I saw this story spammed across all the major news sites today:
http://kotaku.com/5301071/jimmy-page-and-jack-white-arent-fond-of-music-games
If you haven't seen it, I'll spare you the story. Jack White of the White Stripes and Jimmy Page of Led Zepplin said the following about music rhythm games:
"You think of the drum part that John Bonham did on Led Zeppelin's first track on the first album, Good Times Bad Times," Page said. "How many drummers in the world can play that part, let alone on Christmas morning?"
Ok, I see his point, but he's obviously missing the point of the genre. The point of music GAMES is to PRETEND you are John Bonham, not to BE John Bonham. Otherwise we'd be in a band. Making real music. Some of us professionals don't have time for all that.
Then, the other guy (I sort of hate him; hated him before now, really hate him now) said the following:
"It's depressing to have a label come and tell you that [Guitar Hero] is how kids are learning about music and experiencing music." While he added that he doesn't try to limit "which format people should get their music in…if you have to be in a video game to get in front of them, that's a little sad."
You know what, Zack White?
That may seem an over-aggressive response, but it's people that have such a limited and narrow worldview that really gets my blood boiling. What.the.fuck.do.you.care HOW people get your music as long as you get it in front of them? From sooooo many standpoints, his comment comes across as nothing more than egotistical, elitist bullshit. Let's break it down with the outline points:
1) You're a musician. Your job is to create something (music) and get it out to as many people as possible.
2) You're a businessman. You've already sold out, what do you care if you get another revenue stream?
3) You're a PR person. You have spoken negatively about a huge and growing cross-culture of fans, and a genre that introduces people to your music.
4) How could you possibly think, in the society that we live in today, that exposing people to music is bad no matter HOW it's done? With our schools consistently shrinking their programs for bands and music, as an active musician yourself, if you cared about your craft and truly wanted to see it grow, you'd encourage learning about it in every form and way possible.
Instead of sitting back behind your wall of RIAA nazis, look at bands and business models that aggressively seek to get their music in front of as many as possible. Reznor and NIN (whom I admittedly love) have done an excellent job of this. Releasing albums online AS WELL as traditional bricks and mortars, but to boot aggressively pricing their product to the point that it is TOO CUMBERSOME AND TOO MUCH OF A HASSLE TO PIRATE.
But, let's steer this back off the music industry's outmoded and outdated forms of thinking. We were talking about how Zack White *should* want everyone to have and hear his music.
But instead, he holds himself to an elitist pedestal placing himself above all those *pshaw* 'sad gamers' who happen to probably overlap with his fans, are mothers and fathers of the next generation of children yet-to-be-exposed-to-his-music and create more revenue streams that will allow him to retire a wealthy older man.
Page, I can see, doesn't get the point. I suppose what irks me even more is that Gamespot titled their piece [url='http://www.gamespot.com/news/blogs/sidebar/909182374/26930598/rock-legends-rail-against-guitar-hero.html?&part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6212381]Rock Legends rail against Guitar Hero'[/url]
Gamespot, what the fuck are you smoking? Page? Legend. White? Not even close. Come see me in 30 years and we'll see if anyone gives two shits about what Zack White has to say.
Now if you want to compare and contrast an educated statement of why not to have your songs in a music game, look at Prince. He cited his main reason for not wanting to list his songs as 'principle,' with the following explanation:
"I just think it's more important that kids learn how to actually play the guitar. It's a tough instrument--it's not easy. It took me a long time, and it was frustrating at first. And you just have to stick with it, and it's cool for people who don't have time to learn the chords or ain't interested in it, but to play music is one of the greatest things."
Now that, my friends, is an educated statement. He chose to think about his message and principles, and deliver something that stuck to his guns, but wasn't derogatory towards anyone.
I, for one, won't be purchasing any of the White Stripes tracks that evenutally WILL one day come to a music genre game. Not because I don't enjoy a few of the songs, but because I have a habit of using my money NOT in a way that supports douchebags.
By the way, if you doubt the validity of my personal opinion of Jack White, feel free to follow along with the example picture and flowchart provided.
that is all.
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That flowchart called Teen Wolf a douchebag, so everything you said in this blog is no longer valid. I'm sorry, I don't make the rules.
Teen wolf was actually a giant douche bag. I mean I'm surprised no one injected him with Parkinson's right then and there.
Anyway, I hate how these musicians keep speaking against rhythm games, yet they don't seemed bothered by the fact of buying hookers or blow with that sweet Harmonix/Activision money.
Is the drumming in Good Times, Bad Times really that hard to play? It doesn't sound very complicated to my mostly untrained ears. I've known quite a few drummers, and I'm fairly sure they could all play it with a bit of practice.
MrSadistic, come talk to me after you play air guitar and do backflips on top of a moving vehicle.
It seems like Jack White forgot about Singstar Rocks. Fucking Blue Orchid anyone?
Umm, I love Jack White...therefore I never read this.
" Give me a keg of BEER. "
Sorry but Teen Wolf is not a douchebag. Char is correct.
I rank what they have to say about video games about as much as they would rank what I have to say about playing music professionally.
In other words, neither of us would know what we are talking about.
I don't really appreciate them saying this stuff, but it's not that big of a deal. I mean, they have the right to feel that way.
And honestly, if they are willing to walk away from cash, it's their loss.
But you won't find me saying a bad thing about Jimmy Page either way.
Jack White is a god. Jimmy Page is a god's god. Guitar hero is sort of boring.
Jack White should have brought up how the drumming prowess of his sister Meg wouldn't work in a music rhythm game because it's utter shit and a one armed blind monkey could play it in the dark. *Shudders*
P.S. She sucks at drumming.
P.P.S. The white stripes suck at music.
And The White Stripes are in Guitar Hero 5. I guess he doesn't hate money.
Another music artist hates music games? Oh well, its not like he's the first, he won't be the last either.
Guitar hero, a double sided sword...
On the plus side, it's been a great way for older artist and newer artist to get exposure to a vast range of people.
On the negative side, being in a band it sort of pisses me off to how distored and fucked up being "in a band" is, lemme explain
*The VH1 & MTV rock and roll life*
-you'll make tons of money
-you'll bang tons of women
-record labels will pay for everything
*The REAL band life*
-You will be poor most of the time, and if you do make money it will be going towards paying off debt
-Any money your record label gives you, they expect every single penny back.
-you will NOT get to shower
I could go on for days, but it drives me nuts how distorted the whole "be a rockstar" thing is. Some people have no clue, and when your exploiting it to kids just getting into music they'll believe almost anything.
//end comment
I agree with them about it being wrong that kids are playing these games instead of taking up instrements, but their facts are not even grounded in truth it just sounds like 2 bitter musicians whining about technilogical progress.
And for the record, jimmy paige is a great songwriter but the most over rated guitar player ever. kinda the same thing with pete townsend, awesome songs, but not a guitar hero.
Fact: Zepplin rules
/that is all
i saw white stripes at a festival once, and they sucked. i hate their music, and i hate jack white. i also have no love for guitard hero.
he's probably just whining because when you surround the white stripes' music with other bands music it makes it more obvious that they suck.
The White Stripes are just angry that they can't release a free album, have it download millions of times, and then a few months down the line, release a paid version of the same album and have it sell over 200K copies.
Like Nine Inch Nails. =D
I think it's sad that kids are playing Call of Duty instead of really shooting real people.
I think it's sad that kids are playing Forza instead of racing real motor cars.
I think it's sad kids are playing GTA instead of beating up real hookers and taking their money.
I think it's sad that kids are playing weird Japanese sex games instead of harassing real women.
Do you see, stupid musicians, just how much SHIT you are talking? Jesus, is it that hard to understand that people play games for entertainment and escapism. Music games aren't about replacing real instruments any more than people play racing games as an alternative to driving.
No Timmeh, I don't think that argument works.
That flowchart doesn't know what a wife beater is apparently, it has nothing to do with hitting your wife.
So I guess the guy who made it must be a douchebag.
@ TIMMEH
Do you have any idea how rational that is, lemme put it this way
MUSIC DOES NOT KILL PEOPLE!
MUSIC DOES NOT RAPE PEOPLE!
MUSIC HAS NEVER RAN ANYONE OVER!
On the other hand, people spend years on top of years getting skilled at what they play. Yet it takes barley any effort to kill some one or fire a gun.
You sir have just made my brain shit it's pants.
Fuck
The point is, people play these games for fun and entertainment, not as some kind of training or an alternative to playing an actual instrument like you see a lot of musicians bang on about, as mentioned in the blog post.
Was that so difficult to understand?
No Timmeh, still not working.
Well let's see. I love the White Stripes, Zep is fine with me and GH/Rock Band are cool.
When the two meet? Who cares.
They're morons.
Lets have some Facts here:
1. Guitar Hero DOES ignite peoples interest in Music and playing it.
2. Skill at Guitar Hero =/= Real Guitar Skill. The note charts are usually misrepresentative of the movements you make when playing a song.
3. Being good at Guitar Hero will help you learn in the beginning.
Flexibility, Power Chord Shaping.
4. Learning Instruments is frustrating, and full of disappointment.
You need self belief to play it. You will suck. You're never happy with what you've done.
When Kirk Hammett comes off stage, he'll be thinking about the notes he missed, not the ones he hit. And he's a career Musician.
5. These guys are knobheads. I guarantee in 20 years, there will be professional Guitarists whose first experience was Guitar Hero.
6."You think of the drum part that John Bonham did on Led Zeppelin's first track on the first album, Good Times Bad Times," Page said. "How many drummers in the world can play that part, let alone on Christmas morning?"
Millions. Several Million.
Playing Covers is easy. Does Jimmy Page think playing that makes you an awesome drummer?
I can play Songs like Fade to Black/Run to the Hills/The Trooper on my Guitar? Does that make me amazing? Does it fuck. It means I've learnt those songs. Jimmy Page should be ignored at all times.
@Bulkmailer
Reading this blog was worth it for yer comments :)
@balth
A few of my mates that are in bands would agree, some wouldn't, it doesn't bother me too much either way.
And yeah I like Jack White, Page and Teen-Wolf so my opinion counts for feck all :P
I don't like White Stripes. I'm not very fond of Led Zeppelin either. The Who, now that's another story.
I care about their game opinions almost as much as I care what Peter Moore has on his iPod. Which is to say not at all.
Also, Teen Wolf rocks.
I purchased Guitar Hero back in 05' when I was 12. Before then, I never really appreciated music. Guitar Hero blew my little pre-teen mind with so many awesome songs that I had never heard, or would have heard at the time. I'm listening to your music because of Guitar Hero, and so are a lot of kids that age that are transitioning from Kidz Bop or whatever to real music. Now if you don't want to share your music with a new generation by means that they can not only enjoy, but interact with, then go right ahead.
...wait, is there a reason you continually called him Zack White in the last half of the write-up?
Was that a joke I didn't grasp?
Jimmy Page can say whatever the fuck he wants.
Prince is so awesuuum <3
Teen Wolf was a douchebag after he first got his wolf powers and abused them to show off and bang the slutty blonde, but at the end of the movie he learned a valuable lesson and banged the sweet girl-next-door-but-still hot chick who'd loved him all along. And then he got Parkinsons.
All 3 of them are right. Making music is a million times better than pretending to be a musician.
There's nothing wrong with Rock Band and Guitar Hero, but it ridiculous that some people act like they are actually performing something when they play it.
Steel Squirrel pretty much summed it up perfectly for me. I've been playing music for about 5 years now, and going to something like Rock Band is just nowhere near as rewarding as the real thing. I don't think that Page and White are insulting the music game genre, but rather they'd like to see more kids and people picking up instruments and writing and playing music, which I can completely agree with.
The white Stripes have a song on Guitar Hero 2. I'm sure Jack burns the royalty cheque.
@daxelman: Win. Just like NIN.
@jimbo: I would say he's 50/50. Mxy nailed the entire synopsis (your astute observations are made of win and awesomesauce, mxy)
@mistergrieves: I uh, probably just got confused due to sheer blinding rage? *waves hand in arc* You saw the correct name. Even now, since I am too lazy to go back and re-edit.
@takeshi: I actually love Zepplin, and like I said, I think he was more not understanding of the genre than dissing it. White Stripes douchebag was just being an elitist douchebag prick.
@kris: everyone is entitled to their opinions! I actually like teen-wolf, too, but I agree with mxy's assessment.
too soon?
Page's problem isnt with the games (or shouldnt be), its with the people who are getting the idea that they can play the instrument by loading up Easy mode and getting through a song with 70%. I think he'd give a bit more respect to someone who can play the games on Expert, as long theyre still well aware that it aint the real thing (although some songs on the drums are pretty darn accurate ).
Jack White, on the other hand... its SAD that kids are getting into music via video games? Hate to break it to you Jack, but theyre not getting into music (not this kind, at least...) any other way. Try watching the average music channel, or listening to the popular radio stations; I'm damn thankful that Guitar Hero came along and made Rock music relevant again.
lol Well played, Balth. Well played.