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Attn Community: We need your input
Yashoki | 9:07 PM on 04.12.2008 66 comments


So here's the Issue. A while back with the Unofficial Destructoid TF2 server, I had admin. One day we were all playing having lots of fun. The server was full and the game was fierce, what ended up happening is that community member Butmac was all up and ready to play, but the server was full. So as an admin I decided it would be a good idea to kick someone from the server. The person was not a member of Destructoid.com so I felt that I was in the right to kick him out.

What ended up happening was that Kor (the server's owner along with Caffiene Powered) didn't like this. He did not agree with my decision that a Destructoid member should have the highest priority over anyone on that TF2 server. He told me (just right now actually) that the [Destructiod.com - Pew Pew Pew] server was a "Dual-Community server" who's purpose was to serve the TF2 community at large, as well as the Destructoid community.

We went into discussion about the use of the Destructoid name and what it means. To me, if a server has Dtoid.com and nothing else, that server is for Dtoid members at its core. Granted they're not going to ban/kick randoms out, but that a random holds less weight than a community member.

I completely understand that it's Kor and Caff's server, and they can do WHATEVER they want with it. But they have to understand that the name Destructoid means something enourmous. It means a place where I can see a post made by Chad as I wake up, and then later that night go to his house, eat all his food, and pet his dog.
What Destructoid means to me is community comes first.
And here’s the twist. I want the community to see this and react to it. I want the community to speak. Don’t let me speak for you, and don’t let Kor speak to you. This is an issue that needs to be worked upon and one that the community shouldn't be kept out of.

Make dtoiders number 1, or take the name out

Under this I have Copy and Pasted the log from Kor and I's chat on Steam trying to resolve this matter. I would appreciate that you read this and give your input before commenting, but I can’t control you guys.

And Please for the love of god. KEEP THE FLAMEWARS OUT We will discuss and be civil. It's either a big issue, or it's nothing at all. It'll erupt or just be blown away. It's just really bugging me

So here it is, with all its errors (ignore them :P) The log. And I hope we can work this out.



http://download.yousendit.com/E3994EE01FB0A161

Edit/Conclusion: Thanks alot guys, I just wanted to see what everyone though on this to see what to really think. It's not something that me and Kor can fix by ourselves since this effects a ton of people.

So I invite everyone back onto the community with Kor and Caff under admin so they can do their thing. Due to the fact that I cant delete/hand over ownership and to save people the trouble.

I really thank you guys in actually taking the time to read this and voice your concerns. And I hope this all to be fixed real soon (a.k.a when Kor logs his lazy ass back on)



Please note that I am in no way ungrateful for what Caff and Kor have worked on. I have always said that I appreciate them for doing what I couldn't have done. Again, to anyone who seems to really hate me, I'm sorry. For pretty much everything and being a jackass.



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61 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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wardrox's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 21:39
wardrox
I didn't read all, but if it's their server, they can do what they want imho. It's nice they let dtoiders use it, and thusly it gets the dtoid name, but ultimately it's theirs.

We all get on well, but when a decision comes in, they out trump you, even if you are an admin and from dtoid.

Gotta be careful your not stirring up necessary eDrama here too. Which is what you are doing, a little bit.
Conrad Zimmerman's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 21:43
Conrad Zimmerman
Everybody has trouble getting on a server from time to time. That's life. The server belongs to Kor and Caffeine. Since they own it, they can do whatever they want (as you state).

And Kor's kinda right. If Niero has a problem with it using his name on the grounds that it's not entirely Dtoid oriented, that's his perogative and it should be changed. Otherwise, life goes on, STFUAJPG.
Bob Muir's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 21:55
Bob Muir
Both sides raise excellent points, and I can see where Kor is coming from. After all, it is his server. However, just having a server where some Dtoiders are allowed to play, but are not given priority over non-Dtoid "server regulars" violates the name that Kor has given it. If this is the case, Dtoiders could go play on any serve that would allow them to be there, but would have no place where they are given dedicated priority.

The part that I'm not clear on is that Kor says they have a bought which does give Dtoiders preference, after they register somewhere, I assume. If this is true, then combined with ad-hoc admin decisions in favor of Dtoiders, then I don't see what the problem is. A clarification of this feature would help sort out how to solve this dispute.
Yashoki's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 21:55
Yashoki
It's more like, whats the point of naming the server Dtoid if dtoiders aren't going to be your first priority?
Namelessted's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 21:57
Namelessted
I didn't read the whole conversation but from what I got out of what I read is that Yahsoki was moslty in the right. If the server is named "destructoid...." whatever, then a dtoid community member should get preference over non-dtoiders in the instance where the server is full and a dtoider is trying to join.

Should certain dtoiders get preference over other dtoiders if the server is full? no. but that wasn't the case. Even if the person was a server regular, he seems to not be a dtoider so he doesn't get first dibs. If caff or Kor have a problem with that, then they need to name the server something other than a dtoid server.
UselessKor's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:02
UselessKor
To those reading the blog, this isn't the entirety of the coversation. Allow me to post the rest of the convo.
UselessKor's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:04
UselessKor
Kor: Our name? You speak for Neiro? I can't accept that from you Yash.
Yashoki: Yes OUR name.
Yashoki: Destructoids name.
Yashoki: It belongs to the community. And thats why Niero doesn't go nuts over this shit.
Yashoki: But if you really feel that way, then I'm sorry.
Kor: No apology is required from you Yash, if Neiro has taking issue with the usage of the Destructoid name, I'm sure we would have recieved notification on the matter. We have always stated that this is an unoffical server, but an unoffical community server.
Kor: The community is served by the custom plugin written for this purpose. The community is still served by holding community-only events. The community will continue to be served so long as mebers continue to play here. I always make it a point to welcome any community member that joins the server, its always good to see people getting something out of it.
Kor: I will NEVER turn away people that want to make use of what we offer. And that's the bottom line.
Kor: Is there anything else you'd like to discuss?
Yashoki: Not really. I dont believe I was in the worng.
Yashoki: wrong* The use of the Dtoid name means alot.
Yashoki: I'm sorry if you dont feel that way. Call me crazy. W/e.
Kor: I believe you can reiterate all your points as much as you like Yash, but the issues have been explained to you as they have been laid out. Diverging viewpoints will always be present, but its your responsibilty to honestly attempt to understand our side on this matter.
Wexx's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:08
Wexx
I'm mixed on the issue. It's Kor/Caff's server, and they're doing a great job running it, letting us use it. To be honest, I didn't read the whole conversation, but to be blunt, if it's their server, let them do what they want, but change the name to something not containing the Dtoid name if they're not going to kick people that are non-dtoiders (Which believe they did, for a while, haven't been on/paid attention lately).
Either way, it's not like you can't auto-join the server when a spot opens up, so this really shouldn't be as big of a deal as it is. Hell, some nights a spot may NOT open up. Get over it, and play another game.
Wexx's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:10
Wexx
*** ...if they're not going to kick non-dtoid members on a community night (TFTuesdays or FNF) for a community member.

Where's my damn comment edit :P
CaffeinePowered's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:17
CaffeinePowered
You are grasping straws son and your argument makes zero sense.

Theres that lovely thing called the reserve list that I programed and spent a MONTH debugging because you asked for it. The only way a dtoider whose taken the 5 min it takes to give me your ID gets knocked out of the server is when its full of only people on the list. In addition, it will MAKE ROOM for them (limited to 24) when they join.

Get off your high horse everything you've said is utter BS you're just nit picking.

Ted, Necros since you are out of the loop, anyone that took the time to give me their ID gets preference, its limited to first come first serve, no one dtoider is more important than another. Continuing to make the same argument well after the fact has been settled is juvenile and ignorant.
UselessKor's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:18
UselessKor
@ Wexx

[i]Kor: The community is served by the custom plugin written for this purpose. The community is still served by holding community-only events. The community will continue to be served so long as mebers continue to play here. I always make it a point to welcome any community member that joins the server, its always good to see people getting something out of it.
Kor: I will NEVER turn away people that want to make use of what we offer. And that's the bottom line. [/i]
vexed alex's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:21
vexed alex
So, I pretty much take Necros' stance on this whole thing. If you're not going to have Destructoid members as priority numero uno then a name change would probably be the best idea.
PrinceofCannedPeaches's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:21
PrinceofCannedPeaches
You seriously c-blogged this? And let the whole Dtoid community in on this [i]private drama[i]?

You cuntrag.
vexed alex's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:22
vexed alex
OK. Caff, Thanks for the clarification. I now see.
Wexx's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:24
Wexx
Kor: I know. I was restating it for argument's sake. Sorry. Thanks for being such a great admin! 8)
Yashoki's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:26
Yashoki
If you're going to use the Dtoid name Dtoid takes priority. You can do whatever you want as long as you dont advertise it as DTOID.COM SERVER.
UselessKor's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:28
UselessKor
Wexx: No worries mate, the last thing I want people to misunderstand is that we don't have a way to cater to the community.
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:29
Wedge
Don't you have some Live to go play on now? When is the last time you even played TF2 on the server? You haven't been an admin there in fucking AGES. Why are you bringing this up now? This is total bullshit. The way the server works now, anybody that's posted ON THIS SITE to be reserved on the server, will automatically be able to join the server whenever they want, and it will kick someone not registered.

There's no "civil discussion" to be had, because there is problem. You're just obviously having some "personal" issues with the community being awesome, and you not being relevant to it.
Maurice Tan's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:34
Maurice Tan
Why wouldn't anyone kick anyone for Butmac? I would kick Butmac for Butmac!
Tragic Hero's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:42
Tragic Hero
What Caf said...
Tragic Hero's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:47
Tragic Hero
I also didn't realize that Yashoki was this mighty Avatar of the Destructoid community. I know whenever someone talks about TF2 for FNF or anything PC related I heard the names Caf, Kor, and Joel. No one seems to mention Yashoki's name in this. So I think Caf and Kor would represent the voice of Destructoid better, no?
lucashoal's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 22:58
lucashoal
Wedge is right. Why *ARE* you getting all up in arms about this now, of all times? You haven't been on in months, except to play Peggle or anything BUT TF2.

And the community DOES take priority Yasho. So...your one argument falls flat and dies. That's the only point you had, to make it a community server... and it is.
weedgan's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:04
weedgan
Alright, how are you going to tell someone how to deal with something THEY pay for.

And I highly fucking soubt that niero would have a problem with any of this. If the guy is a regular on the server, is a good player and has respect and a good attitude then it shouldn't matter if he's DTOID or not...Most DTOID users are console users anyway, and im pretty positive of that. Hell DTOID is more of a console geared site anyway...how often do you you see news posted about the latest WOW patch, or the latest Steam updates? Not often.
Aertyr's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:05
Aertyr
Wedge wins.
vandamguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:09
vandamguy
i suppose this is all a matter of perception..
for the other FNF'ers with your xboxes and pstripples, when you make a server for 16 people they are definatly going to be only dtoid members. you've never really left your systems on day and night and had other people from the wide internet joining in on your games. which means that you've probably never met such nice non-dtoid players like the ones we have on the tf2 server. which is probably why you dont understand why we would rather play with them than you.
Evil Cheese's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:14
Evil Cheese
@Yash:

First of all, is this really a matter of Dtoiders not getting preferential treatment? Really, is it? It seems to me like you're using that argument as a red herring to distract from the initial issue of you having your admin privileges revoked. This one incident where a player (regardless if it was a server regular or not) was not kicked in favor of a Dtoider is not a proper example of how the server is run on a daily basis.

Secondly, you are using this incident out of context to further your own goals, whatever those might be. Seriously, what were you trying to accomplish with this blog? Were you trying to get your admin privileges back? Are you trying to rally the community into forcing Caff and Kor to drop the Dtoid name because you are unhappy with how they run the server? From what your log describes, it seems to me that your admin privileges were revoked because you failed to follow policies governing the behavior of admins that were created by the server's owners, not for kicking a server regular in favor of a dtoid community member. As I already said, you are using this one incident out of context in an attempt to justify to yourself and the dtoid community that you were somehow wronged. You have the balls to say Kor isn't a true community member when you yourself are the one trying to "use" the community to further your own goals. Please get over yourself.

Lastly, as Kor and Caff have said, the sever is focused on the community. The impression that I get is that it always will be as long as people still come to play and Dtoid still exists. This is evident by the plugin Caff wrote to automate community members getting priority. I think it is extremely immature of you to ignore all the time and money Caff and Kor put into the server by calling into question their commitment to the community and by bringing a private issue like this out into a public forum.
Yashoki's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:25
Yashoki
What I'm focused on is just fixing all this. Maybe I went about it the wrong way but that cant be changed. I dont really care about admin on the server it's never been an issue to me. Go read the post again, I edited it with what I think is a good enough...aplogy.

Yeah i'm a dick, ass, ect. blah blah. I'm just up for fixing shit. Thats the point.
cbre88x's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:26
cbre88x
Sigh...will this Charlie-foxtrot ever end?

It'd be great if Yashoki didn't whine about something else every 5 damned seconds.
Yashoki's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:28
Yashoki
Wardrox has been getting to me :(
Cheeburga's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:32
Cheeburga
WHERE THE HELL DID MY COMMENT GO?!
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:37
Eschatos
Too late Yashoki, too late.
copulatingduck's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:42
copulatingduck
WHERE THE HELL DID MY COMMENT GO?!
Aertyr's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:42
Aertyr
Foxtoid is a joke. This is a joke. Everyone needs to STFUAJPG! It's just a game, it's just a server. Leave drama to the OC. Once theirs an official Destructoid server all this crap will be over.
Yashoki's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:43
Yashoki
Eschatos: shut up. Honestly. the Dtoid group has a bigger reach, just rejoin if you left and caff and kor will also have admin. I'll help in anyway I can.

It's a fucking olive branch.
PrinceofCannedPeaches's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:47
PrinceofCannedPeaches
Listen, Yashoki, I'm glad you can even admit to trying to fix all of this, that's a step in the right direction. But that's not what this c-blog is about. If it was, you wouldn't have brought up "evidence" to indict Kor, you wouldn't have quibbled with Caff when he commented.

I'm with Cheese on this one, to a degree. If I'm any one to guess, you're just pissed that something you did got your admin privileges taken back. Yes, it was wrong of Kor to come to you afterwards and try to coerce you into giving him admin to your group, and yes, Caffeine and Kor haven't been consistently respectful with the way they've tried to smooth things over. But they were trying to smooth things over.

I think that's something all of you should have enough decency to care about.
PrinceofCannedPeaches's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:48
PrinceofCannedPeaches
And Aertyr, you have no idea just how wrong you are. Did you hear what happened to Soviet Russia, by any chance?
WastelandTraveler's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:49
WastelandTraveler
I talked with yash and caf.. yash handed over as much ownership as the steam community page will allow, I and caf will essentially have hte same exact rights as the owner. However this situation was approached is not what I'm addressing, what I'm addressing is that yash is wanting to compromise with this situation and let it be done with. He wanted the communities view on this, and he got it.

Let this be water under the bridge, and move on. AKA STFUAJPG :) I <3 you all!
Yashoki's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:52
Yashoki
Was i angry i got my admin taken? Yeah I was. Now? I couldn't care less. The group isn't "mine" it's the communities, I've come to the realization that we need to work together.
If we continue to "blah blah yashoki blah did this" then we'll never fix this. It doesn't matter, All I'm asking is to let bygones be bygones. Stop taking it so seriously and lets start playing some games. Can you do that? Because honestly this has gone on long enough.

I'm not trying to be a hero, I'm trying to fix this. yeah maybe it's a little late, but it's not impossible to go "hey, this is dumb lets just rejoin the group, under new management and start over from scratch".
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/12/2008 23:57
king3vbo
Looks like Kor/CP are throwing the blame game towards Yashoki. At least thats the way it looks to me, an outsider. Personally, I dont see what the big hoopla is about. Like I said in Shoki's other blog:

STFUAJPG
ToiletDuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 00:06
ToiletDuck
Weird, things seem to be working fine to me :S

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
SanityMask's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 00:23
SanityMask
FNF is for the community, Tuesdays too, if there was a password at all time, there would be little activity. Also, it's a great way for people to discover Dtoid.

Destructoid isn't reserved to a selected few. Everyone wans to keep the good stuff for themselves nowadays... it's public people
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 00:28
king3vbo
ATTENTION COMMUNITY: I am about to do something I have never done before.

I COMPLETELY 100% AGREE WITH RORSCHACH
MechaMonkey's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 00:51
MechaMonkey
We let people into our community here on the website. I don't see why we shouldn't welcome other folks into other aspects of our community as well.
Surf314's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 01:00
Surf314
I spent like 30 minutes writing and re-writing a comment, but I deleted it because I don't want to prolong this crap.

There is no issue. Everything is running great. There was never a splinter group. No one was trying to compete. Everyone has a great time on the server and a lot of random pub people were turned on to the site because of it.

Caff and Kor gave me admin privileges to try and keep out the jerks and because of the efforts of everyone we have received a lot of compliments. You have no idea what that means to this site, when people see a friendly server with a good community and here about destructoid because of it. There is no need for this high school crap. In fact you might have just scared some of them off.

This turned into a stupid comment anyways but the bottom line is being a friendly server means a lot to everyone and it is good publicity for the site. So please leave the drama out of it.
Revolt in Colour's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 01:03
Revolt in Colour
DEY TOOK OUUUR JOBS!!
copulatingduck's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 01:25
copulatingduck
@Rorscach:

Your loss. There's never been any drama ON the server in my time there. Just games and shenanigans.
atheistium's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 01:54
atheistium
rename it. /done
exanimo's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 02:08
exanimo
I just want to say that I discovered this site thanks to the amazing PC TF2 community/server. I think others should have the opportunity to discover it as well. I just think we should stop with all this politicalization of the word "Destructoid" and just all get along.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/13/2008 02:20
Samit Sarkar
@Heretic, Revolt in Colour: Let’s be fair, they didn’t take your job...they took your yob.
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