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About

-Super Meat Boy regarding Super Meat Boy

Hey. Follow me on Twitter! I'll tweet about games! Promise!
Twitter - TubaticPrime

Highlights from my blog include:

-2010 Sucked: Fable III Exemplifies the Year in Disappointement*Promoted Blog
-Keep It Complicated, Stupid
-What Wii Gaming is Like for Me*Promoted Blog
-I, The Author: How I Stole the Declaration of Independance*Promoted blog



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Way of The Samurai, Shadow of the Colossus, Castle Crashers, Jet Grind Radio, ICO, Super DodgeBall, Canabalt, FTL, Final Fantasy VI and X-Com are some of the finest games ever made in ever

Xbox Live: Tubatic
PSN: Tubatic
Wii Console Code: 3554-2775-5012-0810
Tatsunoko Vs Capcom Code: 2107-0561-3043
Brawl Friend Code: 1762-2359-5359 "Tbatc"

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Players can elect to summon "cartoony" versions of bats, bombs, guns, and flamethrowers. These types of items can be used to destroy objects or even other summoned items (e.g., a club can be used to hit an animal; steak can be attached to a baby to attract lions; rockets can be lobbed at a man).

-From the ESRB description of Scribblenauts

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"Right after getting back to Japan, [Miyamoto] suddenly said: "You know we're including golf now." Apparently he'd stated in an interview that this time round golf shots would be determined by the backswing, even though at that time a golf game didn't exist in any shape or form!"

-A Nintendo Staffer explaining why Golf was added to Wii Sports Resort

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"I have seen the Summa that everyone talks about. And I want to pour gasoline on him and cut off his ear. "

-Pendleton21 after listening to the disavowed Podtoid 94: So Baller

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"question, did you play with controller or keyboard?

because controller is unplayable"
-Luc Bernard re: the first release version of Eternity's Child on Steam

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"Just because u like a game doesn't mean u have to give it a high score"
-excerpt from the epic trolling on the Prototype review, inFamous/Protoype Wars, June 2009

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For the past few weeks, Jim Sterling has taken on the Xbox Live Summer of Arcade entry for the week, and each has come in disappointing in his opinion. This has come as a surprise, as many of the games show an overwhelming amount of promise and skill in some area. Bastion with its unique approach to narrative, From Dust with it's manipulation of physical elements and Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet with it's gorgeous artstyle: these little download games are presenting players with some of the absolutely highest quality components that are sorely lacking in some games that are made by teams of people for many hundreds of thousands of dollars. At any sectional slice, you would be forgiven for thinking you're having a go at a highly crafted work of AAA gamecraft.

But as Jim sums up, something has mackered the final project into palpable dissatisfaction. For all of Bastion's narrative prowess, a shallowness was evident and unpalatable for Sterling. As deft and lush as the element manipulation and physics may be, the game turns out to have little in the way of god-game depth. Even the down right beautiful ITSP tops off as a merely adequate rum through a not very developed tunnel of straight forward adventure gameplay. All amazing and promising games, all suffering from a similar malady: a general lack of full-on depth and substance. It's to be expected that not every game will be awesome. But, how is it that these three games in particular are weighing in as ornate jugs half full of delicious libation?



An easy solution would be to blame Jim Sterling for being tired of his work or some other ridiculous accusation. He's an easy target, because he's so fat. Fat with the presence he maintains on Destructoid, not only as a reviewer, but as a regular news and feature writer on the site. Couple that with the love these games are getting from several other outlets, and one might think he's just having a sad faced go at Microsoft's summer push. However, a look at those other outlets will reveal that the flaws Jim points out are echoed, but overall downplayed. They are there, but discounted in favor of praise and the will to endure the faults to enjoy these games.

So look then to the developers. What's creating this viscious strain of substandard games wrapped in wondrous coating? Theories are numerous, but I think the realities of these games' creation and existence are the ultimate culprit: a small scope game can excel in brilliant ideas, but its in danger of simply not having the key resources (time, people, money to sustain the project) to create the well tempered game that satisfies that deep gamer-thirst for long-lasting game sustenance. This is going to be the defining trait of this era of indie gamecraft at the dawn of digital distribution platforms and services: great ideas, truncated scope.



Greg Kasavin of Bastion's SuperGiantGames, has said that his studio simply wouldn't exist if not for digital distribution slashing the cost of delivering a game to the masses. They can't afford to put Bastion in a box and put it on store shelves. However, Bastion exists in a world where the game can be downloaded to a gameplayer. Similarly, I'm sure, From Dust as it exists today would never be a big enough idea or experience for Ubisoft to greenlight mass production, let alone greenlight the resources for developing the idea from the basic game it is now into a boxed product. These ideas and games thrive off of their smaller scope and are meeting with success and life outside of their creator's minds. This is great.

What isn't great is the loss of well developed, deeply explored games. The digital indie space thrives on the short experience. Indie game ideas bloom at the lower $0.99 to $15.99 price range, but you're not going to find the exhaustive and awe inspiring depth of SimCity, The Sims or Civ. A proper edition of those franchises, mind you: their iOS counterparts lack the depth and gusto of their originals without much room for argument.



Not to say depth can't be achieved in the indie space. Super Meat Boy is a thorough and shining study in pure run and jump. And even now, Jim is working on a review for E.Y.E, an apparently super detailed mash of an indie title built on top of the Source Engine. Hack anything, play how you want, and experience a world of details. Glaring issues aside, it sounds like its providing him with some level of real joy and contentment. But this depth is the exception in the digital indie space.

I've gone on about this whole thing about depth before, but its an item that rarely comes up as a solid point in the "Casual/Hardcore" or "Indie/Corporate" argument space. What do you think Destructoid? Are we losing depth in our games in this digital indie age? What sort of deep and detailed experiences are you finding on digital platforms? Or am I just barking up a dead horse? What's your take on this?
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I definitely agree with you and jim both on the fact that games are becoming too shallow. I won't name any names, but even companies known for producing things that are extraordinarily deep have been putting out games that are almost paper thin. A lot of devs seem to like finding a gimmick and going with it, especially on the arcade titles. It's a real bummer for someone like me who plays something and instantly sees all these different ways it could have been much better if the devs would have spent a little more time with it. If Jim plays games with that kind of mindset, I certainly can't blame him for being disappointed with some of the current selections.
I don't think we're losing depth. Just that with all the media coverage the flaws in a game are more likely to be exposed, and the sheer size of the industry today means we have that many more complete experiences to compare these games to. What was acceptable 20, 10, or even 5 years ago isn't anymore...

... unless it's from Japan of course.
Anthony's sort of brought this up before. Don't give indie games any slack. If you're going ask me to spend $15 on your game, I don't care how creative an idea, it better be good. If it doesn't have enough depth to justify $15, charge less for it.

I had this problem with 'Splosion Man. Besides the fact that the game was nowhere near as funny as it thought it was, the final section of the game was just rehashed ideas from the first two. You can't do that for more than a third of the main game. They could have cut that part in half and the game would have been better for it.

But I'm getting off topic. I don't think indie games are losing depth (at least right now), but I do think (judging by some of the comments in Jim's reviews) that some people are deliberately being too soft in their criticism.
I agree, these games are hard to review. Do you base them on how well they pulled of everything or do you review them on how much you enjoyed them. The thing about indie games is that it's hard to get an honest review. Often times a story of underdogs is attached to the game, and the studios future depends on this title. It's not easy to say you dislike it, a negative review can cost them some very important sales. It's okay to say you didn't like Red Dead Redemption (which was an amazing game), but if you disliked Limbo you're a plaque on humanity and are considered to be setting gaming back ten years. I like indie games alot actually, I just wish people didn't pretend like they're exempt from criticism because it was developed and published by one to five people.
I disagree whole heartedly. We are losing depth in all games. In fact, there are games like Nier that try to provide ample activity to flesh out the world only to get punished for this option because people would rather complain about a side quest than move forward with the main storyline.

Digital Distribution means nothing. Final Fantasy XIII has no depth. Mass Effect 2 has very little depth.

I'm a huge indie guy and I will support them, but they are examples because they are little. It's easy to pick on the little guy. However, games in general have been following this trend. It's only when you get grand examples that you see where they fall.

Shoot 1 Up is a deep indie game. So is BoDVII and Super Meat Boy. It can be done. The industry however is slipping from the restrictions of years past. These more open platforms are giving people freedom and they are squandering it by putting focus in the inane.
Wonderful blog and very insightful!
(and also... what Sissors said!)
I agree but I think we need to evaluate games on a case by case basis. Like you said, Super Meat Boy certainly doesn't lack depth and neither does Braid. As for non-indie titles, the new Mortal Kombat game comes to mind as a good example of a new game with depth. So I don't think it's fair to say "indie games lack depth" or "non indie games lack depth" or even "all games lack depth." The only fair argument to make in my opinion is "Some games lack depth, and services like the AppStore and XBLA seem to encourage that."
i think it's a good thing to talk about, even if it's been discussed before.

Some games are definitely lacking depth, the ones you mentioned that have been reviewed by Jim, are good examples. In fact, with those particular games, I think you could say too much effort was put into the way it looks as opposed to the content and quality of the gameplay. There's a lot of pressure for games being released on HD consoles to look a certain way, which takes up valuable resources (as you mentioned).

This makes me think of the indie music industry. Songs may lack that super-polished, crisp and clean sound a major record company would give it, but if the music is good it doesn't matter. And this is accepted, and welcomed by the public. The indie scene has never been bigger, and is in fact dismantling the record industry. They use the same outlets that video games use (digital distribution), and rely on word of mouth marketing as much as games do. If indie game developers have the same mentality and outlook on their product, I think we consumers would be seeing higher quality games.
I fucking love you and Jim, Tubatic. This article is full of truth.

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