew that, but I had hopes for Tatsunoko and while the level of competition was extremely high, I wasn't as impressed by the skills of the fighters. Especially the ease of decimation a professional can put on a giant character. Unfortunately this is due to range instead of just talent which seems to me like a balancing issue.

I didn't tune in to Melty Blood until the Grand Final, which was extremely one sided. It also played fairly boring as a copy cat match. Watching the Marvel vs Capcom 2 finals though taught me how I should be approaching my play. This was really big for me as I played the Dreamcast version a lot 10 years ago, but haven't played much of it until I got into it the XBLA version at the end of last year. From there I've learned how truly rusty I am with my biggest challenge being my timing in the switches and assists. From what I've seen the main focus is to have a strong main get boosted by a tank and have a strong aerial counter for the third assist. Hopefully from watching these videos I can gain a different perspective on my teams and how to move forward with them. Shame this is the last year for Marvel vs Capcom 2 at EVO.

I haven't touched Tekken since renting 4, so I'm actually very impressed with the design of the new game. I'm not really sure if I'll be picking up Tekken, but it fell off my radar at one point and is now back on it. The focus on combos is huge as always and utilizing the arenas to fit a players strength is something that I'd really forgotten. Using a wall can greatly increase the combo strength. I was impressed. Mostly because you have levels where you can attack sheep or pigs that are actually different from each other. The sheep level is open ended while the pig level is caged in. It actually makes for different strategies yet you are still kicking the crap out of livestock.



Street Fighter 2 HD Remix reminded me why I suck at Street Fighter. When Street Fighter 4 was announced many people were calling it a Street Fighter 2 clone. That's really only partially correct. Like I said above, I play Virtua Fighter. Street Fighter hasn't been my scene since Third Strike on the Dreamcast. But I definitely saw a difference between Street Fighter 2's combat system and 4's combat system. First off to be competitive in Street Fighter 2, you need to maximize damage dealt while maintaining defense through blocks. Street Fighter 4's matches take longer as combatants have higher life bars with a parry system that adds a higher chance of counter opportunities. This increase in counter play cautions players and really makes strategy a new thing. I can also understand the reason for sticking with all the older fighters in 4 from this. The newer system needs to penetrate not only hardcore fight fans, but the casual ones too. Putting in characters that everyone knows seems and building on them with a new counter system makes it a bit easier than 3 was for people. For fight fans this is probably very obvious, but to me this was a new revelation.

So for Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix I watched as the damage and movements are much more restricted forcing for a greater anticipation of opponents moves compared to the newest iteration. Unlike some of the others thoug, I'm not sure that I'll be a better Street Fighter 2 player from watching this tournament.



Every competition has a team, a fighter, or a surprise that people just tend to gravitate towards. Almost everyone rooted against Daigo, just because its just fun to see the underdog come through some times. I had a personal grudge against Daigo as every time he played my computer lagged up. My personal fighter of the tournament was Vangief. As was explained to me throughout the pools section of the Super Street Fighter 4 tournament, Zangief was nerfed in this version much like Sagat was. This obviously forced many fighters to change up their attack strategies. Unlike Sagat, Zangief has always been an odd duck in the Street Fighter universe. As a close range fighter in a game highlighted with projectiles, he's all about taking damage to dish out damage. It's a tough system that rarely pays out. With a nerfed Zangief, it makes players vastly increase the amount of risk the character has to take. Vangief pulled it out numerous times against top class fighters and made a very impressive showing as he made his way to top 8. Using a golden Mecha Zangief was also kinda badass.

The other highlight of the this tournament was Gamerbee. In the pools section there were a few Adon players that just couldn't get it together to advance to higher match play. Commentators went over how it was just because Adon isn't a top tier fighter. Then Gamerbee showed up and shot that down real fast. His timing was just impeccable against top tier characters like Rufus, and a Justin Wong controlled Rufus at that. He just seemed to have a great strategy of overwhelming characters in the corner that seemed to just disappear during the final day of competition. Still, he was completely unexpected and came out and put on a show.



The best fights of the entire show for me were the Justin Wong vs Vangief fight and the incredible Sabin vs Lamerboi match from Super Street Fighter 4. Justin Wong being the former EVO Street Fighter 4 champ had a very hard time against both Gamerbee and Vangief in his failed attempt at the top 8. His fight against Vangief was epic however as two non-projectile using fighters went back and forth with Rufus trying to chip away damage and Zangief trying hard to get in close. I mean just look at the footsies* by Zangief.



The Sabin vs Lamerboi fight was just intense. Sabin differentiated himself from the others right away with a very intense Dhalsim that kept pressure from very far away while punishing those who got in close. Then we had this nearly ten minute epic fight against Lamerboi's strong Guile. It really has to be watched to be appreciated as they both battled hard for dominance. This also wasn't Sabin's first fight against a Guile as he fought a war with Warahk earlier in the tournament.



I will have to say that Tekken 6 just isn't as flashy as Super Street Fighter 4. I believe its the devastatingly high combo count that just removes the appearance of skill. Not saying that there isn't skill in Tekken, I just think that as an audience member the fight doesn't appear as technical. The highlight of the Tekken 6 tournament was a Law fighter named Rip during the finals. His dominance and subsequent use of taunts in the matches preceding the Grand Final made him seem like a jackass, but he was winning in dominant fashion with moves that shouldn't have landed. That is until he made it to the Grand Final and fought Nin.

It looked like the same story in the first round, but then everything changed once Nin got comfortable. While not as back and forth interesting, it was a bit fun to see him get some comeuppance. I really don't feel too bad for saying that. He got one of those big bad ass fight sticks signed by Harada.



Speaking of Harada, him popping up and ambushing Ono on stage was amazing. I don't know what Ono is releasing this week, but I'm actually paying attention now.

I guess one of the last things I want to take note of is the addition of a Womens Bracket for Super Street Fighter 4. Most people on here have a general disdain for the gamer girl. Not because you need to have to have testicles to play tha video games, but because in a community where you are connected by your hobby, labeling yourself as something different brings unwanted attention.



In saying that, I'm really not sure if I'm cool with a Womens tournament. On the one hand, every competitor of that tournament had to compete in the main one. No exceptions. On the other hand, why should we as gamers set something up for people who couldn't advance out of the main tournament. I'm not saying a woman couldn't advance, I'm saying a woman didn't advance. It almost seems as if EVO predicted that a woman couldn't stand toe to toe with Daigo and decided to make them feel special for competing with the big boys. As a promotional piece however it probably did pretty well. Kayane is kinda cute and she did have a strong showing against Burn Your Bra. As a gamer however, I just can't accept the inclusion of this when they could have had any other fighting game that both a man and a woman could compete in showcased during that time slot. I do have to say though that apparently some of the women refused to participate in the tournament and I'm actually kinda disappointed in that. The girls should have had enough confidence to be able to say "I'm gonna win both tournaments and do away with this Womens bracket stuff". Also, Firefox keeps telling me that "womens" is not a word. I don't think it is either, but that's what was showing up on the Evo2k stream site so that's kinda what I have to call this.



Finally, something about Marvel vs Capcom 3. Still not sure if I like the style of it, Iron Man looks like his armor is made of leather and Morrigan looks to be wearing a jetpack, but it's looking a little better than what I saw originally. The Spider-man stage is just amazing in concept with the lift constantly rising til it reaches the top. Deadpool looks or plays very similar to Spidey which is odd to me, but he'll probably replace Cable with the guns. Chris Redfield looks like a douche. At least to play against. Bombs in the ground, bombs in the air and a strong shotgun make for a very convincing support character. Almost everything else looks exactly the same as Marvel vs Capcom 2 except for the fact that it took so long to knock people out. This is obviously a damage tweaking issue.

In closing, I think this event went over surprisingly well. There were some serious lag issues, hopefully due to unexpected interest in the fights, during the first day that was expertly fixed by splitting the streams. The final match between Daigo and Ricky Ortiz did however drop which was infuriatingly unfortunate. I really do hope this next year bolsters the fighting game scene as it was really nice to see a well planned show like this. Maybe if this was successful, they'll show the Japanese EVO tournament that is set for later this year.

Also, I need to buy a fightstick or more realistically the cheaper mad catz fightpad. I can't pull anything off with my 360 pad and after watching these guys for 3 days, I'm rather ashamed at how hard it is for me to get my sonic boom to work.

*Footsies is a term that references the foot work used to keep opponents in and out of reach.



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18 comments | showing # 1 to 18
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Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 13:23
Mike Moran
You. Check here. I been trying to get your attention for days: http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Wry+Guy/nostaljourney-episode-01-cast-announcement-178792.phtml
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 14:26
Elsa
not into fighter games... but awesome blog!!!
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 14:32
manasteel88
@wry
dude sent you a PM. Sorry, today is my birthday and I've been mad crazy busy since the beginning of the week trying to get stuff done for it.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 14:45
Mike Moran
That said I don't think I agree with some women only tournament either. I can understand them wanting to make it easier to break in because the female pool would be overwhelmingly small. Any female competing in the main tournament would probably never even see another woman. I hardly think segregation is the answer, though.

Just find ways to attract more women to the tournaments if that's what you want. This only makes the women look worse to the men when they see the skill gap. That Akayane girl was solid. She clearly knew what she was doing and had good execution and all that. Her opponent to me seemed nothing special in comparison. She didn't seem to use her characters all that well. If the grand finals only resulted in a good player versus a really average player that says something about the pool that was used. It sends the message that it's nothing worth paying attention to when you have crazy tense matches going on somewhere else.

Things would probably be better off if they just threw all the women into the maelstrom of the normal competition. That's how they'd up their game and be able to have a match on par with Daigo versus Ortiz, which I think would help out far more than a sub-par grand finals match.

The actual social experience could very well be awful, but being afraid of breaking in isn't gonna help anything. Find other ways to make the social experience more tolerable. Hell, set up an actual female community that can come to Evo on its own.
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 16:09
manasteel88
@Wry
Kayane has been called the best female street fighter player by Daigo. Unfortunately she didn't get anywhere in the pools section of the tournament. I'm not saying that is a bad thing as she's fairly competent in how to play, just disappointing that she never got a win in Pools. The problem as we can see in that fight is that she knows the fundamentals of how to use Chun-li, but she puts herself in some silly situations.

I'd disagree with her opponent not knowing how to use her characters. She had a firm grasp of how to use Rose in relation to Chun-li. It was when she decided to swap out with Ken that she was dominated. I figure she was probably nervous being on the finals stage with 7 cameras beamed on her and decided that she couldn't beat Kayane with a defense type character like Rose. She actually had a solid lead at one point that she gave up. She then chose Ken which is one of the three clones everyone feels comfortable using and tried to use it against her. She failed miserably. Kayane could also be really good against those types of characters as Daigo thinks highly of her so they might have had some training together, and Daigo is a fantastic Ryu player.

about the tournament though it wasn't even segregated. The women intermingled with the men. Then those women were given another stage to compete without the men. It's disappointing in the fact that this "Womens Invitational" was held before the final SSFIV match which would seem to me like EVO had no faith in the women performing. Whether they were right or wrong about that is another story.

@Elsa
what do you think of the Womens Invitational? I know this isn't your genre, but the same standards could really be applied to any competitive gaming experience.
Justice's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 16:13
Justice
Manasteel you rock!

Thanks for posting these videos, your impressions of each game and particular battles were very interesting to a fighting-game enthusiast such as myself.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 16:47
Mike Moran
@Mana: The way I saw it the whole thing was over after one round. You could tell that Ayakane had a proper read on the opponent after that. Having a lead at the beginning rarely ever means anything unless you keep it going.
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 17:01
manasteel88
@wry
She was definitely sloppier than Kayane, no doubt about that. I just played it up to the whimsy of being nervous. In match 1, round 1 there is about a half life bar lead by Burn Your Bra. To me that means either she's decent with Rose, or Kayane's nerves were in it. She did seem to get a much better rhythm as the matches progressed. Simply, since I'm just making a whimsical guess I'd say it sounds better if burn your bra got worse due to nerves as Kayane played through hers.

Of course as I've said above I don't play SSF4. More expert eyes are exactly that.
LK4O4's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 17:36
LK4O4
As more a spectator than someone trying to pick up tips, this year's EVO was pretty amazing just due to the diversity of characters that made their way up. Clockw0rk made it to 3rd place in Marvel 2 with a Strider/Doom combo, and Snake Eyes, won HD Remix with Zangief! And there was a Zangief and an Adon in the top 8 for SSF4!

And yeah, I'm still not quite feeling Marvel 3 either, but yeah. Watching EVO this year was a blast.
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 18:10
manasteel88
@LK404

Oh yeah I was trying to post all that, but I just couldn't get the time to do all the vids for HD Remix, MVC2 and the ones above. I tried to post that Strider combo, but Gametrailers was giving me crap this morning with uploads. So I posted the Chaos Nightmare vid in a link above. Same with HD Remix as well. I did at least get an Adon link and a photo of Gamerbee up at the top of this.

I wasn't even going into EVO looking for tips, but it left me with a better understanding of how the system works. Well actually that's what I'd like to say but I booted up MvC2 last night and magically got worse at it. Back to the drawing boards.

I did pick up Battle Fantasia post EVO on a whim and actually did fairly well with Cedric. He's a Guile clone and I've always sucked at using charge characters, but I tried emulating some of the ideas of Lamerboi and others and it payed off a bit.
Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 18:15
Jonathan Holmes
Amazing write up! Truly amazing.

The one thing that surprised me is that you didn't think much of TvC. I agree that some of the matches against the giants weren't that good, but from what I saw, that had more to do with the players than the game. Those guys just didn't use PTX very well.

That said, I was personally impressed with the amount of variety there was amongst the characters that made it to top level play. I freaked out when Viewtiful Joe was chosen, and someone actually won with him, and with combos I've never seen before.

Part of that comes from the fact that the game is still really new. That's the real reason why so many people did well with their "main", and failed with their tag character. Justin Wong for instance; when he chose Karas and Ryu, he did really well with Ryu, and awful with Karas. I don't think that's because Karas is a bad character. He's actually pretty amazing.

I think the problem is, the game is still pretty new, I bet Justin doesn't play it that much, and he's been playing games with Ryu in it forever.

Tatsunoko Vs Capcom was in many ways the newest game at the show. Other than Alex, Morrigan, Chun Li, Batsu, and Ryu, all the game's characters are new to fighting games.

I think it will be a while before we see someone who's truly mastered the game the way people have mastered MvC2 and SSF2T HD.
stretch's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 18:36
stretch
If EVO2K created a women's bracket then they should have not allowed them to join in the other pools. It's just simply not right for allowing women to have twice the chance of winning. I believe a women's bracket sounds fine just as long EVO2K applies some restriction for them as mentioned. IIRC, Starcraft and Counter-Strike has women divisions.

Can't wait for EVO2K Japan... and other upcoming tournaments.
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 19:14
manasteel88
@Holmes
I'm going to push Tatsunoko off on scheduling, the rest below is going to be critical but its mainly about presentation at EVO. It followed Marvel vs Capcom 2 with commentary that just didn't come off as well as the tournament before it. I really think that guy lost his voice announcing the match, that's how pumped he was. The commentary that followed was unsure at times and never at the depth of any of the other tournaments with exception to maybe Melty Blood. This can be attributed to Tatsunoko being a fairly new game which showcased a lack of depth and understanding, but when I saw that PTX push to win the first match only to lose embarrassingly just because Zero can jump and scoot back and forth in the top left corner kind of just killed me on the inside. If that's mostly because he can't play PTX then that's another issue, but he was a top 8 and that didn't really help my opinion.

Since I don't have any background with TvC I had to only compare it to MvC2. And when I saw Tekkaman Blade on there my inner otaku smiled as wide as can be. Then someone chose Tekkaman and was destroyed so I was left running back to the unbalanced opinion. Whether that is an actuality is just a different issue. This was really the first time I actively watched the game and I was left seeing many Top players put on disappointing displays while a Yatterman/Yatterman 2 combo cleaned house. The biggest was the Zero/Alex combo. Zero did 90% of the work and if Alex came out he was destroyed.

I especially remember Wong getting destroyed with Karas, which even for a new game was a surprise. I agree once there is some depth with the game over the next few years it might be a contender, but we've got Marvel vs Capcom 3 which I can only expect Wong and others moving on to. I'm really not trying to be critical of the actual game, but this was the show to prove how this game has hit the fighting community.

Iono. I just fear that this game won't permeate. Though I'm more than happy to see it at EVO Japan and see if the game will get a depth push.
Wrenchfarm's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 19:16
Wrenchfarm
Top level SF players really are amazing. The more you play fighting games and realize the depth of knowledge these players have the more you respect it. I've played SF for the better part of my life and only recently have I come to a point where I think I can really appreciate the games, and its all thanks to the internet; YouTube and online play opened my eyes. I used to think I was pretty good at fighting games since I could dominate all my friends, but after watching EVO matches and playing against some talented (and hillarious!) players on live, I know I have a long way to go!
Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/14/2010 23:44
Jonathan Holmes
@ Manasteel- I agree that those were all low points, but I still attribute that to the fact that just a few of the guys at EVO this year took TvC seriously. Justin Wong certainly didn't. He didn't know how to play Karas at all, yet he chose him. What does that say to you?

What that says to me is that he really hadn't played the game that much. You saw how powerful Yatterman 1 and 2, Zero, Tekkeman Blade, Polimar, Ken the Eagle, Batsu, and even Viewtiful Joe can be in the game, yet he didn't pick any of them. Though you didn't see much of it at EVO this year, Soki, Saki, Roll, Jun the Swan, and Mega Man Volnut can all be extremely powerful as well. If he didn't know how to use Karas, he could have picked any of them, but he didn't. My guess is, he really doesn't know how to play anyone else.

TvC came out in February, and all the MvC2 guys I spoke to, including Sanford Kelly and Yipes, all said that TvC was the next big thing. Then MvC3 was announced a few months later.

I'm not sure if Sanford Kelly even competed at TvC this year. My guess is that he's already dropped the game and is gearing up for something more familiar; MvC3.

My point is, the game is good, but right now, the players aren't. I hope that changes, because when played well, the game is really exciting to watch. I definitely think we saw some of that at EVO, but you're right, we didn't see as much consistent expert play as we could have.
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/15/2010 11:04
manasteel88
@Holmes

Yeah I can't remember who had the Chun-li/Jun the Swan combo, but they still had a hard push. KBeast's Yatterman/Batsu combo was powerful, but once again the strongest fighters I consistently saw were Yatterman and Zero.

I completely forgot that Tatsunoko came out late January. For some reason I thought it was an early December release which gave people holiday time to play it. I guess it's the funky way they released it here in the states that screwed me up, though I would argue that the competitive fighting game community has had it since it came out in Japan in December 08. I know they are two different games, but the play style should have remained the same. Maybe I just overestimate the import scene in America sometimes (or sadly the number of hacked wiis and pirated games). I really hope its a part of the upcoming EVO Japan in September as that would be a great way to showcase if this game really does have legs. Because if after nearly two years Japan doesn't have any high level competitors, I'll be a sad panda. Stylistically this game just doesn't appeal to me, but any game that has Tekkaman Blade in it needs to sell like gangbusters and I was hoping this tournament would prove that people were playing it as seriously as they were when MvC2 was released a decade ago. god it's been a decade. I'm old.

And, yeah I don't know what Wong was doing. He's a high level tournament fighter. He knows if he can't use Karas that he should stick to the basics. There are 4 characters on Capcom's side that he has a good deal of experience with. That's not including Megaman and Roll since I don't know what they changed with the play style. Even still, he was top 8.
Narishma's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/16/2010 12:58
Narishma
@Holmes: About Justin Wong choosing characters he didn't know to play. He did that because he was playing against his teammate Marn. They decided that the better one between them should qualify and that was Marn in this particular game, so Justin picked some random characters just to mess around. He wasn't playing seriously.

About the Womens tournament: I find it interesting that the people complaining about it are all males. All the women I've talked to about it, including some who participated in it, were mostly supportive of it and in general say it encourages them to train harder to do better next year at the main tournament.

Here's what Kayane has to say about it: http://shoryuken.com/f8/inevitably-female-tournament-mess-243495/index4.html#post9201169
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/17/2010 10:41
manasteel88
@Narishima

Its a shame I'm a guy in this context as I have to do have to defend myself as one. I've asked a couple of women on this point just in passing and while I'm sure my polling was biased, none of them really could explain why it was fine for a womens tournament to exist.

While I might seem overly harsh at times in choosing a side to the argument, I'm gonna state that I wasn't angered by the womens tournament. Ideally, it brought in more gamers into this tournament, and it also most likely adopted an idol to push the sport forward for people. Kayane is attractive and talented, so girls who felt overwhelmed by game competitions might find through her that they can do this. If that's what happens then I have no problem with it.

I only have a problem with the flip side of the argument. That a woman needs something like this to gain confidence in this sport. Maybe I was raised with really strong women in my life, but I've never had any grown woman say to me that she can't do something because its intimidating.

About Kayane specifically, let's start off with the fact that Kayane chose to participate and indeed won the Womens tournament. So her only real response that doesn't discredit her is that she supports it.

She also brought up some of the same points in that article as I did. It was this line here though that made it a bit controversial for me:

"We prefer people to say nothing about our sex when they play against us.
BUT, I think a women tournament is useful in only one way : if they participate in the mixed (sic) tournament. So yes the EVO system was a really good idea to me"

See in that one way she already segregates herself from the other gamers, not all of which were male as some women boycotted the womens tournament. None of those gamers were sitting back during pools play thinking that if I lose here I'll have a better chance in a smaller tournament later. I think as much as it promotes good game play by adding diversity to opposition, it also hinders it by breaking the win or go home mentality these tournaments should have.

Finally, I have to say I would have much preferred a Soul Calibur tournament to take this tournaments place as that was the game Kayane started with.

About Justin. If that was the reason then that's really shameful. Nobody should throw fights, I don't care what the sport or game is. If Marn was a better qualifier then he should have that match won through skill, not because his friend gave it to him.
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