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Two dimensional fighting games are a very interesting genre to me. It's my personal belief that games should be as simple as possible in order to allow everyone who has a natural interest to be able to enjoy them. That doesn't mean I want games to be dumbed down, mind you. This is a matter of good design. I'm seeking to become a graphic designer some day and I imagine it's not just when you're learning design that you're taught this: Simplicity is elegance. When you strip away everything that's non-essential and eliminate all the clutter, you're left with a strong and most importantly pure design. The thing that makes 2D fighters interesting to me is that I feel they're about as elegantly designed as possible, yet not just anyone can enjoy them. You absolutely need someone to teach you how to play if you really want to discover the real meat behind the entire genre.

When you think about it, even the most basic of things need to be taught to you when it comes to 2D fighters. In other games you can just randomly mess around with the controls and eventually something will happen. Not so with this genre; not when it comes to doing any of the fancy stuff. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who wonder why anti-air motions are so complicated, why super moves require multiple rotations of the joystick, and why sometimes you even need to press more than one button at a time. The answer is simple; it's all part of the design. It's not as if these motions are created simply so that new players have trouble playing the game. It's because you cannot accidentally pull them out and they require time to use. Have you ever wondered why 3D fighters traditionally don't have super moves? It's because if you could pull such moves off too quickly they would be too powerful. Maybe we fighting game veterans just haven't discovered a more elegant solution to these examples, but at the moment I would say the basics tenants behind the 2D fighting game genre are polished to perfection. 

The fact that you can't just automatically learn how to play a 2D fighter is an unfortunate but necessary thing. Making these games any simpler would distill them rather than purify them. It's not an inherently bad thing, though. In a way it's something special about these sorts of games. Everyone has a story behind how they learned how to play 2D fighters. When I really go back and think about it, I have an extensive history dating back to when I first met some people online playing Gunbound, after which they introduced me to their online fighting game community.

This is way back when I was too young and broke to buy my games. There's a story that chronicles each player's growth and steady development, and the fact that you need other people to help you is part of why fighting games have some of the greatest potential to breed a sense of community out of all the gaming genres. Every player has several phases they need to go through in order to grow as a player, and most of the early phases revolve around pushing past some mental blocks. It all really starts with being able to wrap your head around the game, and I've yet to meet the person who just understood everything on their own.



I won't go into the details of my own history as a player learning from others, but I will say that I nearly hit my limit several times. When you first get into fighting games there is this concept of certain things being "cheap." It's not something that the average person just gets right away, and it's not likely something any person would ever get if they couldn't find people they understand and respect who can properly explain to them why "cheap" doesn't exist. Even if a certain tactic seems unfair logically if you're capable of using the same tactic then it's not possible for that tactic to be cheap; simply "not fun." When you first start out playing fighters you don't really understand the whole picture, and it's the fact that you don't understand some things that make "cheap" parts of the game "not fun." There are a great number of things that you need to keep track of at once when playing a fighting game: how safe your attacks are, where you're standing in relation to your opponent, balancing between offense and defense, and so forth. The belief that something is "cheap" usually doesn't spawn from the fact that it's actually cheap so much as you're still missing a certain piece of the puzzle, where you become aware of the dozens of small details required to become competent in a fight.

I personally had issues with the concept of playing safely. I would put myself at risk in a fight because I would often use flashy moves that left me very vulnerable. These moves were likewise slow and could be easily countered with quicker poking strikes. Because I didn't understand that I just shouldn't constantly use slow and unsafe attacks, I felt that pokes were cheap and because of that I didn't want to use them. Had I been playing with people who didn't help me understand I would have continued to not have fun. Eventually I would have quit playing, still ignorant to the fact that I just didn't understand balance. Because there were people teaching me how to play I was able to overcome this and learn that using pokes myself helped balance out the fact that I was prone to taking risks. There are admittedly several broken tactics in fighting games, but anyone worth their salt has to learn to just deal with these things either by playing a different game or by adopting these unfair tactics for themselves. That is another phase you need go through when learning fighters, and yet another that ideally entails having a teacher. This sort of relationship between newcomers and veterans is something I feel is becoming sparse. I feel it may have had a part in the 2D fighting genre becoming stagnant, when veterans became so well practiced that newbies were too intimidated to try their hand at the game. Only very recently was the genre revived with the release of games like Street Fighter IV and BlazBlue. It's getting to the point where fresh blood is entering the ring again.

What it really comes down to is that really learning how to play a fighting game requires a lot of commitment and personal investment, and you rely on the people around you to provide you with the motivation to put yourself into the game. Whether a veteran decides to help a newbie or not, there are worse things out there for the fighting genre. There are people who don't rely on others to motivate them to play. There are people who play fighting games for the personal satisfaction of feeling they've stomped on somebody. They're the kind of people who only act like they're having fun when they're winning, which means they really aren't having fun at all. They're just using competition to satisfy a selfish need to feel superior. These are what we call destined assholes. These are the sort of shitheads who speak about "pwning newbs" without being ironic about it. I can't say I have a lot of respect for these sorts of people, especially because I attribute them as a strong factor to why fighting games died out.



There's a cycle of life required to keep the fighting game community moving. To push your own skill level you need strong competition, yet to keep your competition strong you must bring in new players. Even if you're playing against some of the best competition available, simply playing the same people over and over will eventually stunt your growth. Not only that, but veterans retire. No matter what you do you cannot keep people playing forever. Everyone eventually burns out and at the very least needs to take a break. If the community never takes it upon itself to teach new students, eventually there will be nobody to play anymore. This is a truth that very few members of the fighting game community seem to realize, as many are averse to going anywhere near a player that isn't of the same level of skill. Too often veterans in the fighting game community see no value in spending time around newbies and avoid them. It's understandable. Most skilled players don't look at themselves as teachers, so naturally they'd see no benefit in playing against people who pose no challenge. It's still possible for these skilled players to foster a positive environment that newcomers will naturally be curious about, it's just that these newcomers will have to feel adventurous enough to forget about the fact that these skilled players may be intimidating. The real problem is there are members of the fighting game community whom actively drive people away.

What happens when a community takes no strong efforts to teach new players while at the same time there are members of that community actively making the community a negative environment? What happens when the first person a newbie meets is another person who has no grasp on the concept of simple pleasantries? Simply put, what happens when a jerk decides to take all the fun out of the game? Easy enough since all these questions have the same answer: players no longer have motivation to commit themselves to that game when the fun has been stripped away from the experience.

A particular example comes to my mind. Among the community I first learned to play 2D fighters from: there was a person that quite clearly, nobody liked. Let's call him E-MO. E-MO was a douchebag. He would argue incessantly because he couldn't handle being wrong, he would try to prove to everyone how good he was because there was clearly no other reason to pay attention to him, and most important he spent all of his time being arrogant and making sure that nobody else could have a good time. There were some unpleasant or excessively harsh people in the community but nobody else compared to how soul sucking E-MO's presence was. The only motivation to play against him was to hopefully shut him up and it wasn't a very satisfying experience whether you won or lost. You just wanted the fucker to go away.

People like E-MO played fighters seemingly because they had personal issues more than anything else. They didn't thrive on the social experience or even the simple satisfaction of getting into a good game. People like E-MO just played so that they could act like the alpha-male. Funny; considering you need other people to care to be an actual alpha-male. E-MO wasn't the only person who wasn't fun to be around; he was just the worst example. Eventually people like E-MO were my primary motivation to leave that community and spend time by myself down at the arcade. Unfortunately for me my arcade has some solid competition, but only sometimes. Going there was a gamble between finding someone fun to play against and wasting my time with random tourists who were going to destroy the arcade cabinet. It wasn't until I came to Destructoid perhaps years later that I really took a serious interest in getting my game back on. People like E-MO continue to keep me away from various "hardcore" fighting game communities.

Everyone knows "that guy." The one guy who as soon as he shows up you want to be somewhere else. Having one "that guy" is enough, so imagine what happens when "that guy" multiplies into "those guys." Because of the fact that people like E-MO were obsessive about winning, they would often gain some skill. Because of this many hardcore communities become saturated while nobody makes an active effort to remove these unpleasant people. People like E-MO have a tendency to stick around while other people leave because people like E-MO don't play games for the same reasons other people do. This is terribly unfortunate because people like E-MO don't have what was required to make fighting games worth playing. They don't have what it takes to make the game fun short of being able to scotch-tape their mouths shut. I blame people like E-MO for what eventually led to the death of the 2D fighting game genre. Seriously, there was a period where the genre was pretty much officially declared a dinosaur. Most people were probably ignorant to the fact that 2D fighting game communities had basically accepted their own gradual death. Street Fighter IV had created something of a miracle that nobody thought would ever occur. It gave the genre a chance to reclaim the limelight when everybody thought there was only room for games like Tekken and SoulCalibur anymore.



The 2D fighting genre now has a chance to make a comeback, but if history repeats itself I could easily foresee another end of an era. I'd rather not see the genre's popularity be bound down again. It's not as if I have definite proof that such a thing ever happened in the first place, but either way the fighting genre isn't just about the game; it's also about the people you play that game with. What really keeps everyone coming back to the game is having a community to spend time with during down-time. Whether you're just playing with friends, joining a posse at the arcade or just meeting up at an online forum: when your community strips away the fun of the game eventually the player-base will fade. The players will eventually find something more rewarding to do with their time.

I honestly don't feel most people deserve to be competitive. The majority don't understand the concept of being a good sport. Hopefully this is something else that can be taught, but I somewhat doubt it. I feel that being a good sport entails being a well developed person, and that's an entirely different walk of life from what I'm talking about. It's a more important walk I might add; but one that people have to go on themselves. When you can't push aside your personal issues long enough to even display the most basic of pleasantries you've failed everyone. You've failed the community that you've done nothing but harm and you've failed yourself for being such an unlikeable dick. Every human being has some basic need to interact with a community on some positive level. An inability to find this sort of positive response from people around you will naturally lead to your own unhappiness. Typically treating other people like dirt only goes to show that you feel like dirt yourself, even if you don't personally realize it.

There are more important things in life than being good at fighting games, especially when it comes to simply succeeding in life as a human being. Trust me when I say there is truly no excuse for being an ass, and I implore everyone out there to consider that doing their best to breed a happy community has no downside. When we've eliminated the people out there who don't play games for fun, we've narrowed it down to all the players with the greatest potential in the first place. We'll have truly simplified everything to the point of elegance. If the community can ever reach this point, I feel we'll have reached the point where fighting games will never die again. When you bring people together who genuinely love what they're doing together there's no reason for them to leave. Rather, there would only be reason for the opposite to occur.

Credits to RoCatr88 from DeviantArt for the above image. I felt a picture of Street Fighter IV and BlazBlue characters being bound had a certain metaphoric punch to it. Truth be told, I just randomly found this in a Google Image Search.

An additional note: From now on my King of Fighters Love Letter series will have an additional home at orochinagi.com. The Web site is undergoing renovations with my introduction as part of the front page staff being among them. Everything I write will show up here first, but I'll be taking some time on the side to try and revive the popularity of SNK fighting games.








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75 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 12:20
Occams electric toothbrush
The first Marvel vs Capcom came out and me and my friends were at the arcade playing it all the time. It was a blast. I knew an E-MO or two as well. They were shunned very hard by most of us. Hell, I even saw one of them get beat up for talking shit to a guy's girlfriend. That was pretty neat.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 12:31
Mike Moran
@Occams: That's pretty hardcore. Marvel vs Capcom was actually the first fighting that that introduced me to the concept of competitive play. I was like 12, though. There was an arcade I used to like to go to way before the one I mention in this article. The people there were way older than myself and I probably lost horribly, but I was intrigued by seeing better people play. MvC was probably the only 2D fighter I played with enthusiasm on my Dreamcast, prior to becoming a fan of the genre in general.
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 13:31
Occams electric toothbrush
I was fifteen when Marvel vs. Capcom came out in the arcades so I played a bit more competitively but it was still in good fun. A dream of mine is to one day own a cabinet if the game and keep it at my house. I've even almost bid on a few on ebay. I can remember being.....oh, nine or ten and playing the first Street Fighter at the local skating rink and getting decimated. It was fun though. I think that's what drew me to arcades in the first place.
BulletMagnet's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 13:55
BulletMagnet
Some of what you mention here also applies to the shmup - for some time now the genre has had to appeal to an increasingly inbred, "hardcore" base which sometimes treats newer players pretty badly. Recently, though, publishers have been taking some chances on these games, and people are starting to tentatively check them out again - like you, I hope that existing players make at least some effort to ease people into things, as opposed to screaming them down as soon as it becomes clear that they're not tourney-level material.

Fighting games are definitely the front line in this sort of conflict, though - hopefully someone out there in a position to change the prevailing mindset is listening to what you say here.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 17:28
Mike Moran
@Bullet: I plan to do what I can to help influence at least the Destructoid community. It's my viewpoint toward fighting games which led to me creating the Fatal Destructoid tournaments. I really like the idea of being a trainer instead of a competitor and I think so far we've managed to get entrants who have a good time. I'm hoping the Mark of the Wolves tournament continues the trend.
mourning orange's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 17:53
mourning orange
There is so much truth in this blog it almost hurts.
grafkhun's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 19:23
grafkhun
Couldn't say it any better meself.
TheDirtyHobo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 19:53
TheDirtyHobo
Great article. First half reads like it's straight out of Sirlin's book (which I recommend anyone who wants to get better or be competitive at anything, not just fighting games, to read here).

Second half really went in to detail about what I felt I was missing with Street Fighter IV. I love playing online for the inter-personal competition, but the 'community' for that portion of the game is really lacking, largely because of only having 1v1 rooms instead of groups where you can get a mentor/teacher to watch you and tell you what your doing wrong, help you improve, etc. I really need to get in some sort of local active community for the game, but I'm too shy/lazy to actually find one. Maybe Super will fix a few of these online problems, but I still think some of your best learning will be done face to face, so I need to get out there.

Side note: I didn't quite catch your 'metaphoric punch' the first time around, but that picture definitely did make me feel some sort of emotion. In the upper pants region.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 20:09
Mike Moran
@DirtyHobo: The idea was to symbolize Street Fighter IV and BlazBlue being constricted by a poor community. As huge a King of Fighters fan as I am I'm not fooling myself in thinking that King of Fighters XII is making any huge waves in the industry. I'm hoping that King of Fighters XIII makes a comeback the same way King of Fighters XI did with improved online play being among what it offers in the future.

Thanks for the input. I've read Sirlin's early work before he went and made a book but I never thought I'd be compared to him. I've also been called the SNK Big Mex, which is something of an honor considering that man's extreme dedication to Street Fighter.

The person I got that picture from seems to have a bit of a fetish, I might add. I found that one picture randomly but checking out the rest of the stuff in the gallery shows off quite a lot of similar material.
TheDirtyHobo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 21:01
TheDirtyHobo
Oh, no, I got the metaphor, I'm just saying that wasn't my first thought when I see two of my favorite fighting game women tied up.

I'm sure it's just personal preference, but I really, really can't get into SNK's fighting games (except Samurai Showdown, but I hardly ever run across one of those cabinets any more). Tried quite a few of the KoF games, and even MvsSNK1/2, but just didn't appreciate it the same way I did most Capcom's games.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 21:08
Mike Moran
@DirtyHobo: SNK fighters are what got me serious about fighting games so it's only natural for me. In a lot of ways they're very drastically different from Capcom fighters, but it's not as though I hold a grudge against people who can't get a feel for them. My next tournament is going to be Mark of the Wolves precisely because it's probably the most Capcom-friendly fighting game SNK ever produced.
Y0j1mb0's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/22/2010 21:33
Y0j1mb0
What a fantastic piece. Good stuff as always Wry.
the7k's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/23/2010 00:31
the7k
Oh man, "That Guy". "That Guy" was my roommate in college. He'd always play CvS2 and MvC2 with the most "not fun" combination possible (3 Sagats, how original...) and then either act like a douchebag when he won, or pitch a fit when he lost.

I wish I could figure out some good ways to get new blood into fighters. One of my groups of friends plays with me, and they're good, but I get kinda tired of playing with them all the time - the other group flat out refuses to play with me. Any tips on getting people to play?

And yes, I definitely agree that it's the "Superiority Complex" of most fighting game enthusiasts that killed the genre. No one wants to join a community that is filled with assholes.
the7k's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/23/2010 00:36
the7k
@ TheDirtyHobo
Did you play KOFXI? I've gotten a few of my Capcom-Only friends to play it, and they loved it. It's only about $5-10 in most places, so it wouldn't be a steep investment.

Other SNK fighters I've recommended to Capcomoholics include Garou: Mark of the Wolves & Last Blade 2 - might also like Neo Geo Battle Coliseum, but that one is very polarizing, for some reason.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/23/2010 00:46
Mike Moran
I personally thought Neo Geo Battle Coliseum was kind of a lazy looking fighter, but I can't deny the appeal of playing as such a diverse group of SNK characters. I'm also one of those people who has just as much of a soft spot for KOF 2003 as KOF XI, but 2003 was also my first KOF. I still contest it is nowhere near as broken as people like to contest. If people can play Third Strike with Yun running around, they can play KOF 2003 with Duo Lon running around.

I don't necessarily have any huge tips other than just being a cool person who can display his enthusiasm. If you've got the time I recommend you join the Fatal Destructoid tournaments, and if you have skill and a general knowledge of SNK fighters perhaps help me train others. Since I'm now front page staff at Orochinagi.com we may eventually do cross-community tournaments, though Orochinagi has a very fractured community at the moment. I'm hoping to help the site rebuild itself.
TheDirtyHobo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/23/2010 01:12
TheDirtyHobo
KoF XI was a PS2 game, yes? I don't think I've played it yet, but I remember the cover very vividly for some odd reason. I only played the XBL demo for Garou, thought it was alright, but I didn't have my fightstick at the time, maybe I'll retry it soon. And to be fair, I hardly gave KoF XII a shot, but I was coming off of a BB/SF4 high and was so disgusted with my first impression of it I returned the rental within an hour of getting a crack at it.

I want to like the games, because I love the competition element of the games, win or lose, so why not expand my library, but I just have yet to find 'that game' for me among what I've played from them.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/23/2010 01:52
Mike Moran
Well Mark of the Wolves is a very, very complex game and probably the one I'll be most qualified to train people in come the next Fatal Destructoid tournament. At first glance it may not impress you, but pay attention to us as we play and maybe you'll be tempted to join yourself. Tough to say. King of Fighters itself has many intricacies. Maybe this will give you a solid idea of why King of Fighters has such a unique feel to it. this video teaches you just about all the KOF essentials, and I might add the guy has great taste in King of Fighters music to boot.

I'll probably be using this tutorial video next time I start up a KOF tournament in particular.
Sean Carey's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/23/2010 06:22
Sean Carey
I'm the most casual of fightan players, and even a dragon punch is a strain for me. But, I really appreciated what you had to say here.

The way I relate to it is the coffee house mentality -- I used to be really into chess, and when I played at coffee houses, there was a community around it. Very competitive, but others who would watch and even your opponent would be happy to talk through strategy and the pros and cons of different styles and attacks before, during, and after games.

It was cool that the love of the game drove everyone to learn and even to help one another learn. Nice write-up!
EraVulgaris's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/23/2010 18:26
EraVulgaris
I own SFIV. I really, really enjoy it. Every time I go online, I do well in a match or two, lose 15, and get so butthurt after a painful loss that I rage-turn-off-my-xbox as soon as the match is over. Repeat in a few days. I'm taking a break because of losing against Gouken. Your 4th paragraph is exactly how I feel.
frozenbabylon's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/23/2010 22:33
frozenbabylon
Man. Fighters. I don't know if I could do that to myself again... I used to love fighters when I was growing up. I was pretty good at the first few Fatal Fury games. Street Fighter up to the Alpha series. And I remained a pretty casual fan for a good long time mostly rocking the Tekken and Soul Calibur games until I picked up MvC2.

I bought it on Dreamcast and started playing. I spent the next 2 hours getting beat over and over again on the first fight. I got so pissed off that I ended up snatching the game out of my Dreamcast and snapping it in half. I regret the decision, mainly because I could have gotten my money back (25 bux!) But I swore to myself that my fighting game days were over and I haven't looked back since. Most of the time, I don't regret it, but sometimes, I get the itch and I know if I scratch it, It might be something else (more expensive) that suffers my wrath.

Good read man. I didn;t know any of `that guy` but I guess I never got into competitive fighting (For good reason.)
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/26/2010 23:40
Wedge
Posted at 3:00PM 3/27? FRONT PAGED FROM THE FUTURE =O.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 01:27
Mike Moran
@Wedge: Yeah, it's been on a timer since a couple days ago. I guess BulletMagnet had the page bookmarked or something, I'm guessing that's how you found it.
shinobiflip's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:13
shinobiflip
I suck at fighting games but man I love playing them. Hundreds of dollars in quarters back when MvC2 was in the arcades, met alot of nice people. Good times.
True Axiom's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:27
True Axiom
Good article. I don't have a lot of experience with competitive fighters (SSBB isn't really competitive, and...I play BlazBlue but I suck), but it rings true in some other genres too. Most noticeably in puzzle games like Puzzle Fighter. There's an elegant simplicity, and I feel like 2-D fighters embody the same idea.

This post made me want to play Blazblue again seriously, though, which is a good feature.
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:28
Chris Carter
I used to go to tournies (made second place at Tekken Tag, and SNK 2), but my love for fighting games died after King of Fighters, Guilty Gear, and Tekken started to fade from the limelight.

Also the fact that Capcom still hasn't topped SNK 2 in my book.
Aos's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:28
Aos
I love love love this article so much.
Airbr1dge's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:30
Airbr1dge
I remember when I started playing fighters like SF3 and stuff online. I wanted to get better (and still do) so at the end of a match I would ask my oppenent for some tips. Sometimes I would get some help but mostly it was "get better fuckin noob.". I'm still pretty bad. But I am better at them then before.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:47
Mike Moran
@Magnalon: Oh, god. Capcom vs SNK 2, my truest of loves among Capcom fighters. The groove system was just too brilliant as annoying as Roll Canceling could be. When I'm talking about going to the arcade in this article, it was totally for Capcom vs SNK 2. There wasn't another fighting game that anybody there played with true seriousness. Some people dabbled in KOF XI down there, but not much.

It's not a competitive fighter but in a way I still think SNK vs Capcom: Match of the Millennium on the Neogeo was just as great a game.
Dv8thwonder's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:51
Dv8thwonder
3 games does not make revival. Now excuse me while I go back to 2-D fighter heaven a.k.a Dreamcast.
Ninja In Distress's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:59
Ninja In Distress
^LOL you're welcome to join us in the present any day now
KingSigy's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 15:59
KingSigy
Not a bad blog, but you finish your point and then there's another 6 paragraphs. Still, I agree with a lot of what you say, but I still manage to have fun with my friends playing Street Fighter all night.
Solidus187's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 16:00
Solidus187
And for those of us who aren't able to go to that many local arcades anymore, these E-MO type douchebags are now replaced with hundreds of whining little kids. Equally as annoying. Is that a trade-up or a trade-down? I don't know, but at least these E-MO douchebags are actually good at the game.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 16:20
Mike Moran
@Solidus: Playing with strangers without a mute button has historically been a bad idea that ends up hurting the brain. That's why I mostly just play with D-Toiders these day.
Paul Soth's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 17:39
Paul Soth
Anyone who's ever delt with Jinnmaster knows that pain.
Dv8thwonder's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 17:42
Dv8thwonder
So basically E-MO became king of Xbox Live if I'm not mistaken.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 20:11
Mike Moran
@Dv8thwonder: In a sense, yeah. That's a really bad thing for fighting games too. I'm setting up tournaments founded on all the principles in these articles to try and help out around here. I'm hopefully getting some more people into the genre, we'll see.
Tyler Jones's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 20:26
Tyler Jones
Great article, man. I'm just getting a feel for fighters, and I keep trying to get my non-fighter friends into them. It usually doesn't take though.
I'm also looking for some more experienced players to show me the ropes some time. If you do another Fatal Destructoid I'll have to get in on it.
ICLHStudios's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 20:31
ICLHStudios
It was interesting to read the opinions of someone who obviously loves fighing games, as what you said here: "I would say the basics tenants behind the 2D fighting game genre are polished to perfection" is the exact opposite of my thinking on the subject. I view the current standard of mechanics for fighting games to be not only a dead-end concept, but an absolutely horrible representation of everything that makes combat interesting, fighting games may be decent games but they pale in comparison to what they should and could be.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 20:34
Mike Moran
@JusticeDude: I just announced the next one today. Check the community blogs and look for Fatal Impact. That's the new tournament title.

@ICLHStudiots: The question is how familiar you are with the way that 2D fighters play on a high level of play, and if you can find suitable substitutes. 2D and 3D are extremely different realms, which is why I even take a moment to describe why 2D mechanics don't work at all outside its own genre.
Mr. Leo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 20:46
Mr. Leo
Great article, now I'm gonna go play some Street Fighter IV.
Not online though, bad losers who disconnect when things get tight are more common these days.
Retrofraction's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 23:09
Retrofraction
SC2 had super moves
neoREgen's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 23:29
neoREgen
Smash Bros. is the elegant simplicity most 2D fighting games never quite achieved.
Or, at the very least, it's closer.
fuze54's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/27/2010 23:53
fuze54
This was a really good article seeing as I've never lost hope on fighting games, but for a time it was really hard because the friend's I had always played for fun but at the same time competitively (did I say that right?), had all started to stop playing fighting games. They either just "grew up", moved onto FPS's, or just lost that spark to play fighting games. I still tried really hard on my own by using stuff like mame to play Marvel vs Capcom online and met some really cool people, but it was getting increasingly hard to stay in "fighting shape" because, there was less great competition, just soulless level 9 fighting bots. But man did that change with the purchase of my playstation 3 and games like Blazeblu, Street fighter IV, and (for a time) Tekken online. Blazeblue and Tekken was the greatest though because I met some really really cool people while playing those games with headsets on. lol, it's funny really fighting games had a sort of etiquette when you think about it. A couple of people who have more than just one fight with each other, start to talk about stuff non-chalantly about random stuff, but also tips on improving each other and complimenting the other on that sweet combo you pulled off. But you won't even need to say it when you both know that it's time to try hard and truly get serious about going for the win. It's DEAD SILENT (minus a couple of "damns!" and aw "craps!") unless its the mid round break and the end. I just love it, knowing that there's people out there that just like getting better and it makes you think about what you can do to improve your own skills. Check out some combo lists, think about what the hell you do wrong, and try to best those guys online again. Keep in mind, it's all friendly, but that friendly rivalry is just, like NOTHING out there. Still miss the good ol' times when all my friend's would gather around and play all the old capcom and snk classics. eh' memories! (sorry for all the grammar mistakes.)
VGFreak1225's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/28/2010 00:20
VGFreak1225
I guess this is why now that I've just gotten into Street Fighter II last year, I can't for the life of me even finish Arcade on easy without giving up a credit. I really should check out what we have going on here on Dtoid regarding fighter communities; same for SFIV and TvC.
VGFreak1225's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/28/2010 00:22
VGFreak1225
Also, Patriot Snake drastically takes a statement out of context. Film at 11.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/28/2010 00:32
Tubatic
Really good article.

I'm pretty consistently just bellow really competitive as a 2D fighter player. The only reason I'm even remotely decent as a Chun Li player is from YEARS of play with her and her style.

But community is a HUGE part of it, for sure. Now, as a wisened gamer w/ job, I actually have a co-worker that realyl gets into fightan strategy. He'll drop over pretty regularly on break and just start talking shop with me. What's happening with tourneys, things he's learned while trying to pick up characters in BlazBlue and SFIV. I don't know that any of it has made me a better player, but its been great hanging out just outside the hardcore world of fighter mastery.
HijaLoveHijo's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/28/2010 04:43
HijaLoveHijo
@wry guy,
Great article.
Have you tried the older KOF's? especially 96-98? I think that was the golden age of SNK fighting. The emphasis on 'in-your-face' battles instead of projectile wars was one of the things that made KOF better for me. That said, I like SF4 and I wished a lot more players would play the arcades here in NZ.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/28/2010 04:46
Mike Moran
@HijaLoveHijo: KOF 98 is among my favorites in the series easily, but I wasn't around for the golden time when KOF 96 and 97 were the hot games. I tend to like all the KOF games, though. Even the black sheep games like KOF 2000 and 2003 I feel are worth playing.
Themightylebeau2009's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/28/2010 05:42
Themightylebeau2009
Ace article, I have loved 2D fighters since SFII on the SNES. When in college we had a X-Men CotA and Mortal Kombat 3 machines. We only ever played for fun but you could guarantee some E-MO would turn up and try to ruin everyone elses fun. He used to brag about how he would spend all his free time in the arcades at the local mall. How we hated that guy. I suppose they are a necessary evil though.

Im playing a lot of Tatsunoko vs Capcom right now, offline and on (mainly on...) and am really pleased with some of the matches I have had. Sure, every so often you get someone who has a stupidly high ranking, but then they use PTX-04 all the time.

But mostly I have had some great experiences online, just a shame theres no way to get in touch after a 5 or 6 match session with one player to tell them thanks, well done etc.

If anybody here plays TvsC online, Id love to play you at some point.

@ Wryguy - This article is seriously rocking.

@ VGFreak1225 - You noticed that to eh?
lo6ick's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/28/2010 06:26
lo6ick
nice editorial. i likes. now i feel like playing sf4, minus the douchebags
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