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Wow, what an insane amount of replies for a "mere" community blogger.
I've got to say thanks for actually thinking these things through and seeing what the point of many of those gaming girl groups are.(They say: we are girls in gaming, lets get accepting by forming together and bringing strength in numbers! They do: all the girls go into the groups that have no males and are further segregated.) Quite frankly, its hard to find people that actually think to this depth when they are contemplating an action(in this example, to join or not to join those girl gamer leagues). And, (sexist comment on the way) as hard as it is to find males that think this way, its 2 or 3 times as hard to find females that do.
In conclusion, the main point of my often meandering reply(with its overuse of parenthetical statements) is thank you for using your brain.
And btw, you always blame people for what they do, despite what demand or need society puts on them. It may be viewed as me just putting the blame on the women since I'm a guy, but I just feel people are always accountable for their actions, despite outside influence.
Eh.
I think that I may have a different paradigm then you all do for giving credit. Basically, if you play games and kick ass, you get respect. Gender doesn't really matter (although it does seem to me that a lot of the "girl gamers" that I've run into in the past really didn't play that well; possibly girlfriends paying back boyfriends who went Salsa dancing?). That's what is great about people like Athy over here; being CH1X0RZ doesn't mean anything, other than having a different scale for measuring shoe sizes. Gaming ability is not governed by gender, only time and effort put into the games. I'm pretty good at Halo, R6:V, GoW, and a myriad of other games, both console and computer. I know a lot of women -as in over 18- who play games competitively over a broad spectrum of games. I think that the Female Gamer stereotype is something that we as a community need to stomp out, both the ladies and the gents.
And as for the Token Hot Female Gamer thing; we live in a society that rewards such behaviour. Solution? Start a colony in the middle of nowhere, and lay down some strick fuckin' rules. AMIRITE? You'll always see people who get to the top by other means, and it's something that everyone will have to live with. The fact of the matter is the gamer culture is still predominately Male-Driven, with Games like Dead or Alive that sport some interestingly dis-proportionate ...errr...qualities. Basically, it's just something we'll have to life with.
But see, to fix the problem, we need a major effort on the part of all gamers. Unfortuneatly, many of which are the kinds of people who buy the newest version of Madden to stay cool, and are highly resistant to all forms or common sense.
So to sum it up, if you want into the industry, kick the hell out of the pretty chick who plays CS in some GoW. Seriously, whats with people's fascination with playing games almost 10 years old competitively?
Also,.......cocks?
I'm proud of Dtoid today. A gender related issue that actually has a lot of thought behind the posts and responses. Good job kids!
My views have changed a LOT throughout my time in gaming.
What it boils down to is this: If you got it, flaunt it. If you don't, find something you are good at and own it. If it's not hurting you, don't worry about it. If you are offended, look the other way. Above all... sex sells.
It's assinine to think that we, as a gaming culture, are in some sort of bubble ESPECIALLY due to the fact that this is still a male dominated market. Is it right? That's your choice to decide but it is what it is.
Now, I will say that cow towing IN game to girls who claim they are gamers is bull shit. Giving women more money or prizing because they have boobs is stupid. IF you are in a game... earn your titles.
If you are in the media... then work it! I mean, come on! It's the entertainment industry folks... sex/power speaks wonders. Call a spade a spade and respect others for what it is they are doing. Models are models. Gamers are gamers. Models can be gamers just as gamers can be models. Everyone is just trying to do their thing.
Does it matter?
boba...
What is the difference? You're coming across like a jackass. Even more than I am, and that says something. You need a PHD nowadays to make a commentary about games? WTF does anyones background affect the statement they make?
Nice job jackass. Jackass.
congrats on getting on the front page lauren :P
welcome to the exclusive club for people with community blogs that got on the front page.
Nex I have two words for you: Pull Out.
@Nex
This might be why all the ladies dont think your single!!!! lol
I can't say for sure that I'm taking this at a completely different angle, given that I can only read so many comments before my eyes start to glaze over, but I think atheistium is attacking the wrong slime here.
Pretty girls who like to throw pictures of themselves around on the internet are hardly the problem. Hey, I'm totally with you on the whole 'showing your body off on the internet for attention is dumb' thing, but this is hardly some phenomenon unique to gaming; look at half the MySpace and Facebook pages out there. There is always going to be some overlap of women who like the attention with nearly ANY hobby.
You're asking for respect when there is none to be found. What these girls are doing is little different then the women who appear on Maxim, or go on "The Bachelor." There's a MUCH deeper issue with what they are doing (and I'm not saying that issue is good or bad) that trumps video games here.
Perfect example, take your Anna Kournikova's in tennis. There is some attention granted to them because they are attractive women willing to pose in magazines. Are women in tennis being held back because of women like her? No. Not really. Good looks don't make you a good athlete.
There was some point in the history of tennis where guys stopped saying 'aww, look at those women! I bet they don't know it's called a racket!" and started taking them seriously.
I fully agree that right now, women AREN'T taken seriously when it comes to video games. The thing is that the women who I guess, casually game, and flaunt some T&A for attention aren't holding your average woman gamer back. It will probably take some combination of a cultural shift plus more recognition from developers, but my point is that ten, twenty, umpteen years from now, women will be taken seriously in video games, and the barely legal women who wish to have a small male cult following will still exist.
- Eddie
Whether you become successful at what you want, it shouldn't matter how. You got what you want with out doing any thing bad, you can just use what you have. You shouldn't worry about what other people think.
I try not to pass judgement on other people not out of some religious theory, but because I care about their image about as much as I care what they think of me: Very little (notice, I didn't say I don't, we all do)
Chobot licks a PSP, Summa overhypes some non-news, Workman has an "in" (and has a catch line). Everyone has to do something attention grabbing sooner or later, if they want to get attention. Once you get it are you able to deal with the negatives.
STFU AND GET IN THE KITCHEN!
huh!? girls can play games?...
sorry, I just woke up from a coma, let me go back to it...
btw, wake me up when a girl actually wins first place on a game...
Well said Ashdate. :)
I really don't like articles about girl gamers....just PLAY GAMES! Don't pose in a slutty matter or show off your tits online for attention or whatever reason and you wont have a lot to worry about. Guy give you hard time about gaming....just prove him you don't suck and play games. Once again JUST PLAY GAMES.
I admit I haven't read this yet cause I am tired and i don't know the subject but still. And no I am not a girl gamer hater.
That is just my thought on girl gamers...
STFUAJPG indeed.
I agree with the person who has titties.
No, but seriously, I agree 100%. Good post. I have nothing productive to add.
Great points Ashdate. I agree whole heartidly!
*yawn*
Yeah, being a girl gamer is hard. Being a girl in general is harder than being male. Life did deal you a set of shittier cards than males. I get it.
Life's tough. It will be tough when you wake up tomorrow as well. Playing games and realizing some whore is trying to sell herself by saying "I WUV GAMEZ" won't really change matters. The good looking people will still try to sell every aspect of themselves that they can sell (after all, it's a well sought commodity). The only problem here is that now gaming is becoming popular, that aspect of life is starting to seep in here as well.
The sun rises again. World's still a piece of shit in many ways. Today it is with the added pleasure of having yourself misrepresented by a bunch of attention whores. Tomorrow it'll be something else.
Buy a bullshit filter, is my recommendation. The rest you have to live with. I'm not all that crazy about being misrepresented by the guy yelling "OMG GURL GAJMER!" but since we're both males, I'm as strong as my weakest link, which is him. All I can do, is when the time comes, is not say: "OMIGOSH BOOBZ!".
A feat that won't be hard to accomplish, luckily. Till then all I'll be doing is playing games with my mouth shut, not taking naked pictures of myself with a controller stuck up my ass.
I took the time to read all of the above. I agree with you Lauren, it is spelled Lara.
Also, awesome read. Agreed.
Another good iteration on the topic. But the point is lost a bit. These girly clans and groups are not usually thought up by the members. They are the brainchildren of corporations who know that if they take a bunch of attractive women and hand them game controllers, they will make money.
It's the same with any marketing system for any product or service since man stepped down from the tree and went "OMG BOOBZ". We will always have these Hot Chick Clans because they guarantee more money to the companies. The most you can do is ignore them and not buy their products.
Blackdove said the rest of what I was thinking... Except you can swing it around towards:
Being [enter you race, religion, color, creed, nationality, sexual orientation, etc.] is harder than being a white protestant male, unless you are a white protestant male in the middle east, a catholic area, a communist country, asia, africa, professional sports, the music industry, a free medical clinic, etc... or if you are a white protestant male who is disabled or fat.
Generally, life is hard for everybody, one way or another. If the biggest complaint we can have is about sexual exploitation in the videogame industry than we have pretty good lives.
BTW, there is a inequality in the work place. However, looks (i.e. physical appearance) affects promotions and pay raises at much for men as it does women. Go figure.
Actually, Farktoid, that's false. The only all girl clan that is corporate is Fragdolls. The others were all member created and have since gotten corporate sponsors since their creation.
NEX HAS A WIFE????
That post was nothing short of awesome.
I'm a heterosexual guy gamer. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that hot women is unpleasing to my eye. Thar be biology in these dem braincells(amongst other places) that make sure of that.
However, I am turned off by insincerity(I call that my BS lobe).
At no point seeing these posts, articles, etc...did I ever -ever- think these women were either gamers or geeks any more then your typical booth babe. And that, to me was a turn off in the same way as if a hot chick were to approach me the day I win the lottery.
Besides, I have fun when facing a tough opponent. Not a "Oh my god...I'm like, so not aiming this rocket thingy. Tihihihi".
And sadly, it appears the gamers market is establishing the same standards big media has already set in the magazine and movie market. I sincerely feel bad for your gender and hope that puking your lunch doesn't become a prerequisite for joining a frag match(it would hard to make fun of fragging someone if it looks like they've had as much to eat as a poor Nigerian hobo...I'd probably fetch em' a sammich instead...not so fun).
In any case, I personally prefer a girl with flaws(well, within reason...a penis would be a deal breaker). I find it adds a cuteness and 'humanity' to em:)
I've never been able to put myself in the headspace of the "ZOMG GURLS!!!" guys. Growing up, I've always had female and male friends who've shared the same interests as myself. Most of them gamed to a certain degree, whether it was retro titles they grew up with or playing Halo on XBL. I've never understood why some women find it so necessary to shout "Hey, girls play games too!" because it's always been a given to me. No shit girls play games, I've been playing with them since I was elementary school. Just because some asshole online refuses to believe you play simply because you lack a penis, it doesn't make you any less of a gamer.
A lot of the problem with all the attention whores (whether in gaming circles or hellholes like MySpace) is the simple fact that certain guys give them that attention in the first place. Yes, she has boobs. Get over it. And ladies, wouldn't you want people to be interested in what you have to say rather than your curves? Is your self-esteem so low you need affirmation from social retards?
One of the many things I love about Destructoid is we have a large number of women who actually know their shit about games. The posers tend to get weeded out fairly quickly. Sure there's goofy flirting back and forth at times, but that's because we're friends here. Mad props to you Lauren for getting bumped to the front page, and OMG I WANT TO BANG YOU!1!!11!!
@ bobafettm:
Okay, exception noted. :P
"I hate seeing naked girls with controllers hiding their gines, thats fucking LAME"
Yeah, me too...why cover it up? If you're gonna be naked, let the gine be too!
P.S. lol, in case anyone takes this comment too seriously. But I really would rather see a gine than a video game peripheral.
I am so totally proud of you right now. ^_^
I don't understand the controller bondage. Or the super hot girls that game. It all seems so fake. No different then a woman posing as a librarian in Playboy.
I remember MTV had a "news" special, True Life: I'm a professional gamer. They fallowed a group of girls around the Counter Strike circuit. I wonder if they would have been on MTV if they were normal looking girls.
I agree with atheistium, scores before whores!
I apologize if this has been said previously, just wanted to address one minor point that's been mentioned.
There's no such thing as a "true" gamer - the idea is ridiculous and subjective. Each person's idea of a "true" gamer is one that closely fits in with their own preferences. Calling it "true" like it's the ineffable, decreed-by-God way of playing games is just another mechanism for elitists to feel better about themselves.
In reality, everyone experiences games differently. Some people casually play mobile phone or DS games. Some people forge lasting social networks in MMOs. Everyone values games for different things, and denigrating some types of gamers because they are different than you is tantamount to racism or any other prejudice.
You will probably enjoy the company of and conversation with gamers of similar habits and preferences. There's nothing wrong with that. Just make sure you aren't one of the people who thinks someone who plays "x" game/genre is somehow less worthy of breathing the gamer air we share.
A gamer is a gamer. Period.
In my opinion, there are 2 classes of gamers. The 1st being, the person who plays madden once every few days. The other being the person who plays games constantly. The latter is the one that posts on the forums, dreams about going to the old E3, and knows how much Jack Thompson is a douche.
Most of these girls fall into the 1st. I think atheistium is right about that. It seems more and more like models (notice I said models) are trying to get geek cred. They'll talk about how awesome games are, but when they're asked what games they play in an interview, they'll spew out super mario brothers.
I just wish they were more genuine. Like I said in my previous post, it all seems so fake. Scores before whores!
"I hate seeing naked girls with controllers hiding their gines, thats fucking LAME"
Yeah, me too...why cover it up? If you're gonna be naked, let the gine be too!
If they don't cover up with controllers than I can't post it. STOP MESSING WITH MY GOLDMINE!
Hmm... what would the EG stunt be?
Cfulp had the best analogy, Librarians in playboy. Wow. Very good.
Now if on I can get some girls to hang on me, dressed up like nurses while I play Trauma Center.
I am starting to rethink the whole thing, maybe it's about being a prude. Laughing at non-conformist conforming by making fun of non-comformist comforming.
<a href='http://www.glumbert.com/media/women'>Women: Know your limits</a>
First a disclaimer, its 4am and I skipped most of the comments, so my apologies if I say something thats been said.
Who cares if you, me, or anyone else is "a gamer". There is no reason to be jealous or hate on people for profiting off their looks and/or men's gullibilty(real word?). Just because some girl wears controllers on her tits doesn't make it any more difficult for you to play PS3 if you want to play PS3. Gaming is never inherently discrimintory based on sex, i've never needed to insert my penis into a console to get it working.
The arguement is slightly different if you want to "break into the industry" but basically what you are saying is you also want to make a quick buck off something you love which is the same as every other fucking person in the world. If you can put yourself ahead of other people you should wether its by flashing your tits or if its by doing good work and proving yourself to others is a personal choice.
Anyway 5am late for work hopefully this has been half coherent... Maybe I'll flesh out my thoughts and add pictures of tits and people will read it.
\Has a girlfriend who isn't a gamer
\\Sometimes wishes she was
\\\Also cocks.
Know your limits.
It's all about having a good time, stop taking socializing so seriously. Oh, that's what women do. /wink
Note: I am not really a bigot, I just think it's being taken too seriously, like the picture of me travelling through time to assassinate Hitler and Mussolini
I truly respect women and if women want to play video games, then we should let them. A person's gender shouldn't be an issue. We are all gamers here. If you want to play then play. Do not let anyone tell you that you can't.
You know, if there were REALLY hot guy gamers in Speedo's licking Wii controllers... none of this would be a big deal.
So, boys .... Pix or GTFO!!!!
If the little man in the boat wants to play mario, who are we to stop it?
[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1051/529573105_ef1c06d4de.jpg[/img
AM I DOIN IT RIGHT?
apparently i was doing it wrong
i came.
Aaaaaaaah fuck it all. We got gaming, you got multiple orgasms. What more do you want..... =)
First of all..
HOLY WTF BBQ!? IN MY HOUSE?!
Quickly to those who are all "meh, who cares" or "look at myspace"
If you read the whole post it was more about putting my feelings to rest about the whole issue. Not to really bring it bring up into this huge debate... I am kind of glad it did go up however :D Also, sure if you've got it flaunt it. However there is massive boom in the amount of females coming into the community currently. Great! How many of them play games? Oh wait.. yeah.. that's the problem.
Why am I attacking just gamer sites? Because this is a fucking gamer site!? Am I right? I'm a fucking gamer! Myspace is myspace. I was addressing the issue in the gamer community rather than the internet. haha :-P It frustrates me because I know I'd learn and others will learn to put aside this "wait until a girl wins first place" shit and just not even THINK about that. We'd have so many girls around it would be common place. But seeing beautiful girls in a community does frighten other girls away and if its fake beauties scaring the less so pretty genuine gamers that's where it gets upsetting. I actually hope Aktrez and the GGN will fix this problem.
On the scaring away shit, I don't know about you but girls DO worry about their looks, what people think etc. Even I, who is usually a big don't give a shit, will start to give up on ..humm... for example a guy if he has some hot chicka talking to him already. And it's as simple as that people. Also I just want to sleep with everyone in destructoid and no one else will probably read this comment anyway.
BUT GAMERS ARE GAMERS, FEMALE, MALE, BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW, GREEN, TERKWAIZE, URANGE!
Anyway I'm at work.
WUUU!
@ted
I CAME
@Atheistium, i did it for you. you make me wet in the pants.
@ted YEAH YOU DID
Ron, i just creamed. MOAR
is it wrong that i find that oddly attractive?