$89.99.
That's how much I spent on the latest ( and
greatest ) game this time. If I didn't spend that money on the game it could of been used for anything else that I could derive pleasure from. Anything from a night on the town full of alcohol and debauchery, to getting a decent meal, to getting three great games on one of my portable systems. I'm quite sure I could come up with more reasons under the radar but suffice to say my point here is ninety bucks I gladly exchanged for a fully functional quality product, feels that I squandered. Not because of a foolish choice or carelessness but because I was duped, yet again, into believing that what I bought would actually do what's it's supposed to do.
Let me start at the beginning. Last night was Destructoid's Friday Night Fights. A glorious night where we shut up and put up, where we stop talking about games and get our games on as well as our lulz. Imagine my surprise when I finished my tour with
COD4 multiplay with my fellow Dtoiders that I heard rumblings of
GTA IV , which just debuted last night on our own PS3 Friday Night Fights, multiplayer not working as it should. From early reports the game was working fine for a few and then *poof*, the game froze. Naturally your first instinct is to reload the game and that's when it happened. You couldn't even reload the single player game either.
What?
The game would go through the motions and then would just perpetually stay in the loading screen. If you were a patient man and would decide to wait it out, I reckon you would still be waiting now. Shipero called customer service and from what he gathered from them, it has to do with their stat tracking of the game through online. Another thing he found out as well was that Rockstar was quick to a point finger of blame at Sony. Now before the Xbox360 jockeys come licking their chops to drop comments here along the lines of : "
Should've gotten the Xbox360 " to "
No problems here on our end " these online problems are not just PS3 centric. There are more than enough online snafus to go around for BOTH systems as evidenced by our own Cblogs.
Looks like Niko needs alot more cover for that barrage.
There is a quick fix for the PS3 crowd to actually get their
single player to load and that's just to sign out and be offline.
Are you kidding me?? Over on the 360 side of things people are experimenting with their router settings and that sometimes help and sometimes doesn't. Sometimes the game plays online and other times it freezes. What is a definite is the game is problematic at best and unplayable at worst. This isn't high drama being spewed by me to get noticed either. This shit is as right as rain. There's no denying that Rockstar has a HUGE problem on their hands.
Ultimately it may be an easy fix with a patch, which I'm sure they are working on as we speak, and this event may blow over as a hiccup in an otherwise fine game debut. Yet haven't we heard this before from other game companies? Hasn't EA said they would release a patch for the PS3 Version of
The Orange Box awhile ago? Hasn't happened. Didn't Ubisoft say they would release a patch for both versions of
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 to optimize the online play and get rid of the little bugs present in the single player game? Hasn't happened. When is enough..enough? When are we going to get our fill of the bullshit that is being served our way via the bait and switch techniques of game developers and companies. Promise you one thing to get you to buy their product and then don't deliver on what has been advertised.
Do I have to question the integrety of what is being advertised in the back of their game box now?? It's getting harder and harder to trust game devs and their companies when shit like this is seeming to happen with more and more frequency. It's not like reviews help us here. Reviewers have the game before the public do, so in essence even they can't truly review all aspects of the game in question, due to them not experiencing the game the way it's meant to be played..i.e.. multiplayer modes. It's one thing playing a game online with a few people..it's another with a thousand people. Now I'm not as narrow-minded as to think all should be perfect with the game when shipped ( well yeah, I am ) but when multiplayer is a huge component of the game then I believe that needs to be taken into the equation when reviewing said games.
GTA VI is a beautifully sublime slice of gaming nirvana that needs to be experienced by all but
only when it works the way it's supposed to work. It's high time we as consumers take a step back and I guess play the waiting game. Wait til it's out in the open for awhile before we snatch it up without a thought. Stop just giving these people easy money for shoddy work. Might as well throw in reviewers as well. For better or worse, I feel like they need to wait for those games to be out for the masses and judge them for their online components as well as everything else. In the race of getting that exclusive review more and more game sites and periodicals are missing critiquing an integral part of the game. If more reviewers would start doing that and start reflecting this in their scores perhaps game companies wouldn't rush out a product lacking in quality and furthermore honesty.
GTA IV has been associated with a score rivaling the greatest game out there:
Zelda Ocarina of Time . Most are throwing out a ten rating. Now shouldn't that score be taken down a peg for this?? Shouldn't this major fuck up by them be taken into account when reviewing their scores? And why don't sites in general update their scores to reflect something amiss within the game to better educate the buying public at large? Some sure change their scores for the better for no reason at all.
Lookit, my goal isn't to pick on game reviewers here. It's to try to bring to the highlight that we in general, are getting fed substandard quality games at an alarming rate lately. So much so that we are getting accustomed to it. Be it through complaining to these companies, reviewing said games correctly, not buying into the mentality of prepaying our games and lining the pockets of these companies before the game is even
out.. something's got to give.
Some will say..
Aww give them a break ..the game is fundamentally good. Yeah let's give a multi million dollar game company a break because they chose not to deliver what they promised. Come again? The time for free passes should be over.
$89.99
That's how much I prepayed for a lock box, a small book, a Sample CD, a duffel bag for a midget, and GTA IV. The fun that I had with the game initially now is nonexistent due to it not even working right for me. When is enough..enough?
Now.
Very true! There was a time when games did what they were supposed to do: PLAY! But with games becoming more and more complex (and expensive) they become that much easier to screw up. These game companies need to stop trying to fill their pockets with money as quickly as they can and start producing a fully functional product from launch. Too much to ask for? Not for 90$!
Yup I agree, 100%. It scared me reading about how people were told to delete their save games when it wouldn't load.
In the quiet words of the virgin Mary "come again?" There was no way in hell that I would accept the fix of delete your 8 hours of gameplay to fix the loading issue.
Maybe we should ignore the multiplayer aspect of a new game when it comes out for a few weeks? But even that is bullshit if you ask me.
I'm sure Rockstar is working on a patch to fix this up, they are no EA when it comes to stuff like this.
Yeah I've been wondering about that too... Some say its because the games are so mutch bigger nowadays, but I don't believe that... the size should only impact development-time, not the amount of bugs left at the end of the game...
Sure, Liberty is HUGE, but if you count up all the different areas in other games and throw them onto one big pile you'll get something quite similar in size probably, yet in those 'other' games, a lot of people don't accept the same glitches as the do for GTA4...
I hear people saying its a great game, just the movement controls are a bit shoddy, I mean WTF? moving around is like the base of a game... if that doesn't work, the game doesn't work ( mind you I'm ok with the controls eventhough i like responsiveness of AC's-combat system better )...
there's also people going like "I don't like the way cars handle but man what a great game this is" wait... lets see that in slow-motion... you don't like the way cars handle in a game called Grand Theft Auto??? then what do you do?? how can a game be good if the core mechanic is not working as it should?? How can you say you think its great??
I have to say I really love GTA4, and I really enjoy playing it, I just don't understand how people can complain that for them the core-gameplay-elements are not working and yet they LOVE the game... if it was any other game, they would've hated it... Example given: The Club has the same viewpoint and its aim-run-gun-cover-system works a LOT better then the one in GTA4, yet a lot of reviews say its not responsive enough, while for GTA that doesn't seem to matter...
about the driving, finally the learning to 'gently' use the triggers in Forza2 is paying off :-D
so just to recap, I love GTA4, but a lot of reviews/players seem to be complaining about what would otherwise be so-called 'game-breaking' glitches and yet they're still praising it sky-high, i wonder how somebody without GTA-rose-hype-glasses would review this game... beacause its surely not a 'Perfect 10 game' to me, and from what i hear, most people seem to think that, they're just not willing to put it into writing :-D
yeah, i'm not getting this until a true fix is announced. i don't need another ut3 fiasco to up my anger 40 points.
It was my first FNF game too...but I'm sure a fix is on the way.
@mistic, i completely agree. if a game is glitching out, how the hell can you recommend others to buy it? it puts them in the same boat as you. but i do believe a fix is coming really soon. (hope they don't update it 5 months after the game came out like ut3.)
Allow me to point out something very important:
1) Ocarina of time was a complete game.... fullstop. a game that came with everything they had, on the disc. Games today are very different. Online play/interaction/sharing and the like, means the story has no ending... you make the game last as long as you enjoy it. And this is the difference btw the games back then , and this next gen collection... everyone has some ONLINE tacked on. Not to mention some DLC.
2) 89.99 ? thats for the midget bag , box and other stuff... but why pay out... simple. Marketing, hiring, developing and all the other crazy Hollywood stuff that goes into making the game. It takes serious investment and so they need to see some returns.
I totally agree with you jimbo.... but here is the focal point i believe needs tackling.
AFTER CARE, POST PURCHASE SERVICE, PRODUCT SUPPORT.... whatever you want to call it. Companies are not developing a strong "after sale" strategy to cope with the new included online elements in games. Be it hi-scores or full blown online multiplayer (MSO anyone?)
Companies in the FPS strain are ready and capable because its whats expected of the game. But games like MGO and GTA4 are finding this online business fairly new. And its not like they can stop. These strategies have to last for a very long time.
I am still on a waiting list here in Hungary, but i tell you i am in no rush to boot this baby up, not until i hear this stuff resolved..... good luck guys!
@Y0j1mb0
YSNF to make up for FNF?!
I agree this game has never been a "10" to me so far in game but game play is pretty solid, but that was before the freezing.
I posted about their so called "fix" and it's a fucking lame fix!
**Delete everything, unhook from the internet, turn of vibration, turn off auto save, turn off flicker feature...etc THEN place GTA4 next to your PS3 and play Uncharted and your GTA4 game will be fine.
Lamest "fix" I have EVER heard of they are basically making you start over, in single player mode only with no hope of going online, fucking bravo.
@Mistic
Great view!
You know, you didn't have to pay $90 for it. That was on your accord and you could have gotten the regular $60 version. But while I haven't had a problem with the online nor do I know anyone personally who has it shouldn't be like this and games are becoming more and more reliant on patches which is not a good thing
All I can say, is it's times like these I'm less sad about not having any of these newfangled consoleamajigs.
You could have bought 89 tacos for a dollar each with that money and have a little something left over for a couple of sodas from the vending machine.
I agree somewhat with you, mistic, but unfortunately you're just plain wrong about size only affecting development time. There are a bunch of factors to take into account (budget, number of staff, complexity of project, etc etc), and they all add up AND affect each other, meaning that the difficulty in making 'perfect' software increases exponentially with the software's size.
And then add in time constraints... i mean the game was already pushed back a few months, and i bet Take Two (they're the publisher, right?) was mighty reluctant to let them have even that.
They'll be working on at least patch, no doubt. As far as i can tell, these days most companies will throw a game out and see what goes wrong, because theres just no other way to find all the bugs.
That being said, the online of this game fucking up so badly is just not good enough, and they best fix it quick.
*at least one patch, sorry
Makes me kinda glad that I won't be picking up my copy for at least another two weeks, when I get back from my holiday. By that time I would hope that these issues would be patched up by the time I get around to playing. But still, Rockstar are pushing out unfinished products lately (Bully Scholarship Edition), but I can't see why. I mean I would have happily waited another few weeks for them to get their shit in order.
I have to agree, this is pretty ridiculous, especially since the same problems are occuring on both versions (XBX & PS3). I have to wonder though, if Rockstar play tested the game thoroughly, how could they have overlooked the problems.
I had the same fucking problem today. Im really pissed at Rockstar for this shit!
"GTA VI is a beautifully sublime slice of gaming nirvana that needs to be experienced by all but only when it works the way it's supposed to work."
Well that's the problem with it right there. If they didn't make GTA VI at the same time the made GTA IV while simultaneously skipping GTA V, none of this would have happened.
(Come on, I had to do that. :P)
The problem is unacceptable, but so long as I can play single player offline, I'll live. For now.
But you're right dude, what happened with that Rainbow Six patch? Online still kind of sucks with that game.
This is fucked up, although I'd be willing to bet that Rockstar won't fuck us over and not fix this. It's the biggest game release, well, probably ever. R6 is just a drop in the bucket compared to GTA, so hopefully they'll fix this.
meh, I guess this just adds to the list of games I haven't gotten straight off the bat when they are released.
Learn the lesson from the early adopters, you take the risk of actually eating the first load of crap and need to wait for the crap to be fixed. Not saying it's bad to get the game off bat, but just have this in mind.
I learned this big time from the release of the iphone.
I haven't had any game breaking problems (knock on wood) and I'm sorry for those that did. My issue is, having played the multiplayer aspects for the first time last night with the 360 FNF crew, the online portion is kind of boring. Its fun, but I expected so much more.
Also, I still can't figure out how to auto target with guns, when I pull the left trigger it just goes to free aim, even if my reticule is hovering over somebody. This is ok because I normally use free aim, however sometimes I'm feeling lazy.
Someone needs to take these devs to court on behalf of the gamers. Send a message to them so they know we aren't zombies, we want to hold them accountable.
@ ajaxender
yeah that's what I mean, it should only have impact on the time it takes to make ( due to larger groups, more work and all ), what I was pointing at is that it should not mean that more size = more bugs ( though that is mostly the case ). The end-version of a game shouldn't ever have game-breaking-bugs, let alone bugs that force you to start over ( and how far will you get then before you have to start over again if no patch comes out? ) and nowadays that seems almost common ( remember the 'driftsand'-bug in ASSCreed ).
accordign to nexgenwars.com, there's about 18 milion 360's in the wild, but there are just about 7 milion subscribers to XBLive, so 11 million people of which ( random guess from me ) prolly about 25% really doesn't have their 360 connected to the 'net... so they can't even get the patches that some of these games need!
I think, to be completely justified, those guys at IGN should adjust their scores for GTA, maybe even mention it in the review since it seems as if virtually everybody with PS3-GTA4 is affected by it...
I agree for the most part, but I don't think a score should be docked because a game has problems connecting to online play. The network issues don't make the single-player any worse, nor does it even make the multiplayer any worse. It hinders its operability, but I don't think it docks the "score" value of the game.
There's something wrong somewhere either on MS or Sony's end, or Rockstar's done something wrong in the game's code or what-have-you. Seeing as though these issues are in the minority, and not everyone is experiencing them, I don't think that review score should be lowered.
But yes, I do agree that these expensive games should have a lower failure rate.
they are to held accountable. it shouldn't make a difference if i got a 60 gig or a 40 gig. i think they know what goes wrong before they release it, but a patch is the idea of a full game. how the fnck did epic not know about the mics not working in ut3?because they can patch a broken game to fix it. i think its unbelievable and unacceptable. imagine if ford launched a vehicle with tires so bad they could cause the vehicle to roll over. (hey wait a second, they did) but recalled it eventually. these companys know damn well what's broken but the money moves quickly, so fnck em, we'll release a patch when the public notices these issues. we're sheep to them. baaaa
did you take it out and blow on it? that always works when games freeze up!
better technology = more money = more problems.
its our fault really we are the idiots willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money just to wait for a patch.
Yet another example of the sad trend of getting games out before they're well and truly done, while relying on patches to make it all better.
With the more complex games these days it's harder to de-bug, but there's no excuse for completely a major component being completely broken.
I don't know if I can let my heart trust a developer again, I may just get burned, and I don't think that I could take that kind of emotional punishment :(
P.S. Blizzard and Valve; I less than three you! :D
Sad...sad...truth...
Quality does not seem to be a priority for game developers right now...
There is nothing more frustrating then buying a game you have been anticipating for years, and then not be able to play it because the game freezes in the opening cutscene. Sure, the game is huge but how does quality control NOT catch a bug that makes the game 100% unplayable? I've wasted over an hour trying to get the game to work. The fact that developers can just throw a patch out there to fix things has turned alot of game releases into open betas. The whole ship it now, patch it later mentality really has to end. I payed my $70 (horray for canadian price gouging!), and I expect a working product.
/endrant
Funny, Hey Yojim remember that GTA4 got delayed a couple of times for, you know, quality assurance and that it was supposed to be working 100% with 0 problems. Guess they should have released it sooner if this was still the issue.
meh im being mean, but oh well, guess they didn't want to delay it anymore and needed to release it b4 evil EA ate them in one gulp.
Hear, Hear!
Y0j1mb0 speaks the truth. I haven’t been able to accept a single multiplayer invite that I’ve been sent so far — I always get this “Could not connect to game provider” error. What a crock.
What gives with the multi? I have a horrid connection and I've never had issues.
And why is it getting 10's? Dude, there's always been certain franchises that get a free pass, GTA is one of them.
I don't believe there is Multiplayer on GTAIV.
Enjoy your minigame of "Crash and Reboot"
SRSLY though, I have the 360 version, but I have noticed that sometimes it hangs up on the loading screen when I'm leaving a multiplayer game. Going to the dashboard and restarting the game seems to fix it up, but It is an annoyance. I thought these console games weren't supposed to crash, I thought that was the reason Console Games were better than their PC counterparts... What I've noticed is that as Consoles start getting the same bells and whistles that the PCs get (Custom content on the PSTriple version of UTIII, Downloadable Expansions, etc.), it also gets its many downfalls (Patches? on MY Console games? It's more likely than you think). GTAIV multi can be a prime example of this. This game was supposed to come out Fall of '07, but was pushed back to this last tuesday to polish up bugs and whatnot. What the haps R*?
I sold my Warcawks and bought the GTAIV just because i read how fun it was for you to play Cops and Crooks.
Right now, i have teh same fucking problem.
Game not loading, what the fuck!
I mean, I payed 80 bucks, for the version that doesn´t come with a lock box, a small book, a Sample CD, a duffel bag for a midget, and GTA IV.
Now I am pissed just like you.
It's not like video games bring me down, but too much shit is happening right now and I was beating hookers with a gat to get out of it. If shit continues this way I am gonna star blogging depressing blogs like Bahammunt.
@ TETA ......
YOU SOLD WHAT????
dude, i know peeps been raving and 10's have been thrown around... but why sell WARHAWK!!!
i guess you be suffering now for that deal. Here is hoping you get your patch.
I completely agree with Y0j1mb0 and Vitamin Awesome seems to have covered my complaints.
@Teta
Don't worry I've got your Warhawk problem covered. Just use my PSN ID and password I have sent you to download it again from my list.
@Teta
I'm sorry, I forgot Warhawk is one of the games you can't share. Fuck!
man everyone should watch this to forget about the problems of gta4 youtube = the late late show grand theft auto 4 awesome and funny. graig ferguson wants teenagers to get crabs. #1_in_the_hood_G!!
i guess they did
Reviewers really need to start taking these issues into account when they look at a game. The accepted practice seems to be to ignore most bugs/glitches because "they'll likely be patched after release".
Honestly I think we are all sick of being served this shit (being a PC gamer for many years I have plenty of experience with patching) but the fact of the matter is that while games receive favourable reviews and good sales in the state they are, publishers will simply not push back releases to fix them up.
What this situation needs is for people to collectively say no and refuse to buy an unfinished product. But when reviewers often glaze over faults how are we to know? This will never happen anyway, we seem to be heading to a situation where pretty soon you open a box to find a note saying "game to follow" but still people will buy.
i think you guys need to cradle y0j1mb0s balls a bit more as you fellate him.
or you can call him out for being the achy twat that he is.
these devs are not trying to get over on their consumers. these problems stem from there being so many different models of these machines out on the market and there is no amount of testing that is going to equal millions of people firing the game up all at the same time.
after investing 100 million dollars in making this game it would be absurd to not patch any bugs, even if its just to keep customer loyalty.
it seems like your either bitching just for the sake of bitching, or you just like the attention of other like minded conspiracy theorist losers
by the way, ps3 orange box did get patched.
I'm sorry but with a single play mode that Rockstar themselves considers an accomplishment to finish in under 30 hours, I think you can hold off on your lynching for a moment. you could always NOT buy the game. I seriously hope that you are not suggesting the other option: ANOTHER DELAY! Do you remember the worldwide sound of shotguns being loaded when Rockstar announced the last delay? Can you imagine what would have happened if in the month before GTA4 released Rockstar announced another delay? Riots in the streets! AND, you guessed it, there would be the tidal wave of people saying "Just because of multiplayer? they could have patched it!" Try to understand the amount of hype; the amount of pressure then ENTIRE gaming community has put on Rockstar to make this game perfect. That it lived up to even half of the expectations our overactive gamer imaginations laid out for it is impressive alone. I agree that reviewers tend to ignore this stuff, and that should stop. More than 60% of 360/ps3 gamers game online, and their concerns should be voiced in a review score. The fact of the matter is that there is absolutely NO WAY to simulate 3,000,000 people hitting a server at once. There are a billion unforseeable errors that can occur. There are memory issues that, on a small scale don't matter, but on a large scale break the game. These issues might not even appear in a debugging effort until the code is released in a real world setting. Look at Warhawk, the entire game is based around online play and stat tracking. When it first arrived there were many, many bugs. Stats dissapearing/appearing, undeserved unlocks, inability to join games even though they were clearly not full, kicks, timeouts, lag... and Warhawk has BARELY sold a million! Now do you honestly think that Incognito decided to ship the game knowing that it was broken, that the only way to play the game was messed up? No, obviously not, they shipped the game thinking that all the bugs they squashed in the Beta would be gone, and the game would play just fine. Gamers are an impatient bunch, and Game Developers do their best to satiate our thirst for a quality gaming experience in a timely manner. There is no such thing as perfect code, please try to understand that, and enjoy the very enjoyable game while they work to make it better.
@takkun169
So many different models? How many models of 360/Ps3 are there? A handful at best. Even between some of the revisions the changes are minor and wouldn't affect much.
If the problem was some obscure bug halfway through the game that resulted from a set of rare circumstances fair enough. But it isn't. GTA IV crashes at the start of the game, and when trying to play multiplayer. These are the two most common actions the game will ever perform. To have problems with these means somebody fucked up, plain and simple.
To have a game crash, on startup, on a console with a maximum of like a half dozen configurations is fucking stupid and shitty testing in the extreme. If it was picked up in testing, the decision was made to release anyway, which is equally shitty.
You can't justify stuff like that. this isn't the PC market with thousands of possible hardware/software configs.
Maybe the devs aren't trying to get one over, but you can bet your balls the publisher will do just that, every damn time.
Mine works fine Online, must just be poor people with bad connections.
Word to your mumma! Get a new ISP/Router you cunts.