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SPOILER ALERT -- This post includes minor Persona 4 spoilers.]
After reading Colette's news post about
EA's panel on homophobia in games, I got inspired to write about my own opinion on the subject.
What exactly is it that makes some people so up tight about homosexuality? Is it the human species' natural fear of anything different, or is it something that is learned when growing up? Could it just be the fact that men and women being together has always been the "right thing to do", a mix of all the above or something completely different?
Sure, today is a
lot better than it used to be for the gay community, at least you won't get killed for kissing another guy in public anymore, but we still have quite ways to go before homosexuals have equal rights, and the first step is to address these types of things in the media. Take videogames for example, if developers would just put the the option to play as a gay character in a game, that would help a lot. This would work great especially for sandbox games like
GTA, or RPGs like
Mass Effect or the
Final Fantasy series.
Actually, this is sort of already happening with Rockstar's announcement of
GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony DLC, supposedly being released this fall. Pretty much all we know so far is that you play as a guy named Luis Lopez, and you work for the "legendary nightclub impresario Tony Prince (aka "Gay Tony")". We haven't even seen a trailer yet, so for all we know the game could totally push forward acceptance of homosexuality in games, or be totally distasteful and push it back a couple miles.
During research, I stumbled across
an interview with Chris Vizzini, the creator of
gaymer.org, and he said the main reason he started up the site was because of frustration while playing on Xbox Live. With constantly hearing homophobic slurs like 'faggot' and stuff like that, it can get pretty frustrating, and it can feel really lonely. He thought there
must be other gamers out there like him, so he started up his site, and it now has thousands of visitors a month.
Take RPGs for example, there usually is a love story right there in the open, but almost all of the time it is between a man and a woman. It just makes sense to have a straight relationship in a game, because most gamers are, well, straight. With the multi-millilion dollar budgets that games have these days, financially it's not really the best idea to put a homosexual relationship as a main story line in a game, potentially alienating a large portion of the game's audience.
Some devs do it right, for example in
Persona 4, it really surprised me when it came time to rescue the big masculine bully Kanji Tatsumi from the tv world. For anyone that doesn't know, when a character get kidnapped into the tv world, the character's true emotions come through and it turned out that Kanji is actually like, flamingly gay.
But it turns out that you never actually find out Kanji's actual sexuality, once you rescue him and take him back to the real world, he just turns back into violent old Kanji. Some people say that he actually
is a closet homosexual, others say it was just his way of rebelling against himself or something, but it's all open for interpreation.(For more information, Dtoid community member Superflossy wrote an article on Kanji over at
Gamesutra.)
I'm not gonna lie, it can be pretty saddening being a gamer in today's times. There are quite a few hardcore gay gamers out there, and we love the medium just as much as the next person, and we just want videogame storytelling to live up to it's full potential.
I'm pretty sure that the majority of the Destructoid Community is not gay, but I would really like to hear your opinions on this subject. Would you be interested in playing a game with a gay relationship involved, or would that gross you out?
Also, I voted Democrat. This automatically means that I love gays, unlike Ron Paul and the rest of those filthy Libertarians.
Nice read! It wouldn't gross me out at all if more homosexual relationships were built up in games. In my opinion, you should be able to choose in an RPG type game like Fable if you want to do that based on your own personal preferences. It's only fair!
Mainly because of the name, like I say.
However, yes, I'd love to see more homosexual relationships in games. Hey guys, they DO happen! Let's have some mature games that are actually mature, in that they touch on complex subjects, and have truly interesting narrative, not because you could fill a bathtub with the amount of blood from one gunshot.
I think you can, but not as extensively as you can be heterosexual. Like, I don't think there's a way for him to be a stay at home husband, or adopt kids with him (I think they're just one night stand types of deals). Where as heterosexuality is a main questline so to speak, homosexuality is a sidequest.
I think...haha. I don't remember it being as big a deal as heterosexuality, which is what I'm getting at: equal representation. I didn't spend too much time in that game, I kind of hit it and quit it.
The funny thing is now you've got me thinking about it, I can't recall an unequivocally romantic heterosexual relationship portrayed well in any of the games I've played either. By which I mean mushy stuff, real huggin' and a-kissin', you know. Heartfelt declarations of love, that kind of thing.
The most romantic relationship I can recall is that of Link and Marin in Link's Awakening, but it's not as though that game was Link's Sexual Awakening.
We need more love in games! (Or I need a better memory, one of the two. Somebody set me right.)
NVGR but, after the Academy Awards I drove down to see my grandparents and they asked me what I thought of what Sean Penn said in his acceptance speech. I said I agreed with him (Those who stand firm in their hated, oppose equal rights for all, and anyone who voted for the ban on gay marriage in California will be shamed by their grandchildren), which opened a can of worms.
It basically came down to them saying that it's just unnatural, marriage should be between a man and a woman because they can produce children. I countered:
A. the world is over populated and people should adopt more anyway. If those kids can get loving homes with which to grow up in a healthy environment they should be afforded that opportunity.
B. Homosexuality occurs in nature and can be seen through many species of animals.
C. both of their third marriages and they didn't have any children...
"We're old and if we didn't get married our friends would have shunned and fallen away from us for living in sin."
I kind of just shook my head and realised I wasn't going to get anywhere. The doublestandard was in place.
I think it's a matter of approaching homosexuality tastefully, and creating REAL homosexual characters i.e. people that are not defined solely by their sexuality.
From what i've seen, homosexuality has primarily been approached as:
a) Comedy Act, i.e. almost every gay character in japanese games that acts like drag queens or Tom of Finland (e.g. Cho Aniki). To be fair this is probably a Japanese culture thing.
b) titilation as in the case of the Fear Effect advertising campaign, or Samus' implied homosexuality (this is up to debate whether this is purely for titilation but given that Samus is clearly a Nintendo sex symbol, i'd rest my bets on it being fanboy fantasy fuel).
I want homosexual representation in games but i don't want it to act as flamebait to the homophobes (i had a similar feeling after seeing Bruno).
As a side note about GTA4, i was surprised to see people praise of it's inclusion of homosexual characters and how they approached it. If i remember correctly, the first clearly stated gay character i met in the game seemed normal enough and i was required for the mission to shot him in the face with a shotgun.
So i'm torn between really wanting homosexual in games, or just saying "do it right or don't do it at all".
However, I understand we have to start somewhere, and it all helps towards it becoming a matter of fact character feature, rather than ZOMG he loves bears! (i.e. Kitty N's ending in Bust a Groove.. hehe although i did secretly think that was awesome :P)
Forgot to add thanks, for starting a discussion that (so far) hasn't degenerated into "gays shouldn't get special treatment, Haloz rules!" etc..
I always want to comment thoughtfully on posts of this nature when they go to the front page, but i just can't see it worth my time with all the hate bullshit that goes on over a 100 comment thread (even at the good ship Destructoid)
There isn't any of these idiots here, the Destructoid community is awesome. There's a majority of understanding people here, which is how you can solve the problem.
I've always believed that inclusion in entertainment media goes a long way for society as a whole accepting anything.
Its something that I really enjoy about Valkyria Chronicles. Without making a huge fuss about it, they've included about half a dozen squaddies that you can choose to add to your group that are gay, whether openly or quietly. Japanese games seem to trend toward exaggerated stereotypes, but VC hass a nice background story for everyone in your squad. As a result, every one just feels that much more like a relatable character, no matter how different they are from the player on the surface.
More than that, though, Yosuke makes several pretty homophobic remarks during the game, especially during the camping trip - but you never get the chance to call him out on it, it's like it's just fine for him to be saying these things.
In fact, at one point he says something to Kanji about 'we're both gonna be scared' with him sleeping in the same tent, and I wanted to say 'hey, don't speak for me!' but it never gives you the chance.
Also, for a game that lets you decide what friendships and relationships you want to work on, it seems a shame that there are no same-sex ones available... it wouldn't have been too hard to do.
As Phazonyoshi said though... I think in regards to online play and the name calling, it really is similar to the "girl gamer" issue. Most of the name-calling is not personal... I don't know why "faggot" or "bitch" is an insult among some guys... or why saying something is "so gay" seems to be a negative. It's a cultural thing that seems to spring from shows like South Park, Family Guy, etc., and it's an oddity in a culture that has a fairly widespread acceptance of people being gay.
Anyway, I do think more positive portrayals of gay characters in video games can help lead to more tolerance in general.
Great post Garison!
Truth be told, I seldom care about relationships in games because they're usually superficial or circumstantial and occupied by stock, interchangeable characters. Despite the fact that I'd be less able to personally identify with a gay relationship, I'm no more or less "interested" in it because of the sexual orientation of the character I'm playing.
To answer your question -- so long as the gameplay was up to snuff there's no reason why playing a gay MC would make me avoid a game.
The sad part is, even if a dev stepped up to the plate and did it justice in a subtle way (by which I mean a natural part of the storyline/gameplay, and not a controversy to generate sales), the majority of gaming press and internet in general would label it as the "gay game".
I think it'll happen, but society still has a long way to go. Again, great post.
Insert a paragraph here, but people have already said what I wanted to. :]
But that aside, I wouldn't mind seeing a relationship like that work, provided it's done tastefully.
@Elsa
I've always taken most of those things as ironic and I think plenty of other dtoiders do as well. I know there are people out there that use them seriously and sometimes someone will actually manage to be solidly offensive, but in general they just end up looking like idiots. They are fun and easy to mock, and in doing so we can give our friends a hard time. I think I'd feel pretty bad if I said something that actually offended them.
What De Bloo said.
Now if some studio decided to appeal to a gay market with something potentially ignorant like Fashion Design Hero 6 featuring a gay protagonist, I'd skip it. Just because that sounds like a really boring game.
...
Or Gordon Freeman, for that matter.
As a feminist and as a lesbian, I totally know where you are coming from. Not only are games usually super straight, but generally have lead male characters. I would love to see more strong female role models in the games we play, and maybe some who like girls too :) Yea I'm also from Canada like sumone about mentioned, we do have gay marriage and stuff so we are a bit more ahead in some areas.
I feel like with the current swing of homebrewed games on XBL and whatnot, more developers will be able to make the games they want, and hopefully that means some gay games will be made in that evolution.
For example: Mario doesn't have to save Peach because he loves her, he could just be saving her because it's the right thing to do. Of course, the Mario series has always been pretty shallow in the story department, so maybe that wouldn't work for more complicated story based games like RPGs that rely heavily on the relationships between their characters.
I think a good example of it should be to make them obviously gay but not to make a huge spotlight about it by making the character simple as they also look like normal people.
Thereare rumors that Ike from the Fire Emblem games is sublimely gay by being very rejectful to many women. If that is true, I am very happy with Intelligent Systems for making such a sneak.
Unfortunately mediums will find gay characters and do an alarmist overreaction like the racial tags in Resident Evil 4 and recently Left4Dead 2 (if that's not a bullshit reaction to generate views), also there is Fox News which is againt alien rape and Grand Theft Auto.
Again, maybe the industry is not that ready for it yet, developers jsut have to be smart and brave enough to include those characters and plots without slipping it big.
I have expressed before that I am so straight I think I could have dangerous relationships; but gay people, as strange they could look for anyone including me, still could be pretty awesome guys.
PS: I suspected you were gay by joining some puzzle pieces but now it's kinda official hehe
I'm sure the Yaoi crowd would be ecstatic :P
Well said.
Also, FOX news Suxorz!!!
@ Garison25
I know headsets bite over PSN & XBL.
It is truly pathetic the shenanigans that go on.
That pretty much sums up my stance on everything gay.
I definitely wouldn't mind playing as a gay person in a game, as long as the game is good. Same thing I say about all games. :)