Fantastic blog. I could not agree more on how frustrating it is when pseudo-'realistic' experience suddenly bring in some tired old mechanic that breaks the cohesion of the game's reality. Assassin's Creed is a perfect, infuriating example of a series of games desperately needing a defining set of rules as to how gamey - or not - they should be allowed to go.
My time with Arkham City has been very limited, but it sounds like the developers used the more fantastical elements of the licence alongside clever design decisions to create an experience where the gaming clichιs were turned into a vital part of Batman's world and character. A very engaging and well-argued read, kudos!
My time with Arkham City has been very limited, but it sounds like the developers used the more fantastical elements of the licence alongside clever design decisions to create an experience where the gaming clichιs were turned into a vital part of Batman's world and character. A very engaging and well-argued read, kudos!
Yeah I usually don't mind collecting if it's fairly easy but The way the Arkham games do it is pure genius. Even just the pull of adding to the story and tying up loose ends makes it worth going to the trouble of doing them. It's rare when a game even bothers to give you anything beyond "hey good job, here's a power up or something". Good read sir.
Awesome blog! I haven't yet played City, but Asylum was one of the most surprising and satisfying games I've played in years for exactly these same reasons.
fantastic blog... almost makes me want to try a Batman game... almost! :)
On Assassin's Creed... yeah, the first game sucked with all the stupid mandatory quests that added nothing to the story and became extremely repetitve after a short while... I must say though that they apparently learned and the second and third games in the series allowed MUCH more latitude for gamer preferences allowing people to skip many of the side quest options that held no appeal.
On Assassin's Creed... yeah, the first game sucked with all the stupid mandatory quests that added nothing to the story and became extremely repetitve after a short while... I must say though that they apparently learned and the second and third games in the series allowed MUCH more latitude for gamer preferences allowing people to skip many of the side quest options that held no appeal.
Great blog!! Actually your spiel in the recaps the other days is what got me to start playing through Arkham Asylum after I bought the game at the beginning of the summer and hadn't touched it till this point. Pretty awesome so far. It's amazing how badass they made Batman feel. Can't wait to get around play this sequel.
Arkham City was my GOTY.
The combat was so damn satisfying. You feel so powerful and intimidating, but the moment you skip a beat, you're vulnerable to attack. It makes you very human, gets you into the mindset of The Bat, and makes you learn from your mistakes. Especially, on the New Game Plus; which strips you of your cues.
If you just spam the buttons, or rely on the counters, you're missing out on being adventurous, and that's when the combat becomes intense.
Hey, don't forget about the boss fights. Those are as "gamey" as they come, and yet, each fight perfectly lives up to each character's strengths (the God Hand-esque fight with Ra, the old-skool Grundy smackdown, the methodical predator hunt with Freeze). Even when it gets OTT, their main aim is to entertain in a comic book fashion, and for that, I had some of the best gaming moments in a long while.
The combat was so damn satisfying. You feel so powerful and intimidating, but the moment you skip a beat, you're vulnerable to attack. It makes you very human, gets you into the mindset of The Bat, and makes you learn from your mistakes. Especially, on the New Game Plus; which strips you of your cues.
If you just spam the buttons, or rely on the counters, you're missing out on being adventurous, and that's when the combat becomes intense.
Hey, don't forget about the boss fights. Those are as "gamey" as they come, and yet, each fight perfectly lives up to each character's strengths (the God Hand-esque fight with Ra, the old-skool Grundy smackdown, the methodical predator hunt with Freeze). Even when it gets OTT, their main aim is to entertain in a comic book fashion, and for that, I had some of the best gaming moments in a long while.
SELF ENTITLED TOPSAUCE! =P Or you could say I "overruled" you to put it there . . . <_< . . . >_> . . . =D
Very enjoyable and well written blog! (I might replace the term "gamey" with systematic/formulaic) Every point is approached pragmatically and objectively, and I get a real sense of enjoyment reading that your experience was similarly satisfying to mine!
The combat is the best beat 'em up this generation. The stealth blows even MGS games out of the water. The exploration takes the freedom of Assassin's Creed, adds the staggered path branches of Metroidvania games, and when combined with the first two elements AND an amazing story, you have the best action adventure game in recent memory.
The combat is the best beat 'em up this generation. The stealth blows even MGS games out of the water. The exploration takes the freedom of Assassin's Creed, adds the staggered path branches of Metroidvania games, and when combined with the first two elements AND an amazing story, you have the best action adventure game in recent memory.
I haven't played either of these games (I know I know), but I really like your take on this. In my thinking, the "gameyness" of all of these features comes down to two things: the artificiality or contrived nature of them--which you addressed quite well--and the presentation of them.
Is there an actual on-screen combo counter? Well, that's not very subtle. How obviously is the game leading you towards a certain style of fighting? That can get heavy handed.
When thinking about the enemies, it seems to me that it might not be too contrived having the variety of them. Forcing you to think about all these different factors simultaneously is the same as forcing you to think like the Batman, and that's about as immersive as can be.
Is there an actual on-screen combo counter? Well, that's not very subtle. How obviously is the game leading you towards a certain style of fighting? That can get heavy handed.
When thinking about the enemies, it seems to me that it might not be too contrived having the variety of them. Forcing you to think about all these different factors simultaneously is the same as forcing you to think like the Batman, and that's about as immersive as can be.
Great write-up. I'm playing though B:AC right now and it really is great.
I only wish that I could predator more of the fights - not because I dislike the fighting, but because terrorizing a group of armed thugs from the shadows is Batman-as-a-motherfucker.
The Mr. Freeze bossfight should be compulsory homework for developers everywhere - enough with 'shoot it till it dies' boss encounters. The Freeze fight is tense and exciting, and really represents the characters at their finest. It also shows the player important gameplay information in a way that doesn't feel like you're being led by the nose or told how to play.
I only wish that I could predator more of the fights - not because I dislike the fighting, but because terrorizing a group of armed thugs from the shadows is Batman-as-a-motherfucker.
The Mr. Freeze bossfight should be compulsory homework for developers everywhere - enough with 'shoot it till it dies' boss encounters. The Freeze fight is tense and exciting, and really represents the characters at their finest. It also shows the player important gameplay information in a way that doesn't feel like you're being led by the nose or told how to play.
Xander Yeah I bag on Assassin's Creed for it, but to the series credit they improved as time went on. I guess you could chalk it up to early growing pains for the IP. Hope you have fun with Arkham!
Garethxxgod Man, if a game manages to get ME to do a collection quest you know it has to be good! Really I just liked the Riddler's smarmy dialogue and wanted more, the hostages were totally incidental :p.
Andy Asylum took me by surprise so bad. I played the demo in a bad mood and instantly hated it. I had to wait and see a bunch of recommendations for it from fellow Dtoiders before I gave it a shot. Ate a lot of humble pie when I finally did!
Elsa You are absolutely right. Assassin's Creed isn't my favourite series, but they did iron out some of the most annoying things about the first game for the sequels. Now if they could just hurry up and finish the series without any more side stories...
CelicaCrazed Awesome! Asylum was a fantastic game too, there are some parts about it I liked more than City. I highly recommend you pick up City if you see it on for a good sale once you get done Asylum you will be wanting more!
Stevil Oh man you are right! How did I write so much stuff and forget about the boss fights!? Well this thing was probably long enough, but yes, I agree 100%. The fight with Mr. Freeze was easily one of the best boss encounters I've ever had and managed to PERFECTLY blend "gameyness" with the narrative in a believable way.
Funktastic But if I self topsauce, won't I go blind? (Spoiler: I did topsauce myself and I did in fact blame you. Am I fired from recaps now?)
Arttemis I've said "gamey" so many times now the word has lost all meaning! Wait, it never had much meaning...
I was shocked they managed to blend so many things together so well. Usually you can either have a good action game or a good stealth game Arkham delivers both and a bunch more.
Knutaf You should give them a try! I don't know how into comics you are, but if you have even a slight interest in Batman there is more than enough game in Arkham City to make it worth your while.
Yes, the game elements become fairly transparent in some places. There is in fact a combo-counter on the screen that not only counts, but changes colour and begins to pulse as you attain different progressive levels of power and utility. Very gamey. But it works!
There are also a lot of "Batman moments" in the game. As you suspect, the combination of stealth and dealing with a variety of enemy types gives you reason and opportunity to plan out your attack in advance and do some very Batman stuff. The game is shockingly good!
Stahlbrand The predator rooms are the best aren't they? Freaking love that they found a way to make stealth really empowering and badass. Most of the time stealth missions are an exercise in paitence and exploiting weak AI. In Arkham they are all about hanging crooks off gargoyles and ledges AS THEY OUGHT TO BE.
Mr. Freeze was amazing, I wish more games showed that kind of imagination in designing their boss fights.
Garethxxgod Man, if a game manages to get ME to do a collection quest you know it has to be good! Really I just liked the Riddler's smarmy dialogue and wanted more, the hostages were totally incidental :p.
Andy Asylum took me by surprise so bad. I played the demo in a bad mood and instantly hated it. I had to wait and see a bunch of recommendations for it from fellow Dtoiders before I gave it a shot. Ate a lot of humble pie when I finally did!
Elsa You are absolutely right. Assassin's Creed isn't my favourite series, but they did iron out some of the most annoying things about the first game for the sequels. Now if they could just hurry up and finish the series without any more side stories...
CelicaCrazed Awesome! Asylum was a fantastic game too, there are some parts about it I liked more than City. I highly recommend you pick up City if you see it on for a good sale once you get done Asylum you will be wanting more!
Stevil Oh man you are right! How did I write so much stuff and forget about the boss fights!? Well this thing was probably long enough, but yes, I agree 100%. The fight with Mr. Freeze was easily one of the best boss encounters I've ever had and managed to PERFECTLY blend "gameyness" with the narrative in a believable way.
Funktastic But if I self topsauce, won't I go blind? (Spoiler: I did topsauce myself and I did in fact blame you. Am I fired from recaps now?)
Arttemis I've said "gamey" so many times now the word has lost all meaning! Wait, it never had much meaning...
I was shocked they managed to blend so many things together so well. Usually you can either have a good action game or a good stealth game Arkham delivers both and a bunch more.
Knutaf You should give them a try! I don't know how into comics you are, but if you have even a slight interest in Batman there is more than enough game in Arkham City to make it worth your while.
Yes, the game elements become fairly transparent in some places. There is in fact a combo-counter on the screen that not only counts, but changes colour and begins to pulse as you attain different progressive levels of power and utility. Very gamey. But it works!
There are also a lot of "Batman moments" in the game. As you suspect, the combination of stealth and dealing with a variety of enemy types gives you reason and opportunity to plan out your attack in advance and do some very Batman stuff. The game is shockingly good!
Stahlbrand The predator rooms are the best aren't they? Freaking love that they found a way to make stealth really empowering and badass. Most of the time stealth missions are an exercise in paitence and exploiting weak AI. In Arkham they are all about hanging crooks off gargoyles and ledges AS THEY OUGHT TO BE.
Mr. Freeze was amazing, I wish more games showed that kind of imagination in designing their boss fights.
I kind of disagree.
One of my biggest hang-ups with Arkham City - aside from the piss-poor story set-up - was how unfocused the entire experience was. I'm trying to take down the Penguin and Zszaz needs attention again. Or a hostage. Or Deadshot.
Its all thrown in your face constantly and ignoring some of these things as they come up would be the antithesis of who Batman is. A wouldn't just leave hostages hanging or let a serial killer linger out there with potential victims on the line.
It doesn't help that Paul Dini is too into his own shit to realize he downgrades some of the best Bat-villains to second-strigers where the Joker is concerned. Its like Chuck Dixon, Grant Morrison and the work of countless others just don't exist to him.
Don't even get me started on the horrendous art direction. Scarecrow was really the only good outcome of any of it.
I liked AC much more. Focused adventure, felt like a proper Batman story. Batman in the open world sounds nice on paper but it just doesn't work in execution.
One of my biggest hang-ups with Arkham City - aside from the piss-poor story set-up - was how unfocused the entire experience was. I'm trying to take down the Penguin and Zszaz needs attention again. Or a hostage. Or Deadshot.
Its all thrown in your face constantly and ignoring some of these things as they come up would be the antithesis of who Batman is. A wouldn't just leave hostages hanging or let a serial killer linger out there with potential victims on the line.
It doesn't help that Paul Dini is too into his own shit to realize he downgrades some of the best Bat-villains to second-strigers where the Joker is concerned. Its like Chuck Dixon, Grant Morrison and the work of countless others just don't exist to him.
Don't even get me started on the horrendous art direction. Scarecrow was really the only good outcome of any of it.
I liked AC much more. Focused adventure, felt like a proper Batman story. Batman in the open world sounds nice on paper but it just doesn't work in execution.
The Silent Protagonist Really? I thought it was one of the most "Batman" things about the game. I mean, this is a really bad night for Batman. A madman knows his secret identity, he has been tossed into an open air prison without proper equipment, he's been poisoned, and everyone from Zazz to the Riddler to the Joker is putting a scheme into motion that he has to stop. But does Batman lose his cool? Nope. He calmly takes it one step at a time, working multiple cases at once. Two of my favourite parts of Asylum are when he preemptively sets a explosive trap for Killer Croc and when you find out he has only been humouring the Riddler's challenge to run a tap on his phone and send the cops his way. It shows how he is always thinking two or three steps ahead. I think it works very well to have him chasing multiple threats at once.
Although I do agree that the pacing is bad. The main quest is so pressure intense and streamlined that it is very easy to miss all those cool side missions the first time. I only really started appreciating the game on NG+. As for Dini being into his own shit meh. I think the story was well done and the characters handled in a way that was respectful to their histories. But to each their own.
Although I do agree that the pacing is bad. The main quest is so pressure intense and streamlined that it is very easy to miss all those cool side missions the first time. I only really started appreciating the game on NG+. As for Dini being into his own shit meh. I think the story was well done and the characters handled in a way that was respectful to their histories. But to each their own.

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