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Zadruga, anyone who honestly says they are "down" with how horrible war is a psychopath. No one here believes that no matter how poor their writing skills. Also, anyone worth an opinion wouldn't shallowly equate so brutal a photo of what you so innocently dubbed murder to capture the flag.
There are obviously issues to be discussed here, about the maturity of games, about Treyarch's ability to create such a controversial war without royally fucking up, and about whether gamers are prepared for such an experience.
Matt's picture was a blunt and likely unintended way of addressing those issues. Rather than think about any of that though, people saw the picture and came to a conclusion without any respect to the issues.
The picture's gone now, obviously, because comments took no time to think, took no time to be empathetic, and judged without seeing the issue. A game about Vietnam is being made, this is what Vietnam at its worst is. Matt's joke said gamers would not be able to grasp issues associated with such a game, and he was right.
Naturally, my previous comment meant no insult to commenters that did take their time thinking about the issue... despite all the frustration. Sorrys for being an angry blue.
There are obviously issues to be discussed here, about the maturity of games, about Treyarch's ability to create such a controversial war without royally fucking up, and about whether gamers are prepared for such an experience.
Matt's picture was a blunt and likely unintended way of addressing those issues. Rather than think about any of that though, people saw the picture and came to a conclusion without any respect to the issues.
The picture's gone now, obviously, because comments took no time to think, took no time to be empathetic, and judged without seeing the issue. A game about Vietnam is being made, this is what Vietnam at its worst is. Matt's joke said gamers would not be able to grasp issues associated with such a game, and he was right.
Naturally, my previous comment meant no insult to commenters that did take their time thinking about the issue... despite all the frustration. Sorrys for being an angry blue.
@CUDpwns,
You are aware that in that pic, the guy has a bullet traveling really fast through his brain, right? I'd think that another photo taken 10 seconds later when he's on the ground and his heart had stopped beating might be a little easier to look at. But, I guess that's just my opinion.
You are aware that in that pic, the guy has a bullet traveling really fast through his brain, right? I'd think that another photo taken 10 seconds later when he's on the ground and his heart had stopped beating might be a little easier to look at. But, I guess that's just my opinion.
@ Tubatic: I can only speak for myself, but there was no outrage when I saw the pic. Rather, I thought the choice was in bad taste, but I don’t come to Dtoid for taste. The only reason I commented here was this huge blowout of a post that mistook my feelings when seeing the original.
@ Kraid: I always enjoy your comments, but I invite you to go back and read what Elsa or I had to say on the matter (the points are practically the same): A serious picture needs to be paired with serious discussion, and the topic at hand did not seem to match the seriousness of the picture.
My blogging skills are limited but I would welcome a blog discussing the human element of Vietnam, WW II, or all war, and how that human reality relates to videogames. There are a few videogames that make you think out there, and one that was both playable and gave a deeper impression of war than, say, the Battlefields or CoD’s would be welcome.
@Randombullseye: If you think the US, or even “the West” comes out any better than any other section of humanity, you don’t know history very well. Humans are angels and demons at the same time, including the American variety.
@ Kraid: I always enjoy your comments, but I invite you to go back and read what Elsa or I had to say on the matter (the points are practically the same): A serious picture needs to be paired with serious discussion, and the topic at hand did not seem to match the seriousness of the picture.
My blogging skills are limited but I would welcome a blog discussing the human element of Vietnam, WW II, or all war, and how that human reality relates to videogames. There are a few videogames that make you think out there, and one that was both playable and gave a deeper impression of war than, say, the Battlefields or CoD’s would be welcome.
@Randombullseye: If you think the US, or even “the West” comes out any better than any other section of humanity, you don’t know history very well. Humans are angels and demons at the same time, including the American variety.
could have been a hippie holding up an anti-war sign and i would have still known what it was about.
but, dtiod is not really a place full of taste, Jim Sterling blogs are full of nasty things.
but, dtiod is not really a place full of taste, Jim Sterling blogs are full of nasty things.
You people play FPS games based on real history with realistic weapons all the time, but a picture of the real thing disturbs you? Grow the fuck up. If anyone is making light of the vietnam war, it's those who play the game without having any context for the violence.
I agree jimbo 100%. Heaven forbid you see a real picture of a real event that really changed this country on a gaming website. Let me ask those who said it was in bad taste, what comes to mind when you think of Vietnam, sunshine, roses? I know for myself part of what I picture is imagery like this. The monk lighting himself on fire, that header image, the soliders that gave their lives in that hell. So it's in bad taste to take a REAL image from that time and use it as a lead in to a story about Vietnam? I don't see the issue. Are you really that compartmentalized that you want everything to be sunshine and puppies all the time? Fuckin babies all of ya.
I can't really blame Razak for taking it down, but I can't say I believe that everyone complaining was actually offended, either.
@Haxan
Oh i didn't realise that the bullet had been fired yet but still it doesn't disturb me. I've seen plenty of images from war so i guess seeing death just doesn't affect me anymore, well images of death at least i haven't seen death in person.
Oh i didn't realise that the bullet had been fired yet but still it doesn't disturb me. I've seen plenty of images from war so i guess seeing death just doesn't affect me anymore, well images of death at least i haven't seen death in person.
I don't get it. What's so bad about the photo in the first place?
It doesn't look that bad, as far as war photos go. My history teacher has worse stuff.
It doesn't look that bad, as far as war photos go. My history teacher has worse stuff.
I don't know. I can understand why critics are upset, but I think the picture works quite well if you think that the guy with the gun is Activision and the happy guy on the right is creativity incarnate.
Also, I have no soul.
Also, I have no soul.
Yup, people need to stop bitching and crying about it. Just shut the fuck up. It's offensive? Boohoo. The post is about the Vietnam War, so the header image is also about the Vietnam War. Stop being such pansies.
@Haxan
You know, I never knew how much of a one-in-a-million photograph this was until you mentioned that. To see video of it (and, for better or worse, its not that hard to find), the timing of the photo is intense.
It hasn't changed my opinion of appropriateness in context today, but, as strange as it sounds, I've gained an appreciate for what that photo means and what's really going on.
You know, I never knew how much of a one-in-a-million photograph this was until you mentioned that. To see video of it (and, for better or worse, its not that hard to find), the timing of the photo is intense.
It hasn't changed my opinion of appropriateness in context today, but, as strange as it sounds, I've gained an appreciate for what that photo means and what's really going on.
Matt should have known the image itself was shocking. End of story.
I have no problem with someone like Yojimbo posting the image in his own c-blog or if anybody else wanted to they could. It is their right and it relates to the story.
Matt however works for Destructoid. His articles are promoted by Destructoid to the front page immediately and under this employment, he represents what the company is in everything he writes. I've complained about Brad Rice, I've complained about Dale North, and I was going to complain about Matt but before I did he changed the image to the generic CoD logo.
Just because its the internet doesn't mean we don't have any decency.
I have no problem with someone like Yojimbo posting the image in his own c-blog or if anybody else wanted to they could. It is their right and it relates to the story.
Matt however works for Destructoid. His articles are promoted by Destructoid to the front page immediately and under this employment, he represents what the company is in everything he writes. I've complained about Brad Rice, I've complained about Dale North, and I was going to complain about Matt but before I did he changed the image to the generic CoD logo.
Just because its the internet doesn't mean we don't have any decency.
Shit was nasty in that war. You can use whatever pic you want but it doesn't take away that it was a gruesome war. At least this makes you think. Nobody can or should be offended by that picture. Will I be offended if somebody shows a pic of a Nazi killing somebody from my country? Hell no. Shit happened. The photo turned into an icon for that war. I believe that's why he used it. At least think about the nasty stuff while playing the next installment of CoD.
@Snaileb
What a thoughtful response. I wouldn't have expected otherwise.
@Snaileb
What a thoughtful response. I wouldn't have expected otherwise.
Holmes: "Some stuff is too serious to be used as fodder for entrainment."
So if something is super srs it should never have its story told via any sort of entertainment medium? Sorry but that's total crap. I agree with you if it's done without taste, but if it's done with proper care and attention I don't see how you could possibly have a problem with it. There are fantastic (and horrific) stories with valuable lessons to be learned and they should be told.
Not to mention I'm not even sure if you should call Schindler's List entertainment - is feeling like shit entertaining? Because I certainly felt terrible after watching that film. But it is enlightening, and serves to remind us of not just the evil that men can do but also good. It's powerful, and I fail to see how it could do more harm than good.
(More) On topic, the header image was massively needless and shouldn't have been posted. Yes war is horrible but that doesn't justify it. Of course he's free to post whatever he wants but it was always going to cause a fuss. I also can't see how it fits with Dtoids general ethos, profanity in titles are censored but a header picture of a man dying is ok? I'm scratching my head at that one.
So if something is super srs it should never have its story told via any sort of entertainment medium? Sorry but that's total crap. I agree with you if it's done without taste, but if it's done with proper care and attention I don't see how you could possibly have a problem with it. There are fantastic (and horrific) stories with valuable lessons to be learned and they should be told.
Not to mention I'm not even sure if you should call Schindler's List entertainment - is feeling like shit entertaining? Because I certainly felt terrible after watching that film. But it is enlightening, and serves to remind us of not just the evil that men can do but also good. It's powerful, and I fail to see how it could do more harm than good.
(More) On topic, the header image was massively needless and shouldn't have been posted. Yes war is horrible but that doesn't justify it. Of course he's free to post whatever he wants but it was always going to cause a fuss. I also can't see how it fits with Dtoids general ethos, profanity in titles are censored but a header picture of a man dying is ok? I'm scratching my head at that one.
Gamers this days seem to think that, just because it's in a video-game, war's supposed to be fun. It's not. Actually, one of the reasons I don't really play "modern" war games (Fantasy is all cool) is because they don't show the sheer brutality of real war.
Of course, they are games, so they don't have to, but I feel that war shouldn't be something light. War games should really have more heart wrenching moments, moments that you see and think "I'm glad I don't have to witness this in the real world".
Instead we have...
"BOOM! HEADSHOT!"
Of course, they are games, so they don't have to, but I feel that war shouldn't be something light. War games should really have more heart wrenching moments, moments that you see and think "I'm glad I don't have to witness this in the real world".
Instead we have...
"BOOM! HEADSHOT!"
@NateT
That's the problem with real life. There are no good guys or bad guys. No black and white morality. Everyone has their feelings on something and occasionally, you and your pals might argue.
That's the problem with real life. There are no good guys or bad guys. No black and white morality. Everyone has their feelings on something and occasionally, you and your pals might argue.
I love you Y0j1mb0. <3
Political correctness is for politicians and Tiger Woods.
I would like to believe we gamers are better than that.
Political correctness is for politicians and Tiger Woods.
I would like to believe we gamers are better than that.
I salute you, j1mb0. Well said.
Political Correctness is killing our culture, individualism and expression of ideas. Not to mention the horrible amounts of noise it throws into the communication model. The fact is that these games are in bad taste as it is. Does that stop us from playing them? No. But honestly, how many WWII vets do you know? And I can tell you that most of them were horrified to watch Saving Private Ryan (I knew 8, and many of them had to stop watching because it brought back very bad memories for them). And yet we make these games and play them *for our enjoyment.* It's sort of a twisted morality we possess. War is horrific. I disagree with the removing of the pics, because perhaps its time people actually LOOK at the subject matter they are playing a game about with a hint of independent thought and come to their own conclusions over whether it is 'appropriate' to play it or not. I never have liked games based on 'historical' things; simply because it exacerbates old wounds and stops the healing process.
Political Correctness is killing our culture, individualism and expression of ideas. Not to mention the horrible amounts of noise it throws into the communication model. The fact is that these games are in bad taste as it is. Does that stop us from playing them? No. But honestly, how many WWII vets do you know? And I can tell you that most of them were horrified to watch Saving Private Ryan (I knew 8, and many of them had to stop watching because it brought back very bad memories for them). And yet we make these games and play them *for our enjoyment.* It's sort of a twisted morality we possess. War is horrific. I disagree with the removing of the pics, because perhaps its time people actually LOOK at the subject matter they are playing a game about with a hint of independent thought and come to their own conclusions over whether it is 'appropriate' to play it or not. I never have liked games based on 'historical' things; simply because it exacerbates old wounds and stops the healing process.
