DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SPOIL ANY PART OF MODERN WARFARE 2'S CAMPAIGN! SERIOUSLY, THIS SHIT BE BIG, AND CONTROVERSIAL. EXPECT THE MEDIA TO RUIN IT FOR YOU ANYWAYS WITH THEIR LACK OF SPOILER TAGS.
Anyways, I hope I've taken up enough room to make sure no one reads any of the real meat to this blog on the cblogs home page. Anyways, be prepared for Fox News to (try and) rip Modern Warfare 2 a new asshole in the coming weeks. We all saw how some tight asses here from the US got all up in arms over a fucking trailer that showed war in Washington DC, but oh man, that was nothing compared to what you're about to see in this video...
Yeah, that's right... remember the first trailer of Modern Warfare 2 where there were Russian terrorists opening fire in a crowded airport... YOU PLAY THAT. You fucking mow down unarmed civilians.
Now, being a level headed person, I don't really mind that. I know how to separate fact from fiction, story telling from gratuitous violence, and so on. But I can still see how this is a huge risk for Infinity Ward and Activision. I'm honestly surprised this wasn't cut out, the amount of potential shit that could be given to the game, given how huge it already is, could be tremendous.
At least they don't have an achievement for mowing down X amount of civilians...
I can see a LOT of people boycotting this game for yet another reason now (parents). I'm picking up Borderlands instead of this, but I want to play the single player now.
Good for them, the sooner Fox dies of dehydration from too many bowel releases into their collective pants, the sooner we can all move on.
No but seriously, I'm glad someone big enough like this is pushing the envelope, since we know it won't get killed by media backlash. Activision will laugh all the way to the bank on this one, as usual.
I hope they have an ability to walk through that part of the game and not participate... I really just have no interest in killing unarmed civilian opponents. Eh... I'll wait and see how they've tied this in and made it relevant within the game...
You do sort of get your comeuppance at the end of the level (you're shot in the head by the main terrorist in a swift betrayal), so I guess that's Infinity Ward's way of punishing you for taking part...and washing their hands at the same time. I think it would have been a lot more controversial if your character walked away free.
I like how the game is forcing you to think of consequences and implications. Hell, we participate in passive violence on the cinema screen (something that was brilliantly questioned in the movie Lady Vengence), so why get away with it in a videogame.
The other thing I noticed is that you don't have to kill anyone other than the police in self-defense. I'll be interested to see who will pull the trigger and who doesn't...and why.
Modern Warfare 1 had two separate characters (Soap and the US Marine). I was curious if they were going to do the same with this one. For a moment, I thought you might play two campaigns that mirrored each other on opposite sides of the conflict, which might have been interesting.
That being said, if what Stevil said is true, I'm guessing this is actually just the opening level, sort of like a more interactive version of the opening from the first game that also includes your character biting the dust before the end of the level.
Now. Let's get to brass tacks.
Is this a good idea? Only if it actually matters. I'm all for games taking on controversial topics, and setting your game in a modern combat setting means that you pretty much have to do that face-on if you're making a serious effort of it. If there is a depth and density to what is going on around you - if you feel bad for it, it may be considered a success.
may.
We all know that there are jackasses who will not take it as intended (see jackass playing in this video), but some pressure has to be put on Infinity Ward. If it comes off as cheap or exploitive in any way, it's going to fail. Hard. And no good will come to the games industry as a whole for it. They're playing with heavy dice.
There better not be an achievement or trophy for beating the level. There should be NO reward for playing through the slaughter of innocent people, even an arbitrary one (congrats! you didn't kill anybody! here's an achievement!)
I disagree, I think there should be an achievement for not killing anyone. Other then that ya it's pretty gruesome but then, I mow down civi's in GTA and Saints Row with a bseball bat. I guess this is KIND of different.. but not really by much..
I don't really see the controversy. Terrorism is a real thing. What's so bad about it being in a game? I hope FOX news thinks about all the movies with far more gruesome terrorism in it than this before they crucify MW2. I personally am not getting MW2, but I do have a lot of respect for Infinity Ward. Also, thanks for sharing.
Difference is in context. Niko Bellic is a singular element, he doesn't represent something larger. It can be argued that he never goes specifically plans on injuring innocent people everytime he goes outside (indeed, I went out of my way not to hurt innocent people). In Modern Warfare 2, you're part of a terrorist organization with the specific goal of tearing through an airport loaded with innocent people while carrying light machine guns. The defined goal of terrorists is to, well, terrorize.
@grafkhun;
"I hope FOX news thinks about all the movies with far more gruesome terroism in it than this before they crucify MWC." Yes, let's see how well that works out.
Well the difference I see in killing civilians in GTA and Modern Warfare 2 is the perspective. GTA is third person so theres a bit of a detachment, and not to sound like good 'ol JT here, but in an FPS you are staring straight down the trigger and choosing to pull the trigger, and now its against fleeing civilians. I think Modern Warfare 2 could possibly be a lot more of an "issue"
I liked this, i think we should have more games that not only explore more the real world but also shows what's really bad and slap you in the face with it.
This is more evil than all Fallout 3 evil choices together.
I wonder about the choices the game is giving you. Can you simply choose not to fire your gun at the civilians? If you refuse to, does that influence the progression whatsoever? Will a fellow terrorist shoot you down for being unable to kill unarmed civilians? Will that be the end of the level if you do that, or if that happens, would you have to replay that level in order to progress?
I applaud Infinity Ward for doing this, it shows real courage, especially since they almost certainly know there will be a backlash, but I can't help but get this disconcerting feeling upon looking at it.
It's already on CNN's ireport.com. CNN and MSNBC aren't much better than Fox News (i.e. they're all crap) but I imagine they'll all be moaning about this soon.
If they did a mission that flash backed to the Bosnian War where you are a Serbian and your mission is to kill all male civilians including children and rape Bosnian women....would you be able to defend that? Can anyone defend that here? I'd like to hear it. It's just a game right? IW is talented. I'm sure they could make it "real" and make the gameplay mechanics and story engrossing... If it moves the story forward and pushes the envelope it's good right? Who wants rape and child killing in their next Modern Warfare game? Please raise your hand. I hope activision and IW lose a metric ton of money on this.
I saw it on youtube, maybe it's the same video? It's walking really slow, and even when it runs he doesn't move to much, so it might be the intro. Even if that's the case... i'm not going to lie, i don't feel comfortable watching it. It's an unvelievable powerful scene, but for you to be in control of that... well, it's sickening. I would prefer to be one of those civilians, have the bad dudes coming and me making a run for it.
Still, it makes for a great debate whether a game like that it's going too far or not. I believe it is. Just thinking that there are people out there playing and remotely enjoying it, well, i don't have words. "Fear" might be the one. "Sick fuck" is a close second.
The crucial difference is about control. In the MWI you couldn't do anything while they dragged you around, ultimately killing you. Here not only you have control, you are the executioner, you have the power to do something, to be a part of a massacre. I don't want that power.
Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?
Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!
Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press living the dream since March 16, 2006
covah's blog
follow this blog
subscribe via RSS
send message
invite to meetup+play
the video doesnt work. But daaaamn
huh really? its working for me. maybe its the embedding. This is the page I saw it at originally.
I had pretty much guessed what this post was going to be about before reading or watching the video. Sounds fun anyway.
Wow, thats fucking crazy.
That's....................really fucking controversial.
I can see a LOT of people boycotting this game for yet another reason now (parents). I'm picking up Borderlands instead of this, but I want to play the single player now.
Woooooooooooow.
Wow.
I can't say much more than that. I'm not offended, but I am already seeing the implications of this in my head and it is not pretty.
Good for them, the sooner Fox dies of dehydration from too many bowel releases into their collective pants, the sooner we can all move on.
No but seriously, I'm glad someone big enough like this is pushing the envelope, since we know it won't get killed by media backlash. Activision will laugh all the way to the bank on this one, as usual.
I hear a shitstorm coming. This ain't gonna be pretty.
I hope they have an ability to walk through that part of the game and not participate... I really just have no interest in killing unarmed civilian opponents. Eh... I'll wait and see how they've tied this in and made it relevant within the game...
Ok yeah controversy, blah blah blah....
Are you guys hearing the douchebag in the video!?
"Well, I guess if you're a screwed-up cocksucker, you'll want to play this..."
5 seconds later
"BOOM! Hahaha this is HILARIOUS!"
You do sort of get your comeuppance at the end of the level (you're shot in the head by the main terrorist in a swift betrayal), so I guess that's Infinity Ward's way of punishing you for taking part...and washing their hands at the same time. I think it would have been a lot more controversial if your character walked away free.
I like how the game is forcing you to think of consequences and implications. Hell, we participate in passive violence on the cinema screen (something that was brilliantly questioned in the movie Lady Vengence), so why get away with it in a videogame.
The other thing I noticed is that you don't have to kill anyone other than the police in self-defense. I'll be interested to see who will pull the trigger and who doesn't...and why.
Modern Warfare 1 had two separate characters (Soap and the US Marine). I was curious if they were going to do the same with this one. For a moment, I thought you might play two campaigns that mirrored each other on opposite sides of the conflict, which might have been interesting.
That being said, if what Stevil said is true, I'm guessing this is actually just the opening level, sort of like a more interactive version of the opening from the first game that also includes your character biting the dust before the end of the level.
Now. Let's get to brass tacks.
Is this a good idea? Only if it actually matters. I'm all for games taking on controversial topics, and setting your game in a modern combat setting means that you pretty much have to do that face-on if you're making a serious effort of it. If there is a depth and density to what is going on around you - if you feel bad for it, it may be considered a success.
may.
We all know that there are jackasses who will not take it as intended (see jackass playing in this video), but some pressure has to be put on Infinity Ward. If it comes off as cheap or exploitive in any way, it's going to fail. Hard. And no good will come to the games industry as a whole for it. They're playing with heavy dice.
There better not be an achievement or trophy for beating the level. There should be NO reward for playing through the slaughter of innocent people, even an arbitrary one (congrats! you didn't kill anybody! here's an achievement!)
FUCK YEAH!
Joking, but really, I consider myself one who isn't offended easily and this is kindaaa crazy.
I'll still play it, but damn...
I have a feeling that there is more to it though, some type of emotional impact.
Hell, shooting down civilians is fucking terrifying, maybe thats the reaction IW is going for? A, "how the fuck could anyone really do this" reaction.
Looks awesome.
I don't care for controversy.
Terrorism happens.
Sounds good to me.
This game is deep. I'll just walk through that part... or will I? MWHAHAHA
This gives me some ideas...BRB...
I disagree, I think there should be an achievement for not killing anyone. Other then that ya it's pretty gruesome but then, I mow down civi's in GTA and Saints Row with a bseball bat. I guess this is KIND of different.. but not really by much..
I don't really see the controversy. Terrorism is a real thing. What's so bad about it being in a game? I hope FOX news thinks about all the movies with far more gruesome terrorism in it than this before they crucify MW2. I personally am not getting MW2, but I do have a lot of respect for Infinity Ward. Also, thanks for sharing.
@Neonie;
Difference is in context. Niko Bellic is a singular element, he doesn't represent something larger. It can be argued that he never goes specifically plans on injuring innocent people everytime he goes outside (indeed, I went out of my way not to hurt innocent people). In Modern Warfare 2, you're part of a terrorist organization with the specific goal of tearing through an airport loaded with innocent people while carrying light machine guns. The defined goal of terrorists is to, well, terrorize.
@grafkhun;
"I hope FOX news thinks about all the movies with far more gruesome terroism in it than this before they crucify MWC." Yes, let's see how well that works out.
Wow. Shitstorm incoming.
Wow... This can't end well at all.
@Neonie
Well the difference I see in killing civilians in GTA and Modern Warfare 2 is the perspective. GTA is third person so theres a bit of a detachment, and not to sound like good 'ol JT here, but in an FPS you are staring straight down the trigger and choosing to pull the trigger, and now its against fleeing civilians. I think Modern Warfare 2 could possibly be a lot more of an "issue"
Oh. My. God.
Wow.
On the other hand, I have heard the mission can be skipped, in case of offence.
But damn.
The video is on Youtube now, here.
I predict shitstorm.
Wow, the video just got bizanned.
Uh, oh.
FUCK YEAH[2]!
I liked this, i think we should have more games that not only explore more the real world but also shows what's really bad and slap you in the face with it.
This is more evil than all Fallout 3 evil choices together.
I wonder about the choices the game is giving you. Can you simply choose not to fire your gun at the civilians? If you refuse to, does that influence the progression whatsoever? Will a fellow terrorist shoot you down for being unable to kill unarmed civilians? Will that be the end of the level if you do that, or if that happens, would you have to replay that level in order to progress?
I applaud Infinity Ward for doing this, it shows real courage, especially since they almost certainly know there will be a backlash, but I can't help but get this disconcerting feeling upon looking at it.
It's already on CNN's ireport.com. CNN and MSNBC aren't much better than Fox News (i.e. they're all crap) but I imagine they'll all be moaning about this soon.
shit+fan=not good
Agreed with Neonie.
Being a virtual scum-bag with no respect for human life who's in it for money Vs one who's in it for a political agenda = Same difference.
If they did a mission that flash backed to the Bosnian War where you are a Serbian and your mission is to kill all male civilians including children and rape Bosnian women....would you be able to defend that? Can anyone defend that here? I'd like to hear it. It's just a game right? IW is talented. I'm sure they could make it "real" and make the gameplay mechanics and story engrossing... If it moves the story forward and pushes the envelope it's good right? Who wants rape and child killing in their next Modern Warfare game? Please raise your hand. I hope activision and IW lose a metric ton of money on this.
Oh. Wow.
I saw it on youtube, maybe it's the same video? It's walking really slow, and even when it runs he doesn't move to much, so it might be the intro. Even if that's the case... i'm not going to lie, i don't feel comfortable watching it. It's an unvelievable powerful scene, but for you to be in control of that... well, it's sickening. I would prefer to be one of those civilians, have the bad dudes coming and me making a run for it.
Still, it makes for a great debate whether a game like that it's going too far or not. I believe it is. Just thinking that there are people out there playing and remotely enjoying it, well, i don't have words. "Fear" might be the one. "Sick fuck" is a close second.
The crucial difference is about control. In the MWI you couldn't do anything while they dragged you around, ultimately killing you. Here not only you have control, you are the executioner, you have the power to do something, to be a part of a massacre. I don't want that power.