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An open dialogue to Shigeru Miyamoto and gamers in regards to Wii Music.
Vanor | 11:21 AM on 10.16.2009 26 comments


I'd like to ask Mr. Miyamoto, and Mr. Iwata, and everybody in the video gaming community--everyone from the Hardcore, to the Core, to the Expanded Market, and everybody in-between--a few questions.

First off, what business is the video games industry in? The answer is the entertainment business. Now, having answered that question, there's a few others I need to ask, to Mr. Miyamoto and gamers at large:

--If I tried to sell you a comic, with no illustrations inside of it, would you buy it?

--If I tried to sell you a novel without words, would you purchase it?

--If I tried to sell you a movie on a blank DVD, would you buy that?

So Mr. Miyamoto, what makes you think myself and the rest of the gaming community is gonna buy into Wii Music when we rejected it the first time?

Mr. Miyamoto, you and Nintendo and the rest of the game industry are in the entertainment business. That means you are in the content business. Wii music and other games like it, the so-called "User-Generated-Content" games, do not sell for the simple fact that they feature no content. Now let me ask another question to add on to the list I have just made:

--If I tried to sell you a game with no content, would you purchase that?

Mr. Miyamoto, when you pitch us Wii Music, you are asking us to pay you money to do your job for you. That's the same thing with all user-generated-content games. They don't sell because "gamers don't understand it," they don't sell because developers are asking us to do the most important part of making a game for them: Putting in content. You are asking us to pay you money, to do your job for you. I would just like to reiterate that, so that it would sink in and resonate.

Mr. Miyamoto, if myself and gamers at large wanted to do your job for you, we wouldn't be tinkering with Wii Music; we would be busy coding our own games. You are in the entertainment business, Mr. Miyamoto, and I only keep repeating this because it seems that you yourself and Nintendo don't seem to fully understand that notion. If I were in the entertainment business and tried to sell something to the masses that was completely devoid of entertainment value, I would go out of business, and rightfully so. So why is it so hard to accept that your game, which was devoid of entertainment value, flopped?

As for any gamers that are reading: This is why Nintendo's sales have slowed down, and why they had a price drop: Nintendo has been complacent, and instead of churning out games with content, they've been wasting their time with science experiments and pet projects, when they should have been putting out games with content to keep their console's momentum going. Their foray into UGC has taken the wind out of the console's momentum diminished their market value as a company in the entertainment business.

The most valid criticisms of Nintendo are that they have been slacking in game development (and I mean actual games, not UGC), and that they have been ceaselessly rehashing their old games to the point that they've lost their value to the gaming community at large. And instead of revisiting older franchises that have been neglected in recent years, or trying to create new IPs with actual content, they instead try to market unfinished games with no entertainment value as "the next big thing" for gaming. To quote my grandmother: "Bullshit!"

The facts tell us otherwise: Every attempt at user-generated-content in gaming has failed to sell in any significant manner, and always well below expectations. Don't cite sales of Wii Music in regards to the product's "success." Nintendo only gauges their software as a success if it helps sell their consoles. Wii Music did not sell consoles. And games like Smash Bros. Brawl that feature level editors don't count as UGC. Those games had actual content in them, with the UGC added in as an extra; it wasn't sold as the entire game. UGC games have always backfired, and cold hard reality routinely proves this to us: Spore, Little Big Planet, Wii Music, and many others asks the customer to bear the burden of content creation, whereas that is the developer's job--the developer's job to entertain.

If I tried to pitch a film in the movie industry with no script or storyboards, I'd get laughed out of every meeting I pitched. If I tried to publish a novel of blank text, nobody is gonna buy it. If I sold a comic full of blank pages, and told you to just imagine all the awesome stuff that could be happening on the pages, you'd throw the damn comic in my face and walk off--as you rightfully should.

What makes Mr. Miyamoto think he's somehow above the laws of supply and demand? What makes the entire game industry think that they are above the laws of supply and demand? There is no demand for games that are not finished, games without content. As horrible as Superman 64 and Mission Impossible were, those games still had content, which puts them well above Wii Sports and any other attempts at UGC, seeing as they are actual games and not unfinished pieces of software lacking any sort of redeeming entertainment value.

The reason I am posting this, is because Nintendo's business strategy stated that they were fighting against disinterest in gaming. That there was their entire motivation behind the DS and the Wii. So if their mission statement is to fight disinterest in gaming, why do they continue to dabble with UGC. Fighting disinterest in gaming means putting out games with content. Wii Fit, as much as people bash on it, is a game with content, that connects to the user in a meaningful way. It has a job to do and it fulfills the task that the customer asks of it. And it does a hell of a lot more than Wii Music.

Nintendo: You have no real competition right now thanks to your business strategy, but your success has made you complacent. With economic turmoil looming on the horizon, you do not have the luxury to indulge in science experiments and pet projects. Your mandate is entertainment, and entertainment means content. Mr. Iwata, reign in Mr. Miyamoto. He makes great games, but he's also human and like all humans, he makes mistakes. His obsession with UGC is a mistake that is going to bite your company in the ass just as surely as the high cost of entry of the 360 and PS3 have bit Microsoft and Sony in the ass. In fact, seeing as your console has recently seen a decline in market value, it already has. Start making games with content, start revisiting older IPs, and start investing in new IPs with content, not pet projects that serve only to entertain the developer's own fancy. And remember:

Film-goers do not go to the movies to stare at a blank screen.

Anyways, I've written this to spur discussion about UGC and Miyamoto's pigheadedness in regards to it. So send it to anyone that might be interested, discuss it, and maybe someone at Nintendo will get a clue, and remind Miyamoto that he is not in the entertainment business to entertain himself, but all of us.[/size][size=12]



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24 comments | showing # 1 to 24
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Malachi Constant's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 12:01
Malachi Constant
Nintendo's response: If I can make millions off of a blank book, why shouldn't I publish it?

This is a cute rant. You seem to believe Nintendo should care about content and quality when they can sell millions of copies of a game with no content anyway. And yes, they do, in fact, sell millions of copies. S'long as they make a commercial that appeals to a common housewife, they can sell as many as they want of whatever they want.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 12:09
Tubatic
Do you have to be structurally punished to enjoy success?

If your music sounds bad, wouldn't that be losing?
Tony Ponce's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 12:40
Tony Ponce
At first I thought you were just a Sean Malstrom mouthpiece. Then I read on I found out you are stoned out of your gourd.
Vanor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 12:41
Vanor
@ Malachi: I already stated why they need to stop dabbling in UGC: The Wii's momentum and market value has diminished because of it. If they had not screwed up with UGC and went for putting out games with actual content, they would not have had to have a price drop. As in, they could have still been selling the Wii for 250 dollars in the US while the PS3 and 360 both lowered their market value and took a further loss to their coffers. That's 50 more dollars that Nintendo won't be getting from further purchases of the Wii. So yes, their interest in UGC at the expense of actual games with content has now cost the company revenue in the long run, and quite dearly.

This isn't about making bad games inasmuch as it's about making games that nobody wants. Like I said, Wii Music did not move consoles. Wii Music failed to give momentum to the Wii. And instead of admitting that Wii Music flopped because nobody likes UGC, he has the gall to imply that it failed because "nobody understood it." This is not a rant, I am legitimately asking gamers and Nintendo what the value is in games with no content.
Vanor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 12:47
Vanor
@Stryke: What's wrong with me educating myself on the game industry, and attempting to educate others on it. Nintendo thought that UGC was The Next Big Thing, and it has now cost the Wii its market value, and gamers have been deprived of games from Nintendo because their resources have been wasted on games that have no content.

Like I said: Would you buy a comic with no illustrations? Would you buy a car that wasn't finished for full-price and had to finish it up on your own? *Miyamoto is asking us to pay him to do his job for him.* I don't think there is anything wrong with me asking why he thinks I should give him my money so that he can sit back and not do his job as a game developer and entertainer.
Tascar's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 13:00
Tascar
I read a few words, saw the Sean Malstrom buzzwords, and sighed.
Vanor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 13:15
Vanor
And your point being?
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 13:34
Tubatic
Oooh oooh, I want a snappy reasoned comeback to my comment! Do me next!!!

PLEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE!?!
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 13:38
Tubatic
oops.

Also, welcome to Destructoid. This whole rage-coach you're riding has been drivin by at least one different person for tahe past few weeks.

Do you have anything else to discuss, that's maybe more unique?

Just wondering.

Love ya, meng.
Tascar's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 13:49
Tascar
I'm not sure how much I should go into this because it is pretty much the subject of a cblog I have been working on. But anyhow, here's what it goes down to. I find it difficult to take anything Sean Malstrom says seriously because first, I simply don't think he has a true understanding of video games, the video game customer base, or the industry. Second, he views everything through the lens of either fad business strategies such as Blue Ocean Strategy or completely obvious business concepts such as Disruption which very often make his ideas and interpretations completely wrong.

Let's just go into the example you listed: Wii Music and the whole user generated content thing that Sean Malstrom rails against constantly. Wii Music's failure has little to nothing to do with user generated content. Hell, I never even thought of Wii Music as a game with user-generated content as much as I saw it as a poor man's Muppet Babies Rock Band without the Muppet Babies. Wii Music's failure has to do with the fact that it simply is a bad game that simply does not appeal to any market.

You and Sean Malstrom constantly bash user generated content, but you ignore the fact that The Sims games on the PC, which are enormously oriented around user generated content, are ridiculously popular sellers. I'd argue that The Sims games do a great job of encouraging user generated content, providing people with the support and tools to do user generated content, and the fact that the game is on a PC, which pretty much everyone has (as opposed to a Ps3) parted a large part in that.

In contrast, LBP (which I know many attribute its failure to being oriented around user generated content) is arguably less accessible to people, partly due to the fact that it is arguably harder to create good LBP content than The Sims houses. Likewise, I'd argue that from the point of view of a passive gamers of LBP, it's hard to easily find good content in LBP as opposed to say YouTube, the price of a Ps3 was a large hurdle, and the marketing for the game was in my opinion pretty bad in selling the concept of the game.

See, it's funny that you keep railing on Miyamoto for his "pigheadedness" and the fact that is he "entertain himself" rather than the rest of us. But that is precisely how Miyamoto has always worked at Nintendo. Hell, the Wii pretty much emerged from Miyamoto's thinking about what would interest him. This is why I have so little respect for the views of Sean Malstrom, because he blinds himself with the business fads he obsesses over. Miyamoto doesn't know what disruption or blue ocean is. The Wii didn't emerge from the blue ocean theory that Sean Malstrom keeps trying to analyze the Wii with. That's why, especially with respect to user generated content (as well as many other topics), I feel that he simply doesn't get it, because he sees user generated content and stops there without going further in his thought.
Tascar's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 13:52
Tascar
Incidentally, a quick note: I'd argue that an enormous part of MMOs like World of Warcraft is user-generated content and last I checked, Activision-Blizzard is starting construction on a money bin to rival Scrooge McDuck's.
Vanor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 13:52
Vanor
So, uh, let me get this straight...When Trent Reznor observes that the Games Industry is run by the same kind of people that have driven the Music Industry into the ground, you all have a nice reasonable discussion about the implications that might have for the indus--

Wait, no you didn't. No one did. Because of how it was presented on this site, his words were taken out of context and any discussion of his observations of the game industry was completely glossed over in lieu of the obvious willfully-ignorant talking points that I've come to expect from most gaming enthusiasts on the internet, where nothing is learned or understood.

Actually you guys coming in here and making your cute remarks are the ones that need to have something more interesting to discuss, because from where I'm sitting, I'm one of the (very) few people trying to add something to the discussions on here beyond "lol <willfully ignorant comment here>".

So basically all of you are telling me that I should just bury my head in the stand, put my fingers in my ears and go "la la la" because what I say somehow offends you even though I've gone out of my way to be respectful to others, even taken the time to respond to what you say (in the least offensive manner possible) and yet you all still think it's perfectly fine to come on here and trivialize what I say with the same old talking points and unsubstantiated rhetoric.

I've made an effort to understand gaming from the business side, and how that has impacted the industry, and the console makers, and now I'm trying to apply what I know to better understand myself and the world around me, how things work in the world and how that effects me. Maybe you're the ones that need to find other things to discuss beyond <uneducated rhetoric here>.
Vanor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 14:04
Vanor
Okay, so I'm actually getting an honest-to-god response:

World of Warcraft is not UGC. I know because I've played it. It's a game with boring-but accessible-gameplay that sells because Blizzard constantly adds new stuff to the game. I don't need to read Malstrom's blog to understand that. I fucking figured that out on my own when I asked myself why I hated WoW yet loved Monster Hunter even though Monster Hunter wasn't (at the time) an MMO.

When the main attraction of your game is to play other people's levels and content not made by the original developers, that's UGC. To me the Sims could be summed up with: "Human Tamogachis." That's not UGC, that's essentially you taking care of your "pet" human.

I just have to ask, why are you so uppity over me speaking about the things that I've learned from Malstrom's site, when it would seem to me that current events has pretty much vindicated everything he has said. All the companies asking the Feds for a bailout have in fact been disrupted by other companies. Nintendo kept citing Blue Ocean Strategy well before they unveiled the Nintendo, and their strategy paid off, and continues to pay off (despite themselves).

So although I appear to be one of the few who mentions this stuff, and trying to present a perspective that no one else bothers to give, I'm met with trite remarks, despite trying to present it in an adult, reasonable manner.
ChronosWing's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 14:05
ChronosWing
lol <willfully ignorant comment here>
Vanor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 14:19
Vanor
Ya know, I wasn't writing the article about gamers, or to insult anyone, only asking why Miyamoto thinks he can waste company resources on crap nobody wants, won't sell, and won't have any longterm benefit to Nintendo. Does he get a free pass to do whatever he wants just because he made Mario Bros.?

Game developers are deified it would seem, when they're just average Joes, just like you or me. They have a job to do, and that's entertain. Miyamoto is "entertaining" himself at the expense of Nintendo's financial well-being. Let Miyamoto risk his own assets on his experiments and let Nintendo focus on getting more fresh IPs out into the market, or like I said, revisiting older ones.
Vanor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 14:56
Vanor
Look, all I'm asking, is why it is that Miyamoto wants to make UGC games, when his last game was a flop (by Nintendo's standards of success), and when you can look at other examples of UGC games that failed to fuel momentum for their respective consoles, why does he continue to try when it's obvious that's not what the majority of customers wants, especially Wii customers?

The first time was alright since it was an "experiment", a chance to try something new, but the experiment failed. Miyamoto continuing to rally for something that does not appeal to a majority of Wii owners runs anathema to Nintendo's current business strategy, which is to fight disinterest in gaming and make new customers. Neither of which they are going to accomplish with games like Wii Music.
Anonymouse's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 15:03
Anonymouse
Oh, I'd love to argue with you, but Tascar said it all.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 15:41
Tubatic
@Krow

indeed.

STFUAJPG.
Mike Moran's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/16/2009 15:49
Mike Moran
Such a long winded rant is already founded on the faulty basis that nobody wants Wii Music. It's an assumption, and the entire reason why most people don't want to listen to you. You're bearing the flag and telling everyone what's enjoyable and what's not, and telling them what has worth and what's not.

No foundation, nobody wants to listen. I applauded Miyamoto for Wii Music in my monthly musing. I think I gave a good reason.
snoogans775's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 01:21
snoogans775
I fapped this. It sounded intelligent, y'know, it had big words. I'm so ashamed. I should never fap this late in the day.
Vanor's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/17/2009 09:28
Vanor
Thanks for anybody on here that contributed something other than the tired talking points, I sincerely appreciate it.

The reason I'm bringing this up though is because I think it's obvious that Miyamoto's (and Nintendo's) pursuit of UGC is what has crippled the release of quality first-party games in the last year or two. I want more games, and not merely rehashes of the same thing, but new IPs. Wii Sports and Wii Play (and I"m sure Wii Sports Resort) all sold because they were new IPs that showed what we thought was going to be the direction of Nintendo went in with Motion Controls. Third parties are sitting on their laurels with the Wii (either not making games, or not bothering to make quality games), so it's up to Nintendo to pick up the slack. But they're resting on their laurels, too, thinking that someone like me, who just wants to pick up the damn game and play, would be just thrilled to finish the game development for them with UGC.

I don't think anybody harps on this enough, which is why I keep bringing it up. Sure, people might say "oh yeah Wii Music was bad," but they don't actually go into *why* it was bad. Hence why I wrote this, because as a customer of Nintendo's, I am concerned that their pursuit of UGC is for their own gratification and not the gratification of their customers.
TrickEdge's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/21/2009 01:03
TrickEdge
Personally I love games that offer tools to create your own levels, then again I am in college right now for 3D Animation + Game Design so I am not sure if that interest has anything to do with it lol. Even then though, once I complete the main game or want to take a break from the multiplayer mode, I like being able to customize stuff or create stuff to play. While LittleBigPlanet offers up the ability to make your own levels, they do have lots that are already premade in the game, so I usually just go back and forth between them. AFAIK LBP was recieved rather well was it not? I don't have sales figures with me or nothin' so I could be completely wrong.

I'd like it if more games included some form of UGC modes, but at the same time that doesn't mean I want the game to contain nothing already made. Like I said, UGC stuff is more of that other thing I do in games when I am feeling a little creative. I'm sure there are many others that do the same as me heh.

As for Wii Music, now that is a game that doesn't appear to have the substance of LBP for example. I haven't tried it myself, seeing as I don't have a Wii, but it looks pretty bad. It just isn't my cup of tea, but I'm sure there are lots of people who still enjoyed it regardless.
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