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"And yes, I understand how silly it seems to write about this on the very site that employs Jim Sterling"
FYI: Not silly at all! We welcome any type of articles/comments. :)
FYI: Not silly at all! We welcome any type of articles/comments. :)
Sensibility? On my Destructoids? It is more likely than you think.
You're quite right, and quite level-headed---please, keep it up. I'd like to see this approach on the front-page articles more often.
You're quite right, and quite level-headed---please, keep it up. I'd like to see this approach on the front-page articles more often.
See the thing is, Duke Nukem is/has always been pretty crass and immature, so if I heard a woman saying she found the game mysoginistic, I'd probably think "Yeah, you're got a point..."
I thought most of the post either quoted or summed up the Eurogamer interview. As for Jim's opinions I frankly welcome them. If I wanted a straight copy/pasta post and didn't want to hear what he thought I would've just read it at Eurogamer directly. Copy/pasta posts aren't why I go to Dtoid over other sites.
The whole wanting feminist groups to attack DNF just seems like a stupid marketing stunt, a desperate ploy to get more attention akin to the glory days of trainwreck marketing from back when Duke Nukem was relevant. Reading Pitchford's piece it sounds like they expected criticism by now and had a big marketing strategy in place for it, and when it didn't happen he did this interview.
The whole wanting feminist groups to attack DNF just seems like a stupid marketing stunt, a desperate ploy to get more attention akin to the glory days of trainwreck marketing from back when Duke Nukem was relevant. Reading Pitchford's piece it sounds like they expected criticism by now and had a big marketing strategy in place for it, and when it didn't happen he did this interview.
Love ya gurl but I gotta say I stick by the "publicity stunt" reaction. It's just...you can do so much better as a feminist organization to promote your cause than point at a videogame. I don't think Pitchford honestly believes that any good can come out of it. That or he's got a very limited scope.
Can a feminist organization bring awareness to their cause through pointing at Duke Nukem? Well sure. I mean it's not wholly impossible but it is unlikely. And further should that be how a feminist organization exposes their cause beyond those already dedicated? I don't think so. It seems fickle and it's a rather trivial means to an end.
Even if Pitchford could propose an argument, and even if he found some ray of logic with which it could stand (and it does have that small ray), I think at the end of the day it's still just a call to controversy. He justified it...mmm...well enough but I still am inclined to think he wouldn't have said it for any other reason than to boost the chances of publicity.
Maybe I'm being cynical and I'm wrong. Totally likely. But I still can't figure that any true good could come out of what he said and I don't think it takes much to see how that idea could backfire. There's about 10 ways that can go right and 100 ways that can go wrong. BUT it'd push some units.
Can a feminist organization bring awareness to their cause through pointing at Duke Nukem? Well sure. I mean it's not wholly impossible but it is unlikely. And further should that be how a feminist organization exposes their cause beyond those already dedicated? I don't think so. It seems fickle and it's a rather trivial means to an end.
Even if Pitchford could propose an argument, and even if he found some ray of logic with which it could stand (and it does have that small ray), I think at the end of the day it's still just a call to controversy. He justified it...mmm...well enough but I still am inclined to think he wouldn't have said it for any other reason than to boost the chances of publicity.
Maybe I'm being cynical and I'm wrong. Totally likely. But I still can't figure that any true good could come out of what he said and I don't think it takes much to see how that idea could backfire. There's about 10 ways that can go right and 100 ways that can go wrong. BUT it'd push some units.
@ScottyG : This post is not about Sterling's opinion but more about how he misinterpreted Pitchford's intentions.
Bev? Is that you?! Must be since somebody finally turned your 360 off after something like two or three days straight!
You know, I wish Game Journalists Are Incompetent Fuckwits wrote about misleading titles in this way, you know, instead of the usual unconstructive way.
Yeah, I'm with Scotty (again today?) about the artificial bad publicity. He's basically got the ball rolling like EA did with "Your Mom Hates Dead Space 2". Sad fact of the matter is, you look deeper into these things about bad publicity and you'll find how all set-up well in advance. There was a brilliant piece on Charlie Brooker's Newswipe that showed you how it was done. If I could find You Tube link, I'd put it up.
The thing is, I don't think Jim's blog helps per se. He (however directly or indirectly) adds to the situation with that title because he ultimately knows the score. He's not stupid. He's getting something out of naff publicity like this for the website. It's a trade-off that he's happy with. That's how these things always work because they're so inconsequential six months to a year down the line.
Though I do admit to wondering if if he's ramped up his selective crusades to make amends for the "femnazi slut" fiasco (which he doesn't need to). I doubt he's done it intentionally, just one of those things that happens. Maybe I am just reading too much into that.
The main gist is if this is all going to make a difference when all the parties involved are probably going to go at this half-arsed.
You know, I wish Game Journalists Are Incompetent Fuckwits wrote about misleading titles in this way, you know, instead of the usual unconstructive way.
Yeah, I'm with Scotty (again today?) about the artificial bad publicity. He's basically got the ball rolling like EA did with "Your Mom Hates Dead Space 2". Sad fact of the matter is, you look deeper into these things about bad publicity and you'll find how all set-up well in advance. There was a brilliant piece on Charlie Brooker's Newswipe that showed you how it was done. If I could find You Tube link, I'd put it up.
The thing is, I don't think Jim's blog helps per se. He (however directly or indirectly) adds to the situation with that title because he ultimately knows the score. He's not stupid. He's getting something out of naff publicity like this for the website. It's a trade-off that he's happy with. That's how these things always work because they're so inconsequential six months to a year down the line.
Though I do admit to wondering if if he's ramped up his selective crusades to make amends for the "femnazi slut" fiasco (which he doesn't need to). I doubt he's done it intentionally, just one of those things that happens. Maybe I am just reading too much into that.
The main gist is if this is all going to make a difference when all the parties involved are probably going to go at this half-arsed.
Despite my distaste for a few things Sterling has said, particularly recently, I don't see anything all that slanted about his sum-up of the Pitchford comments. The title of the article, perhaps, I can see. But, even still, one could read the Pitchford comments as a come-at-me-bro statement and that would actually be a legitimate interpretation. He's taking a very strong angle. Rather than putting down any portion of the feminist movement with spite and counter-comments, he challenges. Whether it's really a challenge to attack or simply to adjust your viewpoint is up to the person reading, I suppose.
@Stevil I know! People shouldn't agree with me under any circumstances! To be honest it's kind of scary.
Actually, any feminist group that has a real problem with Duke Nukem Forever would be ATTACKING the game. What else would they do? Praise it? Discuss it with it's creators or supporters? No.
They'd post a bunch of bullshit rants on their blogs and websites for the attention, and if they aren't satisfied then they'll call some news channels and try to get invited onto a show or two. They'll get some donations from any women crazy enough to give a shit, and then they will move on.
As for Jim, I see no issue with what he said. I see major news outlets do this all the time. So long as he didn't put the "Feminist organizations welcome to attack duke" part in quotes in the headline, I see nothing wrong. If the phrase had been within quotes, then I might have actually expected to see Pitchford say that somewhere.
They'd post a bunch of bullshit rants on their blogs and websites for the attention, and if they aren't satisfied then they'll call some news channels and try to get invited onto a show or two. They'll get some donations from any women crazy enough to give a shit, and then they will move on.
As for Jim, I see no issue with what he said. I see major news outlets do this all the time. So long as he didn't put the "Feminist organizations welcome to attack duke" part in quotes in the headline, I see nothing wrong. If the phrase had been within quotes, then I might have actually expected to see Pitchford say that somewhere.
The front page titles are generally meant to grab attention... and they work. Meh, I have no problem with this as he did link to the original interview for people to read if they want to.
As others have noted, there was the whole "feminazi" situation that occured with Jim and it did bring out how the term "mysogynist" is really thrown around way too much.
In terms of the game, I think even the most ardent feminist groups must see that the game is a satire. If anything, I would think it would be men's groups that might be upset over the extreme stereotyping of men. In the end though, it's comedic effect... not unlike Austin Powers. :)
Great to see you blogging again though!!
As others have noted, there was the whole "feminazi" situation that occured with Jim and it did bring out how the term "mysogynist" is really thrown around way too much.
In terms of the game, I think even the most ardent feminist groups must see that the game is a satire. If anything, I would think it would be men's groups that might be upset over the extreme stereotyping of men. In the end though, it's comedic effect... not unlike Austin Powers. :)
Great to see you blogging again though!!
I do think Jim has been a bit "tabloid" lately, but honestly how can DNF be used to further feminism? I still don't quite understand this, other than pointing out the (obviously satirical) misogyny.
Anyway have a fap.
Anyway have a fap.
Don't say such terrible things Guncannon! Women are more than welcome to blog... about fashion, makeup, sandwich making, and celebrity gossip.
We have a very limited space for our headlines and as such, struggle to get the message of the article across, and catch a reader's eye, with an incredibly restricted space. If I had my way, I'd have said a lot more in the headline than I did.
Same goes for the quote snippet. I did not deliberately use a fraction of Pitchford's post. I took what I felt were the most pertinent comments and linked to the rest, because I only get so much space. I did not manipulate his comments. I presented what he said, and then provided my own opinion, as my job dictates. Two separate stances, his and mine, were presented. I never said, "Pitchford says feminists are dumb" or anything like that. I'd never WANT to portray all feminists like that, because only a handful of them are dumb (like all groups and people, really).
Your main beef seems to be with the headline, as you more or less agreed with my actual opinion at the end. If you were offended or felt it was misleading, that was not my attention, so sorry for that. I went ahead and changed it, since my aim wasn't to suggest that feminists are inherently a group of aggressors.
Hopefully that clears up some stuff.
Same goes for the quote snippet. I did not deliberately use a fraction of Pitchford's post. I took what I felt were the most pertinent comments and linked to the rest, because I only get so much space. I did not manipulate his comments. I presented what he said, and then provided my own opinion, as my job dictates. Two separate stances, his and mine, were presented. I never said, "Pitchford says feminists are dumb" or anything like that. I'd never WANT to portray all feminists like that, because only a handful of them are dumb (like all groups and people, really).
Your main beef seems to be with the headline, as you more or less agreed with my actual opinion at the end. If you were offended or felt it was misleading, that was not my attention, so sorry for that. I went ahead and changed it, since my aim wasn't to suggest that feminists are inherently a group of aggressors.
Hopefully that clears up some stuff.
"They'd post a bunch of bullshit rants on their blogs and websites for the attention, and if they aren't satisfied then they'll call some news channels and try to get invited onto a show or two. They'll get some donations from any women crazy enough to give a shit, and then they will move on."
Unfortunately, sometimes the word misogynistic comes to mind, and it's an appropriate description. Very enjoyable blog, however I fear it will fall on deaf ears for much of the audience around this sausagefest.
Unfortunately, sometimes the word misogynistic comes to mind, and it's an appropriate description. Very enjoyable blog, however I fear it will fall on deaf ears for much of the audience around this sausagefest.
Whether or not they were being genuine about using Duke Nukem Forever as an example in favor of feminism I hardly think it would be in anyone's best interest. You don't necessarily need to attack the developers directly, but an organization would likely use this game as an example of what's wrong with media. Frankly Duke Nukem IS pretty brainless and any organization calling it out as such would have every right to do so. That sort of attention would probably taint the public's views of games in general.
I never understood the appeal of Duke Nukem's character and why so many people seem to idealize him. Seriously, I've talked to a number of people who are buying Duke Nukem Forever "just because Duke is awesome. I don't care if the game's gonna be good or not." There's a lot of people out there who thing Duke is just awesome and I can't think of a single video game character I find more boring and unappealing. Maybe that's his appeal. He's the definition of a male power fantasy, only completely lacking in any character. In theory any male could put themselves in his shoes while playing the game since he's so completely void of personality
Is there anything technically wrong with that? Not really, but I'd rather Duke not help make the world think that games are only for slack jawed idiots, so I'd really rather Pitchford not invite anybody to talk about him to a public who could very easily be swayed to see him as harmful.
I never understood the appeal of Duke Nukem's character and why so many people seem to idealize him. Seriously, I've talked to a number of people who are buying Duke Nukem Forever "just because Duke is awesome. I don't care if the game's gonna be good or not." There's a lot of people out there who thing Duke is just awesome and I can't think of a single video game character I find more boring and unappealing. Maybe that's his appeal. He's the definition of a male power fantasy, only completely lacking in any character. In theory any male could put themselves in his shoes while playing the game since he's so completely void of personality
Is there anything technically wrong with that? Not really, but I'd rather Duke not help make the world think that games are only for slack jawed idiots, so I'd really rather Pitchford not invite anybody to talk about him to a public who could very easily be swayed to see him as harmful.
Nice, and respectful, blog - and a good response from Mr Sterling up there too.
It's nice to see mature, non-insulting dialogue between people on the internet. It's such a depressing rarity these games. In fact, and as Hamza summed up perfectly, it's the reason I come to Destructoid.
It's nice to see mature, non-insulting dialogue between people on the internet. It's such a depressing rarity these games. In fact, and as Hamza summed up perfectly, it's the reason I come to Destructoid.
