I liked Mass Effect 2 quite a bit and the hew characters added a lot to the world for me. Though I did miss Wrex but Grunt was pretty great for me. Interesting post.
Really? OK.
It looks like you're trying hard to be negative. Maybe its just me...
Welcome to Destructoid?
It looks like you're trying hard to be negative. Maybe its just me...
Welcome to Destructoid?
Good rant. I enjoyed this. I know how it feels to appreciate a game so much that its significant flaws drive you apeshit. I wonder if that's what it's like to have teenage children?
Only part I really agree with is the ammo clips. They should have just had a steam venting system that would basically amount to forced reloads without limiting ammunition.
Most of your other arguments or either straw men, or you just fail to support your assertions. Why is the story a forced rehash? Outside of basic good guys hunting bad guys themes, what else do the stories share?
Who says the team members join for no reason? As far as I can tell you seem to think that a personal vendetta is the only realistic motivation anyone could ever have for fighting a powerful and evil enemy. You already admitted that you're just whining about not getting all of your old crew back, so why make up other reasons?
Most of your other arguments or either straw men, or you just fail to support your assertions. Why is the story a forced rehash? Outside of basic good guys hunting bad guys themes, what else do the stories share?
Who says the team members join for no reason? As far as I can tell you seem to think that a personal vendetta is the only realistic motivation anyone could ever have for fighting a powerful and evil enemy. You already admitted that you're just whining about not getting all of your old crew back, so why make up other reasons?
I don't know, I kind of have to agree with this guy. I really loved Mass Effect 1, but ultimately... I was disappointed by Mass Effect 2. I really felt like the character development was forced and I developed no real attachment to any of them, especially since Tali and Garrus were two characters I never really talked to in the first game.
At first I really thought that Mass Effect 2 was great, then it started to dawn on me that it was extremely limited in actual exploration of the environments you could travel to. I got tired of scanning environments for safes to bypass or datapads to hack, then seeing a "mission over" screen. About 1/2 of the way into the game I just felt like I was grinding to get to the end just to be done with it. I played through it once and got all but 3 achievements I think... it really just felt like Mass Effect Lite mixed with a little Gears of War Lite, which was cool at first, but then I realized how ultimately hollow it really was. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that it just seemed like it was lacking soul.
Also... turns out planet scanning isn't actually as fun as driving the Mako around, but maybe that's just me. I thought it was pretty bad ass in the first game to drive around in the Mako on the moon and see Earth in the distance. Fighting giant Thresher Maws was pretty awesome too... I would have liked to have seen that expanded upon in ME2.
Personally, I think Dragon Age was a far better Bioware RPG that had a much more entertaining story, more complex dialogue choices and outcomes, greater complexity in its characters, and overall... just felt more like a believable, cohesive world than Mass Effect 2's universe.
At first I really thought that Mass Effect 2 was great, then it started to dawn on me that it was extremely limited in actual exploration of the environments you could travel to. I got tired of scanning environments for safes to bypass or datapads to hack, then seeing a "mission over" screen. About 1/2 of the way into the game I just felt like I was grinding to get to the end just to be done with it. I played through it once and got all but 3 achievements I think... it really just felt like Mass Effect Lite mixed with a little Gears of War Lite, which was cool at first, but then I realized how ultimately hollow it really was. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that it just seemed like it was lacking soul.
Also... turns out planet scanning isn't actually as fun as driving the Mako around, but maybe that's just me. I thought it was pretty bad ass in the first game to drive around in the Mako on the moon and see Earth in the distance. Fighting giant Thresher Maws was pretty awesome too... I would have liked to have seen that expanded upon in ME2.
Personally, I think Dragon Age was a far better Bioware RPG that had a much more entertaining story, more complex dialogue choices and outcomes, greater complexity in its characters, and overall... just felt more like a believable, cohesive world than Mass Effect 2's universe.
@ Tubatic: Really? That's a shame. I'm not, if that helps. In fact, I tried really hard to be positive from start to finish, and in the end just got frustrated by heaps of little things that felt like odd or outright stupid choices.
@ Ubersuntzu: Good points! Let me try to respond, understanding that this is an opinion piece and I'll try to use as much unbiased reasoning as possible...
"Why is the story a forced rehash? Outside of basic good guys hunting bad guys themes, what else do the stories share? "
The story, at the surface, appears extremely similar in structure to the first game. An alien species wipes out a human colony, you investigate, and begin a merry chase around the galaxy collecting a motley crew of allies whilst under the 'command' of an apparent utilitarian overlord(s). The universe is in much the same state it was at the start of ME:1, rather than the end. The council suddenly don't believe in Reapers again? Everyone has just gone back to living life as normal? We're back to square one. There's a handful of interesting reveals in ME:2, but not enough progression of the Reaper threat to feel like a true 'Act 2'. The inciting incident is - in signature - the same. The call to arms is, for all intents and purposes, the same. There is no sub-arc act structure to assist in the feeling of a progressive narrative. Instead there's just a hand full of events which, though interesting, don't really serve to improve my understanding of the narrative or the immensity of the threat. The reapers are more aloof in Act 2 than they were in Act 1, and this feels like a step away from the narrative rather than progressing it. I'm not sure that I can justify it any more than that beyond saying it feels very much like an interesting, and extremely long, side quest.
"Who says the team members join for no reason? As far as I can tell you seem to think that a personal vendetta is the only realistic motivation anyone could ever have for fighting a powerful and evil enemy. You already admitted that you're just whining about not getting all of your old crew back, so why make up other reasons?"
Absolutely, this is entirely personal. I found it much easier to emotionally connect with characters who shared my goals and motives, than to characters who seem to join just because they have nothing better to do.
@ Ubersuntzu: Good points! Let me try to respond, understanding that this is an opinion piece and I'll try to use as much unbiased reasoning as possible...
"Why is the story a forced rehash? Outside of basic good guys hunting bad guys themes, what else do the stories share? "
The story, at the surface, appears extremely similar in structure to the first game. An alien species wipes out a human colony, you investigate, and begin a merry chase around the galaxy collecting a motley crew of allies whilst under the 'command' of an apparent utilitarian overlord(s). The universe is in much the same state it was at the start of ME:1, rather than the end. The council suddenly don't believe in Reapers again? Everyone has just gone back to living life as normal? We're back to square one. There's a handful of interesting reveals in ME:2, but not enough progression of the Reaper threat to feel like a true 'Act 2'. The inciting incident is - in signature - the same. The call to arms is, for all intents and purposes, the same. There is no sub-arc act structure to assist in the feeling of a progressive narrative. Instead there's just a hand full of events which, though interesting, don't really serve to improve my understanding of the narrative or the immensity of the threat. The reapers are more aloof in Act 2 than they were in Act 1, and this feels like a step away from the narrative rather than progressing it. I'm not sure that I can justify it any more than that beyond saying it feels very much like an interesting, and extremely long, side quest.
"Who says the team members join for no reason? As far as I can tell you seem to think that a personal vendetta is the only realistic motivation anyone could ever have for fighting a powerful and evil enemy. You already admitted that you're just whining about not getting all of your old crew back, so why make up other reasons?"
Absolutely, this is entirely personal. I found it much easier to emotionally connect with characters who shared my goals and motives, than to characters who seem to join just because they have nothing better to do.
@faultymoose
That summed it up really well. It did just feel like an extremely long side quest to gather new characters for the real fight against the Reapers. It did seem odd that the story pushed the Reapers out of the picture and thrust a different threat into their place. I know they were supposedly being controlled by the Reapers, but still... it seemed odd. Hopefully we'll actually get to use the characters we joined up with in ME2 when we play through ME3... otherwise the second game will have felt like a major waste of time. I just think it was an odd direction for the story to go and I don't think it added much to it. I think it made things more convoluted if anything.
I do think it would have helped to have the support of your entire crew from the first game... it seemed pretty silly that someone like Ashley Williams would just blow you off after going through all of that shit with you just because you are working with Cerberus. I felt sort of ripped off that I didn't get to hang with my old crew again. Maybe even just the choice to have your old teammates would have been nice... pick and choose from them. I can see why they didn't do it that way, but I don't really agree with it.
I mean think about it... Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi would have sucked if only Luke came back and they replaced Leia, Chewbacca, R2D2, C3PO, and Han Solo and then just featured them in cameos.
Anyway, I agree with you 100%.
That summed it up really well. It did just feel like an extremely long side quest to gather new characters for the real fight against the Reapers. It did seem odd that the story pushed the Reapers out of the picture and thrust a different threat into their place. I know they were supposedly being controlled by the Reapers, but still... it seemed odd. Hopefully we'll actually get to use the characters we joined up with in ME2 when we play through ME3... otherwise the second game will have felt like a major waste of time. I just think it was an odd direction for the story to go and I don't think it added much to it. I think it made things more convoluted if anything.
I do think it would have helped to have the support of your entire crew from the first game... it seemed pretty silly that someone like Ashley Williams would just blow you off after going through all of that shit with you just because you are working with Cerberus. I felt sort of ripped off that I didn't get to hang with my old crew again. Maybe even just the choice to have your old teammates would have been nice... pick and choose from them. I can see why they didn't do it that way, but I don't really agree with it.
I mean think about it... Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi would have sucked if only Luke came back and they replaced Leia, Chewbacca, R2D2, C3PO, and Han Solo and then just featured them in cameos.
Anyway, I agree with you 100%.
Thermal clips are cheaper than complex ventilation systems because they are made in Spacechina. They're more economical and biodegradable. Plus colonists kept buring their hands on the old guns because they kept forgetting where the vent was.
That's why they use them.
See? Perfectly logical.
That's why they use them.
See? Perfectly logical.
@ Steel Squirrel - I'm glad to see someone feels the same way I do. It's not that Mass Effect 2 is a terrible game. The problem is that Mass Effect 2 is a terribly disappointing game. At the end I was simply left thinking... why?
I completely disagree but to each their own.
Quick tip: Perhaps making an introduction post as your first blog would have been better than a rant with FUCK thrown in every once in a while for good measure.
BTW Learn to paragraph. White space is your friend. I have seen worse, but break up those large blocks of text. The front page stories are pretty good examples of this.
Quick tip: Perhaps making an introduction post as your first blog would have been better than a rant with FUCK thrown in every once in a while for good measure.
BTW Learn to paragraph. White space is your friend. I have seen worse, but break up those large blocks of text. The front page stories are pretty good examples of this.
Nate T: Thanks for that tip. I promise, if I ever care enough about blogging, I'll write a nice entry just for you. Probably about cupcakes. <3
Like someone said before it seems like your just trying to draw anything negative out about the game. seeing that your account is fairly new I wouldnt doubt that your a troll/sony fanboy
That's awesome. I would've never thought of making a Russell Crowe Shepard if you hadn't written this. Thanks!
@ Fregoli91: My account is not 'fairly new'. This is my first blog entry, though.
Do you not get the irony of calling someone who disagrees with you a 'fanboy'? It's one step short of yelling "ONLY A IDOIT WOULD DISAGREE".
I'm not trying to draw anything negative out at all. I'm quite obviously - so obviously that it shouldn't require me pointing out how obvious it in fact is - stating my opinions on why I think Mass Effect 2 is massively overrated. I'm deeply apologetic (and that was sarcasm, which is also so obvious that it shouldn't require me pointing out how obvious it in fact is) that my opinion doesn't meet your approval.
By all means, if you disagree I would enjoy hearing your reasons why. But putting your hands on your hips and pouting doesn't really help now, does it?
@ Sir Legendhead: You're welcome!
Do you not get the irony of calling someone who disagrees with you a 'fanboy'? It's one step short of yelling "ONLY A IDOIT WOULD DISAGREE".
I'm not trying to draw anything negative out at all. I'm quite obviously - so obviously that it shouldn't require me pointing out how obvious it in fact is - stating my opinions on why I think Mass Effect 2 is massively overrated. I'm deeply apologetic (and that was sarcasm, which is also so obvious that it shouldn't require me pointing out how obvious it in fact is) that my opinion doesn't meet your approval.
By all means, if you disagree I would enjoy hearing your reasons why. But putting your hands on your hips and pouting doesn't really help now, does it?
@ Sir Legendhead: You're welcome!
@faultymoose:
I appreciate that you wrote this for a first entry. I seldom read people's first entries unless they have a nice hook like "I'm an angry lesbian from Taiwan, this is why I play games." Otherwise it's just generic stuff, "I like this game, I'm from here, etc." Also, there are no hard and fast rules about entries here, only social norms. For sheep.
I appreciate that you wrote this for a first entry. I seldom read people's first entries unless they have a nice hook like "I'm an angry lesbian from Taiwan, this is why I play games." Otherwise it's just generic stuff, "I like this game, I'm from here, etc." Also, there are no hard and fast rules about entries here, only social norms. For sheep.
It felt like they were just killing time and developing characters until the third game, because I guess when the Reapers show up and all the fighting kicks off there won't be much time to make new space friends.
But I enjoyed the game despite that, and just had fun with it. And I liked the characters more than the ME:1 cast. Really never liked Ashley, and Liara was always pretty dull. It didn't bother me at all that they just stayed out of the way (and in Ashley's case, sent me whiny letters).
But I enjoyed the game despite that, and just had fun with it. And I liked the characters more than the ME:1 cast. Really never liked Ashley, and Liara was always pretty dull. It didn't bother me at all that they just stayed out of the way (and in Ashley's case, sent me whiny letters).
I can't help but feel that your dislike for Mass Effect 2 is partially inspired by the fact that you needed an eye catching first post. Before the last chapter, I was so thoroughly into what was going on I found myself standing up. I heard some complaints about the ending, and the story, but the way it differs from ME1 is it somehow hit a few more chords. As for the characters, Mordin and Legion. Better than most from ME1 other than Wrex.
@ EraVulgaris: I can't help but feel that your response is a typical "You disagree with my point of view so I must invalidate your opinion by assigning you an ulterior motive" reply.
You're polite and friendly though, and you at least expressed some of your own thoughts, so instead of rolling my eyes at you, I will assure you, I don't care enough about blogging to have a need for an 'eye catching first post'. In fact, the post is the symptom, not the cause. Beyond blogging an international holiday for the sake of showing off some photos, and a few random art related pieces, I've never blogged anything else in my life.
Mass Effect 2 disappointed me SO MUCH, it inspired me to rush to the interweb and rant about it.
I did not sit at my desk chewing my thumb and wondering "Hm... what can I pretend to think for the sake of scoring eFriends?"
You're polite and friendly though, and you at least expressed some of your own thoughts, so instead of rolling my eyes at you, I will assure you, I don't care enough about blogging to have a need for an 'eye catching first post'. In fact, the post is the symptom, not the cause. Beyond blogging an international holiday for the sake of showing off some photos, and a few random art related pieces, I've never blogged anything else in my life.
Mass Effect 2 disappointed me SO MUCH, it inspired me to rush to the interweb and rant about it.
I did not sit at my desk chewing my thumb and wondering "Hm... what can I pretend to think for the sake of scoring eFriends?"
I guess I don't really understand how a game that to me seemed to improve on the original in almost every conceivable way (except the RPG elements) could disappoint.
You admitted the combat was better, the set pieces are in my opinion, better. Try it on insane. It's a bit more cerebral in terms of combat. The story seemed short, but it was riveting. I don't really think good guy chases bad guy could really be called a rehash, unless you've never liked a story in a game ever. It IS, afterall, a sequel. It expands on the same universe, with similar characters.
There is an explanation for everybody going on as normal, and it is the same as in the first, lies. Which I found perfectly acceptable as a story element, because the foundation had be set.
I went in with high hopes, and came out with higher hopes for ME3. There is no doubt, I've been disappointed in AAA titles (Gears of War... not as good as I was told). This was not the case. I think the only point I would agree on other than RPG elements which I didn't miss enough for it to make me cry and rage on the internet, is people joining your group. But they all had alright stories this time. Last time, half of my team bored me to tears.
You admitted the combat was better, the set pieces are in my opinion, better. Try it on insane. It's a bit more cerebral in terms of combat. The story seemed short, but it was riveting. I don't really think good guy chases bad guy could really be called a rehash, unless you've never liked a story in a game ever. It IS, afterall, a sequel. It expands on the same universe, with similar characters.
There is an explanation for everybody going on as normal, and it is the same as in the first, lies. Which I found perfectly acceptable as a story element, because the foundation had be set.
I went in with high hopes, and came out with higher hopes for ME3. There is no doubt, I've been disappointed in AAA titles (Gears of War... not as good as I was told). This was not the case. I think the only point I would agree on other than RPG elements which I didn't miss enough for it to make me cry and rage on the internet, is people joining your group. But they all had alright stories this time. Last time, half of my team bored me to tears.
Fair enough :) I don't really understand myself how so many people view ME:2 as a game which "improves on the original in almost every conceivable way". So we're agreed to disagree, then.
I wish I liked it as much as most people. I wish I adored it, as some seem to. But I personally found it failed to live up to expectations in almost every conceivable way.
Visually superb, audio is a hell of a lot better than the first game, and non-story-related dialogue has more substance. These are all really strong point for ME:2. But they don't, for me, outweigh those things I've begun listing which I consider to be failures - often only minor ones, but which in my opinion exceeded a critical mass that took those flaws from being easily ignored, to incredibly frustrating.
I wish I liked it as much as most people. I wish I adored it, as some seem to. But I personally found it failed to live up to expectations in almost every conceivable way.
Visually superb, audio is a hell of a lot better than the first game, and non-story-related dialogue has more substance. These are all really strong point for ME:2. But they don't, for me, outweigh those things I've begun listing which I consider to be failures - often only minor ones, but which in my opinion exceeded a critical mass that took those flaws from being easily ignored, to incredibly frustrating.
EDIT: Visually superb except for Grunt's horrendously ugly rescue mission. Thankfully, besides a few 7/10 visuals in the occasional side mission, the rest of the game was really gorgeous.
I personally found the second game to be an improvement over the first. Though I certainly miss some of the old characters and was at first unwelcoming of the new faces, this is the internim chapter. It isn't the first installment, trying to awe and tantalize you into the series, and it isn't the finale, trying to tie everything together. It introduces a lot of partially-disconnected but nevertheless stellar content to hold us over until the next chapter. Mildly disappointing to those not familiar with, say, the basic concept of a trilogy, yes, but expected for the rest of us.
@ SimonSaysDie: Such a shame that you presented a clear and concise opinion, and then ruined it by being patronising in a passive-aggressive, too-much-of-a-bitch-to-be-outright-insulting kind of way.
Also, pro-tip: Next time, before trying to appear as though you have special insight into a topic, try google. I suggest starting with "Joseph Campbell" and the monomyth (the book "The Hero With a Thousand Faces" is a very interesting read, if not quite as respected today as it was when first released). A work more appropriate to this specific argument would be "The Hero's Journey" by Phil Cousineau. Also, since the trilogy is based on the three-Act formula favored by modern cinema, and by your own admission you're calling out the intention of a trilogy as vindication for Mass Effect 2's structure, you should read "Film Art" by David Bordwell / Kristen Thompson. It's had many revised editions over the years, and is still considered one of the seminal works on cinema art.
I wrote my thesis on storytelling, and its role in traditional and contemporary cultures. Just an FYI.
Also, pro-tip: Next time, before trying to appear as though you have special insight into a topic, try google. I suggest starting with "Joseph Campbell" and the monomyth (the book "The Hero With a Thousand Faces" is a very interesting read, if not quite as respected today as it was when first released). A work more appropriate to this specific argument would be "The Hero's Journey" by Phil Cousineau. Also, since the trilogy is based on the three-Act formula favored by modern cinema, and by your own admission you're calling out the intention of a trilogy as vindication for Mass Effect 2's structure, you should read "Film Art" by David Bordwell / Kristen Thompson. It's had many revised editions over the years, and is still considered one of the seminal works on cinema art.
I wrote my thesis on storytelling, and its role in traditional and contemporary cultures. Just an FYI.
Sorry for the necromancy but I just thought I had to point out a few minor problems that no one else seems to have picked up on. Originally, I would have agreed with most of what was said in this article but, as I'm currently in the middle of replaying the first game, I've discovered that my memory of the first wasn't as good as I thought.
1) No one ever believed in the reapers except for your team and the military guy you have the option of placing on the council (and of course Saren).
2) The characters in the second are a lot more fleshed out and actually have a strong personality
3) Weapons were are a lot better to use in the second (I thought the whole combat system sucked, but thats mainly due to them nerfing the biotics which was my class)
Frankly, I like pretty much everything that was added to the game. The things that really aggravated me was the removal of the Mako, completely changing how biotics act (all recharge times linked and many were changed from area of effect to singular targets, making what was useful almost useless), the removal of a lot of the RPG stuff (1st had tons of skills you could improve in smaller increments allowing you to customize more, less selection in weaponry/cusomization, etc) and changing from just overheating weapons to ammo clips (seems completely retarded that they'd make it so you can now run out of ammo, yes, maybe have a "clip" that can be replaced to speed up cooling, but default to the overheat & cool if you run out of "clips").
I suggest you have another go at the first to do a proper comparison of the two (also its interesting to see how different choices can affect the game such as saving/destroying the council).
1) No one ever believed in the reapers except for your team and the military guy you have the option of placing on the council (and of course Saren).
2) The characters in the second are a lot more fleshed out and actually have a strong personality
3) Weapons were are a lot better to use in the second (I thought the whole combat system sucked, but thats mainly due to them nerfing the biotics which was my class)
Frankly, I like pretty much everything that was added to the game. The things that really aggravated me was the removal of the Mako, completely changing how biotics act (all recharge times linked and many were changed from area of effect to singular targets, making what was useful almost useless), the removal of a lot of the RPG stuff (1st had tons of skills you could improve in smaller increments allowing you to customize more, less selection in weaponry/cusomization, etc) and changing from just overheating weapons to ammo clips (seems completely retarded that they'd make it so you can now run out of ammo, yes, maybe have a "clip" that can be replaced to speed up cooling, but default to the overheat & cool if you run out of "clips").
I suggest you have another go at the first to do a proper comparison of the two (also its interesting to see how different choices can affect the game such as saving/destroying the council).

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