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About
Facts:
I'm a dude in my twenties.
I work for MS on the Xbox, writing programs to test it.
I have a cat and two dogs.
I am programming a MUD from scratch and an SSL implementation, for fun in my spare time.


Conjecture:
Nutella > Peanut Butter
Hard candy > chocolates
Sunny > rainy
Ruby > Python
Ancient Greek > Latin
Showers in the morning > those at night
over > under (re: toilet paper)
Subs > dubs
HTML+CSS > BBCode

Frontpaged
Groundhog Day: Wave After Wave, This Is My Ocean
Obscurity: Nobody has ever heard of Lemmings

Currently playi--who am I kidding? I'm just playing Dark Souls
FTL
Halo 4, at least ostensibly
Dark Cloud 2


Favorites:
Dark Souls
La-Mulana
Geometry Wars 2
Burnout Paradise
Rayman (original)
Tetris Attack
Windwaker
Metroid Prime series
Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3
Descent 1-3
Bayonetta
English Country Tune


Other places you might find me:
Twitch.tv livestream (PC indie games and Dark Souls)
knutaf0 on YouTube
@_knutaf on Twitter
Lately I have been part of a podcast
I watch a fair bit of anime.
I sometimes listen to music.


Games on hold:
3D Dot Game Heroes
Uncharted 2
Disgaea 2
Mario Galaxy 2
Monster Tale, Heny Hatsworth (haven't used the DS in a while)
Dead Space
Player Profile
Xbox LIVE:knutaf
PSN ID:knutaf
Steam ID:knutaf
Follow me:
Twitter:@_knutaf
Reddit:knutaf
Youtube:knutaf0's Channel
Twitch.TV:knutaf's Channel
knutaf's sites
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Following (37)  


It's no news to any of my friends that I'm severely addicted to Dark Souls at this point. I never could have predicted the way I became utterly gripped by it. Eventually, this largely became a matter of being integrated into a community of players, primarily on twitch.tv, once I started live-streaming. I have friends there now, so I see myself stuck in that world for a while.

This post isn't about that, though. It's about the player-vs-player (PvP) system in Dark Souls, and some of the contention around it. I started off watching various streams a long time ago while waiting for co-op, which began my exposure to PvP--one of the major end-game activities. I was young and impressionable, as it were, so when I saw someone who was just racking up kills with no sign of slowing down, I was kind of in awe. "MAN," I said to myself, "this guy must be amazing!"

It wasn't until much later, when I'd watched much more, started playing PvP myself, and was exposed to many play styles that I started to view kill count as far too simplistic a measure.

A measure of what, you ask? Your effectiveness at killing your opponent is not necessarily an indication of your skill.

When I see statements like these, I think of games like Mario Party, which has a large element of luck involved in winning. I don't think of more competitive games like shooters or fighting games. I certainly don't think of Dark Souls. Well, I didn't used to.



What it comes down to is the fact that, despite the huge breadth of play-style choices in Dark Souls there is a straight path to success--where "success" means how often you get the kill. You strap on heavy armor, pump up your vitality, wear the crit damage ring, and backstab your way to glory. It's a recipe for that kind of success, and huge numbers of players do it. It's absolutely a failing in the game, both in its net code and its balance, but it exists, so people exploit it.

Before I go on much more, I need to make a critical distinction. I'm not condemning people for doing these things. They're legitimate game mechanics, not glitches (that's a whole 'nother story), and so there's nothing wrong, per se, with using them. What I am saying, to reiterate an earlier statement, is that doing certain things lowers the skill needed to earn a kill.

Let me get specific and dump a list of things you can do that lessen the skills you need to win in PvP. I'm not saying any one of these things guarantees wins, but they sure help, sometimes to an absurd degree.


- Spawn camping with two of your buddies
- Heck, engaging in any kind of 2v1 and 3v1 situation, especially if you endlessly heal your friends
- Abusing the atrocious netcode to backstab people (a.k.a. "lagstabbing", or "backstab fishing")
- See above about backstabs, but especially coupled with the Hornet Ring
- Wearing a full set of Giant's Armor while still maintaining a fast movement speed
- Cranking crazy amounts of vitality and using Mask of the Mother to further boost it
- Stacking huge amounts of poise so you can tank the heaviest weapons without flinching
- Healing yourself with Divine Blessings (more on this later)
- Using glitches to create powerful, low level characters for the purpose of invading inexperienced players


Let me be clear: none of those things necessarily marks you as a bad player or means that you're "playing the game wrong"; these are displays of low skill. If you want to be a better player as opposed to just a successful one, challenge yourself and step outside these tactics.



Now I'll be prescriptive for a moment, and offer a shorter list of displays of high skill. For the record, I only attempt a few of these, usually unsuccessfully. That's because, heh, I'm not a very skillful player. But I can dream, right?


- Parrying, especially on the first swing
- Using low or no poise - makes you prey for stunlocks
- Using fast-roll without the Dark Wood Grain Ring
- Forgoing stunlock opportunities
- Using less common weapons - halberds, straight swords, regular hammers, whips, fist weapons, and plenty more choices
- Not healing during fights, even if the opponent does
- Succeeding in 2v1 and 3v1 fights
- Manually aiming hits without lock-on
- Manually aiming projectiles (including pyromancies) without lock-on


There are so many choices in this game. That's part of the breadth that I like to talk about. And that's why it pains me a bit to see people narrowly focus in on the few seriously overpowered paths. On the flip side, I love seeing stuff like Poise-Free PvP, which puts a list of agreed-upon restrictions for duels, with the goal of actually making you better at the game.

So what do I do about it? Do I complain? Eh, a little; call it "venting" instead. But more importantly, I play the game like I want to see it played. I watched a Youtube video recently where the uploader said something like, "as usual, PvP boils down to who can backstab whom more." My comment was: that's probably true right now, but if more people challenge that assumption, maybe we can elevate the state of the game overall.



So I play without backstabs, for the most part. I do a lot of dodging and rolling, attempt parries, and have characters with moderate vitality. I eschew the tryhard gear and pick armor that is both functional and appeals to my eye (though nobody else's, it would seem. sheesh). I do all these things because I know that if everyone did, we'd have much more interesting fights in general. I know this, because most of the duels I've had with the great people from that aforementioned community are a far cry more fun than those I have with lagstabbing randoms.

I'll even go as far as to avoid backstabs in 2v1 and 3v1 encounters, where the odds are staggering. This is because I feel winning is secondary to showing these players that it's possible to win without techniques like that. It's making a statement, albeit a painful one, since I'm rarely successful.

This is the "style over substance" camp: we play for reasons other than winning, sometimes at the cost of our quantifiable, measured success. But things are way more interesting in here.


Sidebar on Divine Blessings

I need to take a minute to state my view on Divine Blessings. This is an item that heals you fully and removes all status effects within a fraction of a second. In a normal playthrough, I think there is a maximum of about 10 you can get a hold of. You can't really farm them from anything (forest hunters can, but the drop rate is pretty rare).

The problem is that the advent of modding tools has given rise to the availability of basically infinite divine blessings. An item that was intended to be extremely rare is now commonplace. This is fine for PvE and PvP in "peacetime", but in the middle of a PvP fight I find it problematic, for these specific reasons:


- They take effect significantly faster than any other type of healing (heal spells, humanity, and Estus), allowing you to both use one and escape a retaliatory attack with ease.
- They are not subject to the preventative influence of Lloyd's Talisman.
- They can be used by invading red phantoms, who are denied the second fastest healing option, Estus.




And so I consider using Divine Blessings in PvP as outright cheating. If you want to heal, that's fine, but use one of the other mechanisms. Of course, none of this applies if you're using your legitimately earned DBs, but the sad truth is that the other player will assume you got yours through glitches or mods.



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Legacy Comments (will be imported soon)


I really want to try PvP in Dark Souls more. I tried it for a bit awhile ago, since I was getting into a ton of matches as a part of the Darkmoon covenant, but then I killed Gwyndolin and now I can't seem to find another reliable way to find PvP matches. What's your preferred method? Any tips for finding matches?

As for your combat suggestions, I'll have to try some of those out. I've been trying to get better at parrying, but it's a slow process. I still kinda suck at it. I usually try not to heal during PvP anyway, because I ALWAYS get the shit beat out of me while I'm doing it, which makes it totally not worth it. I don't know if I'd be ready to forgo lock-on though, that's seems pretty scary to me. I'm also not quite sure what a stunlock is, to be honest...

Also, I think your character looks pretty cool! Mostly because that helmet is badass, and also because I love the Grass Crest Shield. I always try to pick armor/weapons that I think look cool rather than just picking it for the best stats. You can be a skilled player in the game even when you're wearing next to nothing, after all!
Bravo! This blog is near and dear to my heart as a fellow Dark Souls player and a fellow lover of unorthodox set-ups and low-tier characters.

Dark Souls has a ridiculous amount of customization in terms of stats, gear, weapons, and strategies you can use to create your own personal style, so it's always a little sad to see so many people run straight to the most overpowered and popular options available. I can understand that people want to win, but it's still a bummer to see so much potential entirely ignored.

However, it does make people who step outside the mould that much cooler! I often send props to players I meet with cool looking characters or fighting with weird weapons ("Pike and Golem axe? Cool!") and it's gratifying when others appreciate your own style. Playing on Deadcone's stream a little while ago, I was told my character looks like a villain from a He-Man cartoon. It was about the most perfect thing I could hear and made my night way more than a few more victories would have.

As always, your Dark Souls blogs are inspirational. I really respect your dedication to playing the game on your own terms despite the frustrations it can involve.
I moved on months ago so I really don't know what's going on in the "scene" now, but I was never really into PvP because seemingly everybody used the infinite souls exploit, which killed the whole point for me.
You're making me want to start a new character. I wish the hit box for backstab was smaller so that I didn't feel like a tool for trying it, because I love using it against PvE.
I never tried PVP; the game was terrifying enough on single player. I really need to get back into it, great blog!
You're right that this type of thing isn't a player issue... but it should be a developer issue. It's no different from shooter games where one specific gun or class is overpowered. In Killzone 2, most tournaments didn't allow for the use of the Assault class because it was often regarded as overpowered when the heavy armour was combined with the boost speed skill.

It seems that many of these PvP issues could be fixed or at least changed with a patch.
Ah, my Dark Souls crew. Knew I could count on you guys to read this. :P

bbain, my man, Darkmoons unfortunately have a lower invasion rate than other covenants, for some reason. I think it's probably just a bug on their end, but in any case, I can suggest a few things:
- become a darkwraith
- stay at or under SL120
- especially invade in PvP hotspots: darkroot forest (the NPC area), anor londo inside the castle, undead burg at the first bonfire
- or become a forest hunter. I get an invasion every 3 minutes or less

for parrying, there are three excellent videos to help get you started:
- EWGF's parry instructions. (actually, all his dark souls videos are basically required reading)
- jblackmel's parry tutorial, parts 1 and 2

Fighting without lock-on gives you some pretty incredible powers, namely changing the aiming of a weapon animation mid-swing. I didn't do it until relatively recently.

Stunlocking is when you hit your opponent, and they get staggered from their animation, giving you a chance to swing over and over. Basically, they're immobilized while you hit them repeatedly. There's debate about whether it's "cheap", of course, but it's harder to fight without leveraging it.


thanks, Wrench. I know we are like-minded about this stuff. :)

Caim, people still do that stuff, but, you know, it doesn't guarantee them winning at all. A lot of people use it simply to help them create PvP-ready characters quickly, and I'm kind of okay with that. It leads to more experimentation, which is always a good thing.

yeah, ryder, that's definitely part of the problem. But there's even a spectrum of backstabs, ranging from pretty cheap lagstabs to kind of skillfully executed rolling punishes.

manchild, it's a whole different world, almost. Scary for me at first, too. It took a long time before I was sort of comfortable with it. Thanks!

Yeah, Elsa, everyone is wondering what kinds of things Fromsoft might patch when they release the DLC. They've already done one patch, and it fixed some PvP balance issues, but not everything. I sure hope they take it upon themselves to make some very thoughtful balancing changes. In the absence of such a patch, though, some of us take it upon ourselves to layer this meta-game, to keep the game fresh and exciting.
So that's where you've been all my life.

I my ideal character would dual wield scimitars or a scimitar/shortsword/dagger combo of some sort because it was that much more satisfying pulling off parries and ripostes, but I wonder how practical that would be in PvP.

Not very, I wager.
Dual wield daggers, man. I've seen it in action. You can parry with the offhand dagger (very tough, but if you're good, it's doable). You riposte with your forehand dagger, which gets a hefty critical bonus. Very, very risky build, but if you're good, you get like a million style points on top of your totally sweet kills.

Unfortunately, both the scimitar and shortsword are pretty underpowered in this game. There are some other nice curved swords, though.
Like katanas? Please say katanas.
There are 4 different katanas in the game (iaito, uchigatana, washing pole, chaos blade), and they are pretty much the most popular weapon right now. They are very good weapons. Not to be trifled with.
Niiiiiice.

I remember hearing you mention the Iaito before. I'd really like to see how the draw-strike mechanism feels.
Dawg, sweet second pic! Must've taken a while to get it.

I've always been a style over substance guy. At least, that's what I like to tell myself. Actually, I just suck at PvP, and I have a great sense of style. Somebody actually went out of their way to send me a polite message on PSN telling me I suck the other day. I still won't do the giant's armor or Havel's Armor with one of the Pinwheel masks, though. Victories gained with any of those setups are like ashes in my mouth. I make it a point to not wear any pieces from those sets, no matter how much poise they earn me.

By the way, you're easily my favorite Dark Souls streamer on Twitch. There are other really cool guys there, but there is bad blood on some of the other channels. They take PvP and ettiquette real serious there sometimes.
Channeler's Helm + Red & White Shield OR GTFO!
Channeler's Helm + Red & White Shield OR GTFO!
beast, my capture software has the ability to take N screenshots, 1 every second. So I hit screenshot and did some attacks. Managed to snag that one at the end of a jump attack. :)

Like all segments of the internet, there is drama. I try to keep a lot of it out of my stream, at least. People have plenty of places they can go for it.

man, what an oversight. I should have taken one screenshot with falsenipple's favorite setup. I should have known this was coming!

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