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I think that Call of Duty: Modern Warfare did actually try to address some negativity in the nuke death scene. They actually played on the player's emotions of being a gamer. We expected our little guy to crawl out of the chopper, to get up, gradually regain health - and go kill some bad guys. When you die - it was actually a shock.
The same holds true for another segment of the game where you have to lie in a field. You're told to look down. If you peek, the enemy actually see you and it's section over, start again. It's incredibly difficult to lie there and look down, not up, not sideways, just down (especially when you can hear vehicles, movement, conversation of enemy soldiers near you).
Some games do try to incorporate negative emotions or impulses into the game and succeed - even when they are mainstream successful games.
Anyway, I know it's not the same thing as a game that devotes itself to exploring emotions/gameplay values more than games usually do, but just wanted to add that some games do try... a bit anyway.
Awesome musing... and now I'm off to check out your review of The Adjustment Bureau!! :)
The same holds true for another segment of the game where you have to lie in a field. You're told to look down. If you peek, the enemy actually see you and it's section over, start again. It's incredibly difficult to lie there and look down, not up, not sideways, just down (especially when you can hear vehicles, movement, conversation of enemy soldiers near you).
Some games do try to incorporate negative emotions or impulses into the game and succeed - even when they are mainstream successful games.
Anyway, I know it's not the same thing as a game that devotes itself to exploring emotions/gameplay values more than games usually do, but just wanted to add that some games do try... a bit anyway.
Awesome musing... and now I'm off to check out your review of The Adjustment Bureau!! :)
I never read Ulysses, but have read "A portrait of the Artist As A Young Man", and it bored me. It started out pretty well, but as I kept reading each paragraph, I got a picture of James Joyce jerking off in front of the mirror. Well, my choice of words can't express it correctly so I would let randy from South Park show you how James Joyce looked like when he wrote the book.
The problem is that the kind of challenge that you're referring to is indistinguishable from genuinely bad gameplay. Mostly because it IS genuinely bad gameplay that is, I assume, implemented to fulfil a higher purpose.
I still haven't made my mind up on whether everything outside of the boss battles in NMH being mindless, repetitive and boring (to greater and lesser degrees) is actually meant to be some sort of statement or not. I want to give Suda the benefit of the doubt but it's precisely for the reason that those aspects of the game were "improved" upon in the sequel that I have second thoughts.
I still haven't made my mind up on whether everything outside of the boss battles in NMH being mindless, repetitive and boring (to greater and lesser degrees) is actually meant to be some sort of statement or not. I want to give Suda the benefit of the doubt but it's precisely for the reason that those aspects of the game were "improved" upon in the sequel that I have second thoughts.
If your words were a person, they would be Thor.
Yeah, sorry, you can thank Monday for that one. Great read, as ever.
Yeah, sorry, you can thank Monday for that one. Great read, as ever.
@Elsa: That was an interesting little scene, but undermined by the rest of the game being so gung-ho, plus the player no doubt having died countless times before, and the player-characters being pretty much indistinguishable from each other. The ambition is to be applauded, but it was a very isolated moment in a game that didn't really suit it.
@VenusInFurs: Covered in ectoplasm?
@Vali: I think that in many cases where the use of negative emotion has worked before, it has been difficult to work out whether the design was intentional. However, I think that the aforementioned Ice-Pick Lodge games prove that 'negative emotion' gameplay can be designed deliberately and with a specific ambition that it achieves, rather than coming across as broken or misjudged (as some people said the NMH mini-games of being).
@Beyamor: AND THE INTERNETS IS MY MJOLNIR! (That's the best compliment I've ever had, by the way, so thanks!)
@VenusInFurs: Covered in ectoplasm?
@Vali: I think that in many cases where the use of negative emotion has worked before, it has been difficult to work out whether the design was intentional. However, I think that the aforementioned Ice-Pick Lodge games prove that 'negative emotion' gameplay can be designed deliberately and with a specific ambition that it achieves, rather than coming across as broken or misjudged (as some people said the NMH mini-games of being).
@Beyamor: AND THE INTERNETS IS MY MJOLNIR! (That's the best compliment I've ever had, by the way, so thanks!)
Heh, I remember a few summers back I thought I would "tackle the big dog" and read Ulysses. I didn't get too far :p
Interesting read! I like hard games, but it has to be a fair challenge. When the games rules are inconsistent or you are met with random or arbitrary obstacles or the game relies on the player exploiting glitches, it becomes less and less fulfilling and more about just getting past annoyances.
For example I really liked Ninja Gaiden Black, I thought it was a REALLY tough game that rewarded quick reactions, memorization, and knowledge about the game system. It could be frustrating as hell, but when I died I could often point to a mistake I made rather than the game being unfair. Ninja Gaiden 2 however just felt punishing. I managed to work my way through the game on normal but never got far on the next difficulty up, let alone attempt the Grand Master setting. Enemies that would fire projectiles off screen, random explosive shurikens chain flinching you to death, boss attacks that would sometimes come out one way but than another way the next, ugh. When I beat something in that game it didn't really feel like I figured it out, rather I just got lucky. I was further disappointed when I looked up some of the more challenging areas on Youtube and saw that the more effective strategies for the game usually involved exploiting a glitch or a hiccup in the AI.
Actually, I could have skipped rambling like this and just linked to TVTropes entry on Fake Difficulty! As long as a game is hard without falling into one of the listed pitfalls its golden!
Interesting read! I like hard games, but it has to be a fair challenge. When the games rules are inconsistent or you are met with random or arbitrary obstacles or the game relies on the player exploiting glitches, it becomes less and less fulfilling and more about just getting past annoyances.
For example I really liked Ninja Gaiden Black, I thought it was a REALLY tough game that rewarded quick reactions, memorization, and knowledge about the game system. It could be frustrating as hell, but when I died I could often point to a mistake I made rather than the game being unfair. Ninja Gaiden 2 however just felt punishing. I managed to work my way through the game on normal but never got far on the next difficulty up, let alone attempt the Grand Master setting. Enemies that would fire projectiles off screen, random explosive shurikens chain flinching you to death, boss attacks that would sometimes come out one way but than another way the next, ugh. When I beat something in that game it didn't really feel like I figured it out, rather I just got lucky. I was further disappointed when I looked up some of the more challenging areas on Youtube and saw that the more effective strategies for the game usually involved exploiting a glitch or a hiccup in the AI.
Actually, I could have skipped rambling like this and just linked to TVTropes entry on Fake Difficulty! As long as a game is hard without falling into one of the listed pitfalls its golden!
@Xander Markham
Not to echo too much what Wrenchfarm was also saying, it's just that I think that a lot of negative emotions can be aroused through fair gameplay rather than broken. Frustration definitely, Super Meat Boy was engaging and fun while being frustrating at the same time (but never unfair). As soon as a game starts throwing out unfair challenge I start to lose interest in it because it's lazily using poor game design when the same effect could be achieved through finely tuned good game design instead.
I don't know how some emotions like boredom could ever be a product of good game design and maybe there's some positive outcome from abusing boredom (NMH again). Would you elaborate on what purpose Ice-Pick Lodge's design choices are made? Maybe it's me being stupid and missing it but I couldn't find any mention in the article of the "thematic layer" that their bad gameplay choices add.
Not to echo too much what Wrenchfarm was also saying, it's just that I think that a lot of negative emotions can be aroused through fair gameplay rather than broken. Frustration definitely, Super Meat Boy was engaging and fun while being frustrating at the same time (but never unfair). As soon as a game starts throwing out unfair challenge I start to lose interest in it because it's lazily using poor game design when the same effect could be achieved through finely tuned good game design instead.
I don't know how some emotions like boredom could ever be a product of good game design and maybe there's some positive outcome from abusing boredom (NMH again). Would you elaborate on what purpose Ice-Pick Lodge's design choices are made? Maybe it's me being stupid and missing it but I couldn't find any mention in the article of the "thematic layer" that their bad gameplay choices add.
