games  anime  |  toys
This is a Dtoid readers's blog. For staff blogs click here. Confused? read this Create you own!  |   Members: Login now



If you love it, change it: Zelda
Zerozaki Ishiki | 5:29 PM on 05.01.2008 13 comments


It seems to have become an accepted fact that the Zelda formula is getting stale. Judging from the sheer number of people who say this, anyway.
I'm not sure I believe this. I don't think the actual formula is the problem so much as the window dressing on that formula, and the designers failure to live up to that formula.

With that in mind, let's look at what the actual formula is:
An overworld map that you can only access a small portion of. Acquisition of items allows you to reach more areas of this map, which allows you to reach dungeons.
The dungeons contain new items; the second half of each dungeon largely revolves around learning to use the new item, while first half revolves around using all the items acquired before that dungeon together.
In addition to opening a new area of the overworld map, the new item also allows your to reach previously inaccessible crannies of the earlier areas.

That's all there is to it, really. This is the heart of it, and why everyone agrees Okami is Zelda-like, since it follows the exact same formula.

I think frustration comes from lack of innovation in the application of that formula, and in poor execution of it.
Items that are only useful in that one dungeon, and almost completely forgotten afterwards. The same items in every game with no real variation. Lack of decent reward for clever item usage - I know one of my biggest problems with Twilight Princess was the way they would give you useless rupees for successfully finding a hidden area that involved several items to get to, but would have Pieces of Heart randomly sitting in trees. Backwards!

But I think the biggest problem is the window dressing. Every game is basically the same. Sometimes they add lots of sailing or something, but essentially they all boil down to the same story, the same characters (except not, which means they can't even build on the history) and the same genre.

Perhaps it all really comes down to me finding Western medieval fantasy settings insanely boring. Okami has just as many problems as your average Zelda game, but because it has an unusual setting, it feels fresh where Zelda feels stale.

I'd like to see a Zelda Gaiden series.
A steampunk Zelda, a Zelda game in a modern urban setting, a sci-fi Zelda, a 30s Noir Zelda - take the basic formula above, and put it in new settings, with new characters. Keep the gameplay intact, but change the window dressing, allow for much more varied items and stories, different kinds of heroes and villains. The word Zelda in the title brings the built in audience, while the new window dressing brings back people who lost interest in the series a few games back. I'd certainly be a lot more excited.



Is this post awesome? Vote it up!

0


Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

13 comments | showing # 1 to 13

prev next

Tubatic's Destructoid Blog
I'd agree with changing the setting, and mixing the formula a little.

But I want them to keep the same characters. For me, and I'm not sure if its intentional or not, that's the "Legend" part of the series. The main and bit players pop up again. There's always an "Impa", there's always a fairy-ish character, and there's going to be a displaced member of the aquatic royal family. Its the same story being "retold" through the ages, and that's pretty awesome.

At this point, I look forward to the final showdown in every main storyline game: Zelda, Ganon, Link / "knowledge" vs "power" vs "courage" / here we are again, this seems somehow familiar.
jdub28's Destructoid Blog
I dont really need an enviroment change. I would just like them to work in some more Fable like ideas. Relationships, village people with actual lives, death and a more GTA like world that always feels alive. Id also,like moral choices. Of course were the hero of time but why cant we go about it in an evil sort of way, like robbing a wagon full of arrows or stealing a horse instead of summoning Epona. In LttP we get chased by guards but we never get to fight them in other games.

Throw in some deeper rpg elements like maybe gaining skills by actually fighting instead of learning them from a mystical warrior summoned by a wolf song. Side quest like the bombers book from MM would also be nice.

Like GTA IV proved, when something turns stale you dont have to blowup the whole thing. Just dig deeper and make it worth while again.
Tubatic's Destructoid Blog
@jdub

Aside from the addition of deep moral choices, I would LOVE an Open World Zelda.

Minor moral choices, cool, but I . . . know what, scratch that. I'm down with that.

Ganon and Link taking down Zelda in the final showdown, because Link believes in his heart of hearts that Ganon is doing the right thing (he won't be, of course)? That would be priceless, and make link a little more heroic, even.

The Redemption of Link . . .
jdub28's Destructoid Blog
@tubatic

That would be awsome but Nintendo would never let link be wholey evil but robin hood rebelious type of link would be awsome.








and blowing up a goat with a bomb
Rockvillian's Destructoid Blog
How much can you change until it ceases to become a Zelda game?

For me, Zelda is all about the David vs. Goliath idea. The "insignificant" little villager starts with a wooden sword, but ends up being the chosen one to take down the huge bad guy, whilst adventuring in an unexplored land with different items. That can be accomplished without the current pattern of Weapon A is for Dungeon A, Item B is for Wall B, etc. To some those are archaic game design patterns made for simple top down level design, sort of like how Final Fantasy still clings to turn based fighting of the old days, when it could easily be adapted into more fluid fighting systems because of today's technology.

But here's the thing. People LIKE turn based fighting, and people LIKE the classic Zelda progression. It's hard to modify comfort food! :)
pedrovay2003's Destructoid Blog
Damn, you beat me to this. If I didn't have to work, I would have immediately typed a Zelda thing. :P

Good read, though.
Zerozaki Ishiki's Destructoid Blog
Fundamentally, I feel like other types of RPG get imitated a lot, and applied to all kinds of genres, where the Zelda formula is pretty much Zelda and Okami. Maybe there's a few others I don't know about, but it isn't as widely imitated. Hence the Zelda Gaiden; the Zelda name applied to boost sales, but not actually from the main series of games. I just thought Zelda Gaiden: Okami would have sold a lot more than Okami did.
I'd like to play more RPGs, but can't stand turn based combat at all.
F Whipple's Destructoid Blog
I'd love to see some freshness thrown into the combat. Give us some combos and some more options. I want to grab someone with the hookshot, "get over here," and impale them with my blade. I want to throw the shield like captain america. I guess I'm just sick of slashing in four directions with the same animation. Twilight Princess added slightly more depth, but I think the whole thing needs an overhaul.
Creamsnake's Destructoid Blog
Personally, I think the formula itself sucks. I think they need to make the Zelda games more open ended. I feel so constricted playing any of the more recent efforts. Make it more Elder Scrollsy

I'm tired of having some gay-ass physical barrier blocking my path to the next area... especially when it's just a gate or something. I like the original Legend of Zelda. You could travel really far but the monsters would get much stronger and eventually kill your ass with one hit. But if you wanted to just go to Death Mountain you could just fucking go there.

Like in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion if you enter an area you are not ready for you will KNOW when you get insta-killed by a three-eyed green gorilla. I'll take that over "No! You cant go this way go where I tell you to go!" any day. <-That was a Wind Waker reference if anyone's wondering.
Droll's Destructoid Blog
Zerozaki Ishiki: I think Ocerina of Time is the greatest game ever made, and I still agree with your entry 100%.
I would love to see the Zelda franchise do something completly different from trying to emulate OOT. I would even love to see Link be given a voice and actual personallity, make him a real charecter rather than "The link between the player and the game!!!!!".
I also wrote a "If you love it, change it entry", giving my take on the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise. Please read it, I'd be really interested to hear what you think about my blog entry!
Dan CiTi's Destructoid Blog
How about making the items you get in a dungeon useful outside of that dungeon?

The spinner in Twilight Princess is fucking awesome. Too bad you never get to use again.
Dan CiTi's Destructoid Blog
Damn typoz.
Zerozaki Ishiki's Destructoid Blog
Yeah, part of the basic formula, part that they've executed erratically. There were a couple of places in narrow mountain passes where you could use that thing, but not quite enough.


prev next


Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!

 about me

 friends' updates


 

 
  get involved

register or login
post a blog
post a forum
enter a contest
contribute a news tip
suggest a feature
be a guest editor
support

new member's guide
login assistance
tech support
report abuse
email our editors
read our dev blog
nuclear crisis?
keep in touch

RSS feed
Twitter
Facebook
Myspace
Flickr
Game nights
Meetup+play online
seriously

about Destructoid
advertising
terms of use
privacy policy
jobs at MM
buy our crap
our network

Tomopop
Japanator
Despingation?




Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
living the dream since March 16, 2006