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Nothing is sacred: Sequels photo

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People might look at me a little strangely for implying that sequels are a sacred cow of gaming. "Everyone complains about sequels!" The thing is people complain about getting the sequels they didn't ask for, while at the same time complaining about not getting the sequels they did ask for. For example: It's oh so common to complain about Madden sequels. Admittedly even the fans of the game have an unspoken rule. "Don't buy Madden every year. Not worth it." However people harp endlessly for other games. "Because this game is dear to my heart I demand more of it!" "More Silent Hill, more Final Fantasy, more Metal Gear Solid!"

Now I won't deny that these are all good series, but if you look a little deeper you might realize that these games and the people who constantly demand them are holding their creators back.

Silent Hill's original creators were not allowed to leave the series at rest. When they decided the series had reached its creative end, Konami did not. Now an American company is taking their creation and dragging it through the mud. Silent Hill is a subtle series that had an incredible amount of creative force driving it in its earlier days. Now a group of people who don't understand that subtlety are creating cheap imitations.

Hideo Kojima is indirectly forced to continue working on Metal Gear Solid endlessly, clearly not wishing his own series to suffer the same fate as Silent Hill outside of his care. He publicly proclaims he doesn't want to keep working on the series on a constant basis, but he knows Konami will keep on pushing out sequels whether he's there or not. The best he can do is to make sure the series stays in good hands, but Metal Gear may be getting too out of hand even for him. Kojima has likewise publicly stated that he can't even follow his own storyline as much as he'd prefer; yet there are already two more down the pipeline as of this writing.

Final Fantasy
has quelled the creative power of Square Enix as a whole, facing a similar situation to Kojima on a much larger scale. Final Fantasy fans rabidly demand more of the series faster than the company can produce them, and some are even livid at how long XIII has been taking. Likewise the company cannot simply ignore their lifeblood, and in order to sate their hunger the company dedicates all its resources to development of main titles as well as an endless deluge of spinoff titles in between. Even though the main Final Fantasy titles themselves are fairly unique, the time when their older ideas like Einhander and Brave Fencer Mushashi could have flourished are long gone. Even the closest thing they have to that in Kingdom Hearts can't escape the name of Final Fantasy. Their fans are not open enough to new ideas to support attempts to branch out without a specific logo attached to it.

These are all cases of companies and series that I think have lost at least some of their creative drive, because honestly I think the fans are in more control than anyone else. Their money and demands are what's driving many of these games to continue being made, and how is it possible for anyone to really be at their best when someone else is telling them what they should be making? How can any game be at its best when the original staff isn't even present to work on THEIR creation? Obviously it's not all the fault of the fans, but I'm hoping the fans themselves can realize that they're partially responsible for these creations going on as long as they have. Even the more extreme cases like Tony Hawk and Guitar Hero, where the company itself has the mentality to exploit the series on at least an annual basis: it's the peoples' money that supports that mentality.

Shigeru Miyamoto has to be the only man I can think of that has the power to simply make what he wants to make and not suffer for it. His name is so iconic and his influence so strong within his company that it's doubtful he could be forced to do anything. Though Zelda itself has borne many sequels, it continues to advance creatively with games like Wind Waker and Four Swords. I'm not claiming that Miyamoto is the only mind behind the series, but rather I'm admiring the series itself for being able to make controversial choices. I'm not against sequels themselves so much as sequels that have lost their creative drive. Likewise Miyamoto isn't limited to just working on certain series because his company tells him so.



The man is free to create new series like Pikmin, based on his own gardening hobby; or Wii Music, based simply in his own desire to help younger people appreciate music. I'm fairly certain Wii Fit was partially his idea as well. Say what you will about Wii Music, but I will endlessly encourage that man to continue making what he wants to make even if I don't really care to play it. I love Zelda, but if he continued to come up with genuinely new ideas I could be happy with there never being another sequel in the series ever again. That sort of freedom represents something of more value to me by leaps and bounds. We have plenty of great Zelda games as is. I can always replay my copy of Link to the Past if I want to experience Zelda. I won't ever get a chance to see anyone's other creative exploits if everyone goes in with the mentality that we need more, more, more.

Tim Schafer is likewise a man who doesn't buckle down to sequels. He creates what he wants to create, and generally does not ever announce plans for sequels. I could imagine that he does everything he wants to do with each of his games. Some creative minds consider a game complete and not needing expansion upon finishing the project. I can't tell if it's fortunate or otherwise, but it seems that the reason for his creative freedom is because he doesn't preoccupy himself with money. While it's great that Double Fine isn't limited in the way so many other companies are, it's a shame that more people don't just support him. Brutal Legend may finally be the game that changes that, but honestly I don't expect that loyalty to persist. Brutal Legend is more relevant to current interests than his other works, and I don't expect Tim to keep on making games like that. Quite possibly this game will be a one-time deal, in part again because he makes what he wants to make and many people would rather have a sequel than expand into further unfamiliar territory with him.

I'm not sure how to put this, but I think gamers don't know how to really appreciate a unique experience. To clear things up, I have no intention of saying people shouldn't play sequels. I play fighting games and their updates frequently. I would be a huge hypocrite if I made that sort of claim. But still, I think what I said holds true. When people play a really good game -- something really different and interesting that compels them to become familiar with it on a really deep level -- so often they can't be satisfied with just that. I hold that even though they might appreciate the game itself, they don't appreciate the fact that it is unique because they blindly start searching for more of the same. Once a sequel comes out, people are just too ready to buy it without question. People should really question more often if a game's really run out of creative steam. If it has, there's a good chance the people making it don't actually WANT to anymore, and we should spare them.

Seriously, guys. Don't tell me there's no game out there that you don't want a sequel to when one isn't necessarily needed. Cult-classic games like Ico, Okami, Jet Set Radio, and Skies of Arcadia are all very popular choices for the "We need a sequel treatment." We don't need a sequel unless the masterminds behind those games decide themselves a sequel is needed. We want these sort of things because we love the games, yes. The desire for a sequel is fairly natural. But at the same time we do the very things we love a disservice by pushing for further works that weren't ever intended. If we don't seek to be less demanding, every one of our dearest gaming memories could some day be drug through the dirt until it no longer has any value, and then what good did our love do? If people really want to view games as art, then we can offer peoples' creative works a little more respect than that and trust those creators to do what's best.


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47 comments | showing # 1 to 47

MkShiranui's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/09/2009 20:39
MkShiranui
"Cult-classic games like Ico, Okami ..."

Come on, you knew that was going to piss me off!

It's to the point I'm considering writing the blasted thing myself.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/09/2009 20:43
Wry Guy
@mkshiranui: Writing what?
MkShiranui's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/09/2009 20:47
MkShiranui
The (second) sequel to Okami. I guess I wasn't clear. And yes, it should be left to the original creators, but they're not exactly around, are they?

[Sighs.] Sorry, I tend to get worked up about this. To be honest, I already have a few ideas down. Is that a solution? More public participation?
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/09/2009 20:54
Wry Guy
I don't know, but I also think you miss the point. They're not around to make a sequel to Okami, but did they WANT to? It's bullshit that Platinum no longer owns the rights to the game had that been their intention, but it's a totally moot point if they had no intention of ever making another.
MkShiranui's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/09/2009 20:56
MkShiranui
...

Never mind.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/09/2009 21:20
Wry Guy
I understand the love for Okami. It really is a great game. I tried editing the article slightly to be a little more understanding of the reason people want sequels.
MkShiranui's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/09/2009 21:34
MkShiranui
Yeah. I know. I was sort of pulling your leg there ...

I agree with you if you change the word "sequel" to "expansion" and assume the release dates are relatively close. Most of the add-ons to games I've played feel rushed, as if all the good ideas were put forth in the original.

That said, the best games are good because they "immerse" (I know what I'm doing, MegaStryke) the player in their world. Okami was so large it could easily fit in several sequels.

That doesn't mean they should be churned out like the Final Fantasy series is. An extreme opposite of this would be Starcraft, which was released in 1997 and is getting a sequel next year. Thirteen years. Everyone, including me, agrees that with that sort of time delay, SC2 will be nothing short of GOTY.
Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/10/2009 01:05
Elsa
True enough! I like sequels. :)
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/10/2009 02:09
Tubatic
I'm not a big fan of what's happening with the Metal Gear series. Its done, and it feels like Kojima meant for it to be done. I think Leigh Alexander spoke breifly somewhere about how Metal Gear Solid 4 is in fact an extended metaphor for Kojima's dislike for the continued sequalization of his series.

I don't think she went into great detail, but I really see it now. Old Snake being dragged out for "One More Mission". Raiden becoming more awesome and fighting tooth and nail to keep up with the legend of Old Snake, like some new idea trying break through and have its own spotlight while suffering severe cuts and damage along the way. I haven't thought alot about it, but I can imagine it goes a bit deeper than that.

OK. Maybe its a little silly to consider MGS4 as an "art" game. But, its a fascinating conceit for a game that, more than any other game I've played, places the most satisfying and firm end cap on a chain of lore. I would be absolutely fine with MGS4 remaining the last Metal Gear that ever was.
Blasto's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/10/2009 02:55
Blasto
@ Tubatic-- Woah, that's deep 0_0 ...and I'm not being sarcastic. That's pretty awesome.
snoogans775's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/10/2009 15:24
snoogans775
@Tubatic, that was the first thing I though when I saw the big Old Snake pin-ups. I felt like I was looking at Kojima, bitter and jaded.

there's an interesting distinction between sequels and expansions. At GDC, someone made a point about how games like Halo 3 and Jak 3 shouldn't be called new games, but should be called expansions and people should charged equivalently. In Japan, they don't necessarily call sequels new games, they only refer to new genres or breakthroughs as new games. All sequels are considered spin-offs, unless they completely revolutionize the subject. The Japanese are way more aesthetic than almost any other culture, and I prefer their method for discerning a novel experience.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/10/2009 15:57
Wry Guy
@Snoogans: An interesting viewpoint, and I can see where people are coming from when they refer to a new entry in a series as an expansion. Often new titles such as Silent Hill, expanded upon their universe and lore with the links between Silent Hill 1 and 3, 2 and 4. Still, whatever you call it I think games are too often made in excess and should be just laid to rest when the proper time comes. I'm so very bitter about Double Helix being allowed to treat the corpse of Silent Hill however they so please.

I will never forget the pointless use of Pyramid Head for the sake of fan service.
MkShiranui's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/10/2009 16:00
MkShiranui
That's true, but the definition of "expansion" as I understand it is that an expansion requires owning the original game to play or at least to understand. Brood War was an expansion because it both required the original SC to be installed and was an uninterrupted continuation of the original story. SC2, on the other hand, picks up decades after the original and has completely changed around many of the concepts. That is a real sequel.
Lunacy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/10/2009 20:55
Lunacy
I very much agree on all your points, although I'm not sure what would happen if a franchise like Final Fantasy were to stop in its tracks because, creatively, it had been there and done that. I can't think of a second series in a similar situation off of the top of my head, and of the ones you mentioned Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid don't really fit my example, so anyway. Just pretend I'm talking about x series if it fits the bill.

If SE decided that XIV was the most Final of all the Fantasies, and that a persistent world with constant content updates was the way of the future, would anybody be happy with that? What would happen to the people currently working on FF XIII, Versus XIII, and other assorted spin-offs? Would we see an increase in quality in the Last Remnants and Infinite Undiscoveries, or would they just cut some people and pat themselves on the back?

I can't really imagine being a part of something as big as Final Fantasy and then just quietly letting it fade into the shadows for the good of the brand, which is why we won't really see any lasting change when it comes to this. Nobody makes "expansion packs" anymore... In this day and age, we like to call it "downloadable content," or, in the case of Activision, releasing a nearly identical game every year and maximizing our profits.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 16:14
Tubatic
Also, I agree with you about Wii Music! I happen to think its a great idea, but aside from that, I think its great that they let Miyamoto just rif now. Whether its setting the world on fire or not, its really interesting to see different ideas packaged up and put out by a "big name" developer personality.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 17:20
Wry Guy
Yeah, exactly. The man has new ideas. Everyone gushes about Pikmin. That was based on his damned hobby. Man just rolled with his idea and got something good. Likewise I've met families that actually were very fond of Wii Music. The game has some merit. It's brought some happiness to people. Some families like to bond with it, some people like to use it as a drunk party game.
Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 12:17
Jonathan Holmes
This is gonna sound dumb to a lot of people, but in alot of cases, I'm actually more interested in seeing a port/remakes of older games than I am seeing a sequels.

Katamari Forever was a bit disappointing, but I still prefer it to Beautiful Katamari. I'd much rather have a graphics/controls enhanced port of the original Jet Grind Radio than risk seeing a sequel from a new creative team get it all wrong.

Bionic Commando Rearmed Vs the "now-gen" Bionic Commando is a perfect example of where I'm coming from.
kce05d's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 12:45
kce05d
reading this got me thinking "I wonder what kinds of unique gameplay experiences I missed out and will continue to miss out on because of more mainstream sequels that I buy"
On a related not: I think it would be great if we had a section on D-toid dedicated to a compilation of unique games and gameplay experiences. That way, great experiences won't be missed out by the unintentionally ignorant.
Randolph's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 13:03
Randolph
I like sequels, will continue to ask for them, buy them, play them, and love them. Cry moar, your tears fuel me.
Fredrick2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 13:07
Fredrick2003
You pretty much said everything I have wanted to say regarding sequels. I can't stand the fact that we get sequels to games that we really don't need, nor do the creators want.

I agree with you so much on Silent Hill. Playing Origins and Homecoming were heartbreaking experiences for me. Whats worse, I bought them, encouraging this destructive cycle, now we have some game on Wii and I have decided to not purchase it. I will rent it, at best. I hadn't realized I was directly responsible for this problem until you blatantly pointed it out.

People often defend the new Silent Hill games with statements such as "you are just mad that the developers are American", "the games weren't THAT bad dude", or "the series is EVOLVING (wtf is this, Pokemon?)".

Where the developers come from do not concern me, that point is that these are NOT the original developers, and thus have no idea what the developers intended. It pisses me off when they attempt to "fill in plotholes" when the creators clearly intended for it to be up to your interpretation. Apparently, these guys have the "correct" interpretation, you know this because they have the license -_-....

Yes, the games weren't THAT bad, but they weren't needed, I hate needing to clarify that I mean Silent Hill 1-3 when recommending the games to people, otherwise they come back with "homecoming sucked". It did.

hahah

You struck a nerve with me man, excellent article. I had put off making a Destructoid account for awhile and this finally inspired me to sign up, I will direct people to your article every time they ask me why I get pissed regarding unnecessary sequels.
Fredrick2003's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 13:09
Fredrick2003
Oh, one more thing, not all sequels are bad. Uncharted 2 is awesome I will be playing that forever.
makesfive's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 13:20
makesfive
yes, but sequels can be the very things that generate funds for more experimental projects. Not that I'm all 'buy crappy sequels to support companies you like' or anything, but I certainly don't begrudge companies for doing something that's going to make them reliable amounts of money.
Blue Odeyssey's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 13:29
Blue Odeyssey
Ive gottta say im one of the worst kind of consumers, im always wanting more sequels and am one of a very small group who actually believes most sequels are better than there original counterparts. What people need to understand is that when a game makes a connection with the player on a level of entertainment like all good games do then it is obviously going to make the player want more after the original iteration is complete. In my personal opinion there is not such thing as an uncessary sequel as there will always be fans who want a continuation of the series in question.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 13:36
Wry Guy
@Randolph: Right. You miss the point.

@Fredrick2003: But of course not all sequels are bad. I just don't like seeing developers being tied down to games they don't really want to make. Sonic Team is a good example of the kind of horrors this can lead to. I don't think anyone's ever confirmed it, but rumors have gone around that Sonic Team is basically a sweat shop now. They're forced to make Sonic games. I could bet you the reason they suck is because they aren't allowed to do anything else.

Sonic Adventure was one of my favorite games as a kid. Admittedly it's a little dated now, but at the time it was new and interesting, and Sonic Team itself had other projects like Phantasy Star Online and Chu Chu Rocket. They were allowed to make what they wanted, and they really should have succeeded for it. Stupid Dreamcast failing for possibly a dozen reasons. So much creativity, so little reward. I don't know what could possibly have saved them at that time. It seemed everything was against them.

@makesfive: It's hard to actually begrudge a company at all, really. They are a company and it's not like people are extremely invested in them (if they're reasonable.) Like I said, sequels themselves I have no problem with, if the game was something the developers actually wanted to make. When it gets to the point that sequels are made for the point of just having sequels though, I won't knock a company for doing it but I'll probably stop buying the games.

If they really do use that money to go make new ideas, that's great, but I probably will always lament the beating of a dead horse, especially if I ever loved that horse.
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 14:24
Dexter345
Well said.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 14:26
Wry Guy
@Blue Odeyssey: Again, I'm not totally against sequels and I do acknowledge in my article that it's natural to want more of something you love. Still, I think they hold people back. While you may want more of the same, you're not the one making the game. For a creative mind doing the same thing forever can be like torture.

Imagine if you were a writer who had to write the same story over and over again, only slightly different. You ran out of ideas a long time ago because you're basically writing the same story, and you're really tired of doing it, but your fans would rather buy that story from you than buy something interesting and new that you might want to do instead. Now imagine that new story idea you wanted to make absolutely never happened. Wouldn't that suck?

Zone of the Enders 3 comes to mind.
EggmaniMN's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 14:26
EggmaniMN
The Mother series is the perfect example for this. Shigesato Itoi only creates a game in the series when he feels as though he has something worth writing about and feels very strongly for it. He doesn't create the games just to create a new entry in the series. He makes something because he has a passion for the things he enjoys. And when he was finished with Mother 3, he said in interviews that he probably won't do another game in the series unless the perfect topic comes along for it.
MkShiranui's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 14:34
MkShiranui
Sequels aren't always more of the same; in fact, the most successful sequels introduce entirely new mechanics and devices to the game. The Age of Empires franchise comes to mind, since Ensemble is adamant about adding new features to each incarnation. As a result, it's one of the best-reviewed series in the genre. The same applies with storyline: the best sequels have enough room in the original to expand indefinitely.
GoldenGamerXero's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 14:36
GoldenGamerXero
I like game series where sequels are either the same basic game with additions that make it superior or take on a different angle with the same quality as the last. It would be foolish to ask the same freshness as a new IP from a sequel but they should at least try to make some sort of progression.

I would like to hear some opinions on what classifies as milking a series and what's just the countinuation of one. I hear complains that Final Fantasy has gone on too long (I've said this at one point myself) but too be fair 13 main games from a large company from the NES days to this generation isn't that bi8g if you look at it.

@EggmaniMN

I wish more people would realise that and follow that example. Game creators need to have a good concept behind the game before they just decide to churn one out and fans need to stop asking for games that the creators don't want to make.

Everytime I see someone complain that Mother 4 isn't being made I dislike the world a little bit more.
DR EGG's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 14:41
DR EGG
It's the same thing for the movie industry. Demand + Big Company Owns Brand = Sequels

Imagine if The Big Lebowski had a sequel. It'd sell like hotcakes, but would undoubtedly cheapen the original material.
Keriaku's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 14:42
Keriaku
Then again, there are times when demanding a sequel has worked out well. Kingdom Hearts, for example, was said to be released as a single game. Then when it was shown that there was interest, Nomura expanded the series, world and story tenfold and it's still going strong.
artha14's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 14:55
artha14
"he's just going through a bad hair day! Leave cloud alone!"
artha14's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 15:05
artha14
Some of the best games don't get sequals. Tucking marketing killing unique games :(
Blue Odeyssey's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 15:42
Blue Odeyssey
But if someone truly has the creativity to create the original product that the public crave then they must have the ability to incorporate similar mechanics into an entirely new game while keeping certain aspects in line with the original. Final Fantasy is the perfect example, each game is totally different and creativity is not contained within a set formula, there are a few staples which are key for it to retain its identity for example Chocobos.
The only aspect a sequel has to have is to retain a section of the previous name in most cases (Brand Awareness), a name is just that, it does not limit the potential a game can have. You use the idea of a writer creating the same the story each time over this conveys you views very clearly and I can see where you are coming from but if a writer has write sequels there is no limits as to what he/she could do under that title, just because certain limitations would be in place in order to relate to the previous incarnations it doesn't mean originality is stunted. I hope this made sense, I think it does.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 16:11
Wry Guy
I can see what you're saying, but the big problem is that if you don't want to make something you don't want to make it. A person's greatest creativity comes out when they're doing something they really want to, and the games industry rarely just lets a game series lay to rest when the people have decided they've done everything that they wanted to do.

Some series have a time when they deserve to be left to rest. You don't need to perpetually create games in a series forever. That's my point. Quality over quantity is a good motto. Final Fantasy is a good series, but none of the Final Fantasies are what you can actually call sequels. What you can call sequels are the endless deluge of side-games made because of rabid fan demand, stunting Square Enix's capacity to create something aside from Final Fantasy on the side.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 16:20
Wry Guy
Though admittedly you never know if Square Enix really does want to continue making Final Fantasy VII spinoffs. Hard to say.
MkShiranui's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 16:33
MkShiranui
Hmm ... Maybe the developers can distract the fans by going into merchandising. You know, plushies, posters, artwork, that sort of thing. Then they can develop any existing sequel at their own pace.

Nah, there's no way that would work ...
Vigilante8's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 16:55
Vigilante8
Look at Naughty Dog and Insomniac, they let Crash and Spyro go... they simply stoped to do those games and moved away to new things! Crash and Spyro became whores of the industry, where players wanted more games and more games with their names on the cover were made by other developers. The result? SHIT!!!

Crash an Spyro games stopped on Crash Bandicoot 3:Warped and Spyro: Year of the Dragon to me...why? Because the original team it isn't on the development team anymore, that's why!

I would love to see another Crash/Spyro game made by Insomniac and Naughty Dog again, but hey! There's Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, Resistance and Jak & Daxter out there now, thanks to their decision to do new things!
dj-anon's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 17:09
dj-anon
Wry Guy:
The problem is that most people only see video games as just that: games. Therefore, variations or improvements in gameplay mechanics, accompanied by the obligatory graphic augmentation, will be enough for the vast majority, regardless of how degraded the quality and inspiration of the original essence is.

You'll see that amongst reviewers and gamers. Was SH: Homecoming a competent game? Yes. Was it scary? Depends on the person, but at least was creepy. Was it a true SH? Simply, no. But since it is not a failure as a game, that's enough for most.

The question is: Why do we deserve better, when editors on this site and the community with its blogs keep on fapping off to announced sequels or the possibility of them? Buy oh yes, when Kotick comes out and says he only wants to make sequels, we immediatly start yelling "GREED", "EVIL"...

The problems is not iteration, the problem is that most times we are the ones asking for the abuse and whoring out of the idea we originally liked.
The Silent Protagonist's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 17:10
The Silent Protagonist
To be fair, some franchises do make the effort to constantly reinvent themselves, such as Final Fantasy or Castlevania. If there has the be a sequel, that's better than just doing a sequel thats a mild enhancement of the previous game.

Expansions can be argued to be sequels depending on the product, but in offline product they tend to be more of a sign that the initial product is incomplete (oh hi Fallout 3 GOTY Edition, nice you finally got done and all those kinks were worked out a year late.)

Rock Band 2 is the only Rock band this generation will ever need, though. The very nature of the game is to be constantly something that cab be added to.In this respect, that's a good thing. Its something I wish sports games would consider doing, rather than being roster updates with a few tweaks.

all that said, I can kind of excuse a slew of sequels when the developer strives to make and publish new content. Atlus is a great example of this. There's a Shin Megami Tensei title almost every half-year these days, not to mention all the loving attention games in that series get, I can't help but appreciate what Atlus does. Atlus does bring out original properties and goes to bat to publish for others as well, bringing even more fresh content under their banner. I root for Atlus because the bring the right balance

I do think Tim Shafer and Miyamoto have it the best, though. I wish more developers had the kind of freedom they enjoy.
joebish's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 17:11
joebish
If more of the same is what you need, then you should have it DLC'd.
Wry Guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 17:24
Wry Guy
Atlus and Shin Megami Tensei easily get a pass. They make a lot of SMT games, but they're ridiculously different from eachother. In the same way that Final Fantasy fans bicker about the best game, SMT fans are fairly opinionated about which are the better SMT games. Because they're different.

We do get too many of them, though. My wallet can't handle it.
the guy with the hat's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 17:45
the guy with the hat
I like sequels I just don't like bad games
Hopeless Savage's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 18:17
Hopeless Savage
I wouldn't exactly say the new Zeldas and Marios have maintained much in the way of creative drive. Mario's been collecting stars for going on 14 years like there's no other way to chart progression in a 3d platformer, and I wouldn't say Wind Waker or Four Swords were radically different from their predecessors in any substantial way.

If you ask me, sequels are best when they elaborate on the potential and concept of the original. The Hitman series has done a bang-up job expanding on the formula with every successive game up to Blood Money, which is almost not even comparable to the first game, Codename 47. I don't know about Okami and Skies of Arcadia, but Jet Set Radio could definitely benefit from similar expansion- the game was spectacular in style and form, but in function it left something to be desired. (Ico shouldn't need a direct sequel though that's silly.)

Likewise with Killer7, which I'm going to bring up for no reason- fans of the game know that it was rushed through development, and the end result bore little resemblance to the original design doc, and many of us would like to see the game without the heavily Resident Evil influenced puzzles and the frustrating and occasionally unpolished (though completely unique and amazing) mechanics, but... actually I have no comment to tie up this sentence, but let's just say it's completely impossible to make heads or tails of any of Suda51's public statements.
ninjalegend's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 19:23
ninjalegend
I really don't think the fans have anything to do with the blight of sequels. You want your fans to like your game. You want them to make sequels.Tell me Super Mario bros. has anything on Super Mario 3. When they start getting out of control, that is another fault entirely. It is to risky to go to unknown territory. This has happened because developers release total crap (Facebreaker, Castlevania Judgment, Golden Axe: Beast Rider), or can't find their target audience and make a game that INTERESTS them (Psychonauts, Beyond Good & Evil, Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars). Some of these missteps could be prevented with a little sitdown and some focus. As for the bringing out a bad game, regardless if it was because of time restraints or your project just stinks this go round, it's just bad form. So publishers are afraid. And rightly so, look at all the crap that comes out. Even our favorite companies do some lame stuff. GTA on the ds? Come on, where is your target audience.

In closing, there will always be great new IPs like Assassins Creed to break up the monotony. And there will always be great and much needed sequels like Assassins Creed 2. Treat the problem, not the symptom.
Edge2k10's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/18/2009 03:38
Edge2k10
The biggest problem with sequels is when the company doesn't take enough time to make them. I mean what I SE made a numbered Final Fantasy every year? It would be rushed and pathetic. I mean people would still buy it, but at what price? However because they take years to come out with the next installment it keeps people interested and wanting more. The exception to the rule would probably be Persona 4. That game came out like a year or so after 3 but was still freaking awesome. Yeah it used the same graphics and basically the same fighting engine, but there was enough change to keep me happy.

Sequels aren't a bad thing, they are just used badly (Guitar Hero). Some series deserve sequels. I would kill to have a proper Lunar 3 in my hands right now, or how many times the thought has crossed my mind to write a letter to Tecmo and Nintendo demanding they bring Fatal Frame 4 to America. See sequels are needed but the companies involved should also take the time to develop them properly, by implementing new and creative ideas.

Now as for Metal Gear Solid, I never have understood why Kojima hasn't remade Metal Gear, and Metal Gear 2. That would be awesome! It would be a good chance to fully complete the story of the Solid universe, while maintaining the integrity of the series. Also after those are out of the way, if Konami still wants to make MG games, they could start fresh with new characters. I'm talking fully fresh, not even talk of Snake or Raiden or anything else. The longer Konami clings to the series roots, the less of a chance it has of trying to make it move forward.
KrazyKraut's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/18/2009 09:40
KrazyKraut
very good....loved this article. Like you said:
"We don't need a sequel unless the masterminds behind those games decide themselves a sequel is needed."

Sometimes a Sequel is so uneeded like often a prequel.....or you wanna wish to see Forest Gump 2? Or Forest Gump: The Beginning?
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