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Community Discussion: Blog by horseflesh | Re: Obsidian Developer wants to stab used games in their heartDestructoid
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This is, I think, a very poor and narrow attitude. Used goods, particularly media, protect the consumer. But interestingly, I believe they also do service to the makers of media.

Essentially, people need to have recourse with regards to their ownership of things. Being able to resell, old, unused, and items that have come to be useless provides us with a recourse. The opportunity to flush ourselves of belongings, to not have any assignation of those items to ourselves, virtual or non-, affords us the opportunity to start anew. This may seem purely symbolic, and it is, but the idea that those symbols have no value is ridiculous. We assign value to those actions, and in most cases we share a similar sense of their value. It can be cathartic in an important way to get rid of old things. God forbid someone were to give up on gaming entirely. If someone for some reason needed to abandon gaming for a period, then it serves those who distribute games to make it possible for people to go dispense with those goods.

As well, recreational items serve a value to people other than the value of it's use. Which is the value it has at resale. People are often faced with difficult financial circumstances. This happens to many many people. The ability to turn previously used recreational items into capital is actually partially important. When disaster strikes, and one is on the verge of being impoverished, being able to part with non-essential property is critical. (Think about a “Fire sale”) Imagine bankruptcy, having once had a lucrative job or similarly balmy circumstances. And being left with a steam account full of games that you don't need. There are resources expended on these “use licenses” that given the way Steam works are permanently inaccessible. And I've seen some really full steam accounts.

I can't imagine the kind of sick irony of becoming homeless (I spent a period as a homeless person) and having a steam account worth hundreds of dollars tied up because of the terms of service of Steam. There is always an illicit sale of the thing, but having no recourse says a thing about Valve's reconnoiter of real-world human circumstances. Let's say I had I a steam account worth $300.00 while homeless, the pressing real-world needs of food, shelter, and clothing would have trumped a likely unenforced law about a virtual goods resale. Valve, would have “forced” me to violate an agreement that may allow them to seek damages. Believe me when I say the need to eat will trump those agreements in the real world, and should. It is an understanding of humanistic circumstances that would allow Valve to understand these potential circumstances, and the real importance of letting people out of these kinds of agreements.

No less, I think one should always have a route out of civil agreements. Like a divorce allows you legal freedom from a spouse, the symbolism of which is literally important to people, and is also legally important, being able to free yourself from non-criminal legal agreements seems to me to be critical to an American concept of liberty. (That sentence may strike some of you as laughable, but I do, in all seriousness mean that) I really don't think you should be legally bound to anything non-criminal, that you cannot extricate yourself from. My sense of law is limited, and I can imagine exceptions to this, but without compelling contrary commentary, I think we should always have routes out of civil agreements. (There are a bevy of caveats to this that I can think of, but in general)

And interestingly, I think allowing the resale of games actually serves those who make games. This runs contrary to conventional wisdom at the moment, but let me see if I can make this idea compelling to you. The ability to acquire used goods, virtual or non-, gives us an avenue toward enthusiasm that may not exist otherwise. To young people particularly, used goods have an incredible worth. Without the ability to buy used books and music while young, well, let's just say, my life would have been significantly more empty. Two of my greatest passions in life would go utterly unindulged, and my education would have suffered.

Making this stuff available to people while poorer makes for enthusiasts. People who's passions revolve around gaming may not happen if they have no access. Here, I think steam has a better reconnoiter of these kinds of circumstances than those who oppose the resale of physical media. If physical media were only available at new prices, they'd be prohibitively expensive to some at some times. Right now I can think of games I'd like to buy but cannot afford. Given the people of the U.S.' financial climate, someone who bought a game recently that I want but cannot afford makes for a great opportunity for us to do each other great turns.

Have you ever been to a used book store? Or music store that sold used items? These things, for me at least, growing up, were treasure troves as a child. And I think that the ability to acquire used games is no different for those with limited resources. The opportunity to acquire used games affords the poorer of us the opportunity to develop a relationship with whatever medium, that would otherwise be impossible. As a kid many of us don't have huge sums of money to play with. What we get from our allowance, or whatever sort of odd-job we can come up with can be all we get. In lean times the opportunities for industriousness, particularly for children, can be nil.

The core problem with Chris Avellone's statement, is that it does a disservice to the depth of human circumstances. It may not be something you're faced with right now, but it's not impossible either. I spent four years homeless, and grew up as a fairly comfortable middle class kid, and am genuinely intelligent. Circumstances of mankind are many and various, and terms-of-service that cause one to resort to illegality to dispense with (virtual) goods you effectively own is poor in it's thinking on human circumstances, people should have a way out.

Valve, I don't want to single you out. Your service is now like several to which these comments are equally applicable. I used it as an example of the most abstract of goods for which these arguments are applicable. I think they are identically applicable to physical media. I love steam, believe it or not, and I think it's largely a good service. I think it could be better, in some of the ways mentioned here, and others not pertinent to this topic, but I do think it is largely a good service.



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You should email this blog to Obsidian, EA, THQ and whatever company that is currently making it it's mission to eliminate or control games. They could use a perspective like yours to reflect upon and decide if their "fight" against used games is a just cause (no pun intended).

This blog was an amazing read and I look forward to seeing what you blog about next!
Thank you, I really appreciate that. :)
The thing is that new games generally do go down in price. It's not at all impossible to pick up new games at deeply discounted prices 6 months to a year after release.
Many used games show up on the shelves within a few days of release. The price is usually only $10 cheaper than a new game, so for the price of $10 many gamers are deciding to support Gamestop (or the retail outlet) rather than the developer.

People are greedy. They'll save themselves $10 and punish the developer simply because they want the game NOW. We seem to live in a world of immediacy. If people are patient they can pick up any game they might want to play from the $14.99 or $19.99 barrels at Walmart and still buy the game new.

I do think that used games are fine... often a game is no longer published and it's impossible to find a new copy a year later. This is where the market for used games should exist. I don't actually have a problem with devs using online passes or other deterrents to used games like passes for extra offline content... but I do think that at some point the pass has to expire and all content on the game should then be free. There something wrong with buying an online pass only to find out that the online game is long dead. There needs to be a middle ground where new game purchases are encouraged for the first six months, but after that people should be free to find either new copies in a bargain bin or track down a used copy.
People are neither greedy nor simply charitable. They are both in turns, and most often the determinant of where they fall on the scale of greed vs. charity is determined by their seat on the scale of wealth to poverty.

That is not to say that belief enters nowhere in peoples thinking, but it's become clear to me, in times of leisure, people are more generous, in times when straits are more dire, people are more greedy. (With strangers)

When I was homeless, during the latter part of Clinton's presidency, I did a broad survey of people's generosity as a homeless person. And similarly during the early parts of GWB's presidency. And the financial weather in people's lives was much more a determinant of greed vs. charity than anything else. The reason people seem greedy to you, is that pretty much everyone is poor.
... I should have been more clear, but I was actually referring to greed in terms of time. They only save themselves $10 by buying it used right after release... if people were more patient then they could save more money by simply waiting.

I do agree though that generosity does tend to seem to be reflective of the financial climate. I live in Canada though. We don't have a homeless issue... we have an addiction/mental health issue. Most people that live on the streets in Canada have options (there is a new apartment building down the street from me that offers housing to the homeless where it's 100% subsidized by government but it's only half full because it's away from the downtown core where the dealers are). In Canada we provide welfare, we provide housing, we provide food... many are quite vocal about the fact that they want to live on the streets, it's their right and their choice. My own perspective is that we need more mental health/addiction treatment... and fewer housing options that sit half empty. :(

Oh... and in terms of greed... games are not a necessity. They should come well after food, housing and even savings. Many people nowadays have a sense of entitlement that is simply wrong. So few take financial responsibility for their own lives. I recently saw a gal on facebook that I don't know well... but she was always buying games and consoles and clothes. She couldn't make her car payment and whined about losing her car... then losing her job because she couldn't get to work. To console herself, she went out and bought another game. That kind of stuff is pretty common nowadays... and it drives me nuts.

Meh... sorry for the rant, especially at Christmas which is a time of generosity...but I would rather that my charity go to people in developing countries where it truly makes a difference. The 99% in North America are the 1% in most of those countries. :(
This is not about games as a necessity. It is about being able to recoup some of your spending for a recreational item.

For example: Let's say you bought a pool table, it's set up in your basement, as well you have a flat screen tv, an old ps2 and a couch down there, and it's used for recreation. Now let's say you have a house fire. But your basement goes largely untouched. All of those recreational items have ceased to have value as recreational items, but they do have value in their resale, as they could bolster your financial situation some at a time when money may be critical.

And even in less dire circumstances should you be able to recoup some of your expenses. If someone stopped gaming, they should be able to dispense with their old gaming paraphernalia and games. Life is challenging enough for people financially. They bought it, they should own it such that they can dispense with their ownership such that they make back some of the proceeds they've spent. circumstances be dire or not.

The previous paragraph pretty much sums up the point I'm trying to make.
Actually, I think I get what you're trying to say, that poorer people shouldn't game or something like that, or that they should expect to have to do without some. Not get a game while it's a hot game or a topic of conversation or similar.

I think that's true. But I also think people are social, even gamers, and gaming is a big industry, a hobby for many. Doing without a copy of MW3 now if that's the community of people you relate to and feel comfortable with is probably doing you a disservice. Someone who's in those circumstances can probably muster a way to get a hold of a copy somehow, barring dire circumstance, and should if they can, since the multiplayer will be dead by this time next year.

What I'm saying is that it behooves game developers and publishers to help facilitate people without money's gaming. Allowing the resale allows people with fewer resources to be able to become avid about it as a hobby, which means they'll buy games and game related paraphernalia Because it will foster an interest in gaming.

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