Follow
RSS
ContactAbout Me
Gamer Profile
3DS friend code:
Steam:
Battle:
PSN:
Mii:
Gamertag:
Steam:
Battle:
PSN:
Mii:
Gamertag:
Following (3)
|
|
For the past few days, I have found myself rummaging through the depths of the internet. I was peeking and peering upon all of the gaming news. I scrolled through all of the comments reading them one at a time and as much as I already knew about all of the gaming stereotypes, I found myself in a new level of confusion when someone simply asked, "Hardcore? What does that mean?" I try to stay neutral in my opinions of all of the game systems. I own all of them except the PS3 which I have full access to. I even own a GP2X and hopefully a Pandora soon as well. I love them all. However, I find myself playing on the Wii more than any other console and with the extremely negative views toward the system I jumped right in the flame war to defend it even while heavily outnumbered on the communities I was in. The Xbox 360 and the PS3 are considered my the majority to be considered the "hardcore systems". The Wii is considered to be the "casual system". I am always confused by this so I decided to look deeper once the question was sprung upon me. In this article, I'll cover some various complaints with the Wii and try to understand why it isn't "hardcore". I'll also argue many of the points made against the Wii. Don't get me wrong. The Wii has many faults. Every system out there does. However, it isn't a "dust collecting" worthy machine like everyone seems to believe. I'll attempt to dispel some of that thought. What is a hardcore game? Let's go over some various options for answers. 1: A game that has a steep learning curve. Be it controls, game play, depth of options, or anything else. 2: A game with either great reply value or a game that requires a great amount of time to advance or complete. 3: A game that involves an incredible amount in intense, heart pounding action that causes a high level of emotional stress. 4: A game specifically targeted towards an adult audience and not toward anyone else. 5: A game that is very unforgiving and/or requires a great deal of skill to advance or complete. What is a hardcore gamer? We'll go over some options for this as well. 1: A person who puts a great deal of time into playing and researching video games. 2: A person who generally plays on a console opposite of what the majority plays on or plays on the console with the least amount of "shovelware titles" (Shovelware being poor quality games quickly produced at low cost). 3: A person who only plays games specifically targeted toward an adult audience and no one else. Hardcore Answers? Learning Curve So, lets begin by going through the options of the first question. The are quite a bit of games that have a steep learning curve. Most RTS games, western RPGs (Elder Scrolls, Bioware, AD&D), tactical RPGs, stealth action games, or fighting games. Occasionally, a FPS requires a small learning curve like System Shock, C&C Renegade, or UT2k4 / 3. Each system seems to have these games. Going by exclusives, PS3 has Valkyria Chronicles and a beautiful Naruto fighter. Wii has Brawl, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Battalion Wars 2, a few great anime fighters, and Fire Emblem. Xbox 360 has Fable 2 and two great Naruto platforming/adventure/rpg/fighter games. Replay Value & Action Games When it comes to reply value, it's always a plus. It gives the players a reason to keep coming back for more. Unlockable characters, items, and tougher difficulties make the games more fulfilling. Fast-paced action games are great and all but it seems that there haven't really been much innovation with it in a while. I suppose that's why I've stuck with Quake 2 & 3 as well as the UT series when I need to get my blood pumping. Mature Titles Adult only or extremely mature games don't necessarily make them good. You can't just throw some titties and gore and random profanities into a game and call it a day. But if that's what you go for then each system still offers plenty of gore for everyone. The Wii will supply you with a healthy dose of No More Heroes, Manhunt 2, Godfather, and Mortal Kombat: Armageddon and we have Dead Rising and MadWorld coming up soon. Online FPS I began pondering about what exactly the other systems have that the Wii doesn't. The Xbox 360 only has a few exclusive titles and most of those are sure to be ported to PC eventually (Fable 2, Halo 3, and maybe Gears someday). The only thing it's lacking in compared to the other systems is online shooters. That must be it, right? The PS3 and Xbox 360 are littered in online shooters, most of which can be played on both systems and on the PC. The Wii really only has Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 and CoD:WoW, both of which play fantastic online (which makes me confused about the so called "poor online service"). There's also The Conduit coming soon which will support online, voice chat, and the Motion Plus adapter for better accuracy. Poor Online Service It is assumed by many that the Wii has a poor online service. In comparison to the one you pay $60+ a year for, sure it is but overall, this is a myth. In fact, most of the online games play great over the Wii. There are a few exceptions such as Brawl. Hopefully, they'll get it right next time. I won't lie. Friend codes are bullshit. But did that stop me from enjoying Medal of Honor, CoD, Mario Kart, Guitar Hero, Metroid, Zelda and a large amount of other online Wii and DS games? Not at all. I do hope Nintendo learns for the next time around. There are far better methods of parental controls that don't prevent you from meeting and befriending other online players in the games. Hardcore Gamers? Shovelware It seems to me that the people who claim to be "hardcore gamers" can usually be lumped in the the #2 and #3 categories. But wait. The Wii is full of tons of shovelware, right? That must mean it's catered to non core gamers and rather to families or stupid people buying random things for their kids. Most of the Atari 2600 games were shovelware. The original Nintendo had more shovelware than anyone can count. The Super Nintendo (Genesis had a large share too) had the same. The PS1 and PS2 had a MASSIVE amount of shovelware. The DS is more guilty than anything else of this. Do you know why? It's because they were the most popular systems. If you're going to pump out quickly and cheaply made crappy games, what system is the obvious choice? The one that sold 100 million or the one that sold 20 million? No Good Games It's commonly thought that the we doesn't have any decent titles worth playing besides the handful of first party titles. This is a huge myth which I will dispel at the end of this article. See the very end for a large list of many excellent games and many fair games worth checking out. Conclusion of Study: My Answers A Hardcore Game is still not clearly defined and probably won't ever be. Opinions of what it is vary from person to person. Some people may not think Mario games are hardcore since they are targeted to the general population. I tend to think they are up there with the best hardcore games. In my opinion, a hardcore game includes many, but not all of the elements previously mentioned. It is addictive. It requires a fair amount of skill. It may cater to ANY audience at "E" or above. It has great reply value. Sometimes it includes many of the other elements mentioned. If a steep learning curve is what determined hardcore then Eve Online and Dwarf Fortress would be a couple of the most hardcore games currently. I do think they are hardcore but I don't think it's for that reason alone that makes them that way. I remember when being able to get past the first level of most NES, SNES, or Genesis games meant you were pretty bad ass. You'd spend hours and hours trying to makes any progress and you could be on the last boss, die, and have to start all over. These games today don't generally offer the same amount of challenge. Even most of the games today that are considered hardcore don't make the games too hard at all. I dare all developers to make a shooter game or RPG as difficult as Radiant Silvergun or BattleToads. A Hardcore Gamer can easily be defined by myself. A true hardcore gamer is a person who has love for ALL games and ALL game systems. They might have preferences but are never "fanboys". They understand that every system was good and bad in it's own ways and don't make lame excuses for why a system is doing good or bad. Does the 360 commonly have faulty hardware? Did Sony drop backwards compatibility on their system and disappoint many customers as a result? Does the Wii have hardware on par (or not much more powerful) with the original Xbox and have a terribly small storage device? Sure. But that doesn't mean any of them are bad systems. A hardcore gamer is never afraid to try out any title and ignore poor ratings. They always look for a challenge and look to achieve as much as they can. They research both the games they love and the ones they don't like. Their hearts always warm to the sound of a good game regardless of what console it may lie on. They are not graphics whores. They can pick up and play ANY good game even if it's text based or uses ASCII symbols for graphics (that's truly hardcore). They are never afraid to try new things. Large List of Great Wii Games I'm almost done. Most of the people out there don't even research all the great titles on the Wii and just assume there isn't anything good on it. That's a HUGE myth. The system has only been out for a couple of years but has a decent library of great games. You people with dusty Wiis have ZERO excuse for that. Here's the promised list. Bolded are my personal favorites. Great Games Worthy To Buy New: Wii Exclusives: Animal Crossing: City Folk Battalion Wars 2 Blast Works Boom Blox Castle of Shikigami III (note: not exclusive in Japan) de Blob Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors Endless Ocean Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn Geometry Wars: Galaxies Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility Mario Party 8 Mario Strikers Charged Mario Super Sluggers Metroid Prime 3 Mushroom Men: The Spore Wars Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution 1 & 2 NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams No More Heroes Pokemon Battle Revolution Rayman Raving Rabbids Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip Super Mario Galaxy Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz [b]Super Paper Mario[b] Super Smash Brothers Brawl Super Swing Golf Season 2 Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Cross Generation of Heroes (Japan import only) Trauma Center: New Blood Trauma Center: Second Opinion Victorious Boxers: Revolution Wario Land: Shake It! WarioWare: Smooth Moves Wii Fit Wii Play Wii Sports Worms: A Space Oddity Zack & Wiki Non Exclusives: Agatha Christie games Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII Bully: Scholarship Edition Call of Duty 3 Call of Duty: World at War Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop DDR games Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2 & 3 Godfather: Blackhand Edition Guitar Heroes Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law House of the Dead 2 & 3 The King of Fighters Collection: The Orochi Saga Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Lego games Manhunt 2 Marvel: Ultimate Alliance Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 Medal of Honor: Vanguard Mercury Meltdown Revolution Metal Slug Anthology Monster Lab Mortal Kombat: Armageddon Okami Prince of Persia Rival Swords Resident Evil: 4 Rock Bands Sam & Max: Season One Splinter Cell games Sports games Star Wars: The Force Unleashed Decent Games Worthy To Buy Used or Rent: Alien Syndrome Battle of the Bands Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree Bleach: Shattered Blade Castlevania Judgment Cooking Mama (and other Mama games) Elebits Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon Ghost Squad My Fitness Coach MySims titles Ninja Reflex One Piece: Unlimited Adventure Line Rider 2: Unbound Samba de Amigo Sonic Unleashed SSX Blur We Ski Great WiiWare Titles: Star Soldier R Mega Man 9 FFCC: My Life As a King World of Goo Tetris Party Toki Tori Lost Winds Dr. Mario Online Rx Defend Your Castle Gyrostarr Art Style: Orbient Bomberman Blast Space Invaders Get Even *****soon to come***** Bubble Bobble Wii Cave Story Gradius Rebirth Exclusive Future Titles To Look Out For in 2009 and Beyond: (consider this whole list bolded and reccomended) Boom Blox 2 Conduit Deadly Creatures Dragon Quest X Fatal Frame IV Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles x2 (Echoes of Time / The Crystal Bearers) House of the Dead: Overkill Kirby (2009 title) Madworld Monster Hunter G (non exclusive) Monster Hunter 3 Muramasa: The Demon Blade New Play Control games (not exclusives.. Gamecube rereleases) No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle Punch-Out!! Wii Ready 2 Rumble: Revolution (not exclusive) Sadness (possible vaporware) Sin & Punishment 2 Star Wars: Battlefront III (not exclusive) Swords of Legendia Tenchu 4: Shadow Assassins (not exclusive / PSP) ---------- That's all I can come up with for now but don't forget all of the great Gamecube games as well as the large list of Virtual Console titles. Now dust off that great system you have in front of you and check out some of the excellent games I have listed. ----------
|
|
|
|
Post a comment! You can also post a photo below:
|
Comment with FacebookClick connect and comment instantly! |
Comment with Dtoid
New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds |
Comments policy
Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?
Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!
All editorial content, including blogs, comments, and forums written by our community, are protected by a
Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing requiring attribution.
Destructoid aka ModernMethod is an independently-run company forged by our childhood love of video games and adulthood hatred mainstream video game press.
Living the dream since March 16, 2006
Living the dream since March 16, 2006
I jape,
I read your full post but i think you are somehow missing the point, i can't put my finger on it but your points seem a bit weightless to me.
I think its quite simple, Hardcore gamers tend to usually spend a lot of time with high quality titles(of their opinion) and playing perhaps at or close to a high ability tier reserved for the better players. If not appreciate the finer nuances in gameplay.
STFU SUPERD!!!
boring subject is boring
Great job writing it, but it seems like part of your goal in doing so was to tell "hardcore" gamers that the Wii has good "hardcore" games. A noble gesture, but it will likely fall upon deaf ears.
If you are one of the hardcore gamers that have abandoned Nitnendo (and judging from the lack luster sales of Metroid Prime 3, there are a lot of them), the last thing you want to hear is that you did the wrong thing. PS3/360 only owners love to bash the Wii because it makes them feel like they made the right decision in dismissing Nintendo.
It's a big topic that I wont try to tackle here, but suffice to say that there are a lot of things that people hate about Nitnendo these days, but it's those very things that have led them to be such a huge success that they are right now.
I think if you would have narrowed down your topic a bit, it would have helped. To try and cover 'what is hardcore' and argue that 'the Wii is hardcore' all in one post, is a bit much. But a valiant effort you did put forth, so bravo for that. I love to ramble too so long winded posts, I enjoy. It has also been awhile since someone brought this topic up. Its been covered time and time again but I always enjoy a good discussion.
Here's my thoughts: A hardcore gamer to me is someone who, when put in a room with 10 other gamers to talk about games, can join in and have an intelligent conversation about every game mentioned amongst them because he/she has played them all. New to old, PC to platform.
If there is a game brought up that they haven't heard of, they make a note to play it... and actually do so.
That, to me, defines a hardcore gamer. An open minded, play anything and everything attitude, save for one or two genres they just personally don't enjoy but can still appreciate the skill it takes to be good at said genre.
By that definition, I doubt there are that many 'hardcore' gamers. Not that it really matters, because its just a label that doesn't mean shit. I mean, if you have to label yourself as hardcore to put your opinions above others... well, fuck off.
I like to believe that TRUE hardcore gamers, have the ability to hold back elitist opinions and not shit on other peoples fun because when it comes down to it, if someone is having fun... thats what its all about.
If someone who has only played Halo 3 for the past 2-3 years claims it is the best fps game ever, just smile and nod. Let them be... unless they ask your opinion. Then its time for both barrels, cause they asked for it >:-)
Thing is, most of the people who call themselves hardcore gamers come a lot closer to fitting the 3rd part of bustaballs' definition, meaning that it's all about "mature" titles, which these days basically means "action movies in game form". To me, that's the opposite of what "hardcore" gamer should mean. If love videogames, it should be because they are like videogames, not movies.
But that's irrelevant,because if the majority of the people that identify as "hardcore" aren't my idea of "hardcore", it does me no good to use the label. It's like if my word for green was "red". Either you learn to that everyone else's "red" is green, or you just stop talking about colors.
While I don't believe there are hardcore or casual games I do believe there are hardcore and casual gamers. It's just casual gamers flood buggy crap like Gears of War 2. Yes I said it. Gears of War 2 is casual gaming. Hardcore gamers are more likely to play something like Animal Crossing (GC) for long periods of time (6+ months).
"1: A person who puts a great deal of time into playing and researching video games."
Bingo. That's my definition of hardcore gamer. Someone who is dedicated to the hobby and expects more from their games (Innovation, Quality, Content, etc).
Also it's not that the Wii doesn't have "mature" games or "hardcore" games. It's more the fact that the Wii has shitty games. When stuff like The Conduit is hyped like a great FPS you really need to wonder about the platform. Don't start labeling off pieces of shit as "hardcore" games.
The only Wii game I'm looking forward to is MadWorld... And no not because of the blood. Rather because it's from Platinum Games (Formerly my favourite developer Clover) and I love the style / music.
[i]"Decent Games Worthy To Buy Used or Rent:
...
SSXBlur"[/i]
No one should every buy or rent that piece of ****. At most buy the soundtrack online as JunkieXL did an excellent job. The core game is an insult to SSX fans and the worst EA game I own.
See this is why people hate the Wii. Stuff like SSX Blur is labeled as decent when it's the worst title in the series, buggy, a rehash of old content, has terrible controls, looks worse than the PS2 SSX games, etc. People consider the Wii casual because Wii games in general have lower standards.
There just aren't many gems at all on the Wii. Even the main series games like Super Mario Galaxy, Brawl, and Twilight Princess have been dumbed down. To be fair Galaxy had it's moments but the linear level design completely killed any desire I had to replay it.
@Iron Dragon - I generally put games I thought were fair but not too terrible into the "rent" section. Obviously, not everyone is going to agree with my picks. I don't think that means Wii games are any worse than another platform's games.
Also, you didn't like the main 1st party titles? I though Galaxy was THE BEST Mario game since SMB3. Most of my friends agree with me on that one. =( Sad to see someone fairly disappointed in that game. I dumped at least 50 hours into it.
By that definition, the types of games that are typically considered "hardcore" are not that at all. If a game sells millions of copies then its not niche. That's textbook mainstream appeal. Gears of War, Halo, Madden, World of Warcraft, Super Mario, Legend of Zelda... those are mainstream games. They'll see a massive overlap of consumers from the enthusiastic gamer to the infrequent dabbler. Those kinds of games will definitely have "hardcore" appeal, but that's only because they appeal on such a grand scale.
Even if a game doesn't reach platinum status (and really, very few do), that doesn't give it hardcore status off the bat. It's nothing to do with difficulty or learning curves, although the harder a game is the greater the risk of scaring off potential players. Katamari Damacy is an extremely simple game, but you would agree that it is very niche. No, it's about who the developers and publishers hope to target and who to exclude. The wider the net a company casts, the more likely they are trying to reach beyond a hardcore audience.