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I think I'm enjoying Xenoblade Chronicle for the reasons that the setting is a real shake-up, the "limitations" of the Wii allow for level design that could never be feasable (or affordable) to realize in HD, the characters (while not each is compelling) are generally more mature than other JRPG characters stuck within the same archetypes and the gameplay keeps evolving with new dynamics along the way.
Atlus certainly shares an understanding of these traits. Their settings are modern, but theres always some unique twist to them. Even if the Persona series has more familar trappings and young people in a coming-of-age story its the fact that they feel like real friends to your character and come to truly mature in the story amidst avolving gameplay that makes those games so engrossing.
But then you have wank like Hyperdimensional Neptunia or something like the Ateleir series which is cranked out on a near-annual basis. It just feels like those developers don't want to put in the 3-5 years of development anymore and make something that really sticks with players. Then you have the Tales series which doesn't even consider the west when making their games, focusing only on the interests of the Japanese audience.
Irconically, much of what I've described is also Bioware's problems. Trapped in getting an RPG out every year, their games gets smaller and smaller and they raelly only care about pandering to the existing fanbase until EA tells them to repeat the larger success of something like Skyrim.
I think SE is starting to come around, but its going to be a while longer until they do, but their support of prioritizing of games like Deus Ex has helped me keep the faith in them as a business. It seems they really want to learn and give their western partners the space they need and don't want to get in their way.
Atlus certainly shares an understanding of these traits. Their settings are modern, but theres always some unique twist to them. Even if the Persona series has more familar trappings and young people in a coming-of-age story its the fact that they feel like real friends to your character and come to truly mature in the story amidst avolving gameplay that makes those games so engrossing.
But then you have wank like Hyperdimensional Neptunia or something like the Ateleir series which is cranked out on a near-annual basis. It just feels like those developers don't want to put in the 3-5 years of development anymore and make something that really sticks with players. Then you have the Tales series which doesn't even consider the west when making their games, focusing only on the interests of the Japanese audience.
Irconically, much of what I've described is also Bioware's problems. Trapped in getting an RPG out every year, their games gets smaller and smaller and they raelly only care about pandering to the existing fanbase until EA tells them to repeat the larger success of something like Skyrim.
I think SE is starting to come around, but its going to be a while longer until they do, but their support of prioritizing of games like Deus Ex has helped me keep the faith in them as a business. It seems they really want to learn and give their western partners the space they need and don't want to get in their way.
Good read. I know everyone hates it, but I'm really enjoying Hyperdimension Neptunia. As for a critically academy western RPG that plays like a JRPG (and that I've never played but always hear good things about: Anachronox. I like to tend to like RPG's that aren't turned based, but I'll really want to play them every once in a while when a game is supposedly very good, or I just want to play it, gosh dawg it (case in point, Neptunia). However, all I can think of are turn-based RPGs, so maybe I like them more than I think I do. So yeah. JRPG's! Wooh!
I, too, sort of have a love for JRPGs, although I really haven't played very many. I haven't heard of any recent ones that sounded interesting to me. The last few JRPGs that really got me excited were the Persona series.
I think my main gripe is that the majority of JRPGs tend to stick to the typical fantasy setting: swords, knights, mages, dragons, etc. There are a few of those types of games that I really like (Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest), but I like it even more when they step outside of the genre's stereotypes and try new settings, like they did with Earthbound and Persona.
I'm sure there are probably plenty of JRPGs like this that I haven't tried yet, so I'm looking for suggestions as well. I don't really have too much to recommend to you, as I honestly probably haven't played any that you haven't already tried. Did you check out Breath of Death VII and Cthulhu Saves the World yet? I actually never finished either of them, because I found the dungeons to be too frustrating, but they are generally well-received I think. I enjoyed the humor a lot, and I thought an RPG consisting of undead characters was an interesting idea.
I think my main gripe is that the majority of JRPGs tend to stick to the typical fantasy setting: swords, knights, mages, dragons, etc. There are a few of those types of games that I really like (Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest), but I like it even more when they step outside of the genre's stereotypes and try new settings, like they did with Earthbound and Persona.
I'm sure there are probably plenty of JRPGs like this that I haven't tried yet, so I'm looking for suggestions as well. I don't really have too much to recommend to you, as I honestly probably haven't played any that you haven't already tried. Did you check out Breath of Death VII and Cthulhu Saves the World yet? I actually never finished either of them, because I found the dungeons to be too frustrating, but they are generally well-received I think. I enjoyed the humor a lot, and I thought an RPG consisting of undead characters was an interesting idea.
I have been loving Radiant Historia.
I definitely +1 TSP on his assessment of Atlus. They have understood what it means to capture the modern player. Each and every one of their games has such unique and engaging charm.
While Catherine is not considered a *jrpg*, it is one of the BEST games I have played in years. It tackles an issue much larger and real to life than I have ever seen. Many games ride along this line of dealing with light issues or very typical concerns. I feel this is what you are getting at in the narrative in JRPGs. Teen angst is good and all, but I no longer a teen. I am a soon to be married man and want to see life and its aspects explored in deep ways. Catherine did this for me.
The whole on-going debate about JRPGs is a good one to be having, but I think in virtue of having it means there is still a lot of love for the core of what it means to be a *JRPG*. I feel many have only been recently turned off while transitioning into the new HD era.
I definitely +1 TSP on his assessment of Atlus. They have understood what it means to capture the modern player. Each and every one of their games has such unique and engaging charm.
While Catherine is not considered a *jrpg*, it is one of the BEST games I have played in years. It tackles an issue much larger and real to life than I have ever seen. Many games ride along this line of dealing with light issues or very typical concerns. I feel this is what you are getting at in the narrative in JRPGs. Teen angst is good and all, but I no longer a teen. I am a soon to be married man and want to see life and its aspects explored in deep ways. Catherine did this for me.
The whole on-going debate about JRPGs is a good one to be having, but I think in virtue of having it means there is still a lot of love for the core of what it means to be a *JRPG*. I feel many have only been recently turned off while transitioning into the new HD era.
I love JRPGs nearly as much as I used to 15 years ago, and their only crime is that they simply do not appeal to a whole lot of western gamers, while the bro shooters westerners love don't appeal to a whole lot of Japanese gamers, yet nobody says shooters are dead. The irony is that the very same criticism directed towards JRPGs also applies to shooters, except shooters are very popular in the west and JRPGs are not. That's really all there is to it.
The range of matters Catherine addresses and how it addresses them is rather stunning. As with any game the gameplay settings are wild and inventive, but everything outside of it feels fairly relevant.
Vincent Brooks and his friends are at a point in their lives where you just don't get it till you've lived to that point. The way even a smaller cast member like Erica is handled is pretty amazing considering the subject matter and how many developers and localization teams dare to go there?
Vincent Brooks and his friends are at a point in their lives where you just don't get it till you've lived to that point. The way even a smaller cast member like Erica is handled is pretty amazing considering the subject matter and how many developers and localization teams dare to go there?
I'm with Silent, you should really check out Xenoblade if you have the chance. The characters are still kind of standard, I guess, but the game does seem to have a bit more adult themes than just "boy fights evil, grows up in the process".
It has a combat system that is quite a bit different from the norm which has quite some depth to it when you learn all of its ins and outs.
But most of all though, what I like in my games is exploration. JRPGs in particular tend to provide this in ample amount, since you'll be visiting literally the entire world during the game. They're not always as detailed as I would like, but still.
Obviously, you know where I'm going with this: Xenoblade is on of the best games for exploration I have ever seen. It actively rewards you for going out of your way, the maps are huge and there is plenty to see.
So yeah, it's one of my favorite ones ever made, as evidenced by the fact that I just can't seem to stop mentioning it.
Based on what you wrote here, I'd say you should give it a chance as well. I'm not saying you are going to enjoy it as much as I have, but you might find a game that is able to hold your interest, as it does do quite some things differently from other RPGs.
It has a combat system that is quite a bit different from the norm which has quite some depth to it when you learn all of its ins and outs.
But most of all though, what I like in my games is exploration. JRPGs in particular tend to provide this in ample amount, since you'll be visiting literally the entire world during the game. They're not always as detailed as I would like, but still.
Obviously, you know where I'm going with this: Xenoblade is on of the best games for exploration I have ever seen. It actively rewards you for going out of your way, the maps are huge and there is plenty to see.
So yeah, it's one of my favorite ones ever made, as evidenced by the fact that I just can't seem to stop mentioning it.
Based on what you wrote here, I'd say you should give it a chance as well. I'm not saying you are going to enjoy it as much as I have, but you might find a game that is able to hold your interest, as it does do quite some things differently from other RPGs.
Yay, suggestions! And I'm definitely feeling the <3 for Catherine - it's amazing to me that, on the one hand, the story by itself isn't much deeper than your average shojo manga or manwha - yet it's so sincerely told and so outside-the-norm of typical game stories, that combined with the solid voice acting and art, it really does shine.
I also am impressed by the way they took advantage of the new HD platforms by leveraging their strengths - awesome 2D interface art, presentation, and design, and interesting moral questions buttressed by the online connectivity that showed you how your answers measured up with other peoples'. Smart, and cool - they really are an amazing company.
@TSP, @JoeTheProYaKnow - Atlus has always been one of my favorite publishers, and R&D1 is specifically responsible for some of my favorite gaming experiences ever. There's really no one else trying to tell the kinds of stories they tell - and if there is, definitely point me at them!
@ninjapresident - Wow, thanks for letting me know about Anachronox - I've seen the name before, but I had long forgotten about it - it looks really interesting!
@bbain - I do need to check out Cthulu; heard nothing but good things. I don't mind tough dungeons as long as they're basically fair - and as long as the game has other virtues besides difficulty. I do have a soft spot for the undead.
@CaimDark - Agreed - though I think with respect to Japan, even if it's all just a matter of preference, the fact that their player base is smaller means that lack of success in the West hits them pretty hard when it comes to paying their bills, which is a real problem. :/
I also am impressed by the way they took advantage of the new HD platforms by leveraging their strengths - awesome 2D interface art, presentation, and design, and interesting moral questions buttressed by the online connectivity that showed you how your answers measured up with other peoples'. Smart, and cool - they really are an amazing company.
@TSP, @JoeTheProYaKnow - Atlus has always been one of my favorite publishers, and R&D1 is specifically responsible for some of my favorite gaming experiences ever. There's really no one else trying to tell the kinds of stories they tell - and if there is, definitely point me at them!
@ninjapresident - Wow, thanks for letting me know about Anachronox - I've seen the name before, but I had long forgotten about it - it looks really interesting!
@bbain - I do need to check out Cthulu; heard nothing but good things. I don't mind tough dungeons as long as they're basically fair - and as long as the game has other virtues besides difficulty. I do have a soft spot for the undead.
@CaimDark - Agreed - though I think with respect to Japan, even if it's all just a matter of preference, the fact that their player base is smaller means that lack of success in the West hits them pretty hard when it comes to paying their bills, which is a real problem. :/
@fulldamage
Absolutely, that is a big problem both for developers and fans like us who are left out in the cold. We get so few JRPGs these days that we might have to learn Japanese if we want to keep playing them!
I was only countering the popular but utterly ridiculous argument that "nobody" likes JRPGs, hence they are "crap" or "dead".
Absolutely, that is a big problem both for developers and fans like us who are left out in the cold. We get so few JRPGs these days that we might have to learn Japanese if we want to keep playing them!
I was only countering the popular but utterly ridiculous argument that "nobody" likes JRPGs, hence they are "crap" or "dead".
I also recommend Xenoblade Chronicles, which is easily the best game I've played this generation. Ironically, the part of it that I HATE is the sidequest system -- It's just three or four missions repeated about a hundred times, without ANY variety.
Exploring just for the sake of seeing the world, though, is awesome. The graphical textures are God-awful, but taking it all in as a whole, it's beautiful.
Also, I loved Catherine's story, but the gameplay got old in a hurry.
Exploring just for the sake of seeing the world, though, is awesome. The graphical textures are God-awful, but taking it all in as a whole, it's beautiful.
Also, I loved Catherine's story, but the gameplay got old in a hurry.
Another recommendation for Xenoblade -- I wish a handful of other JRPGs had put forth the effort it made to make the game fun.
Simple Western conventions like "save anywhere" (and not just at arbitrary save points), and fast travel make it that much better.
Simple Western conventions like "save anywhere" (and not just at arbitrary save points), and fast travel make it that much better.
I think that part of my problem is that I've always been an adult in the gaming world and I just can't get into playing an angst driven child. I've only ever completed two JRPG's and interestingly both were by Climax Entertainment - Time Stalkers and Kingdom of Paradise. Both games were pretty simple, and both had more adult characters than is generally found in other JRPG's. Neither had extensive cut scenes which also tend to annoy me in games. I've tried lots of other JRPG's but if I'm playing as a child or if there is anything sickeningly "sweet" in the game, I just can't get into it (like that Mog thing in the demo for FF 13-2 - I wanted to kill it so bad!)
It's nice to see that JRPG's are evolving with games like Catherine... though personally I still tend to stick with western games. It'll be interesting to see how Japanese gaming in general deals with the aging gamer population and whether they can retain these audiences.
It's nice to see that JRPG's are evolving with games like Catherine... though personally I still tend to stick with western games. It'll be interesting to see how Japanese gaming in general deals with the aging gamer population and whether they can retain these audiences.
@Elsa
There is one article on 1UP that has a surprising (to me at least) bit of information on the age of the gaming population in Japan, and may explain why JRPG heroes tend to be teenagers. Here's a quote:
"Japanese culture has developed a reputation for being more accepting of traditionally geeky pursuits than the west. Because so many amazing games came from Japan in the past, many imagine Japan to be a place where being a "gamer" is accepted and considered "normal." In reality it's anything but. The west is far more accepting of adults playing games. While people will often play games on their cell phones, and though the DS made major in-roads into the casual market, particularly with women, admitting to playing games still carries a stronger social stigma in Japan than in Europe or North America. As such, many adults willingly give up games, keeping the market much younger overall than elsewhere.
There is one article on 1UP that has a surprising (to me at least) bit of information on the age of the gaming population in Japan, and may explain why JRPG heroes tend to be teenagers. Here's a quote:
"Japanese culture has developed a reputation for being more accepting of traditionally geeky pursuits than the west. Because so many amazing games came from Japan in the past, many imagine Japan to be a place where being a "gamer" is accepted and considered "normal." In reality it's anything but. The west is far more accepting of adults playing games. While people will often play games on their cell phones, and though the DS made major in-roads into the casual market, particularly with women, admitting to playing games still carries a stronger social stigma in Japan than in Europe or North America. As such, many adults willingly give up games, keeping the market much younger overall than elsewhere.
@ShadeOfLight - I have to admit, I do miss the days when it was a foregone conclusion that your explorable world was going to expand from a small village to a city to a continent to the entire planet. A lot of modern designers seem to have jumped to these menu-driven systems where you just pick the area you want to go to, and load yourself there.
This might have been because not all explorable games were equal in quality - trekking across a continent full of random encounters just isn't fun for many people. And it might be why I started playing more WRPG's - one of my favorite things to do in Fallout 3 or Skyrim was to just set my sights on some interesting landmark on the horizon and just start walking there to see what it was!
@CaimDark - To add to the point you raised with Elsa - wasn't there an interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi, around the time the Last Story was announced, where the interviewer was like, "Are you interested in making games with more mature themes?" and he was basically like, "LOL no, why?" I think there's a bit of an obssession in the Western gaming press with games growing up or getting "serious," and while I admit I do look for more thoughtful fare - I think some part of this is coming from gaming enthusiasts seeking public validation for their hobby - and I don't get the same vibe from Japan!
Their attitude seems to be more like, "Sure, JRPGs are for kids. That's why they're about kids. Because being a kid is awesome. What of it?"
@Elsa - I concur. I've been playing JRPGs since I was in short pants (okay that's the best idiom I'll get to use all week, I'm retiring now), so the basic mechanics and patterns are just a familiar habit to me now, and I get a lot out of discovering what little nuances the designers have tweaked the formula with. But if I was just now coming to the genre, a lot of that "cutesy" factor would just kill it completely for me.
I am really excited about Ni No Kuni, though, because Studio Ghibli has produced some amazing films, and I am confident they can do cute without it being "cutesy," - not to mention when they decide to do "creepy," it usually looks fantastic.
@pedrovay2003 - Okay, enough people are raving about Chronicles that I may have to check it out. I remember playing Xenogears back in the day and, while I enjoyed it well enough, it never really "grabbed" me in a serious way - I think I was having trouble finding a character I really identified or sympathized with, which kind of put me off the series at the time.
@Chris Carter - Save anywhere is awesome. Occasionally, when retrying a section after a death, I will do better at that section overall, which is a very tiny silver lining if you have to replay 15 - 30 minutes or longer of game / cutscene.
@caraleo - Holy crap dude, thanks for pointing out Terranigma! I love "Hollow Earth" stories!
This might have been because not all explorable games were equal in quality - trekking across a continent full of random encounters just isn't fun for many people. And it might be why I started playing more WRPG's - one of my favorite things to do in Fallout 3 or Skyrim was to just set my sights on some interesting landmark on the horizon and just start walking there to see what it was!
@CaimDark - To add to the point you raised with Elsa - wasn't there an interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi, around the time the Last Story was announced, where the interviewer was like, "Are you interested in making games with more mature themes?" and he was basically like, "LOL no, why?" I think there's a bit of an obssession in the Western gaming press with games growing up or getting "serious," and while I admit I do look for more thoughtful fare - I think some part of this is coming from gaming enthusiasts seeking public validation for their hobby - and I don't get the same vibe from Japan!
Their attitude seems to be more like, "Sure, JRPGs are for kids. That's why they're about kids. Because being a kid is awesome. What of it?"
@Elsa - I concur. I've been playing JRPGs since I was in short pants (okay that's the best idiom I'll get to use all week, I'm retiring now), so the basic mechanics and patterns are just a familiar habit to me now, and I get a lot out of discovering what little nuances the designers have tweaked the formula with. But if I was just now coming to the genre, a lot of that "cutesy" factor would just kill it completely for me.
I am really excited about Ni No Kuni, though, because Studio Ghibli has produced some amazing films, and I am confident they can do cute without it being "cutesy," - not to mention when they decide to do "creepy," it usually looks fantastic.
@pedrovay2003 - Okay, enough people are raving about Chronicles that I may have to check it out. I remember playing Xenogears back in the day and, while I enjoyed it well enough, it never really "grabbed" me in a serious way - I think I was having trouble finding a character I really identified or sympathized with, which kind of put me off the series at the time.
@Chris Carter - Save anywhere is awesome. Occasionally, when retrying a section after a death, I will do better at that section overall, which is a very tiny silver lining if you have to replay 15 - 30 minutes or longer of game / cutscene.
@caraleo - Holy crap dude, thanks for pointing out Terranigma! I love "Hollow Earth" stories!
@CaimDark
Very interesting article. I remember hearing about the shunning of Otakus and the false belief that gaming is widely accepted in Japan. Glad to read an article that discusses those very points.
I do realize that gaming is not as widely accepted in Japan, but the term JRPG should not have to entail being actually released from Japan. There is a very particular style to JRPGs that give them the charm they have, but that does not have to be in virtue of them being from Japan. With that said, I do hope to see JRPG-styled games that tackle deeper issues. Unfortunately, I cannot think of too many non-Japanese developers that would take a chance at developing a game that draws upon Japanese RPGs.
Very interesting article. I remember hearing about the shunning of Otakus and the false belief that gaming is widely accepted in Japan. Glad to read an article that discusses those very points.
I do realize that gaming is not as widely accepted in Japan, but the term JRPG should not have to entail being actually released from Japan. There is a very particular style to JRPGs that give them the charm they have, but that does not have to be in virtue of them being from Japan. With that said, I do hope to see JRPG-styled games that tackle deeper issues. Unfortunately, I cannot think of too many non-Japanese developers that would take a chance at developing a game that draws upon Japanese RPGs.
Great blog. I have almost no experience with JRPGs, but your defense of them here makes me wish I knew more about them!
@Fulldamage
"Their attitude seems to be more like, "Sure, JRPGs are for kids. That's why they're about kids. Because being a kid is awesome. What of it?"
You know, for me that's one of their charms. Sure, I may now cringe at stuff that used to be cool 15 years ago, like the 4 teens engulfed by an evil so powerful it has already destroyed the entire world but still confident it will all work out because they "love each other" (makes you wonder just how loveless the rest of the world population was, since they all perished. Come to think of it, maybe I don't want to save that world!), but their unabashed reliance on sentimentality has its own unique charm, and makes for a welcome departure from the at times oppressive search for "realism" in WRPGs.. Maybe I'm just a naive romantic, but western RPGs often try too hard to show that "there is no right or wrong, only gray", and sometimes you just have to draw the line and say: "I'm going to stand against this because it's just plain evil".
@Joe
You're absolutely right, and I think it's more or less accepted these days that "JRPG" refers to a specific style of RPG, and not necessarily being made in Japan. For instance, Tales of Vesperia is clearly a JRPG, but as far as I know nobody ever called Dark Souls a JRPG.
"Their attitude seems to be more like, "Sure, JRPGs are for kids. That's why they're about kids. Because being a kid is awesome. What of it?"
You know, for me that's one of their charms. Sure, I may now cringe at stuff that used to be cool 15 years ago, like the 4 teens engulfed by an evil so powerful it has already destroyed the entire world but still confident it will all work out because they "love each other" (makes you wonder just how loveless the rest of the world population was, since they all perished. Come to think of it, maybe I don't want to save that world!), but their unabashed reliance on sentimentality has its own unique charm, and makes for a welcome departure from the at times oppressive search for "realism" in WRPGs.. Maybe I'm just a naive romantic, but western RPGs often try too hard to show that "there is no right or wrong, only gray", and sometimes you just have to draw the line and say: "I'm going to stand against this because it's just plain evil".
@Joe
You're absolutely right, and I think it's more or less accepted these days that "JRPG" refers to a specific style of RPG, and not necessarily being made in Japan. For instance, Tales of Vesperia is clearly a JRPG, but as far as I know nobody ever called Dark Souls a JRPG.
@CaimDark
Nothing wrong with that! While I was busy criticizing JRPG stories with regards to my personal taste - I have to admit, that's not necessarily the case for everyone.
There are all these big reading sci-fi / fantasy reading crazes right now ... Harry Potter, Twilight, Chronicles of Narnia, Hunger Games, Percy Jackson and more - and all of these stuff is basically YA fiction that tons of adults are reading. Really the same kind of stories that JRPGs specialize in. So - at a cursory inspection, it seems like people can still get into stories about youngsters overcoming tough odds - as long as they're well-told, spectacular stories.
Hollywood certainly gets this and makes it work to their advantage. It represents a barrier to ME, in that I'm less excited about those stories unless they're done exceptionally well. But maybe that's not the barrier for most people.
So maybe there are other, more intractable reasons why the genre is struggling to grow an audience. Maybe it just plain takes a special kind of nerd to care whether a 10% elemental boost will multiply directly on top of a 10% lightning attack sword hit or whether it is applied sequentially while an enemy is experiencing a 5% defense debuff across all elements, and only the most outrageously impressive game technology will be able to trick anybody else into caring, even briefly. ^_^;
Nothing wrong with that! While I was busy criticizing JRPG stories with regards to my personal taste - I have to admit, that's not necessarily the case for everyone.
There are all these big reading sci-fi / fantasy reading crazes right now ... Harry Potter, Twilight, Chronicles of Narnia, Hunger Games, Percy Jackson and more - and all of these stuff is basically YA fiction that tons of adults are reading. Really the same kind of stories that JRPGs specialize in. So - at a cursory inspection, it seems like people can still get into stories about youngsters overcoming tough odds - as long as they're well-told, spectacular stories.
Hollywood certainly gets this and makes it work to their advantage. It represents a barrier to ME, in that I'm less excited about those stories unless they're done exceptionally well. But maybe that's not the barrier for most people.
So maybe there are other, more intractable reasons why the genre is struggling to grow an audience. Maybe it just plain takes a special kind of nerd to care whether a 10% elemental boost will multiply directly on top of a 10% lightning attack sword hit or whether it is applied sequentially while an enemy is experiencing a 5% defense debuff across all elements, and only the most outrageously impressive game technology will be able to trick anybody else into caring, even briefly. ^_^;
Persona 3 & 4 and Xenoblade Chronicles (I'm addicted to this game no joke. 120 hours NG+ and still loosing sleep, save me!) are whats hooking me into JRPGs currently. It's because of these games that I've gone back to experience the developers past games such as SMT: Nocturne and Xenogears.
I have to say this was a very good read.
I have to say this was a very good read.
@Caimdark... I think that one of the nice things about WRPG's is that you create your own story. In Fallout New Vegas I wandered the wasteland with a loyal dog and a man who was still in love with his dead wife. We were our own family unit and my loyalty to him was in itself my own story (he was my first companion and he was with me through the whole game).
In games like Dragon Age, everyone had their own love stories.. they weren't always happy love stories, but they were likely more "real" love stories (I still can't believe that Alistair dumped me!).
One of the aspects of JRPG's that has always bothered me is that the story telling is very linear and it's not "my" story... but more of an Adventure genre game in that the story is pre-written and pre-defined.
There is still charm and naive romance to be found in WRPG's...there is still wholesome stories of one or two people standing up against evil... it all depends on the person playing the game. :)
I've not played the Persona series yet... but it does seem to offer more of the choice of the WRPG style of gaming, so possibly both genres could learn from each other.
In games like Dragon Age, everyone had their own love stories.. they weren't always happy love stories, but they were likely more "real" love stories (I still can't believe that Alistair dumped me!).
One of the aspects of JRPG's that has always bothered me is that the story telling is very linear and it's not "my" story... but more of an Adventure genre game in that the story is pre-written and pre-defined.
There is still charm and naive romance to be found in WRPG's...there is still wholesome stories of one or two people standing up against evil... it all depends on the person playing the game. :)
I've not played the Persona series yet... but it does seem to offer more of the choice of the WRPG style of gaming, so possibly both genres could learn from each other.
@Elsa
I get that, and I like what WRPGs bring to the table as well. I'm a big fan of the likes of Dragon Age and Fallout. However, I personally don't care much about "making my own story". A game like Fallout, while great, has little going for it in the way of story, and that's nor why I play it. What you see as "great, I can make my own story", I see as "hooray, no story so I can 'make my own'". Yeah, right" :)
The strength of linear RPGs is that it allows for a much stronger focus on story development than an open-ended "do what you want" game possibly could, and I'd rather enjoy an expertly crafted story than have little story so I can "make my own".
I get that, and I like what WRPGs bring to the table as well. I'm a big fan of the likes of Dragon Age and Fallout. However, I personally don't care much about "making my own story". A game like Fallout, while great, has little going for it in the way of story, and that's nor why I play it. What you see as "great, I can make my own story", I see as "hooray, no story so I can 'make my own'". Yeah, right" :)
The strength of linear RPGs is that it allows for a much stronger focus on story development than an open-ended "do what you want" game possibly could, and I'd rather enjoy an expertly crafted story than have little story so I can "make my own".
@Elsa
Also, while given the choice of "story vs choice" I'll always pick story, I completely understand where you're coming from as someone who started gaming as an adult. When I played my first JRPG, Wild Arms, I was just 13 and it completely blew me away. So much so that it is not an exaggeration to say that the main reason I learned English as well and as fast as I did was because I wanted to understand what I was going on in the game! So I have a strong emotional attachment to JRPGs that remain to this day, but it's quite likely I'd be put off by them as well if I was just starting out now.
Also, while given the choice of "story vs choice" I'll always pick story, I completely understand where you're coming from as someone who started gaming as an adult. When I played my first JRPG, Wild Arms, I was just 13 and it completely blew me away. So much so that it is not an exaggeration to say that the main reason I learned English as well and as fast as I did was because I wanted to understand what I was going on in the game! So I have a strong emotional attachment to JRPGs that remain to this day, but it's quite likely I'd be put off by them as well if I was just starting out now.
@Mr Andy Dixon!
Thanks! You know, "To The Moon" is one that I'm hearing a lot about - it's new, seems to be brief (4 hours or so), and to be built in what resembles a 16-bit JRPG engine, though there's no combat, and it seems to be mostly about puzzles and storytelling. Might be worth checking out if you have a few hours to kill!
@imDraxx
Thanks for reading! You know, if you're liking Nocturne, I'd also check out Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 for the PS2. Same creative team as Nocturne, but you fight in a party, like in Persona - and the 2nd is a direct sequel to the first, which imports some details if I remember correctly. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever finished the 2nd; suddenly I'm feeling inspired to dig it out again!
@CaimDark
Hell yeah, Wild ARMs!
One of my favorite features of that game was the fact that you could name any of the spells that your caster learned. Such a small and simple thing, but it got me really invested. I spent lots of time taking staple spells like Fire, Heal, Haste and coming up with these high-concept titles like Thermic, Organics, Accel. It made me feel like I was putting my own creative stamp on the game I was playing - without having to come to grips with advanced elements like level-building or scripting.
@Scissors
Awesome comment dialogue is awesome. Most of my meatworld friends aren't into JRPGs at all, so I get starved for this kind of conversation.
@Elsa
Honestly, I have spent far, FAR more time with WRPGs over the past few years. I love freedom to create your own story, and I love hearing about other people's completely different adventures while playing the same game.
Thanks! You know, "To The Moon" is one that I'm hearing a lot about - it's new, seems to be brief (4 hours or so), and to be built in what resembles a 16-bit JRPG engine, though there's no combat, and it seems to be mostly about puzzles and storytelling. Might be worth checking out if you have a few hours to kill!
@imDraxx
Thanks for reading! You know, if you're liking Nocturne, I'd also check out Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 for the PS2. Same creative team as Nocturne, but you fight in a party, like in Persona - and the 2nd is a direct sequel to the first, which imports some details if I remember correctly. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever finished the 2nd; suddenly I'm feeling inspired to dig it out again!
@CaimDark
Hell yeah, Wild ARMs!
One of my favorite features of that game was the fact that you could name any of the spells that your caster learned. Such a small and simple thing, but it got me really invested. I spent lots of time taking staple spells like Fire, Heal, Haste and coming up with these high-concept titles like Thermic, Organics, Accel. It made me feel like I was putting my own creative stamp on the game I was playing - without having to come to grips with advanced elements like level-building or scripting.
@Scissors
Awesome comment dialogue is awesome. Most of my meatworld friends aren't into JRPGs at all, so I get starved for this kind of conversation.
@Elsa
Honestly, I have spent far, FAR more time with WRPGs over the past few years. I love freedom to create your own story, and I love hearing about other people's completely different adventures while playing the same game.
