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About Me
Greetings; welcome, enjoy the... the... umm, well... I don't have much, so here, just take my wallet.

Thirty-three (or so) games I love, in (hopefully) alphabetical order.

Alien Hominid
Ape Escape
Bangai-O
Bioshock
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Contra III: The Alien Wars
Cybernator
Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening
Disney's Aladdin
F.E.A.R.
Final Fantasy IX
Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
Gradius III
Gunstar Heroes
Halo: Combat Evolved
Jak II
Katamari Damacy
(The) Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
(The) Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
Megaman Zero 4
Metal Slug Anthology
Noitu Love 2 - Devolution
Odin Sphere
Paper Mario
Prince of Persia (2008)
Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando
Secret of Mana
Shadow of the Colossus
Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV: Turtles in Time
The Lost Vikings
Twisted Metal: Black
Viewtiful Joe
Wario Land II
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Clayton S Chan
A firearm case study; E3 2010 edition.
grafkhun | 2:09 PM on 06.18.2010 6 comments


Hey Destructoid, I have an intro blog and I am not new. I just very rarely blog here. Why? There's so many good writers here that cover such a span of content and topics that even if I do start writing something, the next day someone already has a blog up saying pretty much what I wanted to say. So I looked at myself and asked; what topic do you know a lot about? I answered with many things, but none were game related. However, one thing stuck out, and that is firearms. I'm no gun expert, never even fired one in real life, but I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the history and functionality of firearms. I present to you a case study about a weapon I saw in a video at E3.

This week I learned that a semi-automatic non-bullpup shotgun with a top-loaded magazine with the ammunition laid crosswise that uses a recoil powered action/bolt, is possible. This video, at the two minute mark.

Ah video-games; making firearms so ridiculous and impractical look awesome and useable. Yes, I am aware that a shotgun like that can be functional in real life… or can it?



Alright, anything is possible. So, this shotgun is as well. However, I will show you that if it existed, not many would use it as it would be very impractical.

Firstly, the stock would have to be weighted perfectly. Having the magazine and the firing mechanism in the frontend naturally makes the frontend heavy. So the stock, again, would need to be very well balanced. Not to mention, having the magazine/ammunition in the front effects the weight and recoil as ammo is depleted. Lastly, the whole weapon definitely would weigh at least 14 pounds, all due to the frontend magazine/firing mechanism.

Ejecting the cases/spent shells isn’t shown in the video, or maybe I missed it somehow. I’m willing to bet that like the P90, which also has a top-loaded magazine, the cases are ejected below the gun. Why? This shotgun is ambidextrous. Therefore the casings need to go down; also it has a standard pistol grip. The cases would have to come out right in front of the trigger, due to the frontend magazine and this shotgun not being a bullpup firearm. It is possible to have the shells ejected towards the back end, but I don’t think such a mechanism is used.

From the video a trigger guard is visible, so the user doesn’t have to worry about ejected casings hitting their hand. But the external rail bolt needs room to move forwards and backwards (while only the top part moves, placing a handhold right underneath it is unwise I think), and the users offhand needs a space to hold the bottom of the gun (using a shotgun with one hand is not advised); to sum up, there is very little room for the casings to be ejected, in fact, I don’t think there is any room.

The far frontend part serves as a rail bolt. You can see it slide back with each shot and there is no manual pump-action, lever-action, or bolt-action. Recoil powered bolts are the most common type of semi-automatic shotgun, but to have the rail in the front end? Where the magazine already is? Plus, if this shotgun were using slugs or some ammunition that needed more accuracy, and the user had a sight on the top rail (from what I could see, there were no side rails), then with each pull of the trigger their sight would violently move; as the sight is on the rail, which is part of the external bolt system. Having a sight, be it telescopic or electronic, if it moves like it would have to move on this shotgun, it’d be disorientating. Even the iron sights aren’t useful, as both the back and front parts are on the forwards rail.

Another negative about this external recoil powered bolt is that it is a top-break system needed for reloading. Using the P90 as another comparison, the P90 does not have a top-break system, at all. The magazines can be removed and reloaded without moving any other system. It’s not the fact that it is a top-break system, that’s fine and all, but the fact that it also serves as the action mechanism.


I took this screenshot; and it's the only picture I could find on the internet that was ok quality and gave a decent view of the shotgun.

If this shotgun were exactly as it is, but it was pump-action instead, a lot of problems could be averted. Pump-action shotguns with box magazines exist, and I’m sure a top-loaded magazine version could work as well. The frontend magazine problems still remain though, as I don’t think a bullpup pump-action shotgun can work… unless the pump were on the side of the gun or above the barrel.

In addition, the magazine capacity is 12 cartridges. Granted I don't what gauge (the connection between gauge and overall dimensions isn't exact, but it's close enough) and it's hard to judge just by eye-balling it. So let's say it uses the gold standard, 12 gauge shells. A 12 gauge shell has a diameter of about .73 inches and a length of 3 inches. The shells lay crosswise, perpendicular to the barrel, in the magazine; so 12 multiplied by .73 is roughly 8.7 inches. The spiral feed ramp at the end of the magazine has to be at least the length of the shell, so that's roughly 3 inches. 8.7 inches plus 3 inches is 11.7 inches; let's round that up to 12 as we must take into account the actual magazine case and whatnot.

With this information, this shotgun would have magazines that are a foot long (I apologize for the lack of metric system, I’m American, I can’t help it) and weigh at least one pound. 12 gauge shotguns are called 12 gauge because the lead balls that can fit in the diameter of the barrel weigh 1/12 of a pound. Standard 12 gauge shells weigh about .067 pounds; so 12 multiplied by .067 is about .8 pounds. Finally, we add the weight of the magazine itself, so let's say the weight of a loaded magazine is 1 pound. So, we are left with a foot long magazine that weighs one pound, cumbersome anyone?



A P90 magazine; about 11 inches long and weighs roughly half a pound. They are already considered a very clumsy magazine. Also, airsoft part, haha.

As you can see, this weapon in real life would be a hassle. Also, the short barrel length, due to the frontend magazine, lowers its effective range. The moving rail bolt makes aiming with sights from the shoulder difficult, so from the hip is the only option. Shotguns are for close-quarters, and this gun is probably about 30 inches long, not as compact as other close-quarter firearms, and the only part of the weapon I would use for melee strikes is the stock butt-end, for fear of damaging the moving rail sytem.

This isn't a blog about FEAR, so save your comments on the series. Instead, let's talk about that... that shotgun.

I'm kind of thinking about making this a series. I'll take a firearm from a game and analyse it. If it's realistic, I'll see how realistic it really is. If it's unrealistic, I'll try to explain how it can work in real life. If it's like this gun, sort of based on reality, I'll do what I did here, try to explain the flaws and how it can be changed to work. Thanks for reading, and I hope you enjoyed it.



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5 comments | showing # 1 to 5
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Enkido's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/18/2010 20:55
Enkido
That was great. I'm a bit of a gun enthusiast myself. My dad owns a machine shop with CNC and one thing I have always wanted to do is make firearm parts. As for the blog, I have to agree, a shotgun like that would not only be cumbersome, heavy, and have a severely limited effective range, it would also be very difficult and expensive to make. Also, the problem you mentioned of ejecting the casing is definitely something that would need to be addressed.
Handy's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/18/2010 21:49
Handy
While I detest guns and violence in real life, I will admit that yeah guns are cool, especially in games. MGS3 and 4 are basically gun porn, at any point in the game you pause it and inspect any gun you’ve picked up so far, and it gives you a rotatable model, all kinds of stats and even the history of the weapon, and in 4 that’s upwards of 60 different types.
knutaf's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/19/2010 12:36
knutaf
Make it a series. It will be cool.

I don't quite follow two things: firstly, the concept of bullpup kind of eludes me.

Secondly, what is the mechanism for aligning the next shell along the barrel? In the screenshot and as you described, the shells are laid cross-wise. Obviously, they can't be fired in that position; something needs to rotate the shell forward so that the mouth is pointing into the barrel. Is that a normal sort of mechanism used in real guns? I've never fired one like that, at least.
grafkhun's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/19/2010 16:31
grafkhun
@knutaf - bullpup is a term used to describe guns that have the magazine and firing mechanisms behind the trigger. Any firearm where the magazine and firing mechanisms are in front of the trigger, is not a bullpup. Non-bullpup isn't really a definition, it's either bullpup or it's not, but the non makes it easier to use. Good question about the shells. At the end of the magazine where the shells enter the chamber there is a spiral feed ramp. This rotates the shells 90 degrees so they are aligned with the chamber when they enter.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 06/19/2010 20:23
Elsa
Nooooo! You're one of those guys in the forums that talks about how unrealistic the weapon is ... and you talk words like bullet drop and spread, recoil, magazine size/shape and capacity, etc, etc.
... and then the devs change the weapon in the game and add bullet spread, drop and all that stuff - and suddenly I hate my ATAC 2000 Assault Rifle. :(

I know nothing at all about guns. I just try them all and use the one I like in a game. Some games are actually quite intimidating because of all the weapons to try out.

Hnmm... then again, maybe I can learn something if you develop this into a series!
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