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Flower: ZB v. Dtoid
Zac Bentz | 11:09 AM on 02.15.2009 24 comments




This post is a response to Topher's review of Flower. It's also about Anthony and Brad's review as well, but to a lesser extent. This could have just gone into the comments, but it ballooned in size pretty fast. Instead of clogging the comments with a few hundred words (and probably having them lost in some spammy troll war), I thought I'd try and break down my arguments here.

---

Sorry Topher, but I feel that your entire review is based on a false premise. The problem comes from your preconceived notions, not the game itself.

The kinds of MASSIVE SPOILERS you're talking about are there to do exactly the things you are having problems with. The game is about a city that has lost its life. Death has been moving outward from its twisted shell, spreading across the land. The wind/flower is tasked with setting things right, bringing life back to the world. Things are all fine and happy in the fine and happy natural world, then suddenly the wind/flower sees that things have gone horribly wrong. Yet it doesn't relish the fact that man-made steel and electricity are finally destroying themselves. Instead, it struggles to make that city a brighter place, working together with the humans, celebrating the great things they can accomplish.



Working together with nature is the real story behind Flower. It could easily have gone far off into another direction, where the wind/flower forever eradicates the city, leaving a huge field full of nothing but grass and flowers. It could have done a flappy-armed hippie dance on top of humanities grave. It doesn't, and that's what takes Flower to a much more profound level than many other simple “do one thing and do it well” games. It has a greater depth and sophistication than you are giving it credit for.

The "shifts" you talk about are the perfect way to convey this sense of shock. Remember, this is a game without dialog and without any real characters. The story is told through the changes happening outside the room while the wind/flower is working hard to make things right, telling the story from both sides at the same time. We see the broken city from the inside, as the wind/flower works from the outside. The shock of having a blackened world suddenly appear out of the darkness is when the real game begins. I think that all of the reviews have pointed that out, but for all the wrong reasons. Think about it: What if the game just continued on for another three or four levels of the exact same leisurely pace? Would you have been happy with that, or would you have been complaining about how it never really did anything interesting beyond the basic gameplay? I never hear people complaining that there was too much shooting in Doom or too much jumping in Mega Man, but I'll bet that if Flower was nothing but the first stage over and over for two hours that people would be giving it a universal thumbs down. There needs to be some sort of story, some sort of reason to keep playing.



I think you approached the game from a completely incorrect angle. You were looking for some sort of pretty, simple and "zen" (whatever that means) experience. Something that was easy and wasn't going to make you "play a game." Instead of eating hungrily from the ripe fruit it provided, you spit it out because it had too much taste.

To be fair, I think that Brad giving it a 10 is also off the mark. I don't really like talking about numbers and scores, but I think it's safe to say that Flower is not a game for everyone. If you're the type of “hardcore” gamer that only uses games to measure your virtual penis, then Flower is not for you. If you play games because you actually love to play games and experience the quiet joy they can provide, then Flower is a must have.



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21 comments | showing # 1 to 21
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SilverDragon1979's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 11:38
SilverDragon1979
Great write-up man, and I 100% agree with you!

After reading Tophers feature I was going to write up something very similar to this, but you captured the essence of what I was going to write extremely well.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 12:26
Tubatic
While I think the game is presenting zen concepts to the player, its not providing a zen experience to the player, as Topher is positing.

I've experienced Zen from gameplay before. Its not necessarily from unique or beautiful story elements that I had that experience, but rather becoming consumed in the moment and executing on a subconscious, relaxed level.

Its a tall order to expect that from a game, sure. But it feels like, through games like Flower and even, say, Geometry Wars, that the interactive nature of games are getting dissappointingly close to bestowing the experience on players.
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 12:26
Qraze
i believe you're right about a bunch of shit and i agree with you as but we got to stop this right now before it becomes stupid. we don't need no more drama about flower.
DF's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 12:36
DF
There needs to be some sort of story, some sort of reason to keep playing.

Just to nitpick. :3

Where were you during the days when the story of a game was a single page in the manual? Or non-existant at all? Come to think of it, what are the stories for the most prominent casual games, like Bejeweled or Tetris or whatnot?

I think that if a game has enthralling enough gameplay, what matters the story? I don't need a reason to blow around petals of flowers if it's fun. But I'm not meaning to troll (so my apologies if that's what it looks like I'm doing) and I do enjoy a good story in a game, but it's not a priority for me these days, unless it's an RPG of course.

Carry on.
Pangloss's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 12:55
Pangloss
Jeebus, if the drama is this intense over a game called Flower, how bad will it be when Jim posts the Killzone 2 review? I predict fire in the streets, and President Obama being forced to nuke the comment threads from orbit.
Daxelman's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 12:56
Daxelman
Flower has Trophy's, so basically you could use it to measure your virtual penis.

Next Up at 11: Where the hell is Carmen Sandiago? Google has an answer for you, only if you conform.
Pangloss's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 12:59
Pangloss
Daxelman: No, Google's still waiting for Carmen Sandiego to sign up for Latitude.
Haxan's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 13:35
Haxan
@Pangloss.
It's the only way to be safe.
McKillagan's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 14:07
McKillagan
I think so far from people's comment and reviews, you either get Flower or you don't. I still think overall everyone is saying it is fun and new, which is plenty to persuade me.
Topher Cantler's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 14:16
Topher Cantler
Zac Bentz! I could not have been called out by a finer individual, that makes me happy. :D

Fist up, that's not a review that I wrote. If it were, it would have been a terribly irresponsible one, and I'd be well deserving of whatever shitstorm ensued. It's simply my thoughts on Sony setting the game up to be something it wasn't. That's the beginning and the end of it right there.

The key here is my headline. "How Flower was this close to being a Zen experience." Let's ignore the actual definition of the word Zen, as we all know that's not what it means. But what Sony promised is not what was delivered, and that's the point I'm trying to make with the piece.

My point is, Sony shouldn't have said that. I'm well aware that the dev never promised such a thing, but that's not what I'm speaking to with the article. I'm pointing to Sony.

I get the narrative. I can appreciate that. In fact, for the hundredth time, I really liked this game. If it had simply appeared on PSN without any hype to precede it, I would have loved it, and would never have written the article to begin with. The point of it, and the thing everyone is missing, is this:

Sony (not the dev) said this was a soothing, "Zen gaming experience." It was not, entirely. This is why it was not.

That's what the article is for. I'm not saying the game sucks. I'm not saying the level should have been omitted. I'm saying that Sony told us Flower was something it was not. And we should know better, right? Of course we should. But the article exists solely to point out that Sony's hype was misleading. No more, no less.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 14:43
Samit Sarkar
I see both points of view (that is, yours and Topher's). It's true that Sony heavily advertised Flower as "Zen gaming" -- whatever that means -- so I can understand why Toph would be annoyed at the game for not being something that Sony promised (but still being awesome).

But I tend to agree more with you, Zac, in that Flower tells an engaging story that keeps you playing because you want to "heal the world," so to speak. I really enjoyed it.

Either way, this blog and Topher's article are both fantastic write-ups!
Topher Cantler's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 14:57
Topher Cantler
Careful there, Samit- I'm not the least bit annoyed at the game. I'm annoyed with Sony, who trumpeted an "experience" that was relaxing and un-game-like. The aforementioned level was anything but.

Either way, we'll be discussing it on Podtoid tomorrow, so tune in for that, maybe I can explain my point of view with spoken words better than I can with written ones.
Zac Bentz's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 15:38
Zac Bentz
OK, I see where I was off the mark. Topher, you'd 100% correct, Flower is not a zen experience. I guess I was just interpreting your article to mean that because of that, that the game failed in some why. I thought you were hoping it would be more zen and more like a traditional game, and that the "gameness" of it was a bad thing. Or something. I don't even know anymore! :D Anyway, I think we're both on the same page, just coming at it from different places.

In the end, I think we can all agree that everyone should just shut up and buy it and play it, right?

And yeah, Pangloss, I think I'll just have to abandon the Internet for a couple weeks after Killzone 2 hits. The carnage will be legendary.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 15:38
Samit Sarkar
@Topher: Right you are -- poor choice of words on my part.
Topher Cantler's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 15:46
Topher Cantler
@Zac: Not at all, I still thought the game was great. Just that the one particular level felt out of place and kept it from being the laid back, non-game experience Sony said it was. I can appreciate why it was there narrative-wise, and it didn't ruin the game for me or anything.

All I'm saying is, Sony should have STFU and just said "Here's an interesting and different game", instead of "ZOMGAWD you can meditate to it."
Jonathan Ross's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 15:51
Jonathan Ross
It makes me incredibly happy that the comments in this thread are actually intelligent and polite. Hooray!

I'm only two levels into Flower so I don't think I can really comment on it. I'm enjoying it so far, but I feel like there's something missing from it, and I think what's missing is directly related to the hype the game got.
TheRemedy's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 16:18
TheRemedy
Lois I find these comments to be shallow and pedantic!
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 16:47
Qraze
(waiting for giant wikipedia page on zen paste(hint hint) )
bloodylip's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 19:10
bloodylip
There's a huge lack of microshitting fagtarts in this comment section. Someone invite Cotton here.
The Prodigal Son's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 23:44
The Prodigal Son
It's interesting that Flower has generated such a debate. We got this chill game that's so innocent that it's gameplay mechanic is the wind, and yet it has created so much turmoil in this community (although most was generated by a single douche nozzle). It just shows that a person takes an individual experience from this game.

@Topher: I've never heard Sony say the words "Zen gaming experience" but I wouldn't past them. I would be shocked if that's something thatgamecompany said though.
The Prodigal Son's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/15/2009 23:56
The Prodigal Son
[wouldn't PUT IT past them]. I've been pretty fail lately with forgetting to type words as I say them in my head.
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