You place some children in a sandbox and they see infinite possibilities. maybe its a bakery where they'll whip up some serious pies and cakes. maybe they'll build a series of castles, with intricate moats and underground passageways. not me. i can do two things. build piles, and dig holes.
what does this have to do with gaming?
everything! i was watching some shit, who knows it was after work and i was under the influence. and i saw someone ranting about how gamers want more freedom, they want huge open worlds where they can generate content. i want that too, or at least i think i do, but then i realize, i don't have an inch of creativity in my body. you can give me everything, i'm gonna dig holes, and make piles.
i've completed the career in skate 3 times now. i've seen the entire world, i know where the spots i like to session are, and they offer me a free skate mode, where i can tune AI activity and do as i please. what do i choose to do? start the career again and do the same rigid goals. skate the same spots. i need to be told what to do. i need a challenge, so i get that feeling of reward when i complete it. i'm not content with just exploring. i think its part of who i am as a gamer. i never spent time in the arcades exploring a maze in pacman. i didn't play contra to take in the scenery or appreciate shooting guns. i played to beat the challenge set out before me. if there's no challenge, nothing to compete with, the game won't hold my attention.
could you play a game with no clearly defined goals? would it hold your attention for more than a few minutes?
I agree with you mostly. I have friends that will start up Saint's Row and literally do nothing but enter codes so they can shoot pedestrians and cop cars for hours. I like big huge open environments, but they're best implemented when there are goals within the game that will take you through all of them in depth.
But that's just what the game offers. Everything. When you first play it, it throws you into the world and you decide what makes it fun. Whether it be driving around, shooting people, walking down the street, or like you said with Skate, replaying the same storyline over and over again. In my opinion, that's the best part about Sandbox games, you decide what makes you keep coming back, and there's an infinite amount of things you can do in the world and it's up to you to decide which you think is the most fun.
But there´s a problem in your statement shipero. In second life there is nothing to do.
What gamers have as sandbox games usually have a goal, or something to do.
See how many tricks you can pull on a street bench. Or drive and jump as high as you can, or maby kill as many whores as you can with a bat. You stablish the goals and rewards, just like playing in real life.
I do enjoy sandbox games a lot.
teta - shipero hit it on the head. you just gave me some goals. all of which sounded like fun to me.
i'm not saying sandbox games are bad, i loves me some gta. i'm just sayin, when the story is over, i am not entertained by just getting my stars up and running around. i need to progress. even if it was a mini-game like blow up 10 helicopters, i have a goal, and that would keep me entertained.
When I'm playing a sandbox game for R&R, I like to ignore the goals and just do what I want to.
More and more, trying to complete all the goals / missions feels like work. Or worse, it can feel like an artificial motivation to play inserted by developers who weren't really sure how to make the game "fun".
I should add that doing what I want to do usually involves trying to break the game in some way, or getting somewhere I wasn't supposed to be able to reach. I spent a lot of time in GTA III airborne in a car.
I should probably add that that I love me some cheats in sandbox games. Of course, I'd do everything I want to do without cheats i.e. storyline, side missions, etc. But when it comes to the point where I feel like I've done everything, I turn on some cheats and have a crapload of fun. I played the hell out of San Andreas and now I'm going through the whole thing again with cheats. It's hella fun.
I think the games that have no clearly defined goals. For me, gaming comes from the community and not the games. I don't really like RPGs, Platformers, or anything else you do alone. I like replay value with others. It's why I like FPSs, RTSs, and fighting games. It's repetitive gameplay, but I'm always playing with someone new and learning new things. In general, just having fun. With the community comes the competitive edge and leagues. Basically the challenge comes from communities. I just don't have any fun playing games solo.
I just started playing Oblivion last week (yeah, I'm a little late to the party), and I was so overwhelmed at first. There is the main quest to get you going at first, but with billions of things to do pretty much right off the bat, I didn't know where to start.
I guess I had become conditioned to expect the straightforward objectives and goals found in most games, but Oblivion has shown me a new way to play. It's definitely been a refreshing experience so far.
Thinking a little bit more in this topic, it would be nice to stablish goals for multiplayer options in sanbox games.
I´ve always played imaginary goals in GTA with my friends.
Like, who can get further without crashing, or things like that.
It would be nice to have like premade options like:
kill, jump, faster, further, etc.
Then set points, or lenght, or kills idk.
And st a phrase for completed.
allowing users to generate games in a sandbox environment is one of the next 'huge things' (think achievements, like rock your gaming world). being able to create mini-missions and share them with friends/community can add so much replay to a title, i don't even wanna think about it. i just want it. now!
Sandbox games tend to bore me in short order unless there's some kind of stimulus to keep me going. Being able to create your own goals in a GTA-like game that you could upload to share with people would be awesome.
Not sure if they're going to have stuff like that in it, but I'm definitely looking forward to Little Big Planet :D
I used to do these Cannonball-style speed runs across San Andreas where I'd see how far I could get in one vehicle at high speed. I'd have to start at one predefined spot and get around on public roads as fast as possible.
Or more fun was trying to drive planes on public roads. Ride cars off the side of the mountain in SA.
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about me
quick and dirty:
consoles:
xbox360 (2)
xbox (2)
wii
ps2
psx
dreamcast (3)
n64
snes
nes
atari 2600
vectrex
handhelds:
gameboy (1st gen)
gba (1st gen)
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other:
moon patrol upright converted for MAME
custom mame console.
i play games.
i write code.
i enjoy building cabinets, consoles, controllers.
Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press living the dream since March 16, 2006
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apparently you can have too much fun in a sandbox.
crap i fail
i don't click hyperlinks in this site anymore. unless they're for free candy
Get Oblivion... I have spent over 150 hours in it... It gives much room for creativity.
I still need to finish off Oblivion :(
I agree with you mostly. I have friends that will start up Saint's Row and literally do nothing but enter codes so they can shoot pedestrians and cop cars for hours. I like big huge open environments, but they're best implemented when there are goals within the game that will take you through all of them in depth.
But that's just what the game offers. Everything. When you first play it, it throws you into the world and you decide what makes it fun. Whether it be driving around, shooting people, walking down the street, or like you said with Skate, replaying the same storyline over and over again. In my opinion, that's the best part about Sandbox games, you decide what makes you keep coming back, and there's an infinite amount of things you can do in the world and it's up to you to decide which you think is the most fun.
clockwork - good point. different strokes for different folks.
I'd like to think that I'd have fun with a goal-less game but the 20 minutes I spent with Second Life before uninstalling proves otherwise.
But there´s a problem in your statement shipero. In second life there is nothing to do.
What gamers have as sandbox games usually have a goal, or something to do.
See how many tricks you can pull on a street bench. Or drive and jump as high as you can, or maby kill as many whores as you can with a bat. You stablish the goals and rewards, just like playing in real life.
I do enjoy sandbox games a lot.
teta - shipero hit it on the head. you just gave me some goals. all of which sounded like fun to me.
i'm not saying sandbox games are bad, i loves me some gta. i'm just sayin, when the story is over, i am not entertained by just getting my stars up and running around. i need to progress. even if it was a mini-game like blow up 10 helicopters, i have a goal, and that would keep me entertained.
When I'm playing a sandbox game for R&R, I like to ignore the goals and just do what I want to.
More and more, trying to complete all the goals / missions feels like work. Or worse, it can feel like an artificial motivation to play inserted by developers who weren't really sure how to make the game "fun".
I should add that doing what I want to do usually involves trying to break the game in some way, or getting somewhere I wasn't supposed to be able to reach. I spent a lot of time in GTA III airborne in a car.
max - you work in QA by any chance?
No, but I play with that mindset. Then again, if I worked in QA, playing for fun would probably mean not straying from the mission path at all.
I should probably add that that I love me some cheats in sandbox games. Of course, I'd do everything I want to do without cheats i.e. storyline, side missions, etc. But when it comes to the point where I feel like I've done everything, I turn on some cheats and have a crapload of fun. I played the hell out of San Andreas and now I'm going through the whole thing again with cheats. It's hella fun.
I think the games that have no clearly defined goals. For me, gaming comes from the community and not the games. I don't really like RPGs, Platformers, or anything else you do alone. I like replay value with others. It's why I like FPSs, RTSs, and fighting games. It's repetitive gameplay, but I'm always playing with someone new and learning new things. In general, just having fun. With the community comes the competitive edge and leagues. Basically the challenge comes from communities. I just don't have any fun playing games solo.
Correction; *I think I like the games that have no clearly defined goals*.
I just started playing Oblivion last week (yeah, I'm a little late to the party), and I was so overwhelmed at first. There is the main quest to get you going at first, but with billions of things to do pretty much right off the bat, I didn't know where to start.
I guess I had become conditioned to expect the straightforward objectives and goals found in most games, but Oblivion has shown me a new way to play. It's definitely been a refreshing experience so far.
Thinking a little bit more in this topic, it would be nice to stablish goals for multiplayer options in sanbox games.
I´ve always played imaginary goals in GTA with my friends.
Like, who can get further without crashing, or things like that.
It would be nice to have like premade options like:
kill, jump, faster, further, etc.
Then set points, or lenght, or kills idk.
And st a phrase for completed.
bingo teta!
allowing users to generate games in a sandbox environment is one of the next 'huge things' (think achievements, like rock your gaming world). being able to create mini-missions and share them with friends/community can add so much replay to a title, i don't even wanna think about it. i just want it. now!
Sandbox games tend to bore me in short order unless there's some kind of stimulus to keep me going. Being able to create your own goals in a GTA-like game that you could upload to share with people would be awesome.
Not sure if they're going to have stuff like that in it, but I'm definitely looking forward to Little Big Planet :D
I used to do these Cannonball-style speed runs across San Andreas where I'd see how far I could get in one vehicle at high speed. I'd have to start at one predefined spot and get around on public roads as fast as possible.
Or more fun was trying to drive planes on public roads. Ride cars off the side of the mountain in SA.
Landing the Lear jet on the dirt airstrip.
Getting a speed boat into the quarry.
Storming Area 52 and making it out alive...
Man I miss that game.